Ersatz TLS discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Weekly TLS
>
What are we reading? 15/07/2024
CCCubbon wrote: "Paul wrotebut you guys are a few decades removed from.living in turf huts and painting yourselves blue again.
Ah shucks, Paul, and here was me thinking we were quite civilised, bit boshie as a n..."
a question CCC, who is the Prime Minister you most admired in your long life?
AB76 wrote: ".The UK system is rotten too, i'm a believer in the worst of all worlds when it comes to the Anglo-Saxon establishment (US-UK-Aus-Can-NZ)and i opposed brexit and knew it would be a disaster!
i would go with the Swiss system of govt if i could choose one....
"
Is that the one where they have lots of referenda? Because you didn't like the result of our last one!
Do you think the referendum on AV was too convoluted in 2011?
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: ".The UK system is rotten too, i'm a believer in the worst of all worlds when it comes to the Anglo-Saxon establishment (US-UK-Aus-Can-NZ)and i opposed brexit and knew it would be a d..."
i think i like the rotating presidents bit
AB76 wrote: ".i think i like the rotating presidents bit"On a spit?
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: ".i think i like the rotating presidents bit"On a spit?"
hahahaha....
AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Yes, Stendahl is such an interesting character."i need to read Stendhal again, i too tried The Red and The Black but it stank., although i was younger and more rigid in what i wanted from a novel .."
The entire opening section when Julien is still living in his native village was the least interesting part of the novel to me, though it's important for what follows, and in fact I must admit that it wasn't until Book II, in which Julien begins his career in Paris, that I really felt completely involved with the story and the characters. But I liked the earlier parts enough that I kept going and once I got into Book II I was glad I'd persevered.
scarletnoir wrote: "Edit: This list was written in 2019, but I didn't notice since it has reappeared on the G's book pages. Sorry.And while we're on lists, the Guardian has posted its own list of the 100 Best books ..."
The Curious Incident was good.
AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "Paul wrotebut you guys are a few decades removed from.living in turf huts and painting yourselves blue again.
Ah shucks, Paul, and here was me thinking we were quite civilised, ..."
Immediately I thought Atlee although I was vey young at the time, mostly for bringing some stability back to the country and for the NHS.
Churchill in wartime was inspiring but I didn’t like his later government - thought he was admired by nostalgia rather than alility.
Wilson kept us out of Vietnam but things were rather shambolic.
Blair did some good repair work at first.
Thought MacMillan was ineffectual. Disliked Thatcher very much for the harm she did to ordinary communities with her policies.
So, there are pluses and minuses in every administration, no one gets it all right but I come back to Atlee and life was hard, rationing, etc., etc., but rebuilding began
I asked MrC the question and he said Wilson
Tam wrote: "He is also someone who I suspect is a bit economical with the truth... But he is a story teller first and foremost"Absolutely... Herzog would, I reckon, freely admit to 'embellishment' and is well known for indulging in it - it's no secret. Another author well known for this tendency was Romain Gary... anyone reading his autobiography 'La promesse de l'aube' expecting to find a detailed and truthful account of his life will be seriously disappointed! On the other hand, they will be entertained...
Paul wrote: "I've got to ask, and this is an inevitable logjam I find almost always with Brits: why in the name of fuck are you so obsessed with US politics...So yeah, Trump bad, but I'll take the US constitution over the Lord's and Ladies Parliament any day of the week..."
Well, I agree with much of what you say - and especially about Brexit... but to answer the first point first. Too many British PMs seem to see the US as their 'big brother' - you may not be aware, but two former PMs (Truss and Johnson) have been sniffing around the Republican convention with begging bowls in hand - on their own personal behalf, not the UK's. Recent PM Tony Blair was so much in thrall to Dubya Bush that he contrived to get the UK involved in a wholly pointless and unnecessary war in Iraq*, at great cost to the UK. After Brexit, we had a lot of bleating from the Brexiteers about so-called 'oven ready' trade treaties with the US and other countries. We're still waiting for these to materialise.
So whether we like it or not (I don't and would prefer the UK leaders to grow a pair and have an arm's length relationship with the US as do the French), what happens in the US is still of great interest to our leaders, and the rest of us better pay attention.
As for the second point - of course, Trump can't constitutionally extend his mandate beyond two terms. But will he go peacefully? You tell me. He didn't seem to want to walk away last time.
*Edit: I meant to add that the underrated PM Harold Wilson managed to keep the UK out of the Vietnam war, for which we were truly grateful.
Did Wilson ever suggest that he would intervene in Vietnam? The Cartoon History of Britain has an image of an aircraft rigged as a flying Dove of Peace-- the head of the dove looks remarkably like HW-- with Wilson leaning out of both sides of the cockpit. To one side, Wilson assures his own party Left: "Don't worry, boys! This will be Peace in Our Time!" To the other side, Wilson leans toward Johnson: "Don't worry, LBJ! You know this thing hasn't an engine!"
AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Yes, Stendahl is such an interesting character."I tried to read The Red and the Black a very long time ago - at a time when I was minded to read a..."
I read The Red and the Black years ago, and rather liked it, but The Charterhouse of Parma defeated me. If the hero of Charterhouse had emigrated to the US and joined our army, no one would have given a damn about which side he was on at Waterloo, and he wouldn't have had to grow into a clerical mask. (Of course, no Stendahl hero would ever dream of emigrating.)
CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "Paul wrotebut you guys are a few decades removed from.living in turf huts and painting yourselves blue again.
Ah shucks, Paul, and here was me thinking we were quit..."
i like those choices CCC. I have only read about them but my paternal grandfather was a strong Labour man and a fan of Attlee and then Gaitskell. He liked Wilson too and lived long enough to see Blair elected in 1997 but he was an old Labour man and slightly wary of New Labour
Berkley wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "Yes, Stendahl is such an interesting character."i need to read Stendhal again, i too tried The Red and The Black but it stank., although i was yo..."
Is this Stendhal the same as the progenitor of the Stendhal syndrome?
https://www.scielo.br/j/anp/a/3yRYFFQ....
I remember standing in a room in a palace in Florence which I was told was the place that it happened to him!...
Finished two very satisfying reads In Light of India by Octavio Paz and Gelignite by William Marshall. India and Hong KOng, fact and fictionI also got myself a new computer chair as the old one's gas canister packed up and it tended to lurch backwards and sideways as all the pedals were buggered
Next up is the much anticipated France on Trial by Julian Jackson and a South Korean novel At Dusk by Hwang Sok Yong
Vichy France and Petain remains a fascinating focus of mine and via many french websites like Gallica i have mined a lot of documents, magazines, comics and propaganda from that period. The darkest hours of post 1789 France, where a "peace" was made with a violent invader, leading to a shameful 3-4 years of collusion. I look foward to more information about Petain and his trial. I enjoyed Jacksons book on De Gaulle and Phillip Nords work on France 1936-1950.
Mod
Is this Stendhal the same as the progenitor of the Stendhal syndrome?"
Yes, it is.
AB76 wrote: "Finished two very satisfying reads In Light of India by Octavio Paz and Gelignite by William Marshall. India and Hong KOng, fact and fictionI also got myself a new computer chair as the old one..."
I came across this film on Pétain, when looking up the 1937 World Fair, in Paris. For me it was in relation to the positioning of the German, USSR and Spanish pavilions, and what they were trying to portray, about their own national identities at the time, for my blog. Anyway it might be of interest to you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkHT...
Robert wrote: "Did Wilson ever suggest that he would intervene in Vietnam? The Cartoon History of Britain has an image of an aircraft rigged as a flying Dove of Peace-- the head of the dove looks remarkably like ..."I don't remember what the rhetoric was, but you judge people by their actions. Wilson was PM. The UK did not send troops to Vietnam. (Possibly other assistance was offered or provided.)
The genius of Harold Wilson was to keep both wings of the Labour party onside - no easy task, as you will know if you've paid attention to the recent ructions with Corbyn on one side and Starmer on the other. Certain elements would prefer the purity of promising some sort of paradise (only to lose elections), whereas others prefer the pragmatism of setting their sights lower but gradually improving things. I'd like to see more ambition from Starmer, but recognise that the Tories ran the economy into the ground, and there won't be any quick or easy fixes.
Mod
I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encountering Jackson Lamb back in his Berlin days.
Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Finished two very satisfying reads In Light of India by Octavio Paz and Gelignite by William Marshall. India and Hong KOng, fact and fictionI also got myself a new computer chair as ..."
thanks tam!
my opinion on Petain is unlikely to change, he allied himself with a murderous criminal regime and let them and his goons pursue violent, criminal policies. Whether he was fading into senility may become clearer the more i read...
Gpfr wrote: "3 hot days to come here — 31°-33°, then storm and back down. I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encountering Jackson Lamb back in his Berlin days."
24c here but feels warmer as the mercury hasnt passed 20c for over a month...
AB76 wrote: "Finished two very satisfying reads In Light of India by Octavio Paz and Gelignite by William Marshall. India and Hong KOng, fact and fictionI also got myself a new computer chair as the old one..."
Have you seen the film The Eye of Vichy? The Vichy years, as they were seen in French cinemas. Addresses from Petain at the New Year, documentaries on clothing and manufacture in a time of shortages, Heydrich visiting Vichy, the training of the Milice, and so on...
Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Finished two very satisfying reads In Light of India by Octavio Paz and Gelignite by William Marshall. India and Hong KOng, fact and fictionI also got myself a new computer chair as ..."
i must look that up, thanks
Jacksons book has started with his usual high standards and the strange circus at Sigmaringen in the last months of the war. All the Vichy traitors getting only badly in a huge castle in SW Germany. Petty jealousies alongside some intellectual lectures, Bach recitals(by traitor musicians) with SS and Gestapo lurking in the background
Gpfr wrote: "3 hot days to come here — 31°-33°, then storm and back down. I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encountering Jackson Lamb back in his Berlin days."
Thanks for that - I'll definitely read this one.
It's the warmest day of the year here so far - we even had lunch outside - a sort of belated celebration of the election results in France and the UK, so madame had a takeaway lobster (a small local restaurant has a brilliant chef) whereas mine was a much cheaper but also delicious veggie panini (brie, caramelised onion, veggie bacon).
I even had a pair of shorts on!
(It's supposed to rain tomorrow... :-(
scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "3 hot days to come here — 31°-33°, then storm and back down. I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encountering Jackson Lamb back in his Be..."
i'm inside and i wont be going outside till the sun goes down but its pleasent to let some warm air in. my house sees very little sun and is a splendid refuge, i am still suprised that seven weeks into Summer 2024, this is only the third day over 25c. Last summer, which was mostly cool after mid June,we had a good 15 days in June over 25c
scarletnoir wrote: "veggie bacon).I even had a pair of shorts on!."
If it is veggie it isn't bacon!!
And 🙈
AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "3 hot days to come here — 31°-33°, then storm and back down. I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encountering Jackson..."
Going to be cooler for you from tomorrow AB. Must admit I prefer the low 20C temperatures.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "3 hot days to come here — 31°-33°, then storm and back down. I'm reading and greatly enjoying Mick Herron's The Secret Hours. Encount..."
it should be but i find that day after real heat, it actually doesnt feel as cool as the temperatures suggest, the nights are warmer, which means the mornings arent as cool the next day and houses contain all that warm air but i am glad its what i call a childhood heatwave of 48 hrs as opposed to the 7 day 30c nerve-shredders we have got used in last decade
I'm really enjoying a Spanish civil war classic, translated from the Catalan, its Uncertain Glory by Joan Sales, mostly written in the 1950s but much revised and finally published in 1971. This translation is a new one by Peter BushThe novel starts in Summer 1937 on the Aragon front where Sales himself served as a Republican officer. Its territory which the Catalan troops find very different to their native Catalonia, sparse, underpopulated, backward and barely Catalan speaking its like another world. But like Catalonia, eastern Aragon was an Anarchist and Republican stronghold
Sales has an amusing and intelligent approach to what is weeks of nothing happening on the front, so we visit various characters in the Catalan regiment and their pasttimes, mostly to do with seducing the village women. The main character and narrator Lluis is concerned with the ransacked monastery where Anarchists murdered all the monks and day labourers, leaving the corpses of centuries old monks in comical positions in the gutted sacristy. Sales manages a gothic horror tinge without any ghouls in the time that Lluis spends among this bizarre audience of skeletons.
I'm only 90 pages in, so locations may change but so far i'm deeply impressed by this novel and its setting in rural Aragon. Since the Civil War, the area, especially Teruel Province has been losing people every decade till the 1980s.
Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberties in the UK. However i am also dissapointed that the judiciary decided these charges should apply in these cases. Prison is not a nice place to be for even 100 days on remand but to serve 4-5 years(although it will more like 2 years with time served) is shocking,
Sir Keir will not intervene and i get his point on this but Judges should look at the sentences they give out and deem them fair and proportionate. Community service or suspended sentences would have sufficed here.
AB76 wrote: "Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberties in the UK. However i am also dissapointed..."
Could they be made to pay for the damages/costs they have caused businesses or other people?
Can't actually see what this has got to do with the Tories. A lot of previous cases have usually been more lenient until now.
Bill wrote: "At Capitol Hill Books"
Well done.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberties in the UK. However i am also..."
the tories passed a lot of harsher laws in 2022 on protests, as they appealed to the populist base, many were restrictive of liberties to protest
AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberties in the UK...."But is it right that these protests can cause such disruption to people's live (missing urgent appointments at hospital, flights etc. or causing massively expensive disruption to businesses)? Where do you draw the line?
How do you balance the right to protest against the right not to have your life/work disrupted?
Not picking a fight, just asking. We'll wait and see if the govt. repeals them.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberti..."i guess i'm relaxed on disruption these protests cause, as i'm invested in the cause but i would prefer protests that march and make a noise, rather than block roads etc
i got caught in one a few years back in london, was letting in a plumber for a friend and he was delayed 3 hours in the traffic but i guess i wasnt on a deadline and i just sat back and read a book, went for a walk etc
giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "veggie bacon).I even had a pair of shorts on!."
If it is veggie it isn't bacon!!
And 🙈"
Well, indeed - but that's what they call it on the menu, so I don't know what else to say...
AB76 wrote: "Quite shocked at the jail sentences for the Just Stop Oil protestors, probably facilitated by the last dying breaths of the Tory govt to reduce liberties in the UK. However i am also dissapointed..."
Totally agree - this is disproportionate and cruel. Are you sure Labour won't change this? They really should - it's crazy.
Robert wrote: "Bill wrote: "At Capitol Hill Books"
Well done."
How do you two read the "OK, FINE" comment? Is that someone in the bookstore - who doesn't approve of the list - responding either to instructions from above, or requests from customers? It desn't seem to be a seal of approval!
FWIW, I have only read one book that is visible - 'Americanah' by Adichie - which IMO is her weakest to date - and only one other author - Munro - who to judge by the only book of hers I've read, is overrated. But we're all different.
scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "veggie bacon).I even had a pair of shorts on!."
If it is veggie it isn't bacon!!
And 🙈"
Well, indeed - but that's what they call it on the menu, so I d..."
🤣 I just find it amusing that vegetarian food gets called things like bacon, sausage, etc.
AB76 wrote: "i got caught in one a few years back in london, was letting in a plumber for a friend and he was delayed 3 hours in the traffic but i guess i wasnt on a deadline and i just sat back and read a book, went for a walk etc."But the plumber lost three hours work and had to reschedule other visits, which may have been emergencies.
Again I am not trying to pick a fight but whilst acknowledging the problems I wonder at the cost to our economy when our contribution to climate change** is miniscule compared with China, India and the US. And if they want us to switch to electricity for heating, away from gas, what is the electricity produced from? As an aside my plumber reckons it isn't going to happen.
Polite responses welcome.
** Just checked, it is below 2%
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i got caught in one a few years back in london, was letting in a plumber for a friend and he was delayed 3 hours in the traffic but i guess i wasnt on a deadline and i just sat back an..."I think production of electricity without burning fossil fuels is fairly mainstream and accepted at this point. England may not get enough sun to make solar feasible but it has plenty of other means. Plus, it can just lease solar farms in Northern Africa.The US has almost achieved it's goal from the Paris accords to achieving 50% of energy from renewable sources. Plus, how much longer will England and Europe be able to afford to get energy from hostile nations?
Paul wrote: " Plus, how much longer will England and Europe be able to afford to get energy from hostile nations?"Thanks Paul. Yes, nobody could see that being reliant on Russia for gas was not the best idea in the world could they? I believe Italy (where you are?) imports electricity from France and Switzerland. Wasn't there a big argument a few years ago when N. Italy suffered massive power outages and they were all blaming one another?
Apart from solar power, I guess it is pretty useful having a greater opportunity to supply hydro electric power. Isn't that pretty clean? Easier for the Alpine countries than England!
Isn't it nice that we can have these conversations without being moderated for being off topic?For AB76 - I am beginning to wish for a a short thunderstorm to get rid of the mugginess, and my resulting headaches.
giveusaclue wrote: "Paul wrote: " Plus, how much longer will England and Europe be able to afford to get energy from hostile nations?"Thanks Paul. Yes, nobody could see that being reliant on Russia for gas was not t..."
Yeah, I think England is in a uniquely disadvantaged position in terms of natural resources, which made Brexit a truly suicidal decision (but then again, that was the chief motivation for Empire so it's not like it was a surprise). It has plenty of wind and offshore ocean currents that it can harness though.
Mod
That's what I was going to write.
Concerning the Just Stop Oil protests, I agree with their aims and I think sentences have been disproportionate. However, I think the form their protests take can be counter-productive, because there's a risk that reactions are more about what they do to protest rather than their reasons for protesting.
Mod
The past 2 nights the temperature hasn't gone much below the mid-twenties which means nothing really cools down.
scarletnoir wrote: "How do you two read the "OK, FINE" comment? Is that someone in the bookstore - who doesn't approve of the list - responding either to instructions from above, or requests from customers? It desn't seem to be a seal of approval!"It's definitely not a seal of approval. The comment on the tweet was, "You all finally broke us with all your inquiries. Kneel before your god!"
Gpfr wrote: "Paul wrote: "England is in a uniquely disadvantaged position in terms of natural resources ... It has plenty of wind and offshore ocean currents that it can harness though...."That's what I was g..."
As a person who has spent 20 years or so, campaigning/writing about renewable energy, on the fringes of academia, and still currently produce a newsletter covering the issues around climate change, and sustainability, I do support peaceful protest, but I don't support 'Just Stop Oil' practises, on the whole, although I sympathise with them in principle. They seem to unerringly pick the wrong targets. To me they should be very selective, and aim their protests directly at the fossil fuel conglomerates and politicians/countries that are promoting global temperature rises.
Causing disruption and personal/financial/medical havoc to ordinary people who are just trying to go about their business is self-defeating and alienating to me. As a believer in what they are trying to do, it hurts that they are doing it so badly. But there is something about the 'convinced', that is self-righteous about some of them. I can also empathise with the young and can understand the anger of people who feel that they have no stake in the future, because of what previous generations have done in terms of trashing the environment, so I can understand their anger, and where it is coming from.
Still their ought to be a better way forward than the one that they are choosing, but this is where I hold governments, globally, to account, they are not setting up the mechanisms, and enabling the belief systems, that would get everyone on board with reducing the human impacts of climate change, which should be to the benefit of everyone, (except perhaps the multi-billionaires, dictators and their enablers) and all the other creatures that are dependent on us for a healthy biosphere, into the future. I also can't see what the benefits of the imprisonment of the perpetrators will be?... except the simplistic 'pour encourager les autres'. Both side should change, to my mind, and put some effort into some kind of dialogue, and action, on behalf of the future of us all...
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Ersatz TLS
Books mentioned in this topic
The Wound and the Bow: Seven Studies in Literature (other topics)Classics and commercials : a literary chronicle of the forties (other topics)
A Piece of My Mind: Reflections at Sixty (other topics)
Memoirs of Hecate County (other topics)
Patriotic Gore: Studies in the Literature of the American Civil War (other topics)
More...
but you guys are a few decades removed from.living in turf huts and painting yourselves blue again.
Ah shucks, Paul, and here was me thinking we were quite civilised, bit boshie as a nation and we do find certain foreign politicians amusing - we have some pretty potty ones here (but not in Trumps league) although common sense tends to prevail after we get bored with their stupidity.