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What are we reading? 3/06/2024
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Robert wrote: "the clerical forces a lever to push out Bani Sadr, the Kerensky of the Iranian revolution, and to command internal debate..."I had only the vaguest recollection of who these guys were... having checked that out, the comparison seems valid.
But by "command" internal debate, I suppose you really mean - or imply - "suppress" debate? Bani Sadr's allies were executed or sidelined; no wonder he went into exile ASAP.
Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "FrustratedArtist wrote: "AB76 wrote: "my very balanced appraisal of iranian culture and society before 1979,...."On the subject of Iran on the eve of the 1979 Revolution , have you s..."
there was a brief spell before the crackdown by Khomieni where Iran could have moved foward with a more progressive agenda. the squandering of the immense possibilities that late 1970s Iran offered has lasted till this day
Its why the G so annoyed me by censoring my objective post of Iran, my point is that it is a fascinating country, the largest Shia Muslim state in the world, with a lot of things going for it but 45 years of clerical rule has ruined that
Reading White Torture
about female prisoners in Iran exposes the cruelty and the cynicism of the religious regime in Iran. I am also suprised at how religious all the women in the book are, their lives marked by the holy calendar, prayer and faith. I expected a secular outlook but it shows how 45 years of religous rule has made even moderate observation a sin.While Khomieni was a character and a qualified Shia cleric with all the right credentials for the position of Ayatollah( which of course does not mean i am a fan of him), Khamenei is a total fraud, a zealot and a unpleasent character who was very lucky to get where he is and is not a qualified Ayatollah. I shed no tears when President Raisi died in a chopper crash last month, his hands are soaked in innocents blood from the 1980s
Logger24 wrote: "Even a second-rank Austen is a superior performance."What do I know about Jane Austen? Measuring my opinion against critical consensus, not much. At least I don’t mistake her for the capital of Texas.
I’ve seen several adaptations of Pride and Prejudice, some several times, enough to be able to imagine that I’ve actually read it (which I haven’t). I jokingly say my favorites scenes in the novel are the carriage race (1940, Huxley) and Darcy going for a swim (1995, Davies).
The only Austen I’ve actually read are Northhanger Abbey and Persuasion, and contrary to every opinion I’ve ever read on the matter, I thought the former far superior to the latter. Admittedly, I’m a big fan of meta-fictional elements in novels so the riff on Gothic novels and the occasional allusion to the fact of NA being itself a novel were effective in winning my favor, but the dénouement of Persuasion did not quite, well, persuade me; I can easily believe that the author was still in the process of working it out when she died.
If I ever read another Austen, considering the above reaction I’ll probably go for another underrated one: Mansfield Park.
Bill wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Even a second-rank Austen is a superior performance."What do I know about Jane Austen? Measuring my opinion against critical consensus, not much. At least I don’t mistake her for..."
Austen is a local lass, her hometown only a few miles south west from me, though i havent read anything since school, which i must correct. I very much enjoyed the plots and ideas of Emma and P+P, and enjoyed the adaptions for tv and screen.
I must look into all the writers of her rough generation including Burney and Edgeworth. I was underwhelmed reading a Burney novel a few years back but it does take adjusting to the style and times of Regency or pre-Regency writing
Has anyone here read any novels by the Turkish writer Tanpinar?A few years ago i was delighted to see two of his best novels translated but then i became wary as the reviews seemed to reveal the most dreaded type of novel for me, the too clever by half, comic novel. I have never got on with books like this, so have not read any Tanpinar yet. Hopefully somebody here has?
More non political:Dawn, beautiful dawn, the Chief
This day, let it be well with me as I go;
Let it be well before me as I go;
Let it be well behind me as I go;
Let it be well beneath me as I go;
Let it be well above me as I go;
Let all I see be well as I go.
Translated from the Navajo by Louisa Wetherill
AB76 wrote: "Has anyone here read any novels by the Turkish writer Tanpinar?A few years ago i was delighted to see two of his best novels translated but then i became wary as the reviews seemed to reveal the ..."
No, but it strikes me that humour can be one of the most difficult things to translate from one language or culture to another.
I just finished PG Wodehouse's The Mating Season: I think it's one of the best I've read from that writer and trying to read up on it a little afterwards I found that it's been translated into French as La Saison d'Amour. I'm almost tempted to buy the French version just to see how the translator handled certain passages that I imagine would be very hard to do.
But Wodehouse is probably an extreme example as he's so mannered and so English.
Mod
Oh dear! I hope you don’t mean Captain Wentworth’s letter – “not soon to be recovered from” – which must be in the running for the most passionate letter in all of English literature. The novel is one of my favourites, for its melancholy tone, and Anne’s fortitude. But I agree that Austen might have decided to revise it had she lived. The plot hinges too much on the gossip in Westgate Buildings.
Northanger Abbey, pleasurable as it is, for the writing, seems to me flawed in one important respect. It is implausible that innocent, good-hearted Catherine can see at once the merits of Henry and Eleanor Tilney but takes so long to see through the bloviating John Thorpe and the simpering, affected, deceitful Isabella.
I also would probably go for Mansfield Park, whenever I get to another Austen, as I think it is likely to be much better than I remember it.
Mod
I think you would not be disappointed by Castle Rackrent, a comically sardonic take on the Anglo-Irish gentry at its worthless worst.
Berkley wrote: "it strikes me that humour can be one of the most difficult things to translate from one language or culture to another..."
I agree... but I think it depends to some extent on the type of comedy. Farce or 'situation comedy' - which depend on the circumstances in which the protagonists are placed - should be fairly easily translated; humour which arises from wordplay, puns etc. must be very difficult. Jokes where cultural knowledge is needed to get the point - somewhere in the middle.
A passing general comment on humour -all too often, humour in writing leads to the work being undervalued. There seems to be (amongst some/many people) an assumption that if a writer is funny, they can't be 'serious' - as if solemnity is a necessary prerequisite for "seriousness".
It isn't.
Edit: after writing that, I read an article in the Guardian in which film-maker Neil Jordan claims that former Irish taoiseach, Garret FitzGerald, praised his movie Michael Collins in exchange for payment from Warner Brothers.
Reading the text, I immediately got the impression that FitzGerald was joking - but that Jordan (who didn't know him, and is likely of a 'solemn' disposition) - didn't get it. This is certainly what FitzGerald's son claims later in the piece.
I know from personal experience that it is risky to joke with people you don't know well, as they may not catch on to the humorous intent... but some of us can't help ourselves! You can judge for yourselves:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/arti...
Mod
“I love to watch the fine mist of the night come on..."
Lovely.
It sent me to the original, Paysage — if anyone wants to compare the French, I'll post it in A place for a poem.
Logger24 wrote: "AB76 wrote: "...I must look into all the writers of her rough generation including Burney and Edgeworth. I was underwhelmed reading a Burney novel a few years back..."I think you would not be dis..."
its on my radar, thanks
Logger24 wrote: "Oh dear! I hope you don’t mean Captain Wentworth’s letter – “not soon to be recovered from” – which must be in the running for the most passionate letter in all of English literature. ...Northanger Abbey, pleasurable as it is, for the writing, seems to me flawed in one important respect. It is implausible that innocent, good-hearted Catherine can see at once the merits of Henry and Eleanor Tilney but takes so long to see through the bloviating John Thorpe and the simpering, affected, deceitful Isabella."
I’m afraid that Capt. Wentworth impressed me as a “too good true be true” type of hero found in genre Romance: the super-sensitive, courteous, and passionate alpha male. More a figure of fantasy than a character in a nominally realistic novel.
It’s been a while since I read it, but as I recall my reaction to Catherine Moreland’s behavior is that her Gothic novel education has led her to expect villainy to appear in on an extravagantly Byronic scale, not the quotidian backbiting and deceit she encounters in the social world.
an odd thing I have learnt today, from reading Inner Vision - An exploration of Art and the Brain, by Semir Zeki, the comprehension of sight isn't just in the same site in the brain, there are different parts of visual acuity sites spread throughout the brain, that are responsible for receiving different types of visual information. One part of the brain is responsible for perceiving movement, if this part of the brain is damaged a person can see anything that is perfectly still, but as soon as an element is moving, whatever the object that was being looked at vanishes. This is called akinetopia. One sufferer of this was unable to pour a cup of tea, as as soon as she poured it, she was no longer able to see it, and so no longer knew when to stop pouring. It has made me think quite a bit, reading the book. One thing I didn't realise is the importance of babies being introduced to new experiences. I took it for granted that it was a good idea, but I didn't think that early visual experience is so crucial to language ability in later life. Those that have been neglected at an early age have huge problems with language. He uses as an example Jean Jaques Rousseau's 'Le Savage de L'Aveyron about a a boy that was found, totally isolated in a forest, aged 12, in 1797. He was studied and well cared for afterwards but never learnt to speak more than a few words.
I had assumed that taking the sprog to interesting events in his babyhood was more for me, as he probably wouldn't remember it. Which is sort of true as he seems to remember stuff from around 3 years old, but it now seems that he was crucially all that time building up the resources, and ability, of future comprehension of language...
I'm reaching the last 30 pages of Zorba The Greek and its been a novel of constant thought and a few suprisesAmong the wit of the old Greek bull Zorba and the more cerebral narrator, there is some savage violence, some Cretan tradition and a Greece, mighty living Greece. It almost feels like the most Greek novel that Kazantzakis has written, trying to tie together parts of the nation that had only been part of unified Greece for a decade or more (like Macedonia and Crete)
Zorba, a native of Macedonia, is well drawn. He feels real and alive, i think we all know or have known a Zorba. A force of nature, of physical work and simple pleasures.
CCCubbon wrote: "A break from politics;"CCCubbon - thanks for that. I try and avoid political discussions myself. (Living in Russia as I do, the last two years have been extremely difficult and avoiding political discussions and limiting my news intake is something of a coping mechanism for me.)
I do like Baudelaire, and recently I've been reading Hugo's historic fantasy poems, the Legend of the Centuries.
The poet John Richmond has some nice translations of Victor Hugo poems on his website, along with a wealth of other translations. I enjoyed this one.
The Woman in the Moon
After Victor Hugo — La Lune
The gods on Mount Olympus were the terror of the Greeks.
Descending one day, Venus fell and badly bruised her cheeks,
and when I say her cheeks I’m not referring to her face.
The men down on the earth looked up and laughed at this disgrace.
‘The gods,’ they said, ‘whom normally we worship and revere
don’t strike us with such awe when we observe them from the rear.’
‘Right then,’ said Venus, ‘since you’ve seen the tender side of me,
I’m emigrating to a place where that is all you’ll see!’
The man who gazes at the moon still feels a sharp regret
that views of Venus’ bottom are the only views he’ll get.
Victor Hugo — La Lune
L’Olympe a dans l’azur des degrés inconnus;
Un jour, en descendant cet escalier, Vénus
Tomba, se fit des bleus ailleurs que sur la face,
Et les hommes en bas rirent; l’effroi s’efface
Quand on peut voir les dieux par leur autre côté.
—Soit, dit alors Vénus, pour leur rire effronté,
Les hommes, ayant eu cette bonne fortune,
Ne verront plus de moi que cela.—
C’est la lune
Sometimes a translation can be even better than the original. His translation of Hugo's The Lions, and the accompanying audio recording, I found deeply moving and a joy to read and listen to.
It is here:
https://www.myproperlife.com/node/112
Mod
CCCubbon - thanks for that. I try and avoid political discussions myself..."
Remember to look at the topic 'A place for a poem' (started by CC) for more poetry :)
FrustratedArtist wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "A break from politics;"CCCubbon - thanks for that. I try and avoid political discussions myself. (Living in Russia as I do, the last two years have been extremely difficult and a..."
It’s probably something to do with reaching a rather old age that I find much of politics childish and tiresome here in UK. A little straight and truthful talking would make me listen but I doubt that will happen.
So many wars during my lifetime yet there is no shortage of someone wanting something that someone else has and so often it’s the women and children killed.
Earth has greater problems. Climate change is not taken seriously enough.
Baudelaire has some really interesting quotes and I shall look carefully at the Hugo tomorrow. Had my eye injection this morning so cannot read so well and want to give it better attention.
Tam wrote: "an odd thing I have learnt today, from reading Inner Vision - An exploration of Art and the Brain, by Semir Zeki, the comprehension of sight isn't just in the same site in the brain, there are diff..."Hi Tam
Since the beginning of my eye problems, seven years ago next month, the complexities of our visual acuity have amazed me. After several months not seeing a single letter on the eye chart, just making out the chart with my bad eye, today I could make out the first top letter! A D.
Marvellous!
CCCubbon wrote: "FrustratedArtist wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "A break from politics;"CCCubbon - thanks for that. I try and avoid political discussions myself. (Living in Russia as I do, the last two years have been ..."
three of the 96yo old ladies at the day centre shared your sentiments CCC, all three of them, who have seen so much, said they didnt know things could get so bad in the world as they are now and they have very little time for politics in this election campaign
CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "an odd thing I have learnt today, from reading Inner Vision - An exploration of Art and the Brain, by Semir Zeki, the comprehension of sight isn't just in the same site in the brain, th..."Good news about that top line CC I can't read it without my specs but that is just short sight
Mod
Letters from his long-separated parents are the stimulus for interesting thoughts on his Anglo-Indian background, his lively and theatrical mother, who had learnt to speak perfect Urdu and Hindi, and his distant geologist father, a semi-stranger, in whose company he spent perhaps six months of his life in total.
He stops in isolated communities of Greeks, Turks, and every other ethnicity, many of them stranded the wrong side of a new Balkan border. In his rich style he describes the landscape, the history, the characters he meets, the folk songs, the food – e.g. pastourma, a sort of pemmican, with a rather startling recipe: first take a whole camel and put it in an olive press and squeeze it until you have removed every drop of moisture, every drop, then salt the skin and hang it on a tree branch to cure in the wind, in a cage, so the crows don’t get at it – and so on.
It breaks off fifty miles short of Constantinople. He is becoming prey to loneliness and dejection. After New Year on the Bosphorus he takes a tramp steamer to Mount Athos, where the story of his time in the monasteries, some twenty of them, is taken up in a contemporary journal, which I eventually leafed through as it is more description than reflection. He reads Don Juan, Childe Harold, Marino Faliero.
While it is lacks the magic of the first two volumes, the executors were right to publish.
While browsing through Colonel Roosevelt, the third volume of Edmund Morris' biography, I noted the following:"Your letter deeply touches me... There is not one of us in whom a devil does not dwell; at some time, on some point, that devil masters each of us... It is not having been in the Dark House, but having left it, that counts." -- Former President Theodore Roosevelt to poet Edwin Arlington Robinson, 1916.
Logger24 wrote: "In the end I enjoyed The Broken Road, the unfinished third volume of Patrick Leigh Fermor’s narrative of his foot journey across Europe. After an uncertain start, in which it feels as though he is ..."i am going to order this, thanks for the review!
Holly Vallance, ex-Neighbours pin up, now whispering in Nigel Farage's ear...unpleasent....Hasnt been a great election campaign so far, feels all a bit like it has lost its glamour since i was a kid following 1987 or 1992, or witnessing the wonderful 1997 election as my first i was able to vote in
I have the Chris Mullins diaries on the pile, recommended by my brother, they do look very interesting, a view of New Labour from the cheap seats...
AB76 wrote: "Holly Vallance, ex-Neighbours pin up, now whispering in Nigel Farage's ear...unpleasent....Hasnt been a great election campaign so far, feels all a bit like it has lost its glamour since i was a ..."
Maybe everyone needs a few days off from the.
frantic promising.
Now the Euros have started they’ll have to work even harder to get any attention from many. Not that last night’s match was worthy of the occasion.
AB76 wrote: "I have the Chris Mullins diaries on the pile, recommended by my brother, they do look very interesting, a view of New Labour from the cheap seats..."
Have you read this one AB? I can certainly recommend it, and it gives pause for thought.
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/m/ch...
for Establishment then, perhaps read Civil Service now?
CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Holly Vallance, ex-Neighbours pin up, now whispering in Nigel Farage's ear...unpleasent....Hasnt been a great election campaign so far, feels all a bit like it has lost its glamour s..."
always love the international tournaments, a lot less parochial than club football
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I have the Chris Mullins diaries on the pile, recommended by my brother, they do look very interesting, a view of New Labour from the cheap seats..."
Have you read this one AB? I can..."
yes and i loved it. discovered it via the New Statesman and it was a commute read, i think he wrote a sequel as well
it will be odd to go back 25 years in the diary when i get round to it, i was in my early to mid 20s and i quickly became suspicious of New Labour. I'm no pacifist but i opposed the Iraq War 100%, i just could see that Saddam wasnt bluffing, he was as bemused as most people were that his stagnating, decaying regime could be housing some WOMD which he didnt know about. I wouldnt say i felt sorry for him but few macho men have looked so confused as Saddam once the jungle drums of Blair, UK inetelligence, Bush and the CIA were beating loudly on the horizon..
in the first Gulf War we had a Kuwaiti refugee in my school and it was clear to us what had occurred and it was wrong. In 2002-3 there was zero reason to invade Iraq and then destroy the infastructure and government as well, the chaos remains...and not just the Kurds and Shia are suffering now, everyone is, the diverse North is no longer diverse with many Yazidi and Christians gone, while the malign influence of Iran is felt in every southern region. Historically Arab Shia's dislike and distrust Persian Shia's despite the shared faith but that division has become more blurred as the theocractic ideas of Iran influence Iraq more and more
Just started In A Lonely Place by Dorothy Hughes, from the new Penguin Crime and Espionage publications.I enjoyed The Blackbirder another of her novels, set in New Mexico and am looking foward to this. A rare adventure into crime novels for me,....
Mod
This consists of books featuring grumpy old people, mainly men. It was used in a discussion of A Man Called Ove.
So, any grumplit fans?
AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I have the Chris Mullins diaries on the pile, recommended by my brother, they do look very interesting, a view of New Labour from the cheap seats..."
Have you rea..."
There was reason for the 1st war, when they invaded Kuwait. As one US general famously said, the army won the war, the politicians lost the peace.
Have you read
https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/pro...
I'll leave you to make up your mind about it.
CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "an odd thing I have learnt today, from reading Inner Vision - An exploration of Art and the Brain, by Semir Zeki, the comprehension of sight isn't just in the same site in the brain, th..."Congratulations.
My enthusiasm at seeing the first top letter on the eye chart flipped me back seven years when this started! The injections control the swelling inside my eye that’s why my vision is so peculiar and changes constantly.The first test every month is for visual acuity and I haven’t been able to see any letters for some time so good to see the D.
Thanks anyway.
Years ago, I saw a film about British politics back in the Gaitskill/Macmillan era, No Love for Johnnie. Excellent film and cast. It was based on a very good political novel of the same title, whose author was Wilfred Feinburg, a Labour MP. Feinburg died young, in a motorcycle. Had he lived longer, he had the talent to have written a series of political novels.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I have the Chris Mullins diaries on the pile, recommended by my brother, they do look very interesting, a view of New Labour from the cheap seats..."
..."
When the allies stopped their pursuit of a beaten enemy, I remembered a quote from Julius Caesar, when he was asked why Pompey didn't press him when he was defeated:
"He does not know how to win wars."
As is often the case, I'm torn between reading A Very British Coup or watching the tv adapation, which apparently is also rated very highly. Probably I'll do both, eventually, assuming I like whichever one I try first but so far I continue to be paralysed with indecision.
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Ersatz TLS
Books mentioned in this topic
A Man Called Ove (other topics)Pride and Prejudice (other topics)
Northanger Abbey (other topics)
Persuasion (other topics)
Mansfield Park (other topics)
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“I love to watch the fine mist of the night come on,
The windows and the stars illumined, one by one,
The rivers of dark smoke pour upward lazily,
And the moon rise and turn them silver. I shall see
The springs, the summers, and the autumns slowly pass;
And when old Winter puts his blank face to the glass,
I shall close all my shutters, pull the curtains tight,
And build me stately palaces by candlelight.”
― Charles Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal