"Empire of Silence" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

This is now the official group read for November 2024.

Open spoilers starting from message #33.

A few questions to get us started:

1. What did you think of the world?
2. What did you think of the characters?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

[Cheryl L]

I'm on Chapter 44 of Empire of Silence and am enjoying it very much. The prose and plot keep me intrigued and curious about what's next for Hadrian.

I do like that Ruocchio just tells you what's going to happen in the first paragraph and then you discover how Hadrian gets to the point where he kills a sun. It seems out of character for our young protagonist.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I am on Chapter 46. I’m also enjoying it for the most part? I am struggling a little with the (view spoiler)[I’m a prisoner of my privilege stuff he keeps talking about. Especially since by now he’s experienced how the other half live. (hide spoiler)]

It does feel a little aimless in places? Like I hope we are working towards some sort of climax.

But otherwise enjoying it. The worldbuilding is excellent.

The audiobook narrator is great.

[Michelle]

Oh, I read that! Let me see if I wrote a review so I can refresh my mind...be right back.

[Michelle]

Yay, me! I did write a review. Sarah, I also thought there were some meandering parts, but also some that were very good. And Cheryl L., I mentioned inconsistencies with the behavior of the MC. Overall though it wasn't a bad book.

[Cheryl L]

Sarah wrote: "I am on Chapter 46. I’m also enjoying it for the most part? I am struggling a little with the [spoilers removed]

It does feel a little aimless in places? Like I hope we are working towards some so..."

I agree that it's hard to tell where the story is going in the middle of the first book. I think we're experiencing Hadrian's (view spoiler)[formative experiences, and I suspect that his helplessness on Emesh will be important later. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Cheryl L wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I am on Chapter 46. I’m also enjoying it for the most part? I am struggling a little with the [spoilers removed]

It does feel a little aimless in places? Like I hope we are working t..."

Yeah - I can definitely see how we’re framing it as a chronicle of Hadrian’s life. I just feel like (view spoiler)[there should be some way to frame each book so that even though we’re working towards the overall conflict of him becoming the suneater, we’re also following a plot arc within the book, whether that’s working towards going to Teukros, getting a starship, or just getting off Emesh, you know? (hide spoiler)]

Sorry- I know that’s super nitpicky of me! I guess I am just someone who likes to know what I’m rooting for.

[Olga]

Started reading yesterday evening, on chapter 9 now. Curious to see how this green, clumsy, sometimes too naive for his own good youth turns into the Sun eater.

[Cheryl L]

Olga wrote: "Started reading yesterday evening, on chapter 9 now. Curious to see how this green, clumsy, sometimes too naive for his own good youth turns into the Sun eater."

Halfway through the first book it's still impossible to tell!

I do like Hadrian quite a bit though.

[Cheryl L]

On Chapter 50 and pleased that we have a new character Valka, (view spoiler)[ who has the sense to call the Empire barbaric. I have definitely been feeling the same way. The Empire is definitely like a galactic, medieval society, which is an interesting mash-up. I know that Ruocchio is paying homage to Dune and other classic scifi. (hide spoiler)]

[Olga]

Got to Chapter 25.
(view spoiler)[That poor bastard… On the one hand I feel pity for him, because of his persistent bad luck. On the other hand I feel a bit difficult not to criticise him. He was trained in hand fighting and diplomacy for years, but he repeatedly can’t stand up for himself and makes strange decisions. I find it hard to connect with the character. I’m annoyed at him, if anything so far. Hope it gets better. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Olga wrote: "Got to Chapter 25.
[spoilers removed]"

Completely agree. I’m kinda guessing at where you’re at but I had the same questions. (view spoiler)[I understand he was outnumbered but to not even try to defend himself is questionable. Remember this when you get later in the book and it will make even less sense. (hide spoiler)]

[Olga]

I’m on Chapter 33 now, he’s just got to the (view spoiler)[ Colosso. And after all the previous non-battles this choice makes little sense. Plus he hid from blood tests for years and now came to a place he knew he might get one. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Olga wrote: "I’m on Chapter 33 now, he’s just got to the [spoilers removed]"

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was referring to, lol.

(view spoiler)[He couldn’t even try to defend himself in the earlier moment, but in the colosso he’s some super warrior who gives the Myrmidons hope. Come on. (hide spoiler)]

I know I sound like I’m whining, but there are parts I’m enjoying. Particularly the end of chapter 57!! Caught me by surprise.

[Cheryl L]

Olga wrote: "I’m on Chapter 33 now, he’s just got to the [spoilers removed]"

I think he was just beginning to feel desperate (view spoiler)[ after Cat's death. (hide spoiler)]

[Olga]

Cheryl L wrote: "I think he was just beginning to feel desperate [spoilers removed]"

Yes, it might well be the case.

[Olga]

On Chapter 44 and only now read the spoiler tags in the beginning of conversation. Totally agree with you Sarah and Cheryl. The meandering makes it difficult for me to get a sense of where the story is heading. It feels like (view spoiler)[ no plan Hadrian has ever comes to life. At what point does he actually learn not to make stupid mistakes? I get that he has a lifespan of centuries, but how three years in the gutters and almost a year as a myrmidon didn’t teach him anything so far? Maybe I’m being too harsh, but I see little difference between Hadrian who clumsily tried to escape his father and Hadrian who went to talk to alien prisoner out of curiosity.

I get that possibly the whole first book is going to be the formative stuff, but at what point does he start to actually form? There was a glimpse of growth and confidence when he had a plan, managed to survive for almost a year as a myrmidon and even keep Switch alive. He even had kinda badass plan of how to get a ship and get back to his father at the same time, but he just goes and destroys everything in like the next few pages. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I’m confused but invested :)

[Cheryl L]

Olga wrote: "On Chapter 44 and only now read the spoiler tags in the beginning of conversation. Totally agree with you Sarah and Cheryl. The meandering makes it difficult for me to get a sense of where the stor..."

I think we also have to remember that Hadrian is a very young man, only in his early 20s, and young people aren't known for making the best choices. He just doesn't have the wisdom yet to make long term plans and stick with them. He is young and impetuous.

[Will]

I’m on book four of the suneater series and in my opinion they get better with each entry. Empire of silence can seem a little slow at some points and perhaps meander at times (though i loved it) but things really pick up fast from book two, howling dark and then demon white which is amazing.

[Olga]

Chapter 76. Oh gosh! Why does THIS has to be (view spoiler)[ the first plan that Hadrian at least kinda successfully pulls off? (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I gotta be honest, I'm finding this glacial, and the competences and lack seems arbitrary in every sense.

(view spoiler)[ if you are used to being followed and watched everywhere, and are really good at sparring, how do you get surprised by a bike gang? how do you know military tactics but can't handle a duel, the one things we know he's done *at his own peril for years.* how did he go directly to torture? I don't get it and since nothing is going to plan or seemingly teaching him anything I'm curious why he's wasted so much paper on it. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "I gotta be honest, I'm finding this glacial, and the competences and lack seems arbitrary in every sense.

[spoilers removed]"

Yeah this bothered me too. (General book spoilers? Not sure where you are at Allison- I’d guess this is to the halfway ish mark?) (view spoiler)[the way things felt like arbitrary road blocks.

I was actually really annoyed at the scene where he wakes up in the doctor’s office on Emesh and was just dumped there by his crew, and then later we find out it’s been 35 standard years.

Wtf was the crew doing for 35 years? Are we supposed to believe his mother hired an incompetent dishonest (incompetent wasn’t really the right word) crew? If we are supposed to believe it was in fact some kind of pirate attack shouldn’t it have been foreshadowed a little better? Did pirates really ferry his frozen body around all that time? It really felt like, as a reader, we were just making up roadblocks because obviously he couldn’t go on to be a scholiast, he has to be a suneater. But that particular instance made me irrationally angry because I felt like it was not plotted or well thought out and the explanation was beyond unsatisfying. (hide spoiler)]

[Olga]

Sarah, I was also annoyed by lots of things, but this instance seemed pretty explained later. A bit. (view spoiler)[ The whole crew was "on ice" for the trip. They might have unfrozen themselves and changed the route (because it took them more time than initially planned and they ended up in the Emesh system, that wasn't initially in the plan). When the ship got to Emesh, the crew was somehow gone, only Had left in the freezer, so the junk yard guys just threw him away. What actually happened to the crew stays a mystery and Hadrian winders about it repeatedly. I suppose it will emerge in a later book though. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Olga wrote: "Sarah, I was also annoyed by lots of things, but this instance seemed pretty explained later. A bit. [spoilers removed]"

Thanks Olga. I understood the attempt at explanation and the speculation required there… (view spoiler)[I just think the way the book is written with Hadrian reflecting back from thousands of years, if it does get revealed later there was no reason for him not to reveal it now. Hadrian breaks the fourth wall all the time to add his present day thoughts to the context of the past. So not to have it explained in a “I would come to find later the crew had all (insert reason here)” just seemed lazy to me? And it kinda cheapened the impact for me.

Especially because by then we already get the sense that Hadrian is only competent when it serves the storyline, like in the Colosso vs fights in the street. So it felt like it was just going to be a free for all. (hide spoiler)]

I still technically have 40ish pages left. End of the school year has been so hectic. I do think it ends stronger than it begins.

[Kaladin]

I'm really enjoying the Sun Eater series. The world building, the characters etc. works for me. Just got a copy of Disquiet Gods. Can't wait.
How's the first book working out for you all?

[Cheryl L]

Kaladin wrote: "I'm really enjoying the Sun Eater series. The world building, the characters etc. works for me. Just got a copy of Disquiet Gods. Can't wait.
How's the first book working out for you all?"

I am also enjoying Empire of Silence and looking to following Hadrian's character arc.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I finished. I agree with a lot of what Allison said. But I also understand the appeal. I feel like truly epic stories only come along so often and this slots right in with the size and scope. The world feels large and it feels lived in.

But i think on a technical level the book has a lot of issues. I think my biggest overall complaint, is that (view spoiler)[Hadrian’s change in character just doesn’t feel legitimate. I could love a story like this with a character who slowly becomes more and more jaded, less and less morally upstanding. But I never really bought in to the reasons why he was changing his principles. The reasoning felt paper thin to me. Same with his fighting skills. Sometimes he’s great sometimes he won’t even lift a finger to defend himself. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway. Highly recommend the audio book. That guy made it for me. He was much easier to listen to then the book was to eye read. Unsure if I’ll continue? It seems like most agree this one was really good so I’m not super confident later books will turn around the issues I have with this one.

[Kaladin]

Cheryl L wrote: "Kaladin wrote: "I'm really enjoying the Sun Eater series. The world building, the characters etc. works for me. Just got a copy of Disquiet Gods. Can't wait.
How's the first book working out for y..."

Good to hear. I hope you'll enjoy the rest of the series too. 👍

[Kaladin]

Sarah wrote: "I finished. I agree with a lot of what Allison said. But I also understand the appeal. I feel like truly epic stories only come along so often and this slots right in with the size and scope. The w..."

The audio books are so well done. I enjoyed them too. As for the series, it always comes down to how well something works for us or not. I've had that with a couple of popular books. Came well recommended but I couldn't get into it.

[Sarah]

Wish I could get it on audio book!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Sarah it’s on Hoopla if you have access to it!

[Sarah]

I know Allison said that too! But my Hoopla only shows The Lesser Devil and Queen Amid Ashes 🤔

[Melanie, the neutral party]

It's also on Everand (formerly scribd).

[Melanie, the neutral party]

[chapter 5] I'm early on the book and it started with a lot of exposition, when. I'm finally settling into it. It is quite a big tomb.

[Beatrice]

I admit I had some trouble at the beginning with the large amount of exposition, but eventually, I couldn’t put the book down. It was a lot to get through though, over 700 pages!

I’ll have to read the rest of the series now. I’m so curious to hear about how he kills the Cielcin, how he becomes the “sun eater,” if we ever hear what happened to Gibson. Poor Gibson 😢

[Beatrice]

The world-building is truly impressive. It feels like a world you can explore and get truly lost in. A modern epic.

[Chris]

This one was a slog for me - too much description and introspection. The story was OK, but it didn't need ~750 pages (~26 hours of audio) to tell. (That's not to mention that the overall story is barely getting started.) Being stuck inside Hadrian's head didn't help.

[Mai]

Not going to lie, I thought Hadrian was a whiner.

[Cheryl L]

Hadrian seems like a typical self-absorbed 20-year-old to me. His notes from his future self make me believe that he doesn't stay that way. Perhaps that's why I'm intrigued to continue the series.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I also found Hadrian a frustrating character to follow, HOWEVER, I agree with Cheryl, there is a part of me that does still want to continue because I think his character has potential to become more complex/interesting since we know his future.

But it is kind of a drag to spend 700 pages of set up with him. 😂

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Setting aside the issues (and there are quite a few) with Hadrian's character devolvement, I do feel this story has a few messages worth hanging on to.

One is about how to hang on to your own identity against the overwhelming force of Empire. Hadrian's talents and training couldn't help him escape the pathways set up at his birth. He was consistently the happiest when (view spoiler)[he was in any king of scholarly or teaching role, which was his truest desire (hide spoiler)].

The other, though tropey, is what kind of sentience merits value ... and basic human rights. It is presented in a unique way and the alien cultures were interesting to learn about.

Question: Is Hadrian a reliable narrator?
my answer: (view spoiler)[I think not. The whole thing is in past tense and establishes @ the top it is to justify what he becomes. I feel like he may be writing his own victors version of this story to soften some of his death death toll (hide spoiler)].

[Nicci]

I enjoyed the blending of medieval culture with a futuristic society as a setting.

Hadrian annoyed me. It was fascinating seeing how he couldn't see reality. He is a spoiled, privileged, too arrogant in his thinking his way is always correct. Amazingly, he didn't get it. No one respected him except Tor Gibson.

I read the book waiting for a character change that didn't happen.

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

I just kept thinking it was like Shakespeare in space. Everything was epic, even when it wasn't.

I enjoyed it somewhat but I doubt I will read the next one.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

That's a succinct way of putting it Hank. As usual I agree.

[Christopher]

Yeah - I finally finished this after 6 months.

It felt overly long and descriptive when it didn't need to be.

I got through it and I see people saying the series gets better as it goes, but do not feel like I need to rush out to read the next one.

[Bonnie]

Sarah wrote: "I know Allison said that too! But my Hoopla only shows The Lesser Devil and Queen Amid Ashes 🤔"

I think different libraries pay for different "levels" of Hoopla? Maybe @heyT could explain how it works

[Bonnie]

Hank wrote: "I just kept thinking it was like Shakespeare in space. Everything was epic, even when it wasn't.
I enjoyed it somewhat but I doubt I will read the next one."

Agree with several folks on here. It was a little too long. I liked it okay and am mildly curious to to see how Hadrian goes on to become an Emperor (and something mysterious with his mother?). But because there is so much to read in this world and these books are quite long... Well.

I liked the plucky parts about escaping from his home planet to become a "Jesuit" and how he utilized his knowledge of the poor populace to put his fighting team together.
The illness of his poverty-stricken friend did not move me as much as it should have, I assume due to the writing not grabbing me.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Not that anyone asked for my two cents, but I felt kinda meh about book 1, was definitely in the too long camp…

I did pick up book 2 this year and had a much better time with it. Some of the stuff in book 2 was wild. It felt like watching the OG Star Wars trilogy for the first time.

I’m now actually kind of excited for book 3.

I do still think their length is their greatest downfall, Ruocchio is wordy and I don’t think he needs as many words as he uses to tell these stories, but they feel unique.