its funny how they call this christian fiction... Showing 1,401-1,450 of 1,587

[Will]

If it's not supposed to make sense, then I'm not going to blindly accept it. If a book tells me I'm a sinner and that there is a God I have to believe in to not be punished, then I'm going to require empirical evidence, or at least a logical argument that's persuasive. Yahweh isn't the only deity that's worshiped. The same burden of proof lies on the other gods as well.

[Will]

Robert wrote: "What about a God who gives you the functional ability to follow His moral authority or not, and then punishs those who don't, do you not understand?"

So if I pointed a gun to your head and said love me and ask for forgiveness and follow my authority, or else... this is just?

[Robert]

You don't have any authority Will, you're a nonentity at present, just smoking dope and living in your mother's basement.

[Will]

So might makes right? Got it.

[Robert]

See you losers around - if you'll stop swordfighting with Satan you might get somewhere in life.

[Will]

Take a bow, Robert.

[Mary]

Will wrote: "Take a bow, Robert."

Yep...as the thread's biggest dick.

[Rod]

It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first started reading it.

[Glenn]

Rod wrote: "It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first started reading it."

Goodness! Somebody actually discussing the book! Quite refreshing, instead of all the ones just trotting out the petty predjudices. What was the original question again? "It's funny how theyoo call this Christian fiction." It's just a label that someone attached to it. So what? And then the hate-mail erupted. It's a novel, it's fiction. Enjoy it; don't enjoy it. And no matter what your personal beliefs, get over yourself. lol.

[Shanna]

Glenn wrote: "Goodness! Somebody actually discussing the book!"

Not really a thread started to discuss the supposed virtues of the novel, though, is it?

[Glenn]

Shanna wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Goodness! Somebody actually discussing the book!"

Not really a thread started to discuss the supposed virtues of the novel, though, is it?"

You're right. And it wasn't started to engender hate-mail either. Or I don't think it was. And yes, it is funny how they call this Christian fiction. But we do so love labels, don't we?

[Jeffery]

Glenn wrote: "Rod wrote: "It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first started reading it."

Goodness! Some..."

I agree with you Glen. When people started talking about this book, the fangs and talons come out! Hissssss! That is why when I talk to people, I refuse to bring up religion or politics(unless, of course, they bring it up). Why can we not talk about books and not be labeling everything or critcizing people. Grow up! Geeez!

[Glenn]

Jeffery wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Rod wrote: "It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first started reading it."

..."

Thanks Jeffery. Problem is what I call the "I can't be wrong" syndrome. It is extremely difficult for many people even to consider that the other guy might be correct. What many people do not realise is that it is a blessing (I'm not meaning this word in a religious sense!) to be able to be wrong and admit it sometimes. Once you openly acknowlecge you are or even might be wrong, you free yourself from the enormous burden of defending your opinion to the death and all the frustrated anger that goes with it. And the first time you tell someone, "you know, you may be right," is a tremendous release. It's like opening medicine for a closed mind.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Ok, so, I'm all wrong to be a woman wanting to live like a man. I'll go back to the kitchen, lay on the floor and take my panties off, ready for impregnation and a lifetime of washing the dishes and sweeping the floors. Heaven forbids that I leave the house or learn to read or write or speak up in front of men or defend myself against his punches or loaning me to other men or selling my daughters at age 9 for sex and housework. I believe Jesus will come and stomp and burn to death all women who dare to not want marriage or babies or disagree with any man.

Gee, so happy to be a happy convert to The Lord! My mind has been opened! Being closed minded actually gave me ideas religion was evil towards women. I was so wrong! Having an open mind now, I will welcome being buried up to my neck and stoned to death if I have sex with any man except my husband, who can have sex with all the women he wants, including spoils of war, little girl slaves he bought!

Open minded = accepting my role as a sex slave, chained up inside one house, and utterly under the control of society and every man, making 12 babies without any say so, with no will, power, authority, money, freedom of my own whatsoever.

Thanks for that Glenn and Jeffrey!

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Jeffery wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Rod wrote: "It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first started reading it."

..."

The world is killing people and raping women because of books like this!

[Glenn]

aPriL meows 'n growls graphomanically wrote: "Ok, so, I'm all wrong to be a woman wanting to live like a man. I'll go back to the kitchen, lay on the floor and take my panties off, ready for impregnation and a lifetime of washing the dishes an..."

April, you know what I was saying in my comment was that you may be right in everything you state. I was asking that everyone respect YOUR standpoint. BUT I was also saying that you should accept that you are NOT always right. And neither is anyone else. And I was also saying that this is not necessarily the correct forum to vent the arguments that you and your opponents are expressing. You are not answering the original question asked, you are using this as a vehicle for venting hate.

[Glenn]

aPriL meows 'n growls graphomanically wrote: "Jeffery wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Rod wrote: "It's years since I read this book. Even if I wasn't a person of faith I would have found it to be a ripping story. Couldn't put it down once I first starte..."
The world is killing people and raping women because of books like this!

Only in cloud cuckoo land.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Only in my actual life.

[Allison]

Geezer wrote: "but it was written to scare the pants off of anyone that believes in Revelations.

Every generation has a fear of/desire for the Apocalypse. Somehow its implied that death and destruction will giv..."
It wouldn't scare any Christian. I don't believe the in pretrib rapture but I read the books and enjoyed the plot - but, and more to the point, there were a lot of good lessons for any Christian in the examples of the babes in Christ and how they reacted to adverse circumstances.

[Allison]

Dave wrote: "Karen wrote: "What exactly is your beef about on this Dave?"


I simply do not believe the claims from evangelicals about Christian charity and compassion when the large majority of them are raging..."
Christians are simply sinners who were smart enough to accept God's gift of life through Christ - we aren't perfect and we make mistakes in judgment as well as the rest of humanity. We are learning to trust God to remake us into his image, but he has a lot of work to do in each of our lives and he isn't a genie - he is almighty God and knows how to do the job well. He isn't dealing with dolls. We have free will from start to finish. We do know one thing though: no one is perfect and no opinion is paramount. Your opinion may be the right one; and then again,it may be wrong. No one is perfect.

[Rod]

Perhaps a lot of these issues would be answered if those involved in the discussion went back to the actual source of the controversy and read the whole book cover to cover in context, and an open mind. It may mean reading it several times over a long period of time. I'm not guaranteing any answers, but it may help.
P.S. I'm referring to the Bible, not 'Left Behind'!
Love to all.

[Mary]

Rod wrote: "Perhaps a lot of these issues would be answered if those involved in the discussion went back to the actual source of the controvercy and read the whole book cover to cover in context, an open mind..."

And perhaps we have done that.

[Jeffery]

I have read the bible from cover to cover TWICE. I guarantee anyone that after reading the bible through they will also become an atheist(like me), if they read with an open-mind, of course. I do not want to go over again what the bible condones or supports as most of you already know. So, I will not waste my time doing that...I feel so liberated not having to follow rules and "commandents". I am not saying that we should feel free to commit all types of atrocity toward your fellow humankind. The Golden Rule is the key(it is not in the bible).

[Robert]

Oh, Jeffrey, two whole times! I'm so impressed! By then you must understand so much and be so wise! Orthodox Jews who memorize the Torah should bow at your feet. Theologists who tear it apart line by line and read hundreds of supporting scholarly documents to examine it from every angle their entire life should kowtow at your altar. Yes, I'd be an atheist too, after all that work you did. What a scholar! I don't know if anyone is worthy of being on the same board as you.

[Jeffery]

Okay, maybe I should clarify my reading the bible twice. I think from a fiction standpoint, it is a pretty good book. I used to go to church and the church had a bible reading schedule and I read through it in a year. I did that for two years. I have since then not picked it up since I left and became a free thinker. I thought I should mention that before the fangs and talons come out!

[Robert]

Jeffery - many of us believe the Holy Bible to be the Word of God - thus, assuredly not fiction. If the Truths in Scripture are too hard for you to live up to, as they are for many, then one has to fashion one's own code of conduct. This isn't "free thinking" - it's adjusting your philosophy to match your less than stellar behavior.

[Maria]

Don't know whether or not it's the "key" to anything, Jeffery, but the Golden Rule is in the Bible at Matthew 7:12.

“In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

You obviously missed that on your twice reading.

[Mark]

Geezer wrote: "but it was written to scare the pants off of anyone that believes in Revelations.

Every generation has a fear of/desire for the Apocalypse. Somehow its implied that death and destruction will giv..."

Hmm if revelation is true then the book should scare the pants off you.

[Mark]

Dave wrote: "Karen wrote: "What exactly is your beef about on this Dave?"


I simply do not believe the claims from evangelicals about Christian charity and compassion when the large majority of them are raging..."

Are you deliberately trying to be provocative. Of course there will be some evangelicals who mess up. They are humans that's why. You have no evidence for what you say it's just your own view to which you are entitled.
I will say that in my experience the love of god can work wonders in human relationships. I am sorry you have not experienced it........ YET.

[Jeffery]

I have read Matthew 7:12 twice through my reading, but that is also the Golden Rule and that was around BEFORE the bible was ever thought up!

[Jeffery]

Robert wrote: "Oh, Jeffrey, two whole times! I'm so impressed! By then you must understand so much and be so wise! Orthodox Jews who memorize the Torah should bow at your feet. Theologists who tear it apart line ..."

Yes, Robert, theologists should bow to me because of my knowledge. I think I know more than all of them!

[Maria]

Jeffery you said in post 1446 " The Golden Rule is the key(it is not in the bible."

Then you say in post 1453 "I have read Matthew 7:12 twice through my reading, but that is also the Golden Rule and that was around BEFORE the bible was ever thought up!"

Whether or not it was around before the Bible was written - who knows. But it is in the Bible. You said so yourself.

[Robert]

Jeffrey - were you mad at birth or did you pick it up somewhere along the way?

[Giansar]

I just have finished the Underground Zealot trilogy. Not as good as Left Behind but way better than Babylon Rising. I think Jenkins is much better in this kind of confluence of hi-tech sf with ancient fantasy stuff. The finale was a little to bombastic for me and I found the narrative irksome at times but I think it is mostly because there is always in the back of my mind the awareness that there are people out there who take this kind of literature seriously.

[Jeffery]

Robert wrote: "Jeffrey - were you mad at birth or did you pick it up somewhere along the way?"

Who said anything about me being mad! I am not mad at anything! Just because I do not believe in a god, doesn't mean I am mad. I can't be mad at something that I don't think is there, right?

[Maria]

I think in this case, Robert meant "mad" as in "crazy".

[Jeffery]

Well, I am not crazy either! Thank you for clearing that up Maria! I have mentioned in a previous post, anytime religion is brought up, the fangs and claws come out. Is no one entitled to their own opinion anymore? I feel that religion was crucial during the dark ages, but the world has now moved on and grown up(for the most part). Most of the rest of the world has become secular, but the United States is still stuck in the Dark Ages and the Dark Ages religion!

[Maria]

Jeffery - I don't know if you're crazy or not, but that's how I read Robert's comment!

I don't know if humans in general will ever "grow out" of religion. Some people need validation - the feeling that they are being blessed or helped by a power greater than their own.

Someone/something to thank when things go well and to beg for help during trials. Also to blame when bad things happen - because it could never be their own fault, right?

Anyway, as long as people keep it to themselves, fine. If it helps them cope and not curl up in a fetal position and die, then great.

I heard a quote, maybe on another thread that said "it's not God that bothers me so much, but his fan club is driving me crazy!"

[Glynda]

It is just as easy for me to believe that we were created by a greater power, God, as it is for me to believe that "poof" or "bang" and this, meaning life as we know, came out of nothing. I am 67 and I experienced a lot of good and a lot of bad, but the one thing that has been consistent In my life has been the assurance that God has had "my back" through all of it.
It is my opinion that atheists wouldn't work so hard to convince Christians that we are wrong if that was the case. What would be the point? However, saying that, I strongly believe that God wants all of us to have the freedom to decide what we believe. Although, I do feel sorry for the ones that do not explore their options.
I loved the "Left Behind" series. As Christian fiction it gave us a picture of what could happen, and a darn good one, in the last days after Jesus comes and takes the saved to heaven (or a safe place) during the apocalypse. (When John wrote Revelations, I am sure he was challenged to describe what he saw in his vision. Just as we are challenged to interrupt his account.)

[Will]

Inserting a god only leads to more questions. According to scripture, God created man from dirt and woman from man's rib. You are saying "poof" and everything is created you can't buy, but that's the hypothesis offered by religion. Poof, god did it... Not an answer.

[Glynda]

You missed the point Will. I did not give an answer. I gave my choice. There is no definitive answer as far as logical man is concerned. Nothing about our beginnings is logical. By the way, "dirt" is full of the "things" that scientist say we are made of.

[Will]

I did not miss the point. Is it not according to scripture that god spoke and "poof" created the Universe? The Big Bang does not say the Universe came from nothing. It has NO say on what "from" would entail. It only describes the Universe as it is based on observable facts. It does not deal with what may or may not have been "before." That's why saying "God dun it" isn't an answer or even a logical "choice." You are making a claim and inserting God where our knowledge fails. This is described as the God of the Gaps argument and is a logical fallacy.

[Maria]

Glynda - you say that God had your back during your hard times. I'm sure that your belief that a power greater than your own was in play helped you through. Have you ever thought that maybe that strength came from within you - you had it all the time, it just took faith in something else to bring it to the surface.

The book of Revelation (not RevelationS - plural) is a symbolic book that everyone interprets differently. Some religions take some of it literally (like the Left Behind crowd) and some symbolically (like only 144,000 people going to heaven).

I say, whatever lets you sleep easy - if belief that God has your back makes you stronger, then it cannot be a bad thing.

As I said, though, people's personal beliefs don't bother me, what bothers me is when they bombard me with them, and act as if they are the only truth and everyone else's beliefs are wrong.

[Glynda]

Ok, so Revelation doesn't have an "s". But I must tell you, correct grammar and spelling will not get you anywhere.
And, Will, I did not say God dun it. I said it is just as easy for me to believe. And if one Christian says God did it, we have dozen atheists jumping up and down trying to make us look stupid in our belief. What you can't stand is the fact that you can't shake us from our stand regardless of how much you try to contradict us. Remember, it is a choice.
Nobody is twisting your arm. The government will not send the army to lock you up. Christians are free to speak their mind, just as you do. If I don't like what people say, I leave.

[Mary]

Maria wrote: "As I said, though, people's personal beliefs don't bother me, what bothers me is when they bombard me with them, and act as if they are the only truth and everyone else's beliefs are wrong. "

Amen Maria!

[Maria]

Hi Mary! I wondered where you've been lately!

[Mary]

Maria wrote: "Hi Mary! I wondered where you've been lately!"

I've been sick as a dog, but am on the mend now. :0)

[Maria]

Glad to hear it! Love to read your comments!

[Will]

Glynda wrote: "Ok, so Revelation doesn't have an "s". But I must tell you, correct grammar and spelling will not get you anywhere.
And, Will, I did not say God dun it. I said it is just as easy for me to believ..."

Believe what you like, I was correcting you on your mistake that the Big Bang Theory says "poof" and everything came out of nothing.

You all do a pretty good job of contradicting yourselves, but it is fun to point out.

If religious people were satisfied with keeping their beliefs to themselves and out of government, you wouldn't be hearing from so many outspoken atheists. Religious people can very much be shaken from their beliefs (I was one) and the wordwide trend in religiosity is drastically declining in developed nations.

[Maria]

Yes, religious people can be shaken from their "stupor" - as athiests can definitely become believers... I've seen both happen. It really shouldn't be anything but a personal matter, but alas, it isn't - and won't be.