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Weekly TLS > What are we reading? 15/07/2024

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message 151: by Paul (last edited Jul 23, 2024 06:48AM) (new)

Paul | 1 comments My grandfather supported the Vietnam war, because his generation believed that communism needed to be stopped. But, he also believed that it was a French War, started by the French, lost by the French who asked the USA to get involved in line with their foreign policy. It was a wrong-headed foreign policy that caused countless lives, but the UK/French/Dutch/Spanish/Italians still have that very same culpability. They simply pretend that that culpability doesn't exist.

The Korean War is the forgotten war. Outside of high school history class, I rarely hear it mentioned.

But, in any case, I'm really done with Euros passing the responsibility on for problems that they caused and continue to cause as if they sit at home with their Elgin Marbles and Nigerian Oil and Russian Gas and their role is entirely transparent.

I think that the USA, and the majority of its citizens, are quite aware if the sins that they're responsible for, if not the full spectrum of them, then at least their existence and their dispersion. I don't think the same can be said of the UK or France. There is a tone deafness. The USA had slaves: they were sold by the Brits and the Dutch (and started by the Brits). The US slaughtered its native population: heh, that was more the British and French and Spanish and microbiology. This isnt' to absolve the US of their responsibility, but rather to say that the responsibility is shared.


message 152: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Paul wrote: "Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "so biden has pulled out of the race, i wonder if this can change the dial and stop Trum..."

Kelly looks like a good pick too


message 153: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments scarletnoir wrote: "We Europeans value and have not forgotten US support in that one [WWII], and it maybe could not have been won without them.

Again, that has not been my experience. I have heard hundreds of times here in Europe, that WWII was won by the Russians and that the USA played a secondary role. While losing more than 400,000 lives and freeing a fairly large chunk of Europe. And again, I hear it mostly from Italians (and never to my memory from anyone from the UK), which is odd because I don't remember Stalin freeing Rome or Paris or...... but I also hear the same from French. "Oh, the USA entered late, the Russians would have freed us a few days later. " The USA didn't save all of the Jews". "The USA was only interested in profitting from the reconstruction" Which is an ignorance of 50 years of post-war repression. I l hear this kind of numbnuts mental vacuity on a frequent basis.

"oh, the Americans bombed the train station in Bologna!" "Oh the Americans made us assasinate Qadaffi" Oh the Americans caused the war in Syria" "Oh the Americans created Apartheid (no joke)" Oh the Americans invested more in the Germans post-war, that's why our country is so disoganized" "Oh, well. America was buying gas and oil from Russia too ."
All sorts of purely crazy bullshit, American citizens living in America have really no idea the level of crazy Anti-American propaganda that
is disseminated here in Europe. On all levels. Food. Music. Industry. Work Culture. Home Construction. Women's Rights. Nature Conservation. Again my experience is largely confined to Italy, but amongst my Expat friends in Spain and Holland and Turkey, the feedback is mostly the same.



message 154: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Paul wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "We Europeans value and have not forgotten US support in that one [WWII], and it maybe could not have been won without them.

Again, that has not been my experience. I have hear..."


sad to hear that level of anti-Americanism Paul. It sounds a little similar to what many well educated Australian friends i have said about the british approach to Australia in the 2020s. Historically it was seen as a place lacking in culture, inhabited by ex-convicts with very little brains(all totally wrong ofc). one of these friends became quite despondent about the level of subtle anti-australianism he encountered in a good job in london.

Prejudices of the old world about the new world never seems to end i guess


message 155: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't see it. Harris' husband is Jewish and selection of a Jewish running mate would send the GOP into full Der Stürmer mode.


message 156: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't see it. Harris..."



Yeah, I expected that the Jewish VP paired with the Indo-Jamaican presidential candidate would be a bridge too far into Terrifying Lands of Woke


message 157: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2581 comments Paul wrote: "I think that for my grandfather and his generation 700,000 dead Americans for someone else's wars was more than enough and they simply didn't give two %^&^%."

Coincidentally, that is very similar to the number of deaths in the American Civil War, which of course was only 80 years before WWII.

Not passing judgement, just an observation.


message 158: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments There is evidence in cave art of humans injuring one another going back at least 30,000 years and further evidence from ancient skeletons that warfare in various forms has been more or less continuous. Tribes have fought one another for various reasons just like countries cannot seem to live in peace.
Perhaps we can simply say ‘human nature’.
All these recent comments make me feel quite sad; they perpetuate arguments, we don’t seem to learn.
Wouldn’t it be better to think more about shared progress, ways to promote better understanding than to go over all these old ‘he said, they did..’ arguments like squabbling children again.
Disappointed..


message 159: by Robert (new)

Robert Rudolph | 464 comments Paul wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "We Europeans value and have not forgotten US support in that one [WWII], and it maybe could not have been won without them.

Again, that has not been my experience. I have hear..."


My father (who told me a good deal about the beginning of the Korean War) explained it this way: "No one likes the most powerful country in the world. When the British were the most powerful, everyone hated them. Now it's us."

As for Korea, well, Stalin wanted to test who really was the most powerful man in the world...


message 160: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Although our tastes differ, I think we can both agree that lists or what the 'experts' think may be good for us isn't something either of us buy in to. Each to his/her/their own, I say."

Though I do tend to be critical of literary awards and these kinds of lists, I do recognize, as the bookstore’s surrender to customer requests indicates, that they apparently serve many readers as a kind of Ariadne’s thread into the maze of books published every year.

Of course, every reader needs a way to look over the mass of books and somehow isolate those which they will pick up and (at least begin to) read. Experienced readers, I believe, tend to develop an inner sense of what will appeal to them, which I would call taste. But taste can only be developed by a reasonably wide range of reading, which is something that is increasingly rare, so for those who read only a few books a year, lists and awards serve as a kind of surrogate for taste.


message 161: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments Paul wrote: "Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't see it. Harris' husband is Jewish and selection of a Jewish running mate would send the GOP into full Der Stürmer mode."

Yeah, I expected that the Jewish VP paired with the Indo-Jamaican presidential candidate would be a bridge too far into Terrifying Lands of Woke"


I think it would depend entirely on how strong a supporter of Israel he was. Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms.

Although, if he was a critic of the policies or actions of the state of Israel in even the mildest possible way, or even if he failed to support them with the necessary vehemence, he'd probably be attacked as a "self-hating Jew" - a term which, come to think of it, might itself be described as a twisted form of anti-semitism, though I've never seen anyone do so.


message 162: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments Robert wrote: "My father (who told me a good deal about the beginning of the Korean War) explained it this way: "No one likes the most powerful country in the world. When the British were the most powerful, everyone hated them. Now it's us."."

I'd say there's a lot of truth to that. I would only add, "With good reason, in both cases".

The rest of the world had every reason to fear and hate the western imperial powers, just as much of the world today has good reason to fear and hate today's superpowers - Russia (near enough), China, and the US. Because there's always a chance that the powerful will abuse their power, and if they do, there's little the less powerful can do about it (unless they have one of the other top rank powers backing them).

I think that's true in any sphere but when it comes to nation-states that chance becomes a near-certainty. So , during the Cold War, much of eastern Europe had good reason to hate Russia and look to the US for support, just as Latin America had good reason to feel the converse. When Russia invaded Ukraine, previously neutral European nations like Sweden or Finland had every reason to suddenly want to join NATO (which is one reason I think it was a bone-headed move by Russia). Palestinians have every reason to hate and fear the US and the west in general for its support of Israel's aggression. And so on.


message 163: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6650 comments Mod
Back to books!
The Transit of Venus by Shirley Hazzard I've just re-read Shirley Hazzard's The Transit of Venus. I first read it about 20 years ago and have been meaning to read it again since reading other books of hers and her biography. The negative viewpoints of it over on WWR spurred me on to pick it up.
I still think it's wonderful :). It's rich and intelligent and profound ...
It has to be read carefully; for example, if one isn't paying attention the sense of the ending can be completely missed.

The Night Lords by Nicolas Freeling In a very different vein, also a re-read, The Night Lords in Nicolas Freeling's Inspector Castang series. An English judge is on holiday in France with his family. One evening their Rolls-Royce is left in an isolated restaurant car-park and when the boot is opened, the body of a naked girl is found.


message 164: by AB76 (last edited Jul 24, 2024 02:53AM) (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments France on Trial The Case of Marshal Pétain by Julian T. Jackson France on Trial is a delight to read, full of information, facts and the fascinating story of France between 1940-45.

Jackson is a superb writer, possibly the best historian alongside Clark of the last decade for style and verve. There is a bitter feel to the trial, which has now began(almost exactly 79 years ago 22nd July 1945), linked, on my behalf, to the silent voices of the Jews deported by the Vichy regime and the petty violence and murder inflicted on fellow Frenchmen,

Petain is every inch the wily and slightly senile gentleman i expected him to be, there is a strange lack of responsbility for all the negatives of his regime but a strong link to what he percieves as the positives. I suppose there is a chance he was manipulated by nastier characters, keen to rubber stamp their vision on France, letting an old figurehead lead but as Vichy was so vindictive and unpleasent, this doesnt wash.

The packed, stifling court is an exercise in french inquisitorial justice, so different to the adversarial system of the UK and the USA. I have just read the section where Paul Reynaud, French PM until the surrender in 1940, speaks at the trial, a voice from the past, spending WW2 in captivity in an Austrian castle


message 165: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Berkley wrote: "Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms."

Charlottesville.


message 166: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments Bill wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms."

Charlottesville."


Yes, certainly I don't deny the existence of antisemitism amongst the right wing voting base, paradoxically combined with fervid support for the state of Israel no matter what. All related to the twisted history of Christianity and Judaism, of course, which in my view is behind the irrational fetishisation of the Jewish people that has led to both antisemitism and this unquestioning belief in Israel's right to do whatever it likes.

But I agree with Gpfr, back to books: I've been very impressed with the Adalbert Stifter stories I've been reading lately. They don't sound like much if you describe them - e.g. The Forest Path: eccentric man gets lost in forest, meets pretty girl, marries her - but Stifter has a way of describing scenes and characters that gives them an unexpected impact. Once I finish the two shortish collections I have going I'll try his novel, Indian Summer.


message 167: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Berkley wrote: "Bill wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms."

Charlottesville."

Yes, ce..."


i'm a fan of Stifter. Austro-Hungary before the amazing burst of great writers we all know from the 1890s onwards, has very few 19c writers in accessible print. Hungary's Jokai is almost out of print and Stifter until 5 years ago had the same plight

I read and enjoyed The Bachelors by Stifter and have a NYRB collectyion on the pile


message 168: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments AB76 wrote: "
i'm a fan of Stifter. Austro-Hungary before the amazing burst of great writers we all know from the 1890s onwards, has very few 19c writers in accessible print. Hungary's Jokai is almost out of print and Stifter until 5 years ago had the same plight

I read and enjoyed The Bachelors by Stifter and have a NYRB collectyion on the pile .."


Didn't know about The Bachelors, I'll have a look for that one. Is the NYRB collection Colourful Stones aka Rock Crystal? I have three of the six stories in the two Stifter books I have already so I'll probably read those first and possibly look for the complete collection later.


message 169: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Berkley wrote: "AB76 wrote: "
i'm a fan of Stifter. Austro-Hungary before the amazing burst of great writers we all know from the 1890s onwards, has very few 19c writers in accessible print. Hungary's Jokai is alm..."


my collection is "Motley Stones", which i think must be the collection you mentioned Berkeley


message 170: by RussellinVT (new)

RussellinVT | 610 comments Mod
Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases full of books free for the taking, ranging from crime mysteries and fantasy through lots of modern fiction to classics and interesting non-fiction (e,g, the Shell Guide to Britain’s inland waterways). Is this usual now in smaller stations? I didn’t see a free library in stations that were large enough to support a WH Smith.

I helped myself to a copy of Sebastian Faulks’ Birdsong. I had read a couple of his that were moderately all right, and I thought it was time I read the one that made his name. I found it a strong read whose power was in the story rather than the style. The extended description of the first day of the Somme was vivid and believable. My grandfather was one of those who went over the top that morning. He was in the trenches from then until the end of the war. We have a few details from his letters and a family memoir. This book, better than most war histories, showed me what he endured.


message 171: by RussellinVT (new)

RussellinVT | 610 comments Mod
Tam wrote: "... Is this Stendhal the same as the progenitor of the Stendhal syndrome?....

I remember standing in a room in a palace in Florence which I was told was the place that it happened to him!"


I had never heard of Stendhal syndrome and am rather charmed to learn of it.


message 172: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments description

The Zillow edition.


message 173: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2581 comments Logger24 wrote: "Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases full of books free f..."

I hope you had a good trip. I have never seen a station library, but then I haven't been on a train for about 7 years!


message 174: by Robert (last edited Jul 25, 2024 12:42AM) (new)

Robert Rudolph | 464 comments Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't see it. Harris..."


You do know that Trump's daughter is a convert to Judaism, right?

A better question is why not drop Harris altogether. Several of the "running mates" might make better Presidents.


message 175: by Robert (new)

Robert Rudolph | 464 comments Bill wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms."

Charlottesville."


What Charlottesville was actually about or the subsequent spin? At this point we hear more hostility about Jews from the anti-Israel left than the right.


message 176: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Robert wrote: "Bill wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Isn't Trump's daughter married to a Jewish person - and even converted to Judaism to do so? I doubt they'd attack him in antisemitic terms."

Charlottesville."

What Ch..."


Oh please, take a trip to New York and talk to some actual Jews, roughly 75% of whom are anti-Israel, and they will explain to quiteb forcefully the difference between Israel and Judaism. If you want the fascist Jews, go to Florida


message 177: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Logger24 wrote: "Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases full of books free f..."

my local station is a void, just food and nothing else...you were lucky!


message 178: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments Robert wrote: "Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't s..."


i'm torn over Harris. The spectre of the orange oaf is looming so large that the Democrats will need a perfect few months to win and i just hope Harris brings her A game. I still suspect Trump will win in Nov and then begin his 2025 project of de-stabilising the USA even more


message 179: by Robert (new)

Robert Rudolph | 464 comments AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro..."


The remaining months will be jammed with advertising aimed at generating panic about Trump. Any resemblance to actual issues or the state of the country will be purely coincidental.


message 180: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments I have read some really interesting East Asian novels in 2024, from Korea, Japan and China

The latest is At Dusk by Hwang Sok Yong(2018). Now in his 80s, Sok Yong is the master of novels about South Korea and its emergence out of the post-Korean War poverty into the thriving nation it is today

This novel concerns an architect looking back at his youth and younger days, placed against the changes to the city of Seoul and the poverty he grew up in. Its slightly fragmentary and experimental which suprised me but is a valuable document of the generation that built the nation and are now in retirement,


message 181: by RussellinVT (new)

RussellinVT | 610 comments Mod
AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY)...."

i'm torn over Harris...."


At least she gives the Democrats a chance. With Biden, after the shock of the debate, there was no chance. She certainly has vulnerabilities (not least that she, along with the rest of the inner circle, kept quiet about Biden’s condition), but I’m not convinced that any of her potential running mates would have been better choices for the top of the ticket. However able, none of them has her name recognition or her appeal to black and women voters.


message 182: by Tam (new)

Tam Dougan (tamdougan) | 1102 comments Logger24 wrote: "Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases full of books free f..."

They are pretty common around here. Him-in-doors is running the one in our local church, as a sort of honoury 'non-religious' member of the congregation, as in 'he's a Professor so he must know all about books' I guess... Our local National Trust property, the grounds of 'Stowe' has a large second-hand book shop, but it's not a cheap option, though it does have some quite exotic fare. Our local Tesco's also runs one, but the choice of books tends to be crime/mystery/romantic and practical non-fictions. All rely on donated books though.

Also I have seen a few 'converted telephone box's' into book exchanges, especially in villages. The best one I have seen is in the old church (not the cathedral) in the centre of Peterborough where a community cafe, run by volunteers takes up around half the nave. They run a lot of community events there and it is a very friendly welcoming place. I haven't seen any book exchanges at local railway stations, as yet, though.


message 183: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Paul wrote: "Why did the UK and France have to support all those autocrats and dictators in Africa? You don't really come to terms with that, while slinging your little bows and arrows."

You seem quite good at telling me what I think. Unfortunately, you are almost always wrong in your assumptions.

I agree completely with what you say about the UK- or should that be England? I'm Welsh, and we were the first victims of English imperialism and invasion, and are still suffering the consequences.

Because I agree with you about British imperialism - can I assume you will also agree with me about US interference in South and Central America - or is that a bridge too far?

(You seem to think that everyone who lives in the UK has a portrait of Cecil Rhodes above the mantelpiece! ;-)

(With respect to British history, you may like to consider the difference between the attitudes of leaders such as Harold Wilson towards Ian Smith of Rhodesia, and that of Margaret Thatcher towards the South African apartheid regime, or General Pinochet of Chile...)


message 184: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Paul wrote: "All sorts of purely crazy bullshit, American citizens living in America have really no idea the level of crazy Anti-American propaganda that is disseminated here in Europe.."


I won't reply to this, except to say that I prefer to argue specific examples rather than indulge in hearsay and finger-pointing.


message 185: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Bill wrote: "Speaking from closer to the action, most bets for Harris' VP pick are on a "red state" governor, Cooper (NC) or Beshear (KY).

There is quite a bit of talk about Shapiro, but I don't see it. Harris..."


What do you think of Harris, Bill - as someone who lives in the US? Most of us only know a little. Reading her Wikipedia entry, she seemed on the whole to be very impressive with a few weak spots. I doubt any politician can point to an immaculate record.

(I think most Europeans would prefer 'anyone but Trump, except for the far right people. Can Harris win?)


message 186: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Robert wrote: "My father (who told me a good deal about the beginning of the Korean War) explained it this way: "No one likes the most powerful country in the world. When the British were the most powerful, everyone hated them. Now it's us."

I think he had a point... of course, it'll probably be China before very long.


message 187: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Berkley wrote: ".The rest of the world had every reason to fear and hate the western imperial powers, just as much of the world today has good reason to fear and hate today's superpowers - Russia (near enough), China, and the US. Because there's always a chance that the powerful will abuse their power, and if they do, there's little the less powerful can do about it (unless they have one of the other top rank powers backing them)."

I agree 100% with this and the rest of your wise comment.


message 188: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Gpfr wrote: "Back to books!
The Transit of Venus by Shirley Hazzard I've just re-read Shirley Hazzard's The Transit of Venus. I first read it about 20 years ago and have been meaning to read it again since readi..."


Thanks for that - I know nothing about the author. The title seems familiar, but I can't be sure if that is simply because of the scientific phenomenon and its historical importance. It is recommended by Anne Tyler, so I'll certainly consider giving it a go.


message 189: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Tam wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases ful..."

I'm not sure how common they are, but they certainly exist... my home town is well stocked with a library as well as a number of charity shops selling second hand books, as well as several second-hand bookstores (it's a university town), so I doubt we have one - if there is, I've not seen it. On the other hand, when in France I was very surprised to see a small free book exchange in a tiny village near the lac de Guerledan and our place 'over there'. So, it's not just a UK thing. (Can't say if expats were involved, but the village library in France also accepts donations of books.)


message 190: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2581 comments Nothing to do with books, but for all the Welsh people on here I have just been watching the stream from Swansea University for my goddaughter's son's graduation (my godgrandson?) Everything of course in Welsh and English and a beautiful rendition of the Welsh National Anthem by one of the newly graduated ladies who had a lovely voice.


message 191: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments The Mistress of Bhatia House by Sujata Massey

This is the fourth book in the series featuring Mumbai's fictional first female solicitor, Perveen Mistry. As usual, it deals as much or more with the treatment and status of women (and servants) as it does with the 'mystery' element, and in common with the earlier books is a bit of a slow burn. I enjoyed it well enough, though the denouement at the end felt both a bit abrupt and also rather long in its explication.

It also deals with the attitude of (some) British to the Indians, whose country they ruled at the time.


message 192: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Paul wrote: "Why did the UK and France have to support all those autocrats and dictators in Africa? You don't really come to terms with that, while slinging your little bows and arrows."

You seem ..."



Because I agree with you about British imperialism - can I assume you will also agree with me about US interference in South and Central America - or is that a bridge too far?


Of course it's a bridge too far, did I not say precisely that? It's abhorrent. But, let's not forget where Pinochet fled and who was his favorite dinner guest. I believe that The Exploited wrote a song about her.

You seem to think that everyone who lives in the UK has a portrait of Cecil Rhodes above the mantelpiece!

Well, again, based upon my interaction with British people abroad, I would say that that is generally the impression that I have gotten, mistaken though it may be. Not, however British folk who have left the UK in order to live abroad, those that emigrate temporarily for work experience in the sciences


message 193: by Bill (last edited Jul 25, 2024 07:15AM) (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments scarletnoir wrote: "What do you think of Harris, Bill - as someone who lives in the US?"

I rather liked her in the early going in 2019, but her campaign couldn't gain any traction for reasons that weren't entirely clear to me. I agree with @Logger24 that she now gives the Democrats a chance that they didn't have after Biden's debate debacle. I think she brings a number of strengths to the contest, not least an appeal to younger voters, who had no enthusiasm for Biden. Referring specifically to abortion, but also applicable in a broader sense, "We're not going back," seems like it would be a good slogan for her.

If the Democrats win, I just wonder if they have any plan for holding on to the victory after these guys weigh in:
description


message 194: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6939 comments About 18 years ago, my late, exceedingly well read grandfather was discussing a Naguib Mahfouz novel he was reading with me and he started to tell about the basic set of plots that all literature has used from time immemorial. Sad to say i forgot the plots he mentioned but the TLS has saved me

It lists the nine plots as follows, via the work of Christopher Booker:

Overcoming the monster
Rags to Riches
Quest
Voyage and Return
Tragedy
Comedy
Rebirth
Rebellion Against the one
The Detective Story

Even as i get older and have read more and more books, i try and avoid micro-analysis of what i am reading like this but it has made me think a lot in last 20 mins.


message 195: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6650 comments Mod
scarletnoir wrote: "Tam wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Been away on a trip to the UK and was pleasantly surprised to find that in the entrance-hall/booking office of the small local train station there were three sizeable bookcases full of books..."

I'm not sure how common they are, but they certainly exist... it's not just a UK thing."


There are about 6 near my home, 5-10 minutes walk in different directions. 2 in parks, supplied by the local authority — I posted a photo of one during a previous discussion of the topic, on page 4 of Photos — and less elaborate book boxes that people have put on their garden railings. There's also a bookcase in the entrance to the library.


message 196: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments AB76 wrote: "It lists the nine plots as follows, via the work of Christopher Booker:

Overcoming the monster
Rags to Riches
Quest
Voyage and Return
Tragedy
Comedy
Rebirth
Rebellion Against the one
The Detective Story"


"Tragedy" and "Comedy" seem rather broad terms for inclusion in this group. I'm not sure where the plots of most generic Romance novels would fit in here.


message 197: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Robert wrote: "You do know that Trump's daughter is a convert to Judaism, right?"

Oh, yes, the one whose husband received 2 billion dollars from Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.


message 198: by Tam (new)

Tam Dougan (tamdougan) | 1102 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Paul wrote: "Why did the UK and France have to support all those autocrats and dictators in Africa? You don't really come to terms with that, while slinging your little bows and arrows."

You seem ..."


I think that you both should kick the debate in to touch somehow. I have a good friend who is American who lived in Chile, and married a Chilean woman who he went on to have a family with, in the US. He is a well educated urbane chap originally from the east coast, but he has always denied that America had interfered in the death of democratically elected President Allende, around the time he was living there. It is a matter of perspective, and from the American point of view, at the time, Pinochet was representative as someone who was fighting for 'freedom', against the possible 'communist terror' that might have been unleashed, if Allende had been allowed to continued his reign!... ? I also had friends at art college, who were refugees from the Pinochet's empire, and so I certainly heard accounts from those from the other side of that perspective. You both make some good points, but it is not enough I think, to ever coming to see eye to eye about it, at least without shifting some long time held, perspectives.

Personally I feel that I am not responsible for some of the terrible things that the British Empire have done. I can feel sad, but that's about it, until I became of voting age. I'm happy to be called to account from then on, which to me is 1973. So I let these grudge matches go, in terms of how I perceive the world, but I am still happy for previous era's to be held to account and am very happy that there are historians that are holding those previous eras to account through proper research.

I don't accept my American friends view, on this particular point, but we can agree to disagree over it somehow. He's still a good guy somehow!...

This is my account of Pinochet and the death of Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda (who was an avowed communist) https://jediperson.wordpress.com/wp-c... in case either of you are interested. We (in the British Empire) and many others, did very similar sorts of stuff, throughout history. Nothing to be proud of, but that is the nature of power, on the whole. It's ripe for abuse, by those that can, or just even imagine that they can, manage it...


message 199: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2581 comments Tam wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Paul wrote: "Why did the UK and France have to support all those autocrats and dictators in Africa? You don't really come to terms with that, while slinging your little bows and..."

Slavery and empire building is as old as the hills to be honest. Persian, Alexander the Great, Roman, various Chinese, Ghenghis Khan, Norman, British, Spanish, French, Dutch in W. Indies and S Africa.

We can acknowledge the past, but we surely can't alter it.


message 200: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2581 comments scarletnoir wrote: "I agree completely with what you say about the UK- or should that be England? I'm Welsh, and we were the first victims of English imperialism and invasion, and are still suffering the consequences.."

Norman?


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