its funny how they call this christian fiction... Showing 551-600 of 1,587

[Hazel]

then contact the goodreads team to ask them to stop the notifications. And in the meantime, try it again.

Its a shame, I enjoy our conversations when you're not being irrational.

[Shaun]

Kendra wrote: "I have a question for all who are present here.

Do you know everything ? If you do, you will most-likely be able to answer this for me. What does it take to make a baby? If you know everyt..."

The first half of this boils down to "Science doesn't know everything."

Time for a bit of Dara O'Briain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYba0...#!

"Science *knows* it doesn't know everything. Otherwise, it would stop! However, just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy-tale most appeals to you."

[Hazel]

I LOVE DARA!!! One of the funniest comedians of the moment

[Hazel]

April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Hazel, you rock. Amazingly anal. I SO love you."

errrr... I love you too?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Hazel wrote: "April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Hazel, you rock. Amazingly anal. I SO love you."

errrr... I love you too?"

I've come across your posts in the Atheist areas. No matter WHAT, you back up EVERY statement with multiple, accurate, indisputible examples. Absolutely utterly without breaking into a sweat. Since I get hot under the collar, but I'm a believer in undeniable logic, the intellectual pushing around has had me on the floor gasping with laughter.

[Hazel]

Oh believe me, I break a sweat, I just hide it well.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Well, in any case, whenever I see your name coming up in the responses, I know it's game over. ; D

[Xdyj]

Kendra wrote: "Xdyj wrote: "Leah wrote: "i loved the books i am a christan so i liked the books"

Not all christians like them imo. Just google slacktivist."

Xdyj> not everyone is willing to accept being tol..."

No those people on slacktivist just think left behind books are written by homophorbic bigots. I'm not a christian but as far as I know no single person or organization has the authority to monopolize christianity anymore. (thank god:)

Also, you have claimed many times that everything in the bible is true, so what is your opinion about those supposedly wrong or creepy bits in it other ppl like Hazel, Xox etc. pointed out? (I'm just curious, sorry if you are offended)

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "then contact the goodreads team to ask them to stop the notifications. And in the meantime, try it again.

Its a shame, I enjoy our conversations when you're not being irrational."

You..... enjoyed it ? Really? Well, I'd stay, but no one wants to discuss anything other than how much they disagree with the Bible. And it all started with the Left Behind series.

[Hazel]

Yeah, I enjoyed it, I like a debate to get my teeth into.

[[deleted user]]

That's what...... almost everybody says ! I argue constantly - as you've probably noticed. I was a real pain before my salvation. And after my TBI, I just argued more - I was like a child again. :(

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good bye."

I wasn't trying to bring down your beliefs or justify my own, I was just trying to point out that you aren't alone in believing that what you are doing and what you believe is the best way is the right way. Those violent Christians who convert other people at gun point are still Christians, and they firmly believe they are doing what god wants them to do, just like you do when you pray, help the less fortunate, and things like that. The bible technically has no problem with either method. You were just taught one way, and they were taught another.

[[deleted user]]

Molly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good bye."

I wasn't trying to bring down your b..."

Molly, I can certainly understand your confusion over this. Anyone's confusion over this is comprehensible. I don't even understand why people do this. It's like when the terrorists of Iraq attacked the WTC on 9/11. They believed that they were doing the right thing. But how is killing people going to convince them - or others - to "convert"?

[Hazel]

What Molly said. The thing is that if you state that the bible is the word of god, that means that you have to accept all of it as such. Including the bits that you may not like.

However, if there are bits that you cannot bring yourself to agree with, then you either have to reject the idea that it is the inviolable word of god, or reject the idea that god is a good and worthwhile deity to follow. Assuming that you don't do further research that shows that there is no reason to believe in any deity at all.

[Molly]

Xdyj wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Xdyj wrote: "Leah wrote: "i loved the books i am a christan so i liked the books"

Not all christians like them imo. Just google slacktivist."

Xdyj> not everyone is willing to accep..."

I love the Slacktivist. Fred Clark is brilliant, and he seems very nice. He reminds me a bit of Mr. Rogers' in some weird way.

[Hazel]

Kendra wrote: "Molly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good bye."

I wasn't trying to b..."

fear Kendra, if you cannot persuade, then subjugate.

[[deleted user]]

Oh goodness!! I hope I haven't ruined your lives by being so pigheaded and stubborn and.....unknowledgeable!!

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Molly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good bye."

I wasn'..."

Why would I subjugate?
Are you all trying to subjugate me?

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "Molly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good bye."

I wasn't trying to b..."

I could't tell you why exactly they think it's okay to hurt people to convert them. I think it goes along the same lines as the inquisition where they thought it was okay to harm the body if that's what it took to "save" the soul. If they won't convert out of fear or force, maybe they can serve as an example to others.

[Shaun]

Nobody is saying that everything in the bible is disagreeable. The stuff about loving your neighbour and not killing people is generally good advice.

But to claim that it is 100% the inerrant word of god is a claim so easily disproved that anyone making it either (a) Hasn't read it themselves and is believing what others tell them about it (b) Has read and understood it but is deliberately lying or (c) Has read it but is genuinely delusional about the content.

Given the situation you find yourself in, and your genuine surprise when told what is in the bible (nobody arguing against you has made anything up - every thign they have said is in the bible really *is* in the bible) I'm thinking (a). Which makes you the victim in all of this - not the victim of us, but the victim of the person that misled you in the first place.

[Hazel]

Kendra wrote: "Why would I subjugate?
Are you all trying to subjugate me?"

I wasn't referring to you, or to us. You asked how people could convert others if they only use violence. Violence makes people afraid, afraid people are more likely to do what they're told. You could argue that god would know that they only joined the religion through fear, but if your benevolent god exists, I'd say that he would understand why they'd do that.

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "Hazel wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Molly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "OK. I can see that you all want me to stop my defence of my beliefs, even if you won't stop trying to justify your own. Fine then. Good ..."

I don't think anyone here was trying to subjugate you. I think they were just trying to show you what they thought and why they don't agree with you. At least that's what I was doing.

[[deleted user]]

THE ONLY REASON I'M STILL HERE IS THE CONNECTION!!

[Hazel]

Kendra wrote: "THE ONLY REASON I'M STILL HERE IS THE CONNECTION!!"

buh?

[[deleted user]]

My computer.....refuses to disconnect from this conversation. If I could, I'd shut my mouth and not bother you anymore!! AAAARGH!!

[Molly]

...what?

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "My computer.....refuses to disconnect from this conversation. If I could, I'd shut my mouth and not bother you anymore!! AAAARGH!!"

That's a bit of a shame. I was having fun learning about what you believe.

[[deleted user]]

Molly wrote: "...what?"

What do you mean? You don't want me to leave? All I do is argue, and I obviously don't know much about what you're discussing.

And that, I can honestly blame on my TBI. The TBI ....... Aww, never mind.

[Hazel]

you could... turn your computer off?

If the grey at the bottom of the posts still says you are following the conversation, then click edit again, and see if you can change it. If you still want to.

[[deleted user]]

Hmm. I'll have to try that. Now you want me to leave? ? LOL

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "Molly wrote: "...what?"

What do you mean? You don't want me to leave? All I do is argue, and I obviously don't know much about what you're discussing.

And that, I can honestly blame on my T..."

Neither do I, but that's why it's fun. It's a chance to learn about yourself and others. It's a chance to experience a new perspective.

Besides, it's good to argue once in a while. As long as you don't get too personal or too defensive, it can be enjoyable.

[Hazel]

no, I'm not saying I want you to leave, I'm facilitating your ability to do so if you want to

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "no, I'm not saying I want you to leave, I'm facilitating your ability to do so if you want to"

Oh. Okay. I'm also "enjoying' this discussion - at least some. It's like Molly says: it gives you a chance to learn about yourself. But I can honestly say that - even if you tell me things that will make me question my beliefs, I've seen far too many things in life that prove to me that there is a God.

I doubt I could ever "convince" or "talk someone into believing the same way" because I'm always blundering and saying the wrong thing, anyway.

And I did try what you told me about shutting it down. It didn't work. Same thing. :(

[Xdyj]

Kendra wrote: "Hmm. I'll have to try that. Now you want me to leave?? LOL"

Why make it so serious we are supposed to have fun here. It's not like debates in the congress or something. And none of us asked you to leave:)

[Hazel]

I'm not trying to remove your faith in god, but questioning your beliefs is a good thing, it means that you can apply basic humanist thinking to what you believe, and think "is this loving, or is this hateful", and then drop the stuff that doesn't come under the heading of loving.

[[deleted user]]

@Xdyj> NONE OF YOU , huh? That's a little surprising, considering everything we've been "discussing".

[[deleted user]]

I'm sorry, Everyone, about the repeated blunders with the BOLD and ITALIC type. I don't understand why it keeps on doing that. :(

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "Hazel wrote: "no, I'm not saying I want you to leave, I'm facilitating your ability to do so if you want to"

Oh. Okay. I'm also "enjoying' this discussion - at least some. It's like Molly say..."

You don't have to convince anyone of anything. It's not a contest, it's and exchange of ideas and thoughts.

[[deleted user]]

Ah, but Molly, you are all trying to convince me that my belief is wrong. how is that "an exchange of ideas/thoughts"?

[Hazel]

We are providing you with the information to decide for yourself whether your beliefs have merit, if after looking at it you still feel they do, then fair enough

[Molly]

Kendra wrote: "Ah, but Molly, you are all trying to convince me that my belief is wrong. how is that "an exchange of ideas/thoughts"?"

I never wanted to show you you were wrong, I just wanted to show you what I thought compared to what you thought, and what I thought about your thoughts and beliefs. This is an incredibly subjective topic, there's no real right or wrong.

You've made statements about what you believe, others have replied to those statements saying that they disagree because of this and that, you've replied with another statement supporting your other statement, and others have replied back again. It's a conversation.

[[deleted user]]

Ah. Sorry for misunderstanding, Molly. AARGH!!!!!!!!

[Hazel]

And what Molly said. I, also, have simply explained why I think some of what you believe is misled, and provided examples to illustrate, and evidence to support what I'm saying.

[[deleted user]]

However, Hazel, you've stated it as fact. You have accused me of believing something wrong; of being misled; of being wrongfully informed. How, may I ask, is that not an accusation?

[Molly]

Don't be. It happens to everyone.

Anyway, back to the book series. Does anyone else feel like the women were treated poorly in this book series? Especially Hattie, Rayford's daughter, and Buck's temporary boss Ms. Z? I honestly wanted to bitch slap Buck when he embarrassed her just for doing her job. Seriously, what kind of jerk does that to someone?

[Hazel]

I have only stated as fact the things that have enough supporting evidence to be considered as fact. There is enough evidence about, for example, evolution to state that evolution is fact (it is accepted scientific fact) and that there is no evidence for the creationist view, and as such it cannot be stated as fact (which you have done, without providing evidence beyond your own anecdote, and saying "but look at nature", which I then disputed, with logic, and reason and the facts). I have shown evidence that the bible is inconsistent, and that it contains some horrible things (I have not denied that it contains some good things too), and I have questioned your belief that the bible is the word of god based both on this, and on the lack of evidence for a god existing. I have not accused you of believing something that is wrong, I have sggested that some of what you believe may not be based on the facts. I've made no accusations, only rebutted your stance with evidence and examples.

And there is one thing on which I disagree with Molly, I don;t think that the truth is subjective, I think there is an objective truth, and everything else is what people want to believe, or have been taught to believe. But the world that we want to live in has no bearing on the world that we do live in, and there is an objective truth.

[[deleted user]]

LOL. Molly, Buck was defending his new faith. Sometimes, you just have to be blunt with people> something I have trouble with, I'll admit. I'm sure you've noticed it. :(

[[deleted user]]

Here is a question for anyone who wishes to answer - that has to do with the series -> have youi read all of the books in the series? Which was your favorite/least favorite and why?

[Hazel]

I haven't read the books, I just found the resultant debate interesting :P

Sell them to me, make me want to read them

[Molly]

Hazel wrote: "I have only stated as fact the things that have enough supporting evidence to be considered as fact. There is enough evidence about, for example, evolution to state that evolution is fact (it is ac..."

There are some objective truths, but when it comes to the existence of god, I don't think it's possible to prove or disprove the existence of god for everyone. The idea of god is big, complicated, and varies a lot from person to person. Besides, people's beliefs, ideas, and wants, shape the way they see reality, and the way they see the truth.