its funny how they call this christian fiction... Showing 1,001-1,050 of 1,587

[Hazel]

Glynda, you're the one who doesn't get it. Sure, believe what you want, knock yourself out, but there is no reason for anyone to accept what you claim when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up. You try turning it round with "who can honestly dispute that God created this world?", but really, where is your evidence that any being did? The evidence of how the universe, and the world came into being completely precludes any requirement for a deity, and there is no evidence for a deity, so based on that, how can you claim that a god was needed to create anything? If I showed you tomorrow indisputable evidence that the world was created when a turtle ejaculated in a shoe, would you make a shrine of shoes and turtle images?

[Jim]

I honestly hadn't heard of Christian Fiction when I picked up the first book, thought it was an interesting story line, starting reading it, liked the characters, good vs. evil, read the whole series. I am not sure if is for everyone, but I enjoyed them all.

[Renee]

Geezer wrote: "but it was written to scare the pants off of anyone that believes in Revelations.

Every generation has a fear of/desire for the Apocalypse. Somehow its implied that death and destruction will giv..."

It was set up to me to let you know what is going to happen and tell everyone to get there lives right not how your putting it. It is a good series and I showed it to my youth group and they loved it.

[Giansar]

Renee wrote: "It was set up to me to let you know what is going to happen and tell everyone to get there lives right not how your putting it."
It's all well and good but what if I adhere to all the rules that suppose to qualify me for rapture and then it turns out Pastafarians were right?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I have hopes of reincarnating as a snake as clearly the snake in the Garden of Eden had all of the power in the universe thwarting even god.

[Cameron]

Wow, you sound so scared about the Rapture and End Times that you feel compelled to wright against it. You realize the Left Behind is indeed a Christian book, but written to give people an idea of what the End Times will be like? You're just afraid and insecure. In fact, you say Christians are nutty yet you could have only known what this book was about if you had READ this CHRISTIAN book.

[Giansar]

Cameron wrote: "you could have only known what this book was about if you had READ this CHRISTIAN book. "
I am not sure to which pronouncements you are referring. I for one read all the books and as I stated before I enjoyed them. I however also read the Bible and don't find the books compatible with it at all. This written, I would be very interested to know, on which you, a Christian I presume, are basing your conviction that what has been written in these books is not fiction.

[Shanna]

Cameron wrote: "Wow, you sound so scared about the Rapture and End Times that you feel compelled to wright against it. You realize the Left Behind is indeed a Christian book, but written to give people an idea of ..."

Not scared, skeptical, and novels written for profit do little to alleviate my skepticism. I do find it amusing that some christians have admitted to reading these but not the Bible. Why should we give creedance to the end times account here and not the actual source you know Revelations in the Bible, that being said I think that neither have any legitimacy, but it's interesting you're defending novels written for profit...

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

At least one doesn't have to read movies like a book. My brain just takes it in easily when it's visual and I see lots of educated religious stuff in movies through the decades. I get a lot out of end time movies, especially when major stars like Schwarzenegger and Johnny Depp (the Ninth Gate, 1999) act in them. Makes me think lots about religious ideas. I'm thinking a little, right now. Wait, wait. Does this mean the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, "End of Days" (1999) got it wrong? I'll be dam*ed...

I think 1999 was a BIG year for apocalypse thinking. Wasn't the world gonna see Jesus in 2000? Or was that 2001, because it turned out religious people couldn't figure out whether the Gregorian calendar started at 0 or 1 AD, and how many years made 2000 years? Then the Chinese and Muslims mentioned their calendars were at year 5000 or 10000 or something which meant 2000 had already come and gone 3000 + or so years ago, but never mind. 2000 and 2001 passed without Jesus murdering the unbelievers or Rapture (maybe Rapture DID happen, but nobody was worthy, though - we wouldn't know, would we?). I think everybody got a headache trying to work out the calendars which are different depending on which country you live in and if you can do math, and Jesus ended up as a funny shaped potato chip on EBay, anyway, in 2002.

The problem is I can't figure out what end times Christians are talking about. Between the hundreds of end times movies and thousands of books and TV preachers and the churches (ten) up and down Greenwood Avenue (a local main throughway) which I spent a year visiting, I heard hundreds of different versions. Then I read this series, and this thread. Nobody's mentioned the Heaven's Gate cult, who killed themselves so their spirits would float to a comet where a space ship would take care of them, because when they read Revelations, that's what they got out of it. They were running away while Jesus came to earth and killed the nonbelievers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven&#...

So, maybe we are all too late. We could be Left Behind already. Given all of the thousands upon thousands of End Times that have been come and gone. But I'm not worried! I found there are plenty of NEW end times to check out and consider! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

[Alec John]

I am just going to say to everyone in this thread that I find it pathetic that after two years we are still arguing over this series. I have been following this thread for two and a half years and it never gets anywhere. It's time everyone grows up. Either you believe it or you don't but stop bickering over it. It's annoying.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Alec - but that means we have to face more important issues in our lives and actually deal with them! I for one always go with avoiding reality and distracting myself with white noise (and no-win hellfire speculations). Reality is so much easier when you hide from it in brainless argumentation. If it's good enough for Congress, it ok with me.

[Shanna]

Alec wrote: "I am just going to say to everyone in this thread that I find it pathetic that after two years we are still arguing over this series. I have been following this thread for two and a half years and it never gets anywhere. It's time everyone grows up. Either you believe it or you don't but stop bickering over it. It's annoying. "

Says the person still following the argument :P

[Alec John]

Shanna wrote: "Alec wrote: "I am just going to say to everyone in this thread that I find it pathetic that after two years we are still arguing over this series. I have been following this thread for two and a h..."

Says the bitch who doesn't realize I didn't know how to unfollow. Asshole.

[Mary]

Alec wrote: "
Says the bitch who doesn't realize I didn't know how to unfollow. Asshole. .."

...and your ignorance is her problem...how? If you do not like the thread, don't comment. I am following a number of threads on GR. If I do not feel the discussion is productive, I ignore it. I do not, however, tell other people not to post.

[Alec John]

Mary wrote: "Alec wrote: "
Says the bitch who doesn't realize I didn't know how to unfollow. Asshole. .."

...and your ignorance is her problem...how? If you do not like the thread, don't comment. I am follo..."

Oh my fucking god. You guys are all fucking dumbasses. Literally, this has been going on for almost three years. It's not ever going to get anywhere. Therefore, what's the point in having the discussion. Fuck all you mother fuckers, I don't have the patience for fucking ignorant ass people who fight about shit they can't prove.

[Mary]

Alec wrote: "Oh my fucking god. You guys are all fucking dumbasses. Literally, this has been going on for almost three years. It's not ever going to get anywhere. Therefore, what's the point in having the discussion. Fuck all you mother fuckers, I don't have the patience for fucking ignorant ass people who fight about shit they can't prove. .."

So LEAVE!!!

[Alec John]

Mary wrote: "Alec wrote: "Oh my fucking god. You guys are all fucking dumbasses. Literally, this has been going on for almost three years. It's not ever going to get anywhere. Therefore, what's the point in ha..."

Gladly.

[Will]

lulz

[Bee]

Patricia wrote: "GoodReads isn't a place where you try and lash out against people who like a certain book, it's a place where people who enjoy the same books can come and be friends and share their opinions and kn..."

Well said

[Teresa]

You aren't making friends with insults. I would rather be wrong about what I believe than believe that God does not exist to find myself in Hell after death.
Your opinion is your own but be careful of what you believe.

[Bee]

@Teresa, I say this same thing all the time. We have to be patient and take advantage of the opportunity to spread the word.

[Julie]

Yep better to be a religious fool in this life than an unforgiven sinner when it's too late. Jesus was called worse.

[Will]

Bee wrote: "I would rather be wrong about what I believe than believe that God does not exist to find myself in Hell after death."


Pascal's Wager? Well that's pretty silly logic, don't you think?

[Hazel]

Julie wrote: "Yep better to be a religious fool in this life than an unforgiven sinner when it's too late. Jesus was called worse."

Ok, but in that case, you better get right on with believing in Thor, Zeus, Odin, Hera, Juno, Cernunnos, and the other thousands of gods people worship, because, you know, its better to be a religious fool in this life, than end up being smote when its too late.

What if you believe in God, and it turns out to be Odin, you still get smote. What if it turns out to be Vishnu? What if it turns out to be John frum? Shit, what if it turns out that tiny cargo cult is right, and its Prince Philip?

And if there is a god, don't you think said god would know you only worshipped it to hedge your bets? Not exactly the best reason for worship.

Pascals wager was thrown out a couple of centuries ago. Try again.

[Bee]

Everybody has a choice, freewill, to believe or not believe. I have chosen to accept the words and beliefs of the best, 'best selling novel' of all times. No other book has been sold or read more. I say this, give Him a try, if He doesn't work for you, then you've lost nothing. But I think you'll find that there is more to this Christianity thing than you think. It can't hurt...
Bee

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Bee - why do you assume many of us who do not believe in a god never did? I was raised by Christian parents who took me to church every Sunday. My mom was in the choir, my dad was an usher. It was learning about the history of Christianity which opened my eyes. Church books will never tell the truth of it. If this crap, and I include the fictional book the bible, as well as Sunday sermons, are the sources on which you are basing your knowledge, along with any mystical internal ecstasies you created in yourself through emotional workouts, you should give the gift of educating yourself with books and textbooks which explain the true development of Christianity written by historians and archeologists, not ministers.

[Bee]

My apologies @Pril MEOWS, if I offended you. I try not to assume anything and if my last post seemed that way, it wasn't meant to be.That's why I Love America, we are free to believe whatever we want, when ever we want and for as long as we want. I am aware that not everybody believes as I do and that's okay. My point is this, I know what works for me and I'm not perfect by far. I can't pick and choose what I believe about the Bible. My hope is that people will try having a relationship with Him first. And, then go from there.
Just a thought...

[Bee]

Things to do tomorrow...
Exercise...
Study...
Add Xox to prayer list :))
Goodnight

[Giansar]

Bee wrote: "Everybody has a choice, freewill, to believe or not believe."
You've managed to make at least two MAJOR logical errors here.
1. Having a choice does not in any way implie having free will to choose.
2. You cannot, I repeat: cannot! Well, once again: YOU CANNOT choose to believe in something or not. It is not your choice at all. You cannot will yourself into believing in something no matter how you try.

[Glenn]

I notice that the only comments that resort to bad language are the one's from...
Interesting to an impartial observer.

[Hazel]

Bee wrote: "Everybody has a choice, freewill, to believe or not believe. I have chosen to accept the words and beliefs of the best, 'best selling novel' of all times. No other book has been sold or read more. ..."

So, what you're essentially saying is you choose to believe what makes you feel happy, and don't really care if its true or not, and hope that on the off chance you're right, because "it can't hurt". Actually, religion often does hurt, some of the things the bible teaches cause a lot of hurt. It also means that you waste a lot of your time preparing for a second life you have no proof for existing, instead of living this one. Thats hurting you, whether you see it that way or not, Instead of spending time in church on a sunday, you could be out doing something that helps the community, or you could be out seeing the world, as there's a lot to see, and not a lot of time to see it, and a sunrise over the ocean beats a morning in church hands down. I suppose, at least once you do die, you won't be aware that you wasted all your time, because you simply won't be any more.

[Bee]

Being a Christian isn't always peaches and cream. It's very hard sometimes. I do care that it's true and that's why I believe. I do lots of things for the community after I go to church and I don't go to church every Sunday.I don't feel I am hurting myself because I am sure in what I believe just the same as you are sure there is no God. Your beliefs are your beliefs and mine are mine.

[Will]

Bee wrote: "I do care that it's true and that's why I believe"

An all too familiar refrain.

[Glenn]

I notice that those that try to turn me into a Christian tell me of God's love for me and how I will be a happier, more fulfilled person. I notice that those who try and persuade me NOT to be a Christian tell me I'm stupid. I seem to recall someone once pointing out that one catches more flies with sugar than with vinegar. And wasn't this forum suppose to be about how much we enjoy literature, not telling each other that they are idiots?

[Will]

That's funny, I notice Christians threatening hellfire and torture and people from both sides who call each other idiots.

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "But anyone who say they truly believe Batman/Jesus is real is an idiot."
Are you calling a vast majority of historians, idiots? Because most of them agree he existed (Jesus not Batman).

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "Those who confirmed Jesus existed are either liars, idiots, or just wrong."
In point of fact, as far as I know (although my knowledge is certainly very incomplete) there is no valid historical theory right now that questions the historicity of Jesus.
I think you need to do a lot or reading.

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "It is a form of confirm bias when religious deluded really wanted this person to be real."
What's religion got to do with it?
Are you also convinced Muhammad didn't existed because you don't believe in Allah?

[Giansar]

Wow Xox. I think you've managed to shut me up.
I just hope you are really, really young.

[Will]

Jesus may or may not have been an actual person. It's certainly plausible and most historians agree there probably was a person named Jesus who, like many others of his time, was proclaimed to be the Messiah.

Regardless of whether or not Jesus was a real person, though, we can certainly be doubtful of any supernatural claims.

[Will]

Xox wrote: "Actually to what was written by historians who are not so religious, Jesus was a composite of several Jesus/prophets of that period of time, mixed with third-person stories and myth into the background stories."

Nah, even Bart Ehrman will tell you there was probably a person named Jesus. He's not religious at all. You're confusing the fact a person named Jesus might have existed, and the miracle claims attributed to him, which are certainly a composite of prophetic figures and past gods. Two separate claims, though.

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "It is not me who is confused."
Oh yes, you are. You cannot even tell the difference between historical facts and theories and religious myths. You don't present any rational argumentation - you just keep on ranting about "bullshit" (by the way - maybe a thesaurus would be in order?).
Don't get me wrong. I don't know you. Maybe your hatred towards religion in general and Christianity in particular is entirely well-founded and justified. Maybe a priest molested you in your childhood or a nun made you kneel on frozen peas for hours for masturbating in the bathroom. This indiscriminate hatred however keeps you from rational thinking.

As to Jesus being an amalgam of different historical and mythical figures. This is true for most historical characters, especially those connected to religious cults. Saint George's historicity is not up to dispute even though his slaying of the dragon is clearly a legend.

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "Come back when you find your version of "so called" historical Jesus, and we could discuss further, with concrete evidence"
Here you have the general article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic...
And here you have evidence galore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic...
References to hundreds of books, studies, articles by hundreds of scholars. Unless of course you know all these scholars to be deluded Christian bullshitters, in which case, I rest mine.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I am feeling queasy about introducing what I know about this issue, but here goes. There is actually ONE authentic reference in ALL of history, mostly accepted as a real reference by authorities... This is the only single document accepted as a possible proof that Jesus existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephu... The trouble is Josephus was repeating stories he had heard, from who he thought were actual witnesses...there is NO other mention EVER discovered from before or since. What this proves is the STORY of Jesus was in the conversation of ordinary people; however Josephus was a Christian interested in promoting Christianity, too.

The problem is religious people assume this is proof of the validity of the Bible. It is not. None of the rest of the New Testament stories has any secondary proof except the New Testament itself, which is unacceptable. Pilate existed, but there are hundreds of stories referencing him in historical Roman documents - and there is nothing there about a Jesus or specific incidents about a holy man. However, the Romans (and other tribes and city-states and countries) DID marvel at this mental disease of the area where thousands - THOUSANDS - of deranged religious (not only Jewish) men, walked about claiming they were sons of gods. There were hundreds of apocalypse preachers from many different religions warning of the end of the world in a year or less. They were from everywhere wandering everywhere, living under the bridges and in alleys. It was both kind of a fad and a mental disease which continues today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusal.... The Romans had cleansing fads, food fads, clothing fads, etc,, just like now, and they set the fashion for all they conquered, just like England, America and now China are doing so. They thought of this phenomenon as a fad endemic to the Near East and laughed/sighed at them.

From the comments of the Romans, Pilate despised the Jews and rarely had anything to do with them. He was chastised for being away from Palestine more than he should have been. The Roman way was to buy off local officials into managing their people - they had a hands off policy generally speaking. They cared about insurrections and non-payment of taxes and grains and the drafting of soldiers whenever the Romans needed armies.

While there are dozens and hundreds of sources of written documents going back to the ancient Greeks about the Mediterranean and Near Asian people, customs, events, wars, etc., there is only the one reference to Jesus within 100 years of of death - Josephus's history. The New Testament was put together about 300 years after Jesus's time. However, it never provided back up secondary sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develop... The paperwork provided by Christians themselves show that Christians sat around and discussed what stories might be true and which stories did not fit the narrative they wanted to develop, throughout several meetings in the passing centuries. Later, they came up with the "divinely inspired" response when challenged about where these stories came from.

Most of the life events and miracles seem to be exactly the same as other heroes of the nearby peoples that were told and written down throughout the near East, only from other religions or from ancient fairy tales that are documented. The gospels actually include barely disguised copied incidents from other religious gods and goddesses. Just like most Christian religious holidays are on top of other older other religion's holidays on those days, the gospels stole other gods' stories and gave them to Jesus. Jesus was a common name as well back then, like Samuel.

Most of you, I think, won't even bother reading through the links, I bet. You won't notice how little information except guesses provided by historians based on how people generally lived in these days, plus documents, sans Jesus references, found in Roman, Greek and other nearby communities' written books and art show what happened then. Christianity clearly was invented by arguing men around tables deciding on what fairy tales to include throughout the centuries. The proof is right there in front of you.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Giansar wrote: "Xox wrote: "Come back when you find your version of "so called" historical Jesus, and we could discuss further, with concrete evidence"
Here you have the general article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wi..."

If you read these pages carefully, they mostly are scholars saying in studying the original "inspired" religious books, they sound like they could be true. That is not proof. If I tell you I woke up today at 10:00 am, that sounds true. But that is not proof. These stories about Jesus and his times sound true because Palestine is provable and how people lived in that time is provable, and the Romans have documents which show some of the Jewish political crises, cities and disputes were true. But nowhere is Jesus's name found in 1 ad or for the next 100 years, except in Christian "inspired" letters and writings.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I agree there is absolutely no proof of a historical Jesus. But if some of these folks can be convinced to pick up a couple of books regarding the history of the Bible, Jesus, or Christianity written by most GENUINE scholars outside of the ministry or not writing from religious school employment jobs, they bring up Josephus. I'm bringing him up both as inducement for further REAL study and also that he was an early Christian scholar, thus suspect in his conclusions.

[Giansar]

I've been wondering for some time now, what this discussion is reminding me of. I finally know!
Richard Dawkins talking to Wendy Wright (a, so called, scientific creationist). Dawkins keeps enumerating proofs of evolution like DNA and fossils and is even telling her where exactly to find them (e.g. which museums) and she still only repeats that "there are no fossils, there are only illustrations, show me the evidence", and so on and so forth.
To be totally clear: you Xox are Wendy in the discussion :)

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Xox wrote: "aPriL MEOWS often with scratching wrote: "I agree there is absolutely no proof of a historical Jesus. But if some of these folks can be convinced to pick up a couple of books regarding the history ..."

Children can be awfully hard to teach values to. If you teach them to be meek, frightened of hellfire and that being like Jesus gets you into a paradise, maybe you can get your kids to survive puberty. To politicians and rich people, it's better if everyone else is trying to feel lack of health care and material goods is better for them after they die, while they take and enjoy it all.

That's my theory.

[Giansar]

Xox wrote: "Give me some evidence that the *** Jesus character was a real person. "
One last thing before I stop wasting MY time.
I gave you a ton of resources, in which to find the evidence. If you asked me about evidence for evolution I would have done the same - I would have referred you to pertinent materials. I wouldn't have tried to present you with scientific evidence myself because I am not qualified to do that. And anyway, even if I tried I am sure your only answer would be the 'b' word that apparently consists half of your vocabulary.
I think the reason I led the discussion for so long is because I, being more of an agnostic myself, know a lot of atheists and they are, without exception, highly intelligent, highly educated, highly cultured and highly moral people. I therefore instinctively tried to treat you as such. It seems more and more to me however that you really are ignorant and abusive, I will therefore end the discussion now.
Like I wrote before - I just hope you are very young.

[Glenn]

A Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic church. The Priest says “What are you doing here?” The Higgs Boson says “Well, you can’t have mass without me.”