Left Behind
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its funny how they call this christian fiction...
message 1252:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Feb 16, 2014 10:57PM)
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When a religious person tells me they hate abortion, but they will drive someone to an abortionist who wants one, I'll back off and say live and let live. When every woman who wants an abortion can get one, I'll back off and say live and let live. Right now, the religious are NOT practicing live and let live.When kids can go to a public school in ALL school districts and learn about evolution and if they want, learn about Creationism in church only, I'll say live and let live.
When girls are not forced to attend 'Purity Balls', I'll say live and let live.
When women are not forced into child marriages at age 3, and forced to have sex at 9, and bear children at 12, I'll say live and let live.
When women are permitted to sign legal contracts and earn money and drive cars whenever they want to under religious governments, I'll say live and
let live.
I'm 60 years old and here in America, not only were women heavily discriminated against because of religious traditions and beliefs leaking into government laws only 35 years ago, but the gains that have been made are being taken away by states assimulating religious beliefs into government laws!
So nice to imagine that religion is not already back in governance and in law making in America.
Your rancid mouth(typing) is not helping bring your point across.
Xox wrote: "Glenn wrote: "I really must commend you, Xox. A very brief, rhetoric free message that conveyed exactly what you meant, no repitition and without a single expletive! Well done."Forgot. Fuck Jesus."
XOX - Not here! Please take this elsewhere and respect all posters here
Xox - ; D
message 1256:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Feb 17, 2014 05:09PM)
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I agree with Xox's statements.Again, most of you veer off into worrying about rude language.
Misdirection. It's like worrying if I buttoned my collar, when the house is burning down.
You all do it because it works. Well fuck you all.
Why don't you worry about the future of your daughters if they want to be as strong and independent as men, but they have to live at home and pregnant because religious rules are sneaking back into the legal system?
Why don't you worry that your gay son might be hurt by religious haters?
Who the fuck cares if someone says fuck in your hearing or eyeballs?
I don't. I care about religious rules confining me under the weight of society and the law. I hated that.
Xox wrote: "Shanna wrote: ""Image cannot load."
Sorry Xox I'll try again blasted computer
Xox wrote: "aPriL MEOWS often with scratching wrote: "So nice to imagine that religion is not already back in governance and in law making in America. "
Not the intention of the founding fathers. It was/is ..."
I'm quite sure that there are plenty of al Qaeda types who are kind to their neighbors and love their kids & their cats. It won't stop them from enforcing their religious beliefs by violence though. The power of religious fanaticism is partly in making otherwise sensible & nice individuals do horrifying things.
message 1261:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Feb 17, 2014 08:45PM)
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Xdyj -Yeah, they love their young but religiously-defined wastes-of-breath child daughters so much they regret the necessity of locking on their bomb vests, but they DO try other things first, like marrying them off at age 9 for raping and servant work. The boys they actually love enough to keep for life, though. Its heartwarming how religion helps them define the value of their children.
Of course, if the boys are pretty, the local muslim leader will pay good money, unless they are orphans.
Sara wrote: "However, if it makes you feel any better, I do not consider most of Frank Peretti's books Christian fiction. Aside from his Piercing the Darkness and This Present Darkness, I wouldn't call any of..."
I wondered about this too. I read both This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness, and enjoyed both of them. Prophet was extremely slow, all the way through, but The Oath was extremely creepy, even though I understood it. Sifting through his books the other day, I noticed most of his later and latest books are like horror, and as much as I want to, I just can't bring myself to read too much horror, especially when discussing true demonic occurrences.
For the life of me I don't understand why people who are not Christians feel the need to read Christian literature, articles, or postings. It would stand to reason that if you dislike something so much, you'd just stay away. You'd never catch me reading some Muslim, Buddhist, or New Age literature, and then make a point of finding a group of them so I can bash them and tell them what they believe is crap. The fact that people find the need to "seek out" Christians for the purpose of telling them what they believe is wrong means we must be on to something!
message 1265:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Mar 29, 2014 11:39PM)
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Christians don't 'stay away'. What happened to the abortion clinics? Why are Christian people stopping the teaching of evolution and science in public schools? Christians want to force everyone to be Christians. It's Christians who are the bad guys. The rest of us have to defend ourselves against Christians who want to hurt, harm and abuse everyone. It's Christians stopping poor people from getting Healthcare. It's Christians who made the laws that forced women to marry young and have too many children and be unable to work and earn a living.
Only when secular people changed the laws in the 70's were women able to work and choose not to marry for support and be able to have sports teams. Even now, Christians are trying to change all of the laws back to forcing women to not go to college, stay locked up in kitchens and bedrooms and forced to have babies they don't want. Women without power or means to learn how to read and write and can't make money can only stand there and be beaten, tortured and raped, with no laws or police to help them. That's how it was in the early years of the USA until the 1970's.
I have no interest in living like that again, under the power and control of men, without being able to escape. Even my schools wouldn't let me take what are AP classes today because I was a female. My counselor told me, "what does a girl need college for?" When I wanted to take math science and a foreign language instead of cooking and sewing. The way the curriculum was set up, no woman could take the necessary classes for college. I lived in Seattle, Washington, USA. I had to get special permission to be able to take the 'boy's classes.
Christians are pure evil and have caused more wars and deaths of innocents than any other religion, although the Muslims are really close in murdering millions as well through time.
ROTFLOL!! Great to see we're so influential! We did ALL these things by ourselves. And let's not mention the fact that Christians are clumped together as one person! Amazing that EVERYONE is eligible to express their opinions...except us. And funny that Christians are weird for their beliefs in what others feel is non-existent, yet we are supposed to go with the guess (theory) of coincidence through "chance" happenings (big bang and evolution)...LOL!! If schools can't teach creation, why should they teach a scientific opinion that can never become fact because there is no proof...and never will be. That's why those things are called "theories." And abortion clinics are attacked by the rare few, who probably would not classify as true Christians, for the fact that they went to such extremes. Abortion is, however, murder, whether it's the 70's, 90's, or 2050's. I'm sorry you and others like you had to endure those things. I think it was a shame, and I'm glad that women can work if they want to today. I think it's great we can play sports, be in AP classes, go to college, vote, and all those other things we couldn't do before. I've done ALL of those things. But standing up for those things I believe when someone else attacks them...that's not forcing my views on anyone else. I have a Christian AND a human right to defend my beliefs...just like everybody else. I think lots of people are going to be in for a rude awakening one day. The book that started this whole discussion is fiction, after all, but simply gives the point of view of the authors who wrote it. You could kind of call it "based on a true story." I liked the book, and I believe there are events in it that WILL happen. That doesn't make me evil. It just makes me a Christian.
Adam wrote: "I'm an atheist and I've enjoyed these books so far. I've only made it through book 4 and the only complaint I have is that the characters spend far too much time crying and praying. Get on with i..."I also am an Atheist and I enjoyed this series very much. You do not have to be a Christian, Buddhist, etc. to not enjoy these books. I thought it was a very entertaining read, just like the bible is an enjoyable work of fiction.
Jeffery wrote: "Adam wrote: "I'm an atheist and I've enjoyed these books so far. I've only made it through book 4 and the only complaint I have is that the characters spend far too much time crying and praying. ..."Thank you for your humbleness and not slamming us. At least you're real.
message 1269:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Mar 30, 2014 03:33AM)
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No Christian can disbelieve the Bible. It sounds like some who think they are Christians are not. They cherry pick the ideas they want to believe and ignore the rules in the Bible they don't want to believe. They cannot possibly be accepted by their god.A true Christian woman is not allowed to read and write. Every one here calling themselves Christian and who is a woman is damned to hell. No woman is allowed any authority except to make babies. She cannot speak her mind or have any opinion.
If there is a heaven, hell, god, etc, as described by the Bible, no woman on this thread will be allowed into heaven. Cherry-picking is not acceptable, per Jesus.
Why do you think there are 'crazy' Christians? They actually are true Christians, following the Bible. The rest of you may be in for a surprise at the pearly gates.
Why do you think I can't ever be a Christian? I have a brain and enjoy thinking and working and having equal rights as men, I do not want a life for 90 years locked up in a kitchen and bedroom, raising children with my husband's other wives, slaves and concubines.
You cherry-pickers cherry-pick because that is the only way to make the Bible acceptable to be Christian. If the Bible is true, you 'free' women are kidding yourselves that you are Christian, and definitely won't be in heaven if it's all true what god and Jesus say about women in the Bible.
aPriL meows, scratches and growls wrote: "No Christian can disbelieve the Bible. It sounds like some who think they are Christians are not. They cherry pick the ideas they want to believe and ignore the rules in the Bible they don't want t..."Ummm....Not exactly sure where you get your ideas about Christianity from. On the one hand, you're correct. There are many Christians who bend the Word to fit their needs or situations. That's between them and God. They will have to answer for that. Besides, there are all types of people who are supposed to be part of certain doctrines who don't follow as they should. That's not exclusive to Christians.
However, nobody I know has slaves or concubines. Nobody is confined to their houses and forbidden to think. There were many women in the Bible who were very influential. Deborah was a judge at a time when it was the norm for only men to hold that title. Barak, who was a captain of the Israelite army refused to go into battle without her by his side because he trusted her judgement and faith. Esther was groomed to become queen, and eventually helped save her people while exposing the man who was supposed to be noble, but was trying to kill them. Proverbs 31 even talks about the virtuous woman, who not only took care of her household, but worked and brought money, as well as value into her home. Her husband loves her and her children call her blessed.
Those things you said are ideas some men of certain cultures or religions have come up with. The Bible says blessed is the man who finds A wife. He said nothing about wives. Those are made up ideas. In God's presence there is liberty, not slavery. But liberty doesn't mean just do any and everything you want just because you feel like it. But people who have self control live by that code also. That's just morally right.
I don't really know where you get your information, but perhaps you should actually KNOW someone who actually TRIES to live like a Christian, and stop focusing on the ones who don't. Really, it's not as bad and twisted as you have portrayed.
message 1271:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Mar 30, 2014 05:30PM)
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Liberty means: lib·er·tyˈlibərtē/
noun
1. the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or politics.
synonyms: independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, self-government, self-rule, self-determination
antonyms: tyranny
the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved.
2. the power or scope to act as one pleases.
"individuals should enjoy the liberty to pursue their own interests and preferences"
synonyms: freedom, independence, free rein, license, self-determination, free will, latitude
antonyms: constraint, slavery
Origin: late Middle English: from Old French liberte, from Latin libertas, from liber ‘free.’
Genesis 3:16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
Titus 2:4-5
Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
1. In the Bible's book of Deuteronomy it says that if a man marries a woman and then decides that he hates her, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they married. At that point her father must prove she was a virgin. (How is not explained.) If he can't, then the girl is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep.2. If you see a pretty woman among your captives and would like her for a wife, then bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can simply "let her go." (Deuteronomy)
3. If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." (Deuteronomy)
4. In the book of Esther the king apparently decrees a sex contest among young virgin women to see who can best please him. (There is debate on how.) He eventually chooses Esther. However, since women are viewed as inherently dirty, Esther must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. (Esther)
5. Paul points out in New Testament Romans that "the natural use" of women is to provide men with sex. (Romans)
6. Heaven is to be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men who have not been "defiled" by women. (RE 14:1-4) [One wonders how this squares with God's command to, "Be fruitful and multiply...(Genesis )]
7. A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's wife: "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine (wife); let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The women were subsequently ravished and killed. (JG))
8. In Exod. we see that it is permissible to sell one's daughter (but apparently not one's son) into slavery..
9. According to St. Jerome, "Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to be unclean." In Leviticus it states, "If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days...if she bears a female child she shall be unclean two weeks...."
10. "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died." (Judges)
11. Under God's direction, Moses' army kills all the adult males, but they mercifully just take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some women and children alive, he angrily says: "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Throughout Bible history God is said to demand that thousands, if not millions, of men, women and children be slaughtered. And they are.
12. A man has an obligation to produce a child with his brother's widow. If he refuses, his sister-in-law is to spit in his face in front of the elders. (Deuteronomy 25:5-9) And in case you are Jewish, you may be familiar with the Jewish prayer: "Blessed be the God who has not created me a heathen, a slave or a woman."
From the ACLU site:With increasing frequency, we are seeing individuals and institutions claiming a right to discriminate – by refusing to provide services to women and LGBT people – based on religious objections. The discrimination takes many forms, including:
Religiously affiliated schools firing women because they became pregnant while not married;
Business owners refusing to provide insurance coverage for contraception for their employees;
Graduate students, training to be social workers, refusing to counsel gay people;
Pharmacies turning away women seeking to fill birth control prescriptions;
Bridal salons, photo studios, and reception halls closing their doors to same-sex couples planning their weddings.
While the situations may differ, one thing remains the same: religion is being used as an excuse to discriminate against and harm others.
Instances of institutions and individuals claiming a right to discriminate in the name of religion aren’t new. In the 1960s, we saw institutions object to laws requiring integration in restaurants because of sincerely held beliefs that God wanted the races to be separate. We saw religiously affiliated universities refuse to admit students who engaged in interracial dating. In those cases, we recognized that requiring integration was not about violating religious liberty; it was about ensuring fairness. It is no different today.
Religious freedom in America means that we all have a right to our religious beliefs, but this does not give us the right to use our religion to discriminate against and impose those beliefs on others who do not share them.
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message 1277:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Mar 30, 2014 06:50PM)
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A Call to ACTION : Women, Religion, Violence and Power by Jimmy Carter, who talks about how religion is misused all over the world and the USA.He is a religious believer, mind you.
http://www.amazon.com/Call-Action-Wom...
All I can really say to you is I have li ber ty. And God's not going to send me to hell for being a woman, a free thinker, or participating in sports. Being subject to your husband does not mean being his slave or else God would not have called woman man's "help meet." That's in Genesis. Pretty much all those scriptures you gave were given for the situation at that time. The women in the church "at that time" were loud and out of order. That's why they were told not to speak...not for ALL women across the board. The brother in law who spilled his seed...that was a situation "at that time." God slaughtered millions of people who were pagan worshipers, and He can pretty much do that as God Almighty, whether we know the reason or not, because He's the Creator. The natural use of a woman is for her to have sex with a man, not another woman. Pretty plain and clear. You just quoted a lot of scriptures which YOU took out of context, whether intentionally or unintentionally, but that's ok. If we die as true Christians and nothing is there afterwards, we haven't lost anything. But what if we're right...
If you are right, you are a man's silent concubines/slave for eternity. Strictly a masochistic servant relationship, everyone's dog.I'm half Native American, a mixed-race Pagan. What are you gonna do? In the Bible, your god has already thrown me out with the trash. To most cult Christians, I'm an abomination, along with black people, brown people and yellow people, and all of the mixes thereof. So sad, yes? I'll never see your heaven, per the Bible, even if I was a believer. When I do, if there is an afterlife, in my pagan heaven, I get to run free with the animals, chat with fellow ghosts, drink, eat and be merry in equality, wind in my hair and grass under my feet. Since I adore science fiction, maybe I'll float among the stars, seeing the sights.
Anyway it ends up, your god's heaven is nothing but hell to me.
I just thought it was a poorly written book by two guys with limited to no writing talent.
Is it popular or was it popular? Sure.
Was it well written? No.
Is it popular or was it popular? Sure.
Was it well written? No.
Vita wrote: "For the life of me I don't understand why people who are not Christians feel the need to read Christian literature, articles, or postings. It would stand to reason that if you dislike something so ..."I did not dislike this book because it was Christian oriented. I disliked it because it was very poorly written. I loved the Christian allegorical tales of C.S. Lewis. I loved Catherine Marshall's book "Christy." I have also read almost every Chaim Potok and Leon Uris book printed and learned a great deal about Judaism in the process. I have also read quite a bit of Christian fiction that is just too sappy for my tastes. Jeanette Oke is one of those. There is some great Christian fiction out there. Unfortunately there is also a lot of dreck as well. How is one supposed to know what is good or bad without reading it?
I don't know. I guess you can't know about a book without reading it. So I have a question... If you read a bad book, is it a waste of your time?
I don't think there's an answer to that; or rather, everyone is likely to have a different idea of what would qualify wasted time.
Vita wrote: "I don't know. I guess you can't know about a book without reading it. So I have a question... If you read a bad book, is it a waste of your time?"Not necessarily. It makes me appreciate a good book even more.
message 1285:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Mar 31, 2014 10:32PM)
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When I read a bad book or a good book, it develops clarity within because I have to consider it. I think about it. I research it. If it doesn't make sense, or the writing is terrible, then I reject it. Sometime's its sole value is the fact I had to think about it and decide. Good or bad, I don't think it's a waste of time.I read this complete series because I have fundamentalists in my family who have taken me to their church and push their beliefs on me. I needed research on what they were being told...
Some of my relatives think the Apocalypse is coming very soon because of gay marriage. They also thought it was coming because Obama became President. They also think the new Healthcare plans will cause the Apocalypse. They think welfare, food stamps, social security and Medicare will cause the Apocalypse, and babies out of wedlock are evil, too. It's not about the poor, it's about stealing money from their pockets and bad behaviors. God takes care of the poor, after all (not that I've noticed). The reason they believe as they do is books like this and their minister. They read the passages of the Bible which 'prove' it. The bible verses seem very ambiguous and contradictory to me sometimes, but when that occurs, they rely on their religious literature and their peers in church. Books like this are also 'proof' - they wouldn't be written if not true. After all a man of god wrote it, and he can't lie or be wrong, right?
This series is one of the worst, under all of the criteria I use. But it put into words what my family members incoherently tried to tell me. I recognized the peculiar fictional stories that they don't think are fictional stories, but they think are the truth of the future, as foretold by the bible, probably tomorrow or next month or next year. They expect to be raptured.
Every huge earthquake or big plane crash or massive fire, in the world, if they find out about it, they are sure Jesus is there with his second coming coming (they can't find many American states on a map, much less other countries, I'm sure it's not quite prejudice involved, just blank incomprehension and ignorance or biblical warnings coming to pass; they see everything in terms of white American culture, they rarely are aware of other cultures) or god's justice, even if babies are tortured or killed, as an example to their parents. When Bush sent the troops into Iraq, they told me it was the beginning of the end of the world and Jesus would slay them Muslims through our Christian troops. They worry a lot that non-Christians will cause the Apocalypse, which is confusing. You'd think they'd want it to happen now.
My family members refused to read anything except religious lit for decades because anything else was Satanic.They've relaxed a bit now, though despite being more open, they don't believe me or my information because I'm secular and contaminated by 'regular books and the New York Times and NBC'. Fox News is Truth.
Most of my religious relatives give money to the organizations their religious contacts and media tell them to. I'm sure it's not representative, but most of my religious relatives can barely read and write and did not graduate from high school or barely graduated. I'd say 2 out of the 15 or so religious believers in my family who went to some college still are very fundamentalist, but it appears a secular college seems to change the impact of the bible's instructions into suggestions and not the demands the less educated in my family believe the bible to be requiring. However, books like this bring back whatever fundamentalist fears of apocalypse they had stopped having.
This one relative (I have a dozens and dozens of religious right relatives) has slowly, over three decades, decided religious politicians are not to be depended upon. She quit voting after George W's first term, and finally stopped believing in the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition, to whom she gave hundreds of dollars. She has begun to listen to some mainstream media and does some internet surfing. I don't know if she has learned her religiosity has given her a weakness for stampeding in a frenzy by whatever rumor or fad her bible reading has prepared her to believe, though.
Some of my relatives still talk about the Apocalypse, as in soon, now. Soon. Some can't read this series because of their lack of ability, but they know what they are about and think they are somehow from the bible and god himself wrote them anyway. They are amazed I am still not a believer after reading the words of god (this series), or going to their church.
They absolutely will not allow me to talk about how the bible was actually written or how the Protestant churches came about or other religions, whatsoever. The fact I've read the bible six times is amazing to them because I haven't seen the truth of it. When I try to discuss what contradictions and horrors I've read, they say it's the word of god and not to be questioned. Then they try to tell me god meant for women to be servants and mothers, and not live like men or have men responsibilities. Women cook,clean and make babies, and are obedient and silent. It's what god wants, it's in the bible. God wrote the bible. Simple.
Why doesn't everybody just get together to make a better world? Showering hatred upon those who don't believe as you do has never done anything to improve society. Perhaps it is time to stop trying to prove how horrible everyone who disagrees with you is and rather stretch out to them with love and generosity and a mutual respect and acknowledgement that we all want that better world. Everybody who has written to this forum I think are basically good people. All we need to do is get over our predjudices; and most importantly: get over our egoes.
And get over being robbed by the families who think their girls are dirt while giving everything to their sons? Get over being forced into marriage at age 9 and forced to have children at age 12? Get over not being hired because they will only hire males? Get over being paid half of what your male city-worker gets if they do hire females? Get over being told to be quiet because only men are permitted to speak? Get over sitting in the back or in another room while the men go up front? Get over having to do all of the cooking and cleaning and farming while the men sit around? Get over not being to keep your earned money but being forced to hand it over to a male who spends it on himself? Get over being beaten every day by a man and no one stops him or calls the police? Get over being raped and put in jail for being a whore? Get over being killed because you are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Christian by someone of another faith?Religion is not kind, benign, or nice! It's a devisive, hurtful, dangerous institution which has killed billions and billions! You speak of prejudices - is it crazy to defend yourself against a crime being committed against you? Is it not a crime if a religious person tries to rob, kill beat or not hire you for religious reasons? No abortions for the 12 year old raped by her father because cells are people! No education for girls! No jobs for girls! No science taught in public schools, only Creationism! By law, force or public opinion! It doesn't matter if non-religious people want abortions, or want women to be able to work the same jobs as men, or want to learn about science, or if women want to control their own money!
The religious will pass laws, close down abortion clinics and refuse to hire women because they will force everyone, including non- religious, to live religiously because it's good for them, per their god! But that's not being bad?
Unbelievable. Religious people always think they look like a Jesus looking for a hug when instead they are acting like a giant Jesus with a stick, gun or whip killing people in the Apocalypse! I spit on your religious rules! I will not be forced to live under them! I will not buy your 'live and let live' lies when everything you guys do is to force everyone to live religiously the first chance you guys get! Stop closing down the abortion clinics and THEN I'll believe religious people want to live and let live! Stop the not serving gays at pharmacies and flower shops, and then I'll believe in your happy talk!
This isn't about egos! It's life and death for billion of people! You sound like people are arguing over where to plant the roses, when people are losing their lives and killing and raping and torturing and enslaving women because of religion. Religion forces women into motherhood, and poverty, starvation......it's not a fricking philosophy argument, it's life and death!
"Disagree?" DISAGREE? It's life and death for females! It's DEFENDING my life, not disagreeing!
aPriL meows, scratches and growls wrote: ""Disagree?" DISAGREE? It's life and death for females! It's DEFENDING my life, not disagreeing!"So you think that every religious person in the world is out to get you? The way to get people to see things your way is not to bully them, or hate them. If you show the kindness and compassion, I am sure that many people will reach out to you. Who is it who is threatening your life? Everybody who believes in a higher power? Possibly there is someone in your circle who is threatening you physically, I don't presume to know. But what might be threatening your personal happiness might just be your belief that every religious person is persecuting you.
message 1291:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Apr 01, 2014 03:55PM)
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I will not be compassionate to people who want me to live as a godly woman - it always, ALWAYS leads to women slavery.I was born in the 1950's in the USA. I remember when women could not go to college or be anything except housewives and nurses and teachers for almost no pay, until the babies came. I remember women who were raped or had deformed babies (brains outside of their skulls) yet had to bear them and raise them.. I remember women and children eating dog food because the fathers deserted without penalty. I remember when women and children could be beaten almost to death, day after day, with no one helping. I remember when I couldn't get a credit card because I was a woman. I remember when I couldn't buy a car, much less a house, without my dad or brother or husband, because women couldn't sign contracts. I remember when there were no women shelters. I remember when women could not participate in sports, I remember when my husband walked into a bank and was able to access all of my accounts even though his name was not on them, because he was my husband, but I could not access his accounts because I was ONLY his wife. I remember being an insurance rater for $400 a month but my boss made $75,000 a year. When I asked for a raise, my boss threw furniture around and said no. When I quit, he told me I could not do that and he'd have me never work again, but I walked out. They had to close the office for three months because no one else knew how to do the math from 6 books on insurance rating. I remember when the want ads were separated into 'femaLe wanted' and they were all secretary and babysitting ads. I remember being in public school and being told to forget college despite being a straight A student . I remember church telling me to obey my parents and men despite the fact I was smarter. I remember studying and getting a computer science bachelors along with three women and a hundred men, and only we three women were working as secretaries by the end of the year. I remember want ads which said, only if you can lift 50 pounds apply to be a computer programmer.
I remember when men ruled everything - the law, the schools, the police, the banks, private business - because god said so.
Your're damn right I'm fighting back! I never want to be that helpless, impoverished and disrespected female again. I'm not even old, my friend. I'm 59.
aPriL meows, scratches and growls wrote: "I will not be compassionate to people who want me to live as a godly woman - it always, ALWAYS leads to women slavery.I was born in the 1950's in the USA. I remember when women could not go to co..."
Well, I was born in the 1940's, and I was raised in a much more oppresive society than yours. We didn't come to a more acceptable society by revolution, we came there by negotiation. A willingness to sit down and discuss and resolve our differences. Do you really think that polarization helps your cause? History teaches that it merely increases the gap. And you're not fighting back. What you are doing makes reasonable people, who might support you nervous. You are not showing any inclination to negotiate.
"I remember when men ruled everything - the law, the schools, the police, the banks, private business - because god said so." They didn't do it because god said so; the did it because they wanted to be in control. Have you never met a selfish, self-serving atheist?
Since we chatted earlier on this forum, I have liked and empathised with you, Alice. I just hope you don't spend the rest of your life unhappy.
Glenn wrote: "aPriL meows, scratches and growls wrote: "I will not be compassionate to people who want me to live as a godly woman - it always, ALWAYS leads to women slavery.I was born in the 1950's in the USA..."
I agree. You seem really unhappy and bent on rebelling against your upbringing. You're an adult...you can do what you want. I just hope you don't spend the rest of your life unhappy either...and so angry. Remember that he who angers you controls you...and that's just a good saying.
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aPriL does feral sometimes
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Thanks so much. Your empathy warms my cold angry heart. That fixes everything. I'll stop rebelling now. I'm so glad we have met in the middle and compromised. I feel my life beginning finally.I'll be overjoyed now as a barefoot, poor and 12-kids pregnant housewife, being forbidden everything and anything of my own, including money, a job, opinions and an education. I'll be pleased to speak only when spoken to. Never saying no to any man will be my ecstasy for now on. I'll live on my knees praying until I have nosebleeds, while my master takes me from behind. It's all so simple once I accept my place! Gee, if only I could turn the clock back, and enslave myself again.
Thanks for clearing up that starvation, rape, beatings, torture and slavery are only selfishness and self-serving! I had no idea that physical agony and deprivation of food, clothing, shelter and water was only a silly emotional state!
Thanks for fixing everything! Your concern for me has made me heal! Hallelujah! Scars all gone! I guess I better hurry and put on my burka before I beg a ride to the church. Maybe I'll get a seat in the balcony without being socked by a male for looking him in the eye. But who cares, it's all my selfishness and being self-centered! Pain, blood, bruises - my lot to bear.
You've taught me good. Don't want to be self-centered and complain about the slavery and sexual abuse of women no more.....all children need to see their mother's teeth kicked in! Don't want to be selfish and complain! After all, glory be! Don't need to eat. It's just me being self-centered again.
Compromising with religious people and negotiating a common ground about, for instance, abortion is easier for everybody since now that I see I should be less selfish and raise a dozen kids and stop whining about Christians closing all of the clinics so nobody can have abortions, no matter what, even though I don't want kids. I guess it won't hurt them to experience the joys of starvation, no education, no love or affection and beatings by the man of the house after he comes home drunk, when he comes home. It's all in gods hands and I am so supported by everyone's concern! I used to think earning my own money would help me be happier! But I see now that people being concerned about me is a lot better! Patting me on the head doesn't seem to make my stomach feel less empty, though. Hmmmmm. Maybe I'm being grateful wrong.
I wouldn't want to be selfish and self-centered and hurt Christian feelings and delicacies. Pain, starving, beatings, broken body - all my self-centered concern! Whippings, kicks, being slugged - I know now concerned Christian thoughts will fix it all by stopping my anger, even though it seems to me, it was the abuse that made me angry, not the other way around. My mistake. If I'm tortured and it makes me angry, I'm being selfish. Right!
Got it. I'm so dumb! Thanks for putting me straight.
aPriL meows, scratches and growls wrote: "Thanks so much. Your empathy warms my cold angry heart. That fixes everything. I'll stop rebelling now. I'm so glad we have met in the middle and compromised. I feel my life beginning finally.I'l..Thanks for putting me straight. ."
Don't mention it. PLEASE don't mention it.
Most Religions are oppressive and persecute minorities if you do not conform to there ways or ideals this has been evident throughout history.
Oh for Heaven's sake, if you want to know why Christians behave the way they do, read the Bible? When we become Believers, we're Disciples of Christ. As such, our mission is to help OTHER CHRISTIANS and convince non-believers to convert. We may use our discretion as to how much to "give" nonbelievers, but we can't hold back from Believers. Some are kind to pagans, some aren't, but essentially we owe you nothing!
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aPriL does feral sometimes
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Robert wrote: "Oh for Heaven's sake, if you want to know why Christians behave the way they do, read the Bible? When we become Believers, we're Disciples of Christ. As such, our mission is to help OTHER CHRISTIAN..."Spoken like a true 'Disciple of Christ'. So full of the love pouring from Jesus' heart spewing from your lips. So kind, so giving - oops strike that. I'll try not to need any help from you. Oh, wait. I actually don't want any help from you.
However, in my Bible, Jesus tries to help a lot of non-believers. Since he was a Jew, non-believers would be all of the not-yet Christians, which would be pretty much the whole world except for the disciples, right? His disciples were all Jews, so who would be the believers? Only the disciples. Then he'd be done! The not-yet Christians are non-believers, right? It seems to me of the Disciples of Christ you belong to would mean that there ever was and will be only 12 believers. Are you 2,000 years old? Which believing disciple are you? Did you break your vows of not giving to non-believers here by giving information only a disciple Christian is worthy?
No, dear, in each and every miracle, the recipient recognized the sovereignty of Jesus and was healed by his Faith. The Jewish part is just a straw man. Their calling is the same as anyone else's. To be saved, believe the annointed one is the Son of God. Many did instantly and what their precise moniker was at the time is immaterial. How did this thread get so far from Left Behind, aPRIL?
Robert wrote: "Oh for Heaven's sake, if you want to know why Christians behave the way they do, read the Bible? When we become Believers, we're Disciples of Christ. As such, our mission is to help OTHER CHRISTIAN..."So believe/conform or suffer is that the Christian massage none of this free thinking carry on and if your female just shut up get in the kitchen and push out some babies (then beg forgiveness for having sex) that is also the message of the book if you believe you get to go to a better place if you don't you suffer on earth till your death and then you go to hell to suffer for eternity shouldn't just being a good person get you into "Heaven"
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Just so that you know, I'm a supporter of religious freedom and non interference from government in regarding to religion. So, yes, we agreed on that point.
I'm against government favoring..."
Well, I am pleased to read such a rational letter with your beliefs and points of view so clearly stated. And it is dreadful how a certain white group warped religion to justify there actions. NOT all the "Christians" by the way. One particular group of Calvinists. Nearly all the other denominations preached against apartheid and a lot of them were persecuted for it. I know. I was there.
I appreciate your clear statement of your political beliefs. Don't seem to be any different from mine.