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North Woods by Daniel Mason Discussion (includes spoilers)
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Thanks for nominating this, Ann. When I read it last spring, I enjoyed it a lot but struggled to describe it to people when I wanted to recommend it. I think you did a great job of capturing the unusual aspects of the book - I don't think I've ever read anything with a structure quite like it, but it didn't really bother me. It almost became a game to see if I could guess how each new chapter would tie to the house and its prior history.
I echo Lynn's gratitude for nominating this, Ann. I would never have thought to pick it up, otherwise. So thank you, thank you, thank you.What an amazing read! The best book I've read all year. I'm still gushing. I think the structure is so interesting and original. I loved how he dropped a seed in each vignette only to pick it up in a vignette further down the line.
I was gobsmacked by his incredible descriptions of nature. His language soared. And he had a great sense of humor. I laughed out loud in so many spots.
I was thrown for a loop the first time he introduced a ghost. He did it so smoothly. I had to read the section a couple of times before I realized we had stepped into the realm of magical realism.
And there was so much variety in terms of story lines, diction, and characters. I'm still trying to figure out how one individual can so brilliantly utilize such a variety of writing tools in his tool box.
You asked if he linked the segments together in a cohesive whole. My answer is a resounding yes!
You asked if there were any characters that were particularly touching. The two characters that touched me the most were Robert and William. But I thought all the characters were well-developed, unique, and fully-fleshed out. It was amazing how Mason was able to make them feel so authentic even in just a few pages.
Methinks that's enough gushing for a while.
I'm looking forward to reading this. I've been #1 on the library holds list for it for a long time.
I just finished reading this last night and am still gathering my thoughts. I've been a fan of Daniel Mason's writing since I read The Piano Tuner. I also loved The Winter Soldier but, of those two and this one, I think The Piano Tuner is still my favorite. As usual, the writing is simply beautiful. I am a fan of short stories and usually love connected ones. But, Mason lost me at various stages here. I was particularly engaged during the accounts of Charles Osgood and his daughters. I also loved the parts about the two men, artist and writer, who loved each other but who felt that they couldn't be with each other because of societal expectations. The descriptions of the natural world were lovely. So, I am trying to figure out what lost me. I think, perhaps, it was the songs and anything that didn't feel directly connected to the overall narrative although they were, in a more oblique way. That may be more my problem than the book's.Ann, thank for including the interview with Josephine Wong. That was so good. How did you find her age? Her questions, as Mason kept commenting, were excellent, better than many professional interviewers I've read. I also thought that Mason was very genuine with her, perhaps more than he might have been with a more experienced person.
Lyn, I hope you get the book soon. Those library hold lists can be so frustrating. It seems you will have to wait forever and then suddenly a bunch of books all arrive at the same time. In any case, these discussions are always open, so post whenever you are able.
Tamara, It is so fun to find another reader who agrees with you so enthusiastically about a book! Your post did a great job of describing what makes this book so special.
I agree with you that the characters were very finally drawn in a remarkably short space. I was especially touched by the story of Alice. In fact, I was reading it late at night and thought I couldn't bear it if her story ended badly. I started falling asleep, but I paged ahead on my Kindle to see the end.
Of course, her life ended in tragedy, but armed with that foreknowledge, I finished that segment the next day. For some reason, knowing ahead of time what happened to her, allowed me to somewhat distance myself emotionally from Alice . And, after all, I had to know how events culminated in that denouement.
Mason is indeed a very talented writer, to capture this reader, at least, so completely.
Lynn,I don't think I could describe this book to any of my local reading buddies and make them want to read it. This book is just too different for their tastes.
Knowing that I can find kindred readers here on Constant Reader is why I treasure this group so much. We don't always like the same things, but I think we share an interest in broadening our reading experiences.
Ann D wrote: "I was especially touched by the story of Alice. ."I was, too. But, believe it or not, I also felt for Mary even though she took her jealousy and possessiveness to extremes by murdering her sister.
I grew up with three sisters, all of whom were stunning beauties. I was the awkward one, the tomboy with messy hair and wobbly knees and goofy teeth. I know what it is like to feel marginalized because of one's looks. I know how much it hurts, especially when you're young.
Unlike Mary, I didn't murder my sisters :) Instead, I realized at an early age my looks aren't going to get me anywhere in life, so I started focusing on more important things, like school work and books. I became an avid reader, entered university when I was fifteen, and am the only female in my family to get a Ph.D. So all's well that ends well.
I'm not defending Mary. I'm just saying I felt for her. I wish I could have wrapped my arms around her when she was young and told her what I know now.
Barb,You introduced me to Daniel Mason with his book The Winter Soldier. Thank you! I love historical fiction when it is actually based on facts -unfortunately this is not often the case. I also appreciated Mason's great psychological insights in The Winter Soldier.
I found the interview with Josephine Wong by searching for interviews with Mason. It was in a publication called "The Oxford Review of Books." This is a student run publication at Oxford University in the UK. It is open to submissions globally. At the end of the article, it states that "JOSEPHINE WONG is surviving Woodside Priory High. She enjoys feeling marginally superior to incoming freshmen." I don't know where I came up with her exact age. Maybe I made it up. :(
I do agree with you about the music in the book. The lyrics of the ballad "Owl and the Squirrel" written by "a pair of GRAVE sisters for CHILDREN" are downright macabre. So is the ballad of "A December Ballad" by a pair of GRAVE maids." I could have done without them altogether.
I was also was bothered/annoyed/puzzled by the song lyrics written by the sisters (or their ghosts?) and generally just skipped over them. What do you think Mason's purpose was in including them?
I skipped over the lyric and song stuff, too. I really enjoyed the book as a whole though, even if I did have a bit of trouble keeping everyone straight. I didn’t realize this was the same guy that wrote A Winter Soldier. I really liked that, too.
I’m on a waiting list at the library. I tried listening to an audio version but the narration was too dramatic — I lost the words to the actors expressiveness. (I don’t think expressiveness is a word, but expression doesn’t seem to fit my meaning)
Joan, I was happy to hear that you will be joining us eventually. I think that the audio version would be extremely difficult to listen to, due to the many characters and their different literary voices.I did find this list of characters helpful, but did not find it until I had finished the book: https://www.bookcompanion.com/qe_nort...
I just finished this amazing book, having read it in two days. I found it totally absorbing and so cleverly written - heavy themes explored but often with a light touch and some very wry humor. I suppose my favorite character was Charles Osgood. I liked his single mindedness and unwillingness to be put off of what he saw as his mission. And of course, he appears again at the end.
I felt a lot of empathy for the character of Robert and his mother. I have seen the manifestations of schizophrenia and the difficulties with treatment. In the book we are left wondering if Robert was mentally ill or just more attuned to the ghostly presence of the past inhabitants.
As for the song lyrics, my first impulse was to skip them and get on with the narrative, but I’m glad I didn’t. We are being teased a little I think. The sister are witnesses from their graves with their song lyrics. I have to think Mary wrote most of those lyrics.
I just listened to the first 30mins of the audio on Spotify and was gripped, I'm ordering the book.
I think the lyrics and songs sort of work backwards. They seem unconnected when you first come across them, but they make sense later. It's as if Mason drops seeds which are later picked up. For example, the poem about the catamount came out of nowhere but then it is picked up when we read about Harlan Kane's mauled body. And I didn't pick up on the significance of the sisters' songs and the word "Grave" until later. Initially, I took the word "grave" to mean serious.I think this is the sort of book you have to read more than once to piece it all together. Mason has probably dropped clues/seeds throughout that I missed on first reading. Like Sheila, I ended up buying my own copy. I plan to re-read it as some point to see where he drops a seed and where down the line the seed comes to fruition.
I agree, Tamara. I plan to read it again to better pick up on the clues.
I thought that I should do a reread too. However, I have so many other books that I very much want to read that I doubt it will happen. I really appreciate these notes that are helping me fit things together.
Tamara,Thanks for explaining your feelings about Mary. She does deserve some sympathy. After all, she bore the weight of managing the business and was an indefatigable worker. It had to be difficult knowing that she would never measure up to her sibling in looks or personality.
I went to school with two identical twin boys. One was always a little better in academics and sports. I always thought that must have been challenging for the other twin.
Mary’s resentment, however, veered into severe mental illness. She seemed to consider that she and Alice were one person, in two different bodies. She, of course, was the one entitled to be in full control. I found it chilling that Mary gave her sister “a pair of identical painted silhouettes, facing each other, which she’d sat for by herself.” (p. 77, Kindle version)
When it looked like Alice was going to establish a connection with a man, Mary reacted with rage and trembling. She was scary, and Alice always backed down.
And then, of course, there was the little matter of the ax murders, first of Alice and later of the slave hunter. At least the last one was beneficial.
Regarding the ballads, Donna wrote "I have to think Mary wrote most of those lyrics." I found that idea comforting. I hated to think that the ghost Alice would have been responsible.Mason sets up the family interest in music early on when the father was still alive. Mary had the voice and Alice the fife. They made up their own songs.
Later, among her petty critiques of Alice's behavior, Mary says that there is no need for Alice to buy ballads because she could write her own.
I really liked this seemingly offhand comment in the text: "As for Alice, her grievances were less specific and less spoken of, for they included Mary ruining her life." (p.78, Kindle version)
I laughed out loud when I read this, but it was very poignant.
Good point about the lyrics making more sense if you reread them backwards. This is definitely a book that would be worth rereading.
Ann D wrote: "She seemed to consider that she and Alice were one person, in two different bodies. She, of course, was the one entitled to be in full control. I found it chilling that Mary gave her sister “a pair of identical painted silhouettes, facing each other, which she’d sat for by herself.”.."I think there was also a point where Mary looks in the mirror and she turns her heard or does something and she thinks she is looking at Alice in the mirror. But it's only for a split second. It's really sad because it shows just how desperate she is to merge with and/or become Alice.
Something just occurred to me which I'm sure most of you realized long before I did, but I wanted to share it.The characters behave in death the same way they did in life. The painter continues to paint landscapes; Mary, the killer, is the one who kills the slave hunter; and Alice, who has been gentle and kind and compassionate in life, is the one who welcomes Morris Lakeman when he dies on their property:
"Oh, you poor, dear man," said Alice Osgood, savoring the day, the sounds of the pigeons, the face pressed to her breast. "I think you fell. I do hope you aren't hurt."
I think this is so weird and interesting. I'm sure there are a ton of other connections to be made. This is a definite re-read.
Good observations, Tamara. I love all the connections, too - and I didn't get all of them on first read.What about those ghosts? Was anyone else confused by their first appearance? These weren't just ephemeral voices or apparitions - although they could also be that, especially to Robert and Mrs. Farnsworth.
I never expected Mary to rise from the dead to go after a living person with her axe. I guess that's why I just kept reading, wondering what had happened to the slave catcher. When much later in the book it became very apparent that Esther had survived, I went back to read the slave catcher section again. Then I finally understood that Mary and her axe had again been successful.
I thought that Alice enfolding Morris in her arms was a very nice touch.
Ann D wrote: "Good observations, Tamara. I love all the connections, too - and I didn't get all of them on first read.What about those ghosts? Was anyone else confused by their first appearance? These weren't ..."
Well, I need to go back and reread that section, too. I thought Esther found the hatch, the dead bodies of the twins and, of course, the axe. Thus, in my mind, Esther killed the slave catcher.
I guess I need to go back to that section too!
I finished this book last night, and there are so many comments already I think I want to respond in bits. So after the 1st 10 notes: Like Barb, this was not a 5 star read for me.I can't say I found it completely original, since on the first day of reading my thought was ah, this is a Cloud Atlas kind of thing... (Not a bad thing at all--That is one of my all time favorite books!)
What I think pulled it down a bit was some of the nature writing. Most specifically the bits that explain in detail the chestnut blight and the Dutch Elm moths. Obviously this is not my thing, lol, because I recall being a tiny bit bored or annoyed or something by this exact treatment in another book (title hasn't come to me yet-was it Cloud Cuckoo Land?) that described in detail the travels of a specific bug (in a crate of fabric or clothing? -HELP!) that created devastation or famine or whatever at its end spot.
And altho I do get how the songs and photos and almanac additions play into the scrapbook journal nature of the work, I was mostly "meh."
But with that, it isn't just any ol' book that gets 4 stars. This is a very good book!
Tamara said: Unlike Mary, I didn't murder my sisters :)
I hope the following notes say more, because the murder scene left me unsure if she murdered Alice with intent, or accidentally. She was out of her mind, furious and exhausted, and I couldn't tell if Alice made a mistake akin to trying to rescue a drowning person. Like, did Mary even see her, or did she just hear a noise, turn, and swing?
Off to read more notes...
It is hard to find the line where nature writing jumps the shark for me, because I should have mentioned I think, that I loved how the soldier cut and shared the apple and ate it, and the sprout was born for Osgood to discover.Donna said: I suppose my favorite character was Charles Osgood. I liked his single mindedness and unwillingness to be put off of what he saw as his mission. And of course, he appears again at the end.
Bingo! He is a wonderful character, and the obvious choice to bookend the saga. I loved his passion, wasn't he just created to appeal to a Constant Reader, with his myths and stories for the girls.
This is occupying my thoughts on the book, sort of? There were the characters who preceded the Osgoods--the Adam & Eve couple (and her second husband) and the Nightingale and her baby. And the 3 English soldiers. They were mentioned in the Succession chapter in that they left: She hears the stories of the ones who went before her, the lovers the captive, the soldiers, the mother and son. Who have returned to their people, or gone farther north to seek another hermitage. Others drift off slowly, to the sea, to haunt the places where they couldn't be together, to tour the country in their roadster, hunting for treasures behind locked gates. Osgood stays.
There seems to be a theme throughout about captivity, slavery (and escaping or avoiding captivity) and Osgood stays. Eh, I guess I'll reread that last chapter.
Donna said: I felt a lot of empathy for the character of Robert and his mother. I have seen the manifestations of schizophrenia and the difficulties with treatment. In the book we are left wondering if Robert was mentally ill or just more attuned to the ghostly presence of the past inhabitants.
Anyone who has dealt with schizophrenics for any amount of time will feel uneasy with the presentation of Robert. I was also empathetic to the character and horrified at the prospect of giving him a lobotomy, because we are asked to question if he is mentally ill, or just highly sensitive to ghostly manifestations. I will reread the doctor's notes, it just feels like Mason walked a fine line with this one. It is bold.
Tamara said: For example, the poem about the catamount came out of nowhere but then it is picked up when we read about Harlan Kane's mauled body.
The cover on my library book shows a catamount like the size of the sphinx, or even larger, dominating the whole of the countryside. I had to wonder why I am being haunted by catamounts! They have featured in 3 books I've read in the last year! I'm convinced they are the most intelligent, fierce, powerful, menacing wild animal ever--so before North Woods, I'd never have entertained the idea that they would, in their ghostly form, protect any human from anything. I enjoyed that a lot--casting a cougar in a hero role.
Ann D., I like your thoughts about Mary in #20. I didn't chill at the reading of the silhouette gift, but now you bring it up I agree, Mary reached mental illness territory long before she killed Alice. The whole deal of entombing herself with Alice to die showed me that she was there, but I considered that if the murder was not intentional it would have finally driven her over the edge. It was crazy to add sheep to their business when she did, but that was more in the colloquial sense. Her response to making apple cider out of Osgood Wonders was the final straw, maybe? I had no doubt she very intentionally murdered the bounty hunter, which was so creepy, just for intruding.
So 21-27, I can't add anything but to say I've enjoyed all the comments.Ann D. said: I laughed out loud when I read this, but it was very poignant.
I must say, chapter 11 (p. 311 in my book) is a regular riot. I was on the patio last evening reading this, and there was a lot of laughing out loud going on. The neighbors may even have noticed.
Is it interesting that Alice couldn't pursue the life she desired because of her crazy sister, and Helen had to leave home to pursue a life because of her crazy brother?
Tonya wrote: "I recall being a tiny bit bored or annoyed or something by this exact treatment in another book (title hasn't come to me yet-was it Cloud Cuckoo Land?) that described in detail the travels of a specific bug (in a crate of fabric or clothing?"Was it Hamnet? I enjoyed that chapter about the flea!
Laurel wrote: "Was it Hamnet?..."Thank you, thank you, thank you! Of course it was! I started out enjoying it and how it broadened the world. Maybe it took too long, I was missing the characters? Whatever it was, that was still a 5 star book for me.
I just remembered
From "Proverbs and Sayings"
, the section that says, "WHEN the sheep are gone, comes the quiet of the pasture," (p103 in my copy) and 3 pages of footnotes. This is totally new to me, something I have not encountered in any book. And I was outside without enough light, so I had to skip it. I have to read those footnotes!
Hi Laurel. Hamnet is one of my favorite books. The title character died of bubonic plague, so it makes sense that the flea (the carrier, assisted by rats) would play a prominent part in the story.
Tonya, great notes! They gave me a lot more to think about.You mentioned two other books of linked stories that are somewhat like this book: Cloud Atlas and Cloud Cuckoo Land: A Novel. Good observation. I liked both books, although I admit to getting lost in Cloud Atlas.
It seems to me that North Woods is more tightly woven together than either of those two, but that could just be me. Mason centers his book on a particular place through time which helps. I think those ghosts also serve a literary purpose in tying the stories together.
I was very touched by some of the stories, especially that of Robert. As I remember, the local ghosts did play a role in his hallucinations, but they were mostly benevolent, in contrast to the cruel Harrow gang who tortured him. Like you, I was very relieved he did not have the lobotomy, which would have gotten rid of his symptoms, at the cost of erasing his personality.
The ghosts of the painter and writer at least got to be together in the afterlife. Too bad for Mrs. Farnsworth that their perceived sexual activity seems to have tipped her over the edge. I thought their story in the "real" world was very sad.
I agree that the chapter about the amateur historian was very amusing. Another part that made me laugh was the true crime story by reporter Jack Dunne. His writing was so bad! He showed no consideration for his wife, who we find out later killed him not long after he published his story.
I would agree North Woods is more tightly woven--characters are influenced by those who came before through their ghosts!I remember wondering, when I read the blurb, if this book is a cousin to some by James A. Michener? His only book I read was Space (in 1982!), but judging by the titles (Texas, Hawaii) they could be at least cousins.
I still haven't done my rereading... hoping to get to that today!
Somebody should have warned me that the entire footnote (pp 105-105) was going into detail about a bunch of seeds from the Isle of Wight migrating to the North Woods, lol. Anyway, I've read that now. ~groan~And I reread a lot of the doctor's case notes. Not much changed for me; it still seems like Robert legitimately hears truly dead people. I don't think it's a great leap that since his tapes prove he 'heard' truthful things from the North Woods ghosts ("Soul Heirs"), then he was also hearing real ghosts in Boston ("the Harrow"). And yet some of his behavior and practices are textbook schizophrenia, like believing he overheard people planning to kill him, the Rupture that he anticipates and tries to prevent. Even his book probably, but I don't recall specific stories of any other schizophrenic's masterworks.
And then, just leafing thru the entire book I gained some appreciation for the scrapbook journal style, in spite of the fact that much of it could not be.
I remember that as I read from chapter to chapter I was always watching for a clue to the approximate year, which was usually there. But it does get fuzzier toward the end and left me with thinking Nora's story could be anywhere like 1960-now. And then Succession goes way into the future, of course, leading to that memorable last line. It felt perfect.
I just read about 2/3 of this book, in perfect settings (spent a 3-day weekend on the coast in Yachats, Oregon, and read bits of it on various beaches with lovely views of waves and rocks. Tonya mentioned Michener. I read everything he wrote! And the structure of this book reminded me of his, in that the novel centers on one place throughout a long span of time. The difference is that Michener's books spanned a larger geographical area (such as all of Colorado) and often time that started back in geologic history and wove its way through to the present, whereas North Woods restrains itself to one location with surrounding woods.
One of my favorite things in a novel is not knowing what's coming next, and this definitely fit that bill! What a range!
I enjoyed some of the tales much more than others. Like others, I got to skimming/skipping the lyrics. I enjoyed the Osgood apple stories, and laughed aloud at the surprise ghostly shout of, "What the hell have you done to my apples?"
The male lovers had an engaging, if bittersweet, story (why oh why did he make the woman mean enough to tear up the letter?)
I think my favorite so far, though, is when the ghost of Mary rises up and axes the slave trader. I'm usually not much a fan of magical realism/ghosts in stories, but had to applaud this!
Lyn, You probably abused the conventional idea of a "beach read," but in the best way! Sounds nice...Lyn wrote: "the structure of this book reminded me of his [Michener], in that the novel centers on one place throughout a long span of time."
Thank you, I'm so glad you could answer. I thought it was fairly likely (without being curious enough to do more than ask.)
I finished this novel. Thoroughly enjoyed! Such an imaginative, original undertaking! Thanks, Ann, for steering us to this one.
Thanks for reporting back, Lyn. I'm very glad you enjoyed the book.
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Hamnet (other topics)
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https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2024/....
I also especially enjoyed this interview of Mason by Josephine Wong, a 17 yearold high school girl: https://www.the-orb.org/post/north-wo.... In this interview, Mason explains how he went about writing the book.
This is one of the most original books I have ever read. It is group of stories and other writing centered on a wooded location in New Hampshire over a 300 year period. Before too long, a yellow house is built on the site. There is, of course, a succession of human inhabitants. Nature itself is a character, and Mason shows us how much it too changes over the course of this long history.
Although I am not generally drawn to short stories, I do like short stories that are linked together. I am always intrigued by the way the author interweaves significant objects and characters into later incidents.
The book does not just consist of 3rd person or 1st person narratives. It also includes pages from the almanac, a true crime story written by an exceptionally untalented magazine writer, psychiatric notes from a doctor specializing in lobotomies, an undelivered speech by an amateur historian, and rather dreadful songs written by two isolated sisters.
Mason changes his authorial voice frequently, although he has said he tries scrupulously to stay true to the available state of knowledge and the writing style of the various historical settings.
His tone also changes, and can veer from heartbreaking to humorous or even to very sharp satire.
I think there is much to discuss in this book. It was widely praised by critics in 2023.
How did you respond to the book? Is it one you would recommend to others?
The structure is definitely unique. Did you like the disparate parts?
Do you think Mason succeeded in linking the segments together into a coherent whole?
Were there any characters in the book that you found particularly touching or scary?
Any thoughts on the role ghosts play in this books?