Left Behind
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its funny how they call this christian fiction...
message 1151:
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Glenn
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rated it 3 stars
Feb 05, 2014 03:29PM
Well, I will admit that it wasn't my favorite book. I have only read this one and I don't have the desire at this time to read any further. I thought the writing in the beginning was poor, but I though that it improved as the book progressed. The premise I found interesting but just not sufficiently so to tempt me to read any further in the series. I have literally thousands of books available to read, so I change genre regularly. Fortunately, I have very broad tastes. I must admit to liking books that display other beliefs and values from my own. Many times I have been sufficiently impressed to research subjects I have come upon in fiction that I would not normally have considered. Non-fiction has taught me much. Fiction has taught me even more. And, to quote a famous diarist, so to bed. I live in South Africa and it is 1:27AM. So, keep warm all you poor folk in the North. I'll just kick off all my bedclothes and enjoy the cooler night air.
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Glenn wrote: "Well, I will admit that it wasn't my favorite book. I have only read this one and I don't have the desire at this time to read any further. I thought the writing in the beginning was poor, but I th..."Goodnight Glenn.
@Lauren: regarding the word "fiction", where in bible can you find the names of the main characters in this novel and what they say to each other? How do you know from the Revalation that the world is going to end in the near future? How do you know that Revelation is about events in 21th century, instead of, as believed by most bible scholars, about the author's prediction of the fall of Roman empire?Also, most ppl on this site do not label or rate every single book they've ever read, so it's usually unwise to assume that a person has never read a certain book if it isn't labeled as such. I don't know if there are any statistics, but my impression is that, at least in the US, atheists tend to be reasonably well informed about religion, and those who aren't often end up converting to the most repressive kind of religion they can find, which in the US is often either some kind of fundamentalist Christianity or Salafism.
Finally, there is a huge difference between telling ppl that they're wrong and telling them that they are no allowed to go to school or work, or that they can not be treated as equals, which, IMHO, makes your comment #1250 unconvincing.
Xox, imagine if a someone said the things about homosexuals that you have said in this thread about Christians. Would you consider them tolerant or hatefully homophobic? All you have contributed to this thread is angry, hateful rhetoric.
Bruce wrote: "Xox, imagine if a someone said the things about homosexuals that you have said in this thread about Christians. Would you consider them tolerant or hatefully homophobic? All you have contributed to..."Bruce, only an open mind will consider its own fallibility. When it becomes caught up in its own invicibility, it closes and admits no logic. The drawbridge is up, the portcullis is down and the siege will yield nothing until the occupant starves. I'm not taking sides, merely suggesting that you walk away shaking your head sadly. You have won the battle, but you're not going to influence the closed mind.
Mary: I am so sorry you had that kind of experience in church. I know you are not alone, but I have been in church for over half a century and have never experienced anything so negative as to make me not want to go to church. But churches are full of fallible people, some are hypocrites, some are the kindest people I have had the pleasure of knowing. I also have many wonderful friends who are non-believers. And I have atheist friends who proselytize me at every opportunity. I keep telling them their unsolicited attempts to insist there is no God is no different than a Christian cornering someone and witnessing. They can't see that.I have been on many discussion boards and have been told by atheists that I am a terrorist, that I am a child abuser for taking my kids to church (the state should take them away from me), have called me every =phobic and -ist in the book, yada yada yada. But I don't hate atheists for it and I don't paint them all with a broad brush because of the bad behavior of some.
I actually don't go into religious discussion threads because they invariably end up like this one. But I have noticed that atheists are drawn to religious threads like moths to a flame and for no other reason than to be contrary. Discussion is fine and I can debate with someone and remain friends but unfortunately many can't. But I do think that the only remaining form of hate-speech allowed is anti-Christian hate-speech. Some of the things said about Christianity and Christians in this thread would be considered unacceptable if said about any other ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.
Like you, Mary, I am sort of home-churching myself at the moment. Churches have changed dramatically from when I was younger and I haven't found "my spot" yet since a recent move. Back on topic of the OP, I also read all the Left Behind books, found them to be an interesting "what if" scenario, but I didn't think the writing was all that great either. That's why I read very little Christian fiction- most of the writing is sub-par. I have never read Ted Dekker because I'm afraid his writing will also be lacking but I don't really know.
Well, I'm sorry you had the experiences you did. Have a great day. God Bless.
This is Christian FICTION people....Even if it is based on something we as Christians believe is going to happen, none of us, not even LaHaye can claim to know the future exactly.
Also, if you don't like this kind of stuff...don't read it? It's just that simple...
I don't think these are the best books ever written, I really don't, but I think they're okay...
Also, if you don't like this kind of stuff...don't read it? It's just that simple...
I don't think these are the best books ever written, I really don't, but I think they're okay...
oh the hate...i suppose its easier to be the richest person in the world than achieve world peace?
Again and again, Christians bang the 'behave' drum, and ignore the pain they inflict on everybody. None of you except XOX can face or address the stripping with violence and threats of all rights of women behind the chaining of religious dogma around their minds. No religion allows women freedom of any kind. The enslavement is painful and destructive, victimizing all women.
aPriL MEOWS often with scratching wrote: "Again and again, Christians bang the 'behave' drum, and ignore the pain they inflict on everybody. None of you except XOX can face or address the stripping with violence and threats of all rights o..."One of the reasons I no longer have anything to do with organized religion is precisely because of their stance on women. Why would I belong to a religion that considers me a second class citizen?
Well Laura aren't you a delightful representative for your faith, I think I'll rush out and join your church, do you think that I too can learn to be a paranoid, vitriolic, hypocrite with a persecution complex?
aPriL MEOWS often with scratching wrote: "I attack Christians because they insist I stay in my house, don't travel or work, have no money and shut my hole, except for the one babies come from. I couldn't marry in a church because my husban..."Well put April
Laura wrote: "LOL!! you all need help. :) that comment can be turned around on YOU, I attack non-religious People because they ATTACK ME! and I WILL FIGHT BACK! Have a nice day!!! :) does that make you feel..."
Says the woman who came in fists flailing
Wouldn't it be fun to lock Laura and Xox up together for a day?
Xox wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Wouldn't it be fun to lock Laura and Xox up together for a day?"How do you think you could do that? I'm not going to do it willingly, being locked up or being locked with some relig..."
Wow. Listen carefully: Quip; Joke: Levity. Sense of humour. Get the message?
Glenn wrote: "Xox wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Wouldn't it be fun to lock Laura and Xox up together for a day?"How do you think you could do that? I'm not going to do it willingly, being locked up or being locked wit..."
PS. By the way, deluded is an adjective. The are best followed by a noun. And I'm not joking.
Playfully suggesting two unlike people be put in a room together for comedic purposes is fairly common.
Xox wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Xox wrote: "Glenn wrote: "Wouldn't it be fun to lock Laura and Xox up together for a day?"How do you think you could do that? I'm not going to do it willingly, being locked up or be..."
"Be careful what you say." Excellent advice. You should practice what you preach. I might still be joking, but then again... You are so intense, Xox, that perhaps a 1 to 10 dilution with humor might make you a happier person. Try cracking a joke, so we can all laugh WITH you.
First of all, it is REVALATION...not RevalationS...Talk is cheap, and I can guarantee if we were face to face, only one of us would be standing and it would not be Xox.
Carry on, delusuional morons, carry on! :^)
Xox wrote: "Laura wrote: "First of all, it is REVALATION...not RevalationS...Talk is cheap, and I can guarantee if we were face to face, only one of us would be standing and it would not be Xox.
Carry on, ..."
"I'm a normal person, and have moral and common human values." See, I knew that you were capable of joking!
"Really signing off now." Forever? Awww... Gonna miss you.
Laura wrote: "First of all, it is REVALATION...not RevalationS...Talk is cheap, and I can guarantee if we were face to face, only one of us would be standing and it would not be Xox.
Carry on, delusuional mo..."
Actually, it's Revelation, not Revalation, while we are nitpicking. The noun formed from Reveal. Very interesting Book. All about the Roman Empire if you analyze it carefully. Or John might have been smoking something really interesting!
The vagueness of Revelation can apply to several empires/civilizations. It was also a very common genre of the time.
Will wrote: "The vagueness of Revelation can apply to several empires/civilizations. It was also a very common genre of the time."I think the one that most concerned the Jews at the time was the Roman Empire. Alas, this is not my analysis, but that of a number of researchers.
Yes, that is the one most commonly compared, I'm just saying it's not the only one.
Will wrote: "Yes, that is the one most commonly compared, I'm just saying it's not the only one."Indeed it isn't. But I am glad to have read all the theories, analogies, etc. Before that, having read Revelations as a young teenager, I really did think that the author was into some really good hemp!
What amazes me about a lot of the atheists that have commented here, as well as the theists, is their aggresiveness. And their skewed ideas about who is to blame and for what. It is not Christianity or Atheism that should be blamed, but those people who choose to interpret either to suit their own petty agendas. Why not attempt to unite the world, rather than to divide it? Trouble is, every time one generalizes, someone will bring up a specific.
"Smoking shortens your life."
"No, my uncle smoked all his life and lived to be 90!"
No one is going to win the argument, so why not look for common ground? Didn't someone say something like that. Was he a Christian; or was he an Atheist? Or maybe it was two people; one of each. Silly, isn't it?
I agree that common ground is great for civility, but if we all just agree to disagree, then ideas cannot progress. Discourse is the key. Same with politics. I also agree that atheists and Christians/theists alike can be and do good or bad things, but the principle behind the two ideas are so contrasting that it is the very idea of faith that atheists contend is destructive. At its most basic, one group believes in a deity by faith (belief without or in spite of the evidence) and often dogma, and the other disbelieves in any deities because of a lack of evidence.
Dave wrote: "Karen wrote: "What exactly is your beef about on this Dave?"I simply do not believe the claims from evangelicals about Christian charity and compassion when the large majority of them are raging..."
Just because some people do a certain thing, does not defy the whole religion. Not all Christians "revel in a mindset of revenge and retribution".
Well Laura, another demonstration of Christian charity and love. Way to turn the other cheek, just as Jesus would have wanted you to do... But then Jesus ran around making threats too, didn't he... Which church do you go to, it sounds like a good one, I want to join.
message 1179:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Feb 07, 2014 02:46PM)
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Welll, how fantastic that you boys want to paper over the differences and call it even Steven!I can't do that. There is no papering over the fact all religions enslave women and put them into the roles of chained up housekeepers, barefooted untaught ignorance and constant pregnancy, by force if necessary. I don't see how one can paper over the differences of women either having the same rights as men or not.
You men go ahead and shake hands. Excuse me if I say a pox on both of your houses!
Religion is nothing but evil to women, and there is no bridge possible between the positions of women having access to the same life as men or being forbidden to leave the house for their entire lives because god said so.
message 1180:
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aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Feb 07, 2014 03:07PM)
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Religion isn't a theoretical discussion to me. I lived as a woman dominated by men and society because of religiously based American rule of laws and social mores.
Bryson this is why religion is singularly dangerous. Anyone can find with in it something that supports their natural inclinations and feel completely justified in following their natural inclination, and have the tacit support of a large group of people who feel the religiosity of a person somehow justifies or mitigates... The other dangerous aspect is religion makes people do awful things, take otherwise loving parents who shun their homosexual children because they "know" it goes against god's will.... It's the veneer of respectability, the acceded demand for unearned respect that has the average catholic defending the church against the child rape charges rather that refusing to attend, tithe, or indeed simple active protests outside their local, until the church causes a pogrom against the rapists and their facilitators. It is the moderates, who enable the extremes.
Laura wrote: "First of all, it is REVALATION...not RevalationS...Talk is cheap, and I can guarantee if we were face to face, only one of us would be standing and it would not be Xox.
Carry on, delusuional mo..."
Oohhh!!! Threats of violence...
Women fared much better under the pagan Romans, the atheist communists of the Soviet bloc, Pol Pot, China, Ho Chi Minh, even modern Japan. Women have rarely in history enjoyed the freedoms and respect they have in modern Judeo-Christian Western civilization. Religion isn't the problem, human greed for wealth and power are the sources of human conflict regardless of religion or political system.The hatred being spewed toward "religion" in this thread seems singularly aimed at Christianity. I'm wondering why there is no F- Mohammed? And don't confuse the Catholic church with all of Christianity. Catholicism is not "the church" but just one church. I'm with the guys I guess. Agree to disagree, debate respectfully and avoid hyperbole and broad (inaccurate) statements.
To quote Rodney King, "Can't we all get along?"
Bruce, I guess speaking from the seat of overlord of all womankind makes it easy to believe religion is benign. As someone who was raised as a Protestant and forbidden to go to college even though I was accepted by the the University of Washington because 'no man would want you' (my father's reason for refusing me to go and co-sign my loan, supported by his religious friends - who recommended sending my D student brother instead) and expected to marry and have children so I was paid $400 a month doing the same work as men accountants earning $45,000 a year, and having had to fight my counselors in middle school to change my female graduation plan of three years of cooking and sewing to instead take three years of math, science and a foreign language (all colleges require this), which I was forbidden to do and then I became the first female EVER to be excused from cooking and sewing classes so I could go to college without paying for extra remedial classes ( I had no money, no credit by law, no credit cards by law, could not sign contracts so could not get loans, cars,or houses even IF I had a good job).I love running in immodest T-shirts and shorts and running shoes. Guess what! My feminine parts aren't rotting because I drive cars (arguments against women driving currently in Saudi Arabia) or do sports (real Christian faith arguments given 40 - FORTY - years ago ( not a century ago) during the Title IX passage arguments!
You are NOT forgiven for supporting Christianity! I despise ALL religion!
I was raised a Protestant and have never heard of anything close to what you describe. Sounds like you had a lousy father, a lousy job, and a lousy school counselor. What Protestant religion forbids a woman from going to college or taking math, science, or language or wearing running shoes?? My female Christian friends and relatives who are doctors, nurses, science teachers, small business owners and sneaker wearers etc would ask the same question. I say that acknowledging that women were at one time denied many opportunities they now have. But western democracies lead the way in rights for women. What does Title IX, credit cards, or car loans have to do with religion? Religion is not inherently evil nor is it inherently benign. It is what people make it. In history, some people have used religion to advance their quest for power and they have used many other mechanisms also. Stalin was an atheist and killed millions. China is an atheist country and women there have a fraction of the freedoms you enjoy. Does that make atheism evil? My wife might laugh at your description of me as an overlord and I didn't ask for forgiveness. I'm not trying to convince you to like religion - that's your choice. I shall leave you with this definition from Merriam-Webster: bigot - a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance
All Protestant religions forbid women to step out of the house and have a career except as house drudge and child-bearer. We women are all supposed to shut up and be quiet, never to speak unless spoken to, because men only have those rights. We are always to cover our hair and bodies, and never have an opinion against our husband's. All over the world we are lesser beings than men, including China, which YOU say does not have a religion. Christian superiority, naïveté and stupidity strikes again. Hello, ancestor worship? Confucianism/Buddhism (which Westerners do not call a religion, despite all of their praying, incense burning, temples and rules of proper respectful behavior to the elderly, the gods, and the oldest men of the family? And their 'folk' stories of an afterlife and ghost souls. Religion? Nah. Chinese can't possibly have a religion just because the Communists took over, and we all know they successfully killed all religious feelings in the Chinese, or that their 'folk' stories of heaven, hell, gods - isn't REAL like Christianity, those godless heathens....)
You don't know your Bible, do you? Or are you living in a 'revised' 21st century version, and calling it being religious, as most Americans do? No fundamentalist would recognize your brand of faith' but would call you out as condemned to hell by not living up to the Bible's actual commandments. If you are a 'revised' Christian. To me that's being a cherry picker. I'd hesitate to actually count you as one at the Gate, if there really is a Christian god doing the paperwork after death.
I am totally a bigot against religious people. I will never go back to the America of the 1950's. Revised Christians don't know the history of their faith from only 50 years ago, how it was lived in the good old USA, fearful of hell and Communists and the Atomic bomb. My life story was the story of most blue collar, underclass and lower middle-class neighborhood beliefs, whether Protestant or Catholic. Many could barely read or write, having had their education interrupted by the Great Depression and WWII. They kept their two bedroom WWII small houses lawns green and short, driveways swept, went to church every Sunday, owned the one car they could afford either a Ford or Chevrolet, burned trash in the backyard, their kids were whipped with belts and mouths washed out with soap for learning 'right from wrong' (all I learned was hate). The N word, plus the K word, and the J word was freely used, beer was the nightly drink of choice, Brinkley or Cronkite watched after work. My dad owned one suit and took a bath once a week.
My father worked for Boeing, went fishing, attended church every Sunday in downtown Seattle. He was an usher. He was no different than the entire group of lower classes of Seattle at the time 1950's and early 1960's. He grew up on a farm. Most of my dad's social class went to the eighth grade, if they were very lucky.
I love being a woman today. I can be anything I want if I have the talent, education and perseverance. No thanks to Christians of any kind, revised or fundamentalist.
My mother's faith is the Russian Orthodox Church. Ever hear of them?
The religious never seem to hear themselves. They say they 'love' everybody, except people of color, other religions, immigrants, women who want to live with the same rights as men....Some religious say you live your way, I'll live mine. Except they just won't hire you, or marry you, or let you get married, or loan you money, and stop you from buying a house next door, getting healthcare, etc.
The Russian Orthodox Church is COMPLETELY to blame for the anti-gay laws in Russia.
Bruce wrote: "Women fared much better under the pagan Romans, the atheist communists of the Soviet bloc, Pol Pot, China, Ho Chi Minh, even modern Japan. Women have rarely in history enjoyed the freedoms and resp..."Despite all their faults, "the atheist communists/socialists" did arguably achieved universal suffrage a bit earlier than the US. So are a few non-Christian countries. Also, what exactly is the thing called "Judeo-Christian civilization"?
Xdyj - I think it's safe to say Bruce doesn't know a lot about world history, or religions around the world, or the achievements of the Communists, except perhaps the new Texas Board of Education version.
Okay, so do I get this straight. All my personal problems and inadequacies are caused by organised beliefs. Oh, boy! And I thought that I was to blame! Beats the hell out of having to plan for my own self-improvement. If I am a victim, I can just blame someone else. And please, before I am subjected to a load of vitriol, I used the word "beliefs." That cuts both ways. Atheism is now less a belief than Theism. If you attribute the "no proof" theory, that's agnosticism.
I have no idea about your personal problems or inadequacies, except that you know nothing of China's history or Communism or the American 1950's. Apparently you have a faith in a Disney version of the bible, which says a lot, actually.I believe there is no god.
I was supposed to be pregnant and no education. I got a college education and refused motherhood. I exercise every day, keep my weight down, used to volunteer for teaching literacy to adult illiterates.If you want to self-improve, enroll in some college classes or volunteer.
Agnosticism/Gnosticism addresses knowledge what you know or don't, or claim to know or don't. In regards to god everyone is agnostic, because one simply cannot know if there is or is not a god/s.Atheism/theism addresses belief in a god or not. They are two different things that can intersect, for instance I am a agnostic atheist anti theist.
aPriL MEOWS often with scratching wrote: "I have no idea about your personal problems or inadequacies, except that you know nothing of China's history or Communism or the American 1950's. Apparently you have a faith in a Disney version of ..."Although you did not reply to me directly, the use of the quote "personal problems or inadequacies" suggests that you did mean me. Your statement that I know nothing of I know nothing of China's history or Communism or America in the 50's is laughably inaccurate. I am reasonably well-travelled (more than 30 countries, and 40 of the American states.) I am a South African and have lived through apartheid and democratization. I read and research extensively, especially world-wide history which interests me tremendously. Did I mention my personal beliefs? I don't think so. I am disappointed in both sides of this argument. Not the moderates but those that descend so easily to mud-slinging. And your reference: "Apparently you have faith in the Disney version of the bible, which says a lot, actually" is a huge assumption which you attempt to use to discredit me. Please don't let the truth get in the way of your less than sanitary misuse of it. And by the way, I never replied to you, or referred to you personally, but, if you want to pick up the cap, by all means wear it. I'm sure with all your working out it should look very attractive.
I'll be 61.
South Africa has had an interesting history.
I wish I could have traveled. Didn't have any money for it though. I feel like a victim now. First time in this conversation.
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