its funny how they call this christian fiction... Showing 401-450 of 1,587

[Alec John]

But homosexuality isn't forced. If you're gay and you don't like woman, why torute them by making them be with a woman or go to hell?

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Alec wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Will wrote: "Popularity isn't an indicator of value, just look at Twilight."

So, why are you all fighting to put the Bible down? I think that, if anythi..."

Did He tell you it is not ? Has anyone - not human told you that the Bible is not true ? Where are you getting your information?

[Alec John]

From the Bible

[[deleted user]]

Alec wrote: "From the Bible"

Uhh.....I'm not sure I believe that you can possiblyi get this kind of information from the Bible . Mind telling me where you are getting it, and if you are really understanding such words?

It seems to me as if you are all condemning the Word of God simply because you don't agree with certain thigns. Can you possibly point out some of the lesser-known facts that you disagree with? And why ?

[Alec John]

Leviticus 18:22 (or 22:18) and keep reading. Thats what it says. Apparently they are going to hell because God wants them with someone who repulses them deeply.

[[deleted user]]

Do any of you get this? God is a loving Father Who - though it is not His wish - must watch as those He created for good do wrong. It isn't His will for this to happen. Satan has truly blinded man with his lies.

[Mary]

"It seems to me as if you are all condemning the Word of God simply because you don't agree with certain thigns. Can you possibly point out some of the lesser-known facts that you disagree with? And why ?"

The whole point of this conversation is that many of us do not believe the Bible is the Word of God. An all powerful, all knowing God would not make mistakes. Since we have pointed out multiple mistakes in the Bible, we can only assume it was not an infallible God who made them. What I find interesting is that those who do not believe the Bible is the Word of God are the ones who seem to know the most about it; have studied the bible and other religious texts and are able to point out inaccuracies. My question would be, why would someone who categorically defends the Bible as the Word of God not study the Bible?

[[deleted user]]

Ahem. I believe I've said this before. Not one of you cares, though. I had a TBI (Trauma Brain Injury). It greatly affected my memory. Have you ever gone from one room to another, but you can't remember what you were going to do/say? Happens to me frequently.

So, if I don't know everything there is to know about the Bible (impossible, anyway) then you really can't go saying I don't know anything about the Bible simply because I can't remember things.

I do recall that the truth shall make youi free

[Alec John]

Kendra wrote: "Alec wrote: "I think this series was very hypociritcal. They made people die and go ton hell when they shouldn't. Like the lesbian, who are they to say that she's going to hell? this book was just ..."

But who

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "Ahem. I believe I've said this before. Not one of you cares, though. I had a TBI (Trauma Brain Injury). It greatly affected my memory. Have you ever gone from one room to another, but you ca..."

Sorry Kendra. I did not read that. I am very sorry for your troubles. However, that does not give you license to tell people they are going to hell simply because they do not agree with your religious stance. I do not condemn you even though I am pretty sure you are wrong. I am happy for you that you have found something to comfort you in your life. What you have found comforting does not comfort me. Why would I adhere to a religion that not only does not sustain me, but at times angers me with its lack of equality and justice? I have no problem with any Christian practicing their faith. What I have a major problem with is those same Christians making some judgment about MY life and attempting to make public policy based on their religious beliefs. If I turned this argument back on you I could declare that those who cling to the legalistic portions of Christianity are the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees. Jesus despised the Pharisees and called them hypocrites and vipers. Would Jesus want hypocrites and vipers in heaven?

[[deleted user]]

Alec wrote: "But homosexuality isn't forced. If you're gay and you don't like woman, why torute them by making them be with a woman or go to hell?"

Ah. But that's where you/they have a choice . Be with a woman if you want or not . It isn't being with a person of the same sex that will help anything. God made us male and for a reason. So that we can be together - as in marriage . Why do you think there are both men and women? Do you really think it was just some cosmic accident?

And I don't believe that you are all wrong simply because I do not believe/not believe in the same way you do.

[Mary]

"Ah. But that's where you/they have a choice . Be with a woman if you want or not . It isn't being with a person of the same sex that will help anything. God made us male and for a reason. So that we can be together - as in marriage . Why do you think there are both men and women? Do you really think it was just some cosmic accident?"

So, do you believe that if a man or woman is infertile, they should not be able to marry? Since God ordained marriage for procreation, then those who cannot procreate should not be able to marry? Right? The Bible also says that if a man marries a woman who is divorced, he is committing adultery. Therefore, we should deny marriage licenses to all divorcees since if they marry we have to stone them. We are also supposed to stone to death a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night. How do people justify the biblical prohibitions against homosexuality, but then disregard the biblical prohibitions against every other sexual law?

[[deleted user]]

Actually, Mary, God ordained marriage so that man would not be alone. That's preciselyl why He created the woman (Eve)-> to keep the man (Adam) company.

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "Actually, Mary, God ordained marriage so that man would not be alone. That's preciselyl why He created the woman (Eve)-> to keep the man (Adam) company."

Actually Kendra, the bible says that marriage was created for both. Remember...be fruitful and multiply? The reason the bible was so concerned with procreation was because the Hebrews were supposed to be creating a new nation. For that they needed more people. A man who spilled his seed on the ground was not implanting that seed in a woman so a new little Hebrew could be born. A man who was lying with another man was not fulfilling his duty to impregnate a woman and increase the population. I think we are pretty much past the nation and population building now.

[[deleted user]]

Sorry, Mary, but I didn't really get any of that. And you've confused me about something else. Are you for or against God or not?

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "Sorry, Mary, but I didn't really get any of that. And you've confused me about something else. Are you for or against God or not?"

I do not think in terms of black or white. I believe in the possible existence of a supreme being. I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. How could I believe that the bible is the word of God when I know the politics that went into its canonization? Men VOTED on which books should be included. Revelations, which is the subject of the book in this thread almost did not make it into the bible. A pagan was in charge of canonization. How does any of this translate into the bible being the word of God? There is no disconnect between whether I am for or against God and whether or not I believe in the Bible because I do not believe God wrote it. Man did. The slavish defense of the Bible could be described as idolatry since people have elevated the Bible itself as an item of worship. That would go against the very book they defend.

[[deleted user]]

One question - for all concerned with this discussion: WHERE WOULD WE BE IF: God does not exist; had not created us; did not love us....

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "One question - for all concerned with this discussion: WHERE WOULD WE BE IF....."

If what?

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Kendra wrote: "One question - for all concerned with this discussion: WHERE WOULD WE BE IF....."

If what?"

Sorry. I edited my original post. IF......God didn't exist; if He hadn't created us; if He didn't love us; if He didn't forgive us.

[[deleted user]]

Uhm. You know - I think we may have been deserted by everyone else - I wondered why the title of this discussion was a question . That's what sparked my curiosity, really.

[Hazel]

Kendra wrote: "Actually, Mary, God ordained marriage so that man would not be alone. That's preciselyl why He created the woman (Eve)-> to keep the man (Adam) company."

heh, in the earlier stories, god created Lilith at the same time as he created Adam, fromt he same soil he created Adam from. However, when Lilith expected to be treated equally and wouldn't be subjugated, Adam complained, and God expelled Lilith from Eden. He then created Eve using Adams rib to symbolise womans subserviance to man.

Lilith was then cursed by god to become a demon, and she had sexual relations with the archangel Sameal, and produced children. So, if we want to avoid incestuous explanations of who cain and seth marry and have children with, it must be these half demon-half angel children of Lilith and Seth....

Oh, and homosexuality, its genetic, there's no choice. ANd if god made us, and made our genes, then he made people homosexual. You know, there are over 1000 species that display homosexuality, but only one species that displays homophobia.

[Hazel]

marriage, as endorsed by the bible:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...

[[deleted user]]

Satan - through Adam - brought sin/imperfection into the world. Why do you think there are so many problems nowadays? You'd think that if they didn't exist, then God wouldn't have allowed me to have this TBI. But He did. Why? I don't know what He was thinking at the time. I know that I don't like being so helpless - a literal "handicap" - but I believe that God is with me through all of it .

There's nothing that I can do about my physical condition except my best to keep myself from losing control of myself. I have a terrible temper nowadays, so that isn't easy to do. But when I place my troubles in God's hands - His mighty, all-capable hands , then I feel/do better.

[Hazel]

IF......God didn't exist; if He hadn't created us; if He didn't love us; if He didn't forgive us.

I'm sorry, but thats begging the question. You have started with a conclusion, and thus the question is leading to exploring that conclusion.

That shouldn't be the way you do it.

The question should be "how did we get here?", that opens up the floor to all the different ideas that can be explored. So, we could discuss the creation stories of thousands of different religions, and describe each story, we could then show that there is no evidence for the veracity of any of these stories. We can then move to discussing abiogenesis (not my strong point), and then onto evolution by natural selection, with some nods to sexual selection and genetic drift. We could show you all the evidence that has been built for these theories, and then we would reach the conclusion that from the evidence available, that it is the scientific explanation that has more support, and that should be accepted as the best current explanation for where we are.

INstead of me essentially rewriting reams of material on these scientific explanations, heres abiogenesis for beginners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDd...

The process of evolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_RXX7...

The evidence for evolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w57_P...

[Hazel]

Kendra wrote: "Satan - through Adam - brought sin/imperfection into the world. Why do you think there are so many problems nowadays? You'd think that if they didn't exist, then God wouldn't have allowed me to..."

satan brought sin into the world? But satan is a lesser being than god is he not? If satan manages to pull these evil acts off, this leaves us with some interesting conclusions:

1)god is not omnipotent or omniescince, and cannot prevent satans acts

and/or

2) satan is a more powerful being than god, and god cannot prevent his actions

or

3) god endorses satans actions, and is thus responsible for the actions of the lesser being that he created, and is capable of controlling.

[[deleted user]]

Once again, I tell you that I do not know everything ....what I have learned it ath God allowed Satan some free rein. I repeat, I do not know why God allowed it. All I do know is that He did.

I do know that God is coming back. He will come to redeem His people.

[Hazel]

You say that you were taught that god allowed satan some free reign, ipso facto, god must be responsible for what satan does. If satan is on a "reign" at all, that god is "holding", then god is the master of satan, and like I would be responsible for any destructive behaviour a dog I own displays, so god is responsible for any behaviour that satan displays.

I am simply extrapolating logically from what you're saying here.

Watch the youtube vids I linked to, if you feel you'll have trouble remembering them (I sympathise, I have a hideously bad memory due to a traumatic experience in my childhood), then have a pen and notebook ready, and pause and rewind if needed. It works for me.

[[deleted user]]

You say that my beliefs are not plausible. How are yours any more veritable? What about your beliefs is more believable than my own? I have physical evidence
I'm sure you will all say that you do, and not myself. I have yet to see anything that is not disprovable.

[Hazel]

what physcial evidence do you have? Is it verifiable.

I don't work on beliefs as such, I work on verifiable, and falsifiable (look it up, it won't mean what you think) facts. Watch the videos I linked.

Science doesn't work by being disprovable, it works by collecting evidence to support a theory, the more evidence, the stronger the theory, if someone then finds evidence that reduces the support to a theory, that is then taken into account, and the theory is modified, or even scrapped, as needed. So far, for the example of evolution, all the evidence supports the theory of evolution, and each investigation that is done simply finds more evidence that strengthens the theory. Evolution is now scientific fact because of the amount of evidence for it. I don't need to believe it, because I know it is fact.

[Hazel]

oh, by the way, the simple answer to your leading question about where we would be if god didn't exist, is exactly where we are now, because god doesn't exist, and this is where we are.

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "oh, by the way, the simple answer to your leading question about where we would be if god didn't exist, is exactly where we are now, because god doesn't exist, and this is where we are."

That's sad. :(
How would you explain all of the miraculous things that have happened - both in the distant past, the more recent past, and even today - without believing in God?

[Hazel]

its not sad, I'm a freer and much happier person without an imaginary father figure breathing down my neck. Its also not sad because the evidence shows that its the most likely position of the universe, that there is no god.

which miraculous things?

[[deleted user]]

How do you explain people recovering from terminal illnesses? They believe in God, medecine is not working to do more than help them get through the day, and the doctors and medical personnel have given up. So....how would you explain that? Miracle

[[deleted user]]

Grr. I can't seem to get the hang of the whole bold or italic thing.

Oh, there we go.

[Hazel]

Well, first, I'd look at the remission rates for the illness. The body is capable of healing itself. And if I were unable to explain why such a thing happened, than I wouldn't instantly attribute it to a supernatural source, I would simply say "we don't know, maybe one day we will, the scientists are working on it".

its sloppy thinking to see something amazing happen, and say "miracle". Its much better to then get inspired to research into why it happened and find the real, completely natural reason for it. Which is what scientists do.

Where, in your mind, do miracles come from? Is god the source of these miracles?

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "Well, first, I'd look at the remission rates for the illness. The body is capable of healing itself. And if I were unable to explain why such a thing happened, than I wouldn't instantly attribute i..."

That's disappointing to hear. I'm sorry.

[Hazel]

why is it dissapointing to hear that I actually engage my mind into working something out, rather than using the "its a miracle sent by god" cop out? That basically means that you're not interesting in knowing how it really works. How can you be that incurious?

And really, if god performs a miracle to save someone froma terminal illness, why does he do it for so few of them? Why are there people dying from starvation? Why are their children going blind before the age of 5? These people aren't evil people, so why do they suffer, while people think that because a few people survive something that hundreds/thousands of others don't survive that its a miracle? Where are the miracles for the people who are really suffering in the world? The patient survival rate for terminal lung cancer is 3%, why does the miracle only happen for that 3%?

[[deleted user]]

Oh. So, you're saying that my own surivival is not miraculous?

Perhaps if you had/have suffered something that can kill you, you'd better understand. I'm not saying I want you to go through something like that - not at all - but it's hard to understand some people when you haven't experienced the same thing they have.

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "I do know that God is coming back. He will come to redeem His people.
"

No you do not KNOW it. You think or believe he is, but you do NOT know it. Let me ask you another question. What if you had been born to a mullah or a rabbi instead of a Christian pastor? Do you think that you would have gone against the religion of your father to accept Christianity?

[[deleted user]]

THE DOCTORS told my parents that I would never, ever improve past being a vegetable - a person who simply laid in bed all day long. I did nothing for myself. I couldn't talk; I couldn't walk' I couldn't even eat normally. I had a feeding tube that they injected liquid food and my pills through. And communicate? I couldn't, really.

[Hazel]

Yes, kendra, I;m saying your survival is not miraculous, I'ms saying that you were looked after by a good team of specialist doctors, who ensured that you got the best treatment that they could provide. If you went and checked the records for the day the doctors saved your life, I would not doubt that several people died in that self same hospital, and also that other people survived and lived on that same day. To claim your survival is a miracle vastly underrates the number of other survivals of life threatening conditions that occur. It also implies that the people who died did not deserve a miracle.

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Kendra wrote: "I do know that God is coming back. He will come to redeem His people.
"

No you do not KNOW it. You think or believe he is, but you do NOT know it. Let me ask you another question...."

Do you believe that God does not exist? Obviously, that's where yoiu stand - you've told me as much.

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Kendra wrote: "I do know that God is coming back. He will come to redeem His people.
"

No you do not KNOW it. You think or believe he is, but you do NOT know it. Let me ask you another question...."

Yes, I do believe that - if I was not raised in a Christian home, and I saw someone else living a Christian life, I would have accepted Christ, regardless of whether my parents are Christians or not.

[Hazel]

Bullshit, your upbringing would have been so different, that you would have considered Christianity a false religion. You seem incapable of objective thought.

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "Yes, kendra, I;m saying your survival is not miraculous, I'ms saying that you were looked after by a good team of specialist doctors, who ensured that you got the best treatment that they could pro..."

Ah, but that's where I can tell you in all honesty that you are wrong. The doctors had given up. They didn't think I'd improve much at all.

But my parents never gave up, they continued praying and asking God to heal me completely. You know what happened? I did

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "Do you believe that God does not exist? Obviously, that's where yoiu stand - you've told me as much.
"

Kendra...show me ONE post where I said God does not exist. I have never said that. I said I do not know and that I believe in the possibility of a supreme being. Do not put words in my mouth. There is a difference between not believing in (a)God and not believing the Bible is the word of a god.

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "

"incapable", huh? I have seen and heard about so many different religions in the world. Not one of them could answer my questions - all of them.

Are you telling me you were raised in a Christian home? If so, and if you turned your back on God, then it was your choice - completely NOT their fault.

[Mary]

Kendra wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kendra wrote: "I do know that God is coming back. He will come to redeem His people.
"

No you do not KNOW it. You think or believe he is, but you do NOT know it. Let me ask you a..."

Oh please. At least be honest about it. You are taking what your father told you to believe at face value because he is your father. If you would not even read any information about the religion you were raised up in, why would you go out and read up on any other religion?

[Hazel]

so? You weren't in receipt of a miracle, your body healed itself, its a well observed and recorded phenomenon. I assume you had machines keeping you alive? No amount of praying would have helped you heal if they had been unplugged. I suspect that where you say the doctors gave up, that what happened is they did all they could, and said "now we wait and see, we have done all we can, it may be enough to save her". This still brings us back to the doctors saving you. the doctors started the healing process, helped it along the way, and your body was able to continue, still no god there, still no miracle. The fact that you still have problems is indicative that you aren't and never will be fully healed. Why would god leave you with problems?

The praying makes no difference, studies have been done. In fact some show that praying makes the patient worse, not better, as they get added stress to perform and get better quicker.

And still, we come back to why you? And not the person in the proverbial next room who had people praying for them too, yet they died?

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "so? You weren't in receipt of a miracle, your body healed itself, its a well observed and recorded phenomenon. I assume you had machines keeping you alive? No amount of praying would have helped yo..."

I am not saying that questions do not arise when this happens. God has a plan. I do not know what His plan is - not fully - but it's His plan, and if He wants to do things in a way that I find questionable, qho am I to argue?