In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust - General Chat

[Roman Clodia]

We will be reading In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust through 2025, with roughly half a volume per month. I'll post a reading schedule closer to the time.

In the meantime, this thread is for general chat, questions, suggestions, or anything else you want to say before we embark on our Proustian journey.

[Roman Clodia]

One of the first questions is which translation?

There are various free translations around but they tend to be based on the old Scott Moncrieff and Terence Kilmartin version (or just the Moncrieff without Kilmartin's revisions). Personally, I find this 'flowery' with an inevitable Edwardian tinge.

There is also the newish Penguin Modern Classics edition which has a different translator for each volume (under a general editorship so it still works as a whole): the first volume is translated by the great Lydia Davis. It is much cleaner than Moncrieff and brings out more of the original's sardonic voice and comedy.

Here's a link which makes the case for both translations so feel free to make your own choice: https://research.lib.buffalo.edu/prou...

Personally, I'm sticking with the new Penguin and will be dipping in and out of the French depending on time but it's always interesting to have people reading different translations so choose what works for you.

[Roman Clodia]

Susan has also raised the question of Proust on audio: any recommendations or thoughts can be posted here.

[Ben]

Sounds like it will be worthwhile for me to sample the new Penguin edition. My efforts were with the Moncrieff translation.

[Dianne]

Wonderful news! I have tried and failed to finish this a couple of times. Third time will be a charm here!

[Susan]

On the buddy read thread, we were discussing some pre-reading - not that we are taking this seriously!

Judy inspired me to read Proust in lockdown and she suggested I read How Proust Can Change Your Life which acts as a short biography and gives context.

I also found: Clara Reads Proust which I think sounds a lot of fun.

[Roman Clodia]

Clara Reads Proust sounds charming - count me in!

[Susan]

Shall we do November or December? I found How Proust Can Change Your Life to be a quick (around 200 pages) introduction to his life and the background to his work. However, other people may have different suggestions? I do think it definitely helps to have an idea of what is going on. Some of Proust is quite challenging. I do remember one never-ending dinner party where I felt I would never find my way out!

[Debra]

I read Swan's Way (Moncrieff translation) a few years ago and would love to read the entire series start to finish. I didn't think about translations at the time, but will check out the various options.

[Susan]

I also read the Moncrieff translation, Debra. Keen to use Audible this time, but only the first two volumes are available of that translation. There is a full Audible series narrated by Neville Jason. If anyone has listened, please let me know what you thought?

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "Shall we do November or December? I found How Proust Can Change Your Life to be a quick (around 200 pages) introduction to his life and the background to his work."

November sounds good.

I also remember that endless dinner party! And yes, I agree that it helps to have a sense of what Proust is doing, just as it helps give context to other modernists like Woolf and Joyce.

Here's an article on the main biographies: I'd like to read one, will check what's available at the library:

https://research.lib.buffalo.edu/prou...

[Susan]

So, to recap:

Clara Reads Proust November

A biography in December?

[Susan]

Or does it make more sense to do the biography in November and then the lighter read in December?

I don't mind nice, dark winter reads, but I know a lot of people like happy books over Christmas!

[Roman Clodia]

I'm easy about the order: having time off over Christmas always gives me more reading time but I'm happy to go with a general consensus.

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Like many I found the Moncrieff translation a bit dull and prissy. There was a partial set - it may be completed by now-of new translations that worked better for me.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
is part of that set. Please note, not every book has the same translator.

Related reading: Lost Time: Lectures on Proust in a Soviet Prison Camp I enjoyed the content, plus the back story makes of these lectures that much more meaningful.

Proust lite: The Lemoine Affair. This is a very short read . Proust as a comedian, making fun of himself. A lite pastiche having fun with a number of other writers. No I did not get them all, but it is fun.

If you can find them, the illustrated novels In Search of Lost Time: Swann's Way: A Graphic Novel are beautiful. Much shorter to read and some of the visuals are more powerful than the words. All of her books may not be in English translation. The ones I found I more than enjoyed.

[Susan]

They both look great, Phrodrick.

I can sense my Proust obsession reawakening...

[Sonia]

Don't think Proust is for me, but the pre-reading sounds interesting. Clara reads Proust looks a fun WIT read.

[Roman Clodia]

Phrodrick wrote: "Like many I found the Moncrieff translation a bit dull and prissy. There was a partial set - it may be completed by now-of new translations that worked better for me.

'Prissy' sums up my feeling too. The Collier that you recommend is the Penguin Modern Classics edition that is my choice as well - and yes, the series is complete now: In Search of Lost Time: The Prisoner and the Fugitive v. 5 (In Search of Lost Time 5)

Thanks for your other recommendations too. I hope you and others will join in the discussions even if you're not reading Proust with us.

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "I can sense my Proust obsession reawakening..."

And me!

[Susan]

Did you have a biography in mind, RC?

[Roman Clodia]

I'm tempted by Marcel Proust: A Life but will want to get it from the library:

This book is a magisterial account of the life and times of Marcel Proust, one of the greatest literary voices of the twentieth century. Based on a host of recently available letters, memoirs, and manuscripts, it sheds new light on Proust's character, his development as an artist, and his masterpiece In Search of Lost Time (long known in English as Remembrance of Things Past). The biography also sets Proust's life in the decadent artistic and social context of the French fin de sihcle and the years leading up to World War I. The glittering Parisian world of which Proust was a part was also home to such luminaries as Anatole France, Jean Cocteau, and Andri Gide. William Carter brings this vibrant social world to life while he explores the inner world of Proust's intellectual and artistic development, as well as his most intimate personal experience. Carter examines Proust's passionate attachment to his mother, his deep love for the scenes of his youth, his flirtation with Parisian high society, his complicated sexual desires, and his irrevocable commitment to literary truth and shows how all these played out in the making of his great novel. In the book's abundance of detail, its wealth of anecdotes, quoted letters, and recovered conversations many of them appearing in English for the first time Proust comes alive as never before.

[Susan]

That's a long biography, but looks good.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, I think the two scholarly biogs are both close to 1000 pages but I'm adept at skimming where I want. I like the idea of this one filling out the social context of this period in Paris and France more generally, as well as discussing the fiction. As we've both read it before and have a sense of the shape of the book, I'll be keen to get some insight into Proust's thinking.

I know so little about his life other than his illness so eager to learn more.

[David]

I’ve only read the Moncrieff, and that was years ago when I was a different reader.

What would you recommend for the translation, RC?

Sadly, I don’t read in French.

[David]

I see I missed some comments about the translation upthread! I’m glad to see there’s a complete alternative to the Moncrieff.

[Judy]

I don't think I'll read Proust again at the moment but I loved reading the books in 2016 (I can't believe it was that long ago!!) and will follow the discussion with interest. I really liked the Moncrieff/Kilmartin translation.

Susan, I think it must have been someone else who suggested How Proust Can Change Your Life as I don't think I'd heard of it. Would you recommend it?

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

This is out of print, is neither a bio of Proust nor exactly intended to be read with Lost Time. It is a slightly salty history of this same time period and these same people. It is sooooo much fun. A number of people who are considered, known or otherwise thought to be inspiration for Proust are in here, but mostly it is fun.
Elegant Wits and Grand Horizontals

For example, a Grand Horizontal is pretty much what you think if you care to think naughty.

[Sonia]

Phrodrick wrote: "This is out of print, is neither a bio of Proust nor exactly intended to be read with Lost Time. It is a slightly salty history of this same time period and these same people. It is sooooo much fun..."

It is accessible through the Internet Archive.

[Barbara]

I read that decades ago and loved it. Isn't it by Cornelia Otis Skinner who wrote Our Hearts were Young and Gay?

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Barbara wrote: "I read that decades ago and loved it. Isn't it by Cornelia Otis Skinner who wrote Our Hearts were Young and Gay?"

yup thats her

[Greg]

I'm reading Volume 1, the Penguin Books edition, translated by Lydia Davis.

[Hester]

I also have the Lydia David translation ..and my library has a copy of Elegant Wits and Grand Horizontals ...I read The Man in the Red Coat by Julian Barnes recently , which explores the same period, and can recommend it .

[Susan]

Judy wrote: "I don't think I'll read Proust again at the moment but I loved reading the books in 2016 (I can't believe it was that long ago!!) and will follow the discussion with interest. I really liked the Mo..."

Ah, maybe it was suggested on the group you mentioned, Judy? It was a potted history of Proust and his work, which gave some useful background. Very useful if people don't fancy the long biographies that RC has mentioned - although I quite like a long biography myself!

[Susan]

There are second hand copies of Elegant Wits and Grand Horizontals available through Amazon, Abebooks ebay.

What do we think of narrowing down the pre-reads to five? A biography to run over 2 months and 3 short reads? That would mean August-December as a 'run up' to the real thing.

Biography: Marcel Proust A Live
Clara Reads Proust

Other suggestions:
The Lemoine Affair
Lost Time: Lectures on Proust in a Soviet Prison Camp
Elegant Wits and Grand Horizontals
The Man in the Red Coat
How Proust Can Change Your Life

I would suggest the biography over August/September
Lighter reads Oct/Nov/Dec and then embarking on Proust 'proper' next year.

However, just a suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

[Roman Clodia]

I love the idea of this prep reading to get us in the mood for Proust.

Reading a long biography over two months of the summer would be perfect for me, and I'm also up for Clara Reads Proust and The Man in the Red Coat.

I'll probably skip Botton just because his approach hasn't really worked for me in the past but I'd be interested in following what others think of his Proust book.

On historical background to Paris, I'll throw into the mix of suggestions:

Twilight of the Belle Epoque: The Paris of Picasso, Stravinsky, Proust, Renault, Marie Curie, Gertrude Stein, and Their Friends through the Great War

When Paris Sizzled: The 1920s Paris of Hemingway, Chanel, Cocteau, Cole Porter, Josephine Baker, and Their Friends

I haven't read either.

[Sonia]

Has anyone read The Man in the Red Coat? I enjoyed Barnes' Sense of an Ending, but hated Flaubert's Parrot. I ended up finishing it by skim reading it to see if there were any gems I was missing. (I didn't find any). It was not a book for me. So might I enjoy it, or will I resent buying it?

[Roman Clodia]

I'm not usually a Barnes fan, though I don't dislike him, so definitely a library book for me. In fact, all my suggestions are library books, including the one below as they're all around the £20 mark on Amazon.

Another suggestion for the mix is: Proust's Duchess: How Three Celebrated Women Captured the Imagination of Fin-de-Siecle Paris

[Sonia]

A library book could be the answer to my Barnes dilemma.

[Susan]

I have the Barnes book but haven't read it. Must have been a deal of the day at some point.

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Speaking as one who has recently been there. Getting some background first seems very reasonable. I needed the occasional look, out side of The Lost Times books .
A straight through 1-7 (6) book read may over load some readers.

[Susan]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm not usually a Barnes fan, though I don't dislike him, so definitely a library book for me. In fact, all my suggestions are library books, including the one below as they're all around the £20 m..."

Again, Proust's Duchess looks good, but not on kindle and expensive. Cheaper on AbeBooks.

How many pre-reads are we thinking of?

[Roman Clodia]

I wasn't suggesting we do all of these, just floating some suggestions to see if there are any takers - also so we have a collection of books that people might want to explore individually.

I think we've agreed on Clara and Red Coat, so there is room for one more? Botton, if that's what most people fancy?

[Susan]

I am unsure we will need Botton if we do the biography, but it could be a good alternative if people don't want to read such a long biography?

I am good with Clara and Red Coat and it's a good idea that if anyone wants to chose other titles, they can comment here?

Inspired suggestions, RC.

[Susan]

Some other quick reads:
Letters to the Lady Upstairs

Days of Reading

[Susan]

Some other suggestions:

Proust Among the Stars

The World According to Proust

Living and Dying with Marcel Proust

I am impressed at the range of choices!

[Roman Clodia]

Ha, yes, so many books about reading Proust!

I've read Living and Dying which is by Christopher Prendergast who is the editor of the Penguin Modern Classics translation we've mentioned above: I enjoyed it a lot as it's essays on individual aspects of Proust but it does contain spoilers so may be best for readers who either don't mind or who've read it before as you have, Susan. I think it would make a great companion to a re-read.

My review: www.goodreads.com/review/show/4332299713

[Alwynne]

I feel a bit inadequate as never actually read any background material on Proust, just Proust. I agree with R.C. and others the Moncrief has a distinctly antiquated feel and I much preferred the Penguin translations. Also second the rec for the Czapski, haven't gotten around to reading it yet but thought his Inhuman Land: Searching for the Truth in Soviet Russia, 1941-1942 was fascinating. Also he came across really well, I totally warmed to him, which is totally irrelevant but I rarely find myself that drawn to people through their writing.

And Nigey don't worry that Proust didn't work for you, there are some very tedious stretches, although if you push pass those some surprisingly gripping episodes, and some striking imagery.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Alwynne, that's good to know


I didn't give it a fair shake as I got bored so quickly and, having then leafed through the enormous volume, could not see how or when it was going to get any better. My loss no doubt. Listening on audio might be the way to go. So I may yet give it a go when the time comes. Keeping my options open for now

[Roman Clodia]

For those of you who remember Sid, Proust was the first book we tried to buddy-read together... only he loathed it so much, he abandoned it within the first few pages! It ended up being an in-joke of how our tastes could veer so widely apart at times.

I do think the opening is slow (even though I love Marcel's voice) - maybe if you want to try again, Nigey and anyone else, join us at the second part of the first volume, Swann in Love which, as you can see, has even been published separately. It's told as a narrative rather than Marcel's musings on his early childhood.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks RC


That's also v helpful. I hadn't realised there was such a contrast between the volumes

Sid and I shared very similar tastes so no surprise to learn that he found it so unappealing