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A playbook to defeat your enemy's country without fighting a war: Your ideas?
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Ian
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Apr 13, 2024 04:20PM
It is interesting that Michigan State University is a "Russian friend". We agree the USSR ceased to exist, but to say it was dissolved is a bit of an exaggeration. The guys that wanted power simply tore it up.
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To be fair, accusing American colleges and universities of harboring Communist tendencies is not wrong.
J. wrote: "To be fair, accusing American colleges and universities of harboring Communist tendencies is not wrong."*raises eyebrow* Do elaborate.
Anti-Capitalism On U.S. University Campuses: ‘The Culture War Is Fought Dirty’https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzi...
That article is more than 4 years old.And what the hell? Since post 93, everything has been off-topic, hijacking this thread for your own purposes. This will probably piss people off, but I'd really like a response to my question about how to defeat your enemy's country without fighting a war. Has anyone read Sun Tzu? Is our country being weakened to the point that no war will have to be fought? If so, how is it being done?
Nobody is going to defeat the US, but the US might do it to itself. The weakness for the US, in my opinion, is its rapidly growing debt. It is a double-edged sword because the US prints the reserve currency, and it doesn't have to pay anything - it just prints - but surely it can't keep doing this forever. I think something has to give. So those who want to defeat the US will be thinking that right now they should do nothing directly to the US and await further developments.
I guess I'm going to have to talk to myself on this one for my peace of mind. China is buying up property in the US close to our defense systems and elsewhere. China is stealing our technology. Unvetted people are coming over our southern border and disappearing, many of them young Chinese males. The Mexican cartels have control of our border and are trafficking drugs supplied by China that are killing hundreds of thousands of our people. Seeing a pattern here?
The southern border is something the US government should be attending to, altho0ough in another thread Nik indicated that we have no right to stop people from selling drugs. Personally, I think the drug traffickers should be strongly dealt with.
Scout wrote: "....Seeing a pattern here?..."Do you think it might be an organized infiltration to build a trojan horse?
Ian wrote: "....in another thread Nik indicated that we have no right to stop people from selling drugs..."I think a foreigner shouldn't impose his/her rules of the hosts
But the Israelis are imposing their rules on the Palestinians, who were there for centuries
No, we don't. Once again - they are self-governed. We don't care apart for our security. They enjoy Islam to the fullest, can marry a few women, shoot their daughters, if they go out with anyone before marriage, be corrupt or virtuous and so on....
Unfortunately, a military occupation is also responsible for law and order. Of course it can have the occupied carry out much of the enforcement. Thus in France during WW II French police continued to enforce the law but ultimately the guys with the guns had the last say. In the West Bank, the guys who drive around in armoured vehicles and have the ability to exercise the ultimate force are Israelis and the West Bank authorities have no significant authority over Israeli "settlers". You can deny it all you like, but the ultimate force lies with Israel
You'd extremely rarely see Israeli forces entering Ramallah, Bethlehem or Nablus, only when it's a hot pursuit or a pinpointed operation, usually coordinated with the Palestinian authority. They could've had their state a long time ago, however they always choose victimhood and violence. Maybe one day. It's in our interest too.
Ian, nice way to hijack this thread again and turn it to your own purposes. Don't bring another thread into this discussion. If you want to antagonize Nik and talk about war, you've created plenty of other places to do so. Go there. Better yet, create your own thread entitled "I'm right and you're wrong, Nik. I don't give a crap about Ukrainian citizens' freedom or the atrocities committed by Hamas. I just want to be an as**ole, and I'm good at it." Come back here without commenting on the topic, and you will be ignored by me.This topic is not one of concern to many people. I will say to Nik, yes, a Chinese Trojan Horse, and it looks effective, especially as TikTok is encouraging the protests against Israel. Just another way China is destroying us from within. They won't have to fight a war with us. Trump sees this. Biden is their wimpy pushover.
Is TikTok encouraging protests, or simply offering a platform?As for wimpy Biden, in the spirit of a free market I gather he is demanding TikTok be "sold" to US businesses. Given the sale is forced, the price would be fairly low. Of course, the Chinese business may not sell. Will it be confiscated?
Scout wrote: "I guess I'm going to have to talk to myself on this one for my peace of mind. China is buying up property in the US close to our defense systems and elsewhere. China is stealing our technology. Unv..."Perhaps your blog was too hard for the brains, Scout. Or perhaps there are no other ways than force of arms. But there is another possibility: China has increased its gold reserves for the 17th consecutive month and now totals 2,262 tonnes. The current thinking is that China is storing up gold prior to an invasion of Taiwan to offset sanctions. Or is China looking even further ahead? The country has US dollar reserves of 3,246 trillion. Imagine what would be the result of China offloading half that amount at half the value. Dollar crash. Wall St. crash, other countries offloading their dollar reserves and buying gold -which China has gobbled up (but the US has massive gold reserves too)
It is a chilling scenario given the enormous deficit in the US economy.
Migration is another topic. It is a problem facing all Western nations, but Chinse spies? I didn't know all those Central American
herds massing in Mexico had Chinese among them. I don't think China needs to send spies to filch technological know-how as Japan did after WW11 using the generous US student visas.
That's a fascinating post, PK. The Chinese gold situation is news to me but coming from you, an ultra reliable source of the highest order, I'll take it as fact.
People in this excellent group underestimate the rise of BRICS...
Papaphilly, sitting in his ivory tower in the Big Apple, listening to prog rock (and to a lesser extent J, well equipped to survive Western economic collapse but complacent of US military power), don't realise what's coming.
Russia's economy in trouble? Nothing could be further from the truth.
China's economy in trouble? No chance. Playing the long game is ingrained within their national character. They will take out the US $ whenever they see fit.
Unfortunately, that will take out the UK too. We should be distancing ourselves from the US and aligning ourselves with other nations ASAP. Unfortunately, our leadership is blind to this new economic reality.
People in this excellent group underestimate the rise of BRICS...
Papaphilly, sitting in his ivory tower in the Big Apple, listening to prog rock (and to a lesser extent J, well equipped to survive Western economic collapse but complacent of US military power), don't realise what's coming.
Russia's economy in trouble? Nothing could be further from the truth.
China's economy in trouble? No chance. Playing the long game is ingrained within their national character. They will take out the US $ whenever they see fit.
Unfortunately, that will take out the UK too. We should be distancing ourselves from the US and aligning ourselves with other nations ASAP. Unfortunately, our leadership is blind to this new economic reality.
What the US seemingly failed to realize as it started manufacturing dollars was that China was buying them up, mainly to ensure that it could sell more stuff to the US. It is not only dollars that the US might have trouble with - it is the supply of all the stuff that Western manufacturing depends on to some extent. Thus most of the basic chemical industries that make necessary intermediates are now in China or India, and there are more than 50,000 different chemicals. These may be unglamorous, but take them out of supply and a whole lot of other industries simply close down. Leaving the manufacture of key intermediates to China was not strategically sensible, and unlike mechanical industries, starting up a chemical manufacturing process takes months, if not years per chemical.
P.K., here are some articles about the increase in Chinese immigrants in 2023-2024:"I’m a scholar of migration and China. What I find most remarkable in these figures is the speed with which the number of Chinese migrants is growing. Nearly 10 times as many Chinese migrants crossed the southern border in 2023 as in 2022. In December 2023 alone, U.S. Border Patrol officials reported encounters with about 6,000 Chinese migrants, in contrast to the 900 they reported a year earlier in December 2022." https://umbc.edu/stories/chinese-migr...
Also, "So far in fiscal year 2024, the pace of Chinese migrants crossing the border hasn’t slowed. CBP agents encountered more than 18,000 in the first four months of the fiscal year. In 2021, that number was just 450."
This admittedly biased article claims that thousands of mostly male Chinese of fighting age have come into the country and "If they were armed and uniformed it would be an official act of war. Now, dressed in civilian clothes and not carrying weapons, it is only an unofficial invasion. And they haven’t fired a shot." He goes on to ask what the Chinese would do if that many military-aged men crossed the border into China.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/02/...
Scout wrote: "P.K., here are some articles about the increase in Chinese immigrants in 2023-2024:"I’m a scholar of migration and China. What I find most remarkable in these figures is the speed with which the ..."
Interesting articles, Scout, if we ignore the one of the Boston Herald which is not even subtle politicking but is designed to scare people to support your hero Trump.
The UBC article is a further insight into what is happening all over the world regarding illegal migration. It is a big problem, getting bigger all the time, for all economically stable Western countries; here in the UK it is having an exhausting effect on the ability of the government to deal with it and will undoubtedly be a major topic in this years election, likewise in your country in November. too. The UK government has devised a plan to send the boat people who cross the Channel and arrive illegally to Uganda for processing (ha, ha) This has caused a political storm but EU countries are now considering finding a third country by which to do the same. As your article shows us, desperate people will always find a way around the rules and perhaps only the collapse of those successful economies will stop it happening.
But I wouldn't worry about Chinese immigrant battalions taking arms in your country; I am sure they are more interested in finding work and doing what they love, making money, than making war.
Ian wrote: "What the US seemingly failed to realize as it started manufacturing dollars was that China was buying them up, mainly to ensure that it could sell more stuff to the US. It is not only dollars that ..."Another insight into economic power, Ian.
Beau wrote: "That's a fascinating post, PK. The Chinese gold situation is news to me but coming from you, an ultra reliable source of the highest order, I'll take it as fact.People in this excellent group und..."
Thanks, Beau. What we need to do is start exporting The Beatles again; 'All we ned is love..'
Hey, P.K., I said the Boston Herald article was biased. Just included it so you'd see where some of the rumors are coming from. I'm not sure that the Chinese immigrants are so innocuous. How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Scout wrote: "Hey, P.K., I said the Boston Herald article was biased. Just included it so you'd see where some of the rumors are coming from. I'm not sure that the Chinese immigrants are so innocuous. How did yo..."Did I arrive at that conclusion, Scout. Or do you mean that making money is innocuous? I once wrote a novel way back before Chinese communism by any other name became almost respectable. It was set in Hong Kong with some Chinese characters and I made the same point then: they really do like making money more than anything and will gamble their mothers if they thought they could win. My conclusion then was that, by heart, they are the opposite of communism. But that was in Hong Kong. The mainland Chinese have endured generations of
brain washing. But genetics are stronger than education so one day we might see some change.
Well, P.K, you said "But I wouldn't worry about Chinese immigrant battalions taking arms in your country; I am sure they are more interested in finding work and doing what they love, making money, than making war." Aren't you saying the Chinese immigrants' intentions are innocuous? Sounds like it to me.
Scout wrote: "Well, P.K, you said "But I wouldn't worry about Chinese immigrant battalions taking arms in your country; I am sure they are more interested in finding work and doing what they love, making money, ..."Yes, their intentions probably are - but they do have the fault-line of not mixing with other groups or sharing their money.
So are we thinking that China doesn't have a plan to defeat us from within? That they don't have spies stealing our tech? They're not buying property adjacent to our military bases? They're not providing Mexico with means to manufacture lethal drugs that come over our border that Biden opened, which kill hundreds of thousands of Americans? That the student demonstrations against Israel aren't influenced by TikTok, a Chinese company? That the CCP isn't sending Chinese people over our border by the thousands?Students from China retained their position in 2023 as the largest group of international students in the United States. Despite a slight dip, they are still the leading country of origin for foreign students pursuing an education in the U.S.
The State Department granted more than 600,000 international student visas in fiscal 2023, which ended in September, the highest issuance since fiscal 2017. Among these, 289,526 visas were awarded to Chinese students.
These days, only about 700 American students are studying at Chinese universities, down from a peak of close to 25,000 a decade ago, while there are nearly 300,000 Chinese students at U.S. schools.
Is that cool? Is any of this real, or just a conspiracy theory?
Most countries have spies, and as for stealing tech, you steal from the place with more of it. I doubt Chinese are going to invade US military bases from some land bought alongside it. The US military should be able to repel such an event. As for drugs, don't forget the CIA funded its Nicaraguan "off the books" campaign by introducing crack cocaine to the US. If the CIA can do it, don't blame Chinese for copying.
Chinese are known for playing very long games. You might discover quite a few Trojan horses 🐎 at some point of time - Chinese and/or other. Not saying you should be super suspicious towards every Chinese, but reasonable measures of caution ⚠️ won’t be superfluous
Scout wrote: "So are we thinking that China doesn't have a plan to defeat us from within? That they don't have spies stealing our tech? They're not buying property adjacent to our military bases? They're not pro..."Even our politicians are getting suspicious, some would say obsessive, with everything Chinese and a lot of that obsession is fed from the US, Biden's, fears of an inevitable confrontation they have got themselves into over decades of support and guarantees for Taiwan. And it seems a lot of that has rubbed off with you.
I can only take your word for it that excessive numbers of Chinese are getting into the US, despite Trump's wall. In newsreels of those immigrants I only see Nicaraguans and other Central American nationals. And I don't think the Chinese are responsible for the drugs problem in your country. As Ian pointed out, that was happening fort y years ago and the latest problem seems to be Nandrolone which is manufactured almost everywhere.
As far as students are concerned, as with our universities and private schools, the Chinese are an essential source of income and profit to them but I think a Western education is the factor rather than a future of spooking. There are an awful lot of them (Chinese) about and it is inevitable they will feature more and more into all aspects of our lives. This excessive populace drives their governments thinking and planning more than a desire to consume the rest of the world. Our politicians would do well to have an ounce of their forward planning. So I wouldn't stay awake worrying about the Chinese overrunning your country but I might have a nightmare or two about Biden, or Trump, having to defend Taiwan when the time comes. If Gaza is a problem, wait for that one.
I think most of the anti-Chinese feelings in the US is simply because the Chinese economy has changed into it being the primary manufacturing country in the world. The US shipped much of its manufacturing there for cheap labour, but has ended up dependent on the manufacturing.A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would pose problems. The US navy thinks it can rule the waves but the Chinese would not start such an exercise unless they thought they had a means of dealing with that. The biggest problem for the Chinese is they have no experience - no veterans. In war, newbies never shine, as the Russians found out in their initial attempt at Ukraine. However, the US has never fought a peer in recent times. The outcome is somewhat unpredictable, but it would be extremely expensive, and I am far from convinced that with the current debt in the US it could maintain a long campaign against a peer,
This is about basic human nature magnified to the collective, in this case nation states.
All powerful A's power is waning, while B's (and to a lesser extent C's) power is rising. Although the power balance hasn't yet completely shifted, it's moved enough for A to feel threatened by B and C. Therefore, A has started lying and telling half truths about B and C, became it feels threatened and to shore up its own support.
However, lies and half truths can only fool people for so long. Eventually, the truth will out. And that will happen when it becomes an indisputable fact that A is no longer as powerful as B and C.
We're not there yet but we soon will be.
All powerful A's power is waning, while B's (and to a lesser extent C's) power is rising. Although the power balance hasn't yet completely shifted, it's moved enough for A to feel threatened by B and C. Therefore, A has started lying and telling half truths about B and C, became it feels threatened and to shore up its own support.
However, lies and half truths can only fool people for so long. Eventually, the truth will out. And that will happen when it becomes an indisputable fact that A is no longer as powerful as B and C.
We're not there yet but we soon will be.
All of you who replied to my post 140 do not live in the US. You have no idea what's happening here. Do some research into where the ingredients to produce fentanyl are coming from (China) and where they're going (Mexico). Do some research into how our open border allows Mexican cartels to bring the drugs into our country. "Fentanyl manufactured by the Mexican cartels is the main driver behind the ongoing epidemic of drug poisoning deaths in the United States. Further complicating the fentanyl threat is the addition of the dangerous veterinary tranquilizer xylazine to the fentanyl to create what is known as “tranq.”Fentanyl is also being hidden in other powder drugs such as cocaine and heroin and, to a lesser extent, methamphetamine. Users often take these drugs without knowing they contain fentanyl, which greatly increases the risk of poisoning. Fake prescription pills containing fentanyl present an
extreme danger. Most of these fake pills are made to look nearly identical to real prescription pills, such as oxycodone (M30, Percocet); hydrocodone (Vicodin); or alprazolam (Xanax) – the fentanyl content in these fake pills is known only after laboratory analysis. In 2023, DEA forensic laboratory analysis showed that approximately 7 in 10 fake pills contain a potentially deadly dose of fentanyl (approximately 2 milligrams). Fentanyl also poses an ongoing threat to law enforcement personnel and other first responders who may encounter it in the performance of their duties.
China-based chemical suppliers are the main source of the chemicals used in the production of illicit fentanyl. The Sinaloa and Jalisco cartels manufacture fentanyl in clandestine labs they
oversee in Mexico, in both powder form and pressed into fake pills, and traffic it into the United States through any of the many entry points they control. This info is provided by the Drug Enforcement Agency, and you can read more here: https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/fil...
Scout wrote: "All of you who replied to my post 140 do not live in the US. You have no idea what's happening here. Do some research into where the ingredients to produce fentanyl are coming from (China) and wher..."Yes, Fentanyl does seem to be the latest deadly craze and, yes, we know it originated in Chinese labs but to go from there to that it is a plot of the Chinese government to undermine the social fabric of your country is a big leap. Drugs have been a massive problem in the States for decades and, not surprisingly, have become an almost insurmountable problem of late. But there is a stark reality to the situation: drugs make money, a lot of it, as long as there is a market for it. If people don't buy them that market collapses.
There are two possible answers to the problem. The first is to try to cut out the source of the drug cartels (of whatever nationality): not so easy, in fact, probably impossible. The second is to address the reasons drug use is so dominant and getting moreso. Politicians don't want to go there because it means recognising the deep social desolation and deprivation and the sense of hopelessness among the young in your societies. Perhaps the answer might be a program of Chinese philosophy in your schools?
Before we get too excited about Chinese making Fentanyl, note it was first made in 1959, in 2017, according to Wikipedia, it sold 1.6 tonne qs a legitimate prescription drug, and it is on the WHO list of essential medicines.The second point is that Indian and Chinese companies now make most of the world's chemicals required for making pharmaceuticals, and many of the pharmaceuticals themselves. It is the Western multinationals that sent the manufacturing to China to save themselves the trouble of paying Western wages and of fulfilling the various onerous regulations.
In many cases, such illegal drugs were not completely made in China. The drug manufacture starts with 4-piperidone in a one-pot manufacturing method adding aniline, an acetylated borohydride and propionyl chloride. Those chemicals are not drugs, and yes they are predominantly made in China, but can be purchased from chemical suppliers from many countries through intermediate resellers.
Sorry, but you cannot prohibit those chemicals without prohibiting all chemical manufacturing, which would throw a very large number of businesses out of business. The only solutions are to stop people wanting to be users by ensuring they know they have a better life without them and they don't want to use drugs.
By now China probably “rents” more russian territory than russia occupied in Ukraine. I doubt these lands will ever return to russia. russia and China are no friends, I suspect the latter would sooner swallow a big chunk of russia that go against the US
A useful bit of expertise from Ian - and a bit more sense and reality about China - and India, watch that space in the next ten years. But there are aspects of Chinese foreign policy that are concerning: obviously, what is happening in what they call the South China Sea: intimidating any Phillippino vessel that sails near the shoals they have illegally occupied in international waters with water cannon but also their increasing involvement in Africa where they are filling space with aid programs in countries the West has written off. It is all a way of fostering future trading favours but in reality it is putting countries and their corrupt regimes in debt to them, even S. Africa. It is a ring of influence spreading north to south around the eastern half of the world.
Nik wrote: "By now China probably “rents” more russian territory than russia occupied in Ukraine. I doubt these lands will ever return to russia. russia and China are no friends, I suspect the latter would soo..."Can you be more specific, Nik? It is news to me.
I don’t think there is much info about it in English. Old links:https://www.ft.com/content/700a9450-1...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3...
With russia becoming very dependent on China, bearing in mind territorial disputes in the past, taking an advantage might become too tempting for China.
What the CCP wants is Vladivostok. At the very least, they want that bridge redesigned so the the can get cargo to and from the Sea of Japan.
It is debatable that giving aid and encouraging trade with countries the West has "written off" is bad, but it is true that Western influence in Africa is declining. The question then is, why? It should be of note that the corrupt regimes tended to have been encouraged by the West, simply on the grounds their corporations could have a free go. If Chinese aid were, say, to improve the dreadful conditions of cobalt miners in the Congo, would that be such a bad thing?
Chinese aid won't improve the lives of normal people in Africa. It will just enrich those with power by buying resources for the CCP. So many small nations are jumping ship for the CCP because they view Biden and the other Western leaders as weak.
For those who see the Western involvement in Africa as virtuous, red "Dictatorland" by Paul Kenyon. The killing of leaders to support dictators who would give access to Western corporations was hardly virtuous. There are 29 US military bases in Africa (according to the Pentagon) and where is the enemy to the US? After reqading that book, explain why Chinese infuence is going to be THAT BAD
The CCP has killed millions of its own people. Given the opportunity to kill foreigners, I'm guessing Pooh Bear will put Belgium to shame.
Whatever. Give China the benefit of the doubt, but why would you do that?
According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital..., China executes about 8000 per year, mainly for crimes of drug trafficking and murder. The figure may be boosted by the rather odd judgment of death with reprieve.Given China has over a billion people, and it is rather strict, that is not too bad, and most Chinese support that penalty.
Nik wrote: "I don’t think there is much info about it in English. Old links:https://www.ft.com/content/700a9450-1...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3...
With russia becom..."
Thanks for link. That is a strange one; 115k hectares (84k acres) is no more than some farms in little UK and to employ so many locals... are they going to dig it all by hand? According to an expert the land is not fit for growing anything. So what's it all about? Ideal place for launching satellites - or anti satellites. But the growing eco links between the two has made the sanctions against Russia almost useless. China can consume all, and more, gas from them than Europe did.
Ian wrote: "According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital..., China executes about 8000 per year, mainly for crimes of drug trafficking and murder. The figure may be boosted by ..."Careful, Ian. When China has a nuclear sub base in S. Africa your pusillanimous government might wish they didn't have a self-imposed nuclear deterrent.
Russia isn't set up to liquefy natural gas. Without that ability, Russia has to ship their natural gas by pipeline. That's why that pipeline to Germany was such a big deal. Building equivalent pipelines to China will take years.When your government regularly murders its citizens to sell their organs, how likely is anyone to speak out with any real volume?
