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Far From the Madding Crowd
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Far from the Madding Crowd > Far From the Madding Crowd 2nd Thread Chapters 9 - 20

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Pamela Mclaren | 273 comments I agree with your comments, too, Jean. He wavers between just discussing Bathsheba and the more general "all women" statements, so it feels confusing. And because he does, he weakens his own argument — was Bathsheba using her 'feminine wiles' or had she seen the lay of the land and was acting as the men?

I found Chapter 11 to be interesting — it clarifies where things stand with Fanny but to give over a whole chapter to her is surprising. My feeling is that she is soon going to be disappointed with her soldier.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Pamela wrote: "My feeling is that she is soon going to be disappointed with her soldier ..."

It really leaves us wanting to know more, doesn't it?


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Pamela wrote: "My feeling is that she is soon going to be disappointed with her soldier ..."

It really leaves us wanting to know more, doesn't it?"


Yes! Fanny's story line has me very curious. I keep remembering there was a bit of a spark between Gabriel and Fanny when they met the night of the fire. What will happen with that?

And now Bathsheba is curious about Boldwood, will there me a connection there?

Hardy is doing a good job of keeping my interest with these plot possibilities.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "Back to chapter 11 ... I wanted him to tell me why I was there before going into such dense description!..."

Oh that is interesting! So just as Thomas Hardy added extra emotional power to the sheep scene by making us feel we knew Gabriel Oak before his devastating loss, he should have made us care about where we were, before indulging in so much description?

Perhaps that shows he was more experienced as a poet than as a writer of prose. He had already written 3 novels, but his heart was still that of a poet, and the first pages of chapter 11 showed it, I think.


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
About Liddy.....
I agree with Jean's observations about Liddy in this chapter. She tried to express her opinion, but then ended up agreeing with everything Bathsheba said.

I get the sense that Liddy is looking up to Bathsheba, perhaps wanting to be more like her. It must be very odd for Liddy to see a woman take charge of the whole farm. That creates room for Liddy to also have more power on the farm, as she seems to be Bathsheba's right-hand-person.

I don't think Bathsheba is aware of Liddy's admiration. Is she possibly using Liddy who knows more about the farm, the neighbors and the manor than Bathsheba does? I don't get the sense that Bathsheba looks at Liddy as a "friend", more like a useful ally.

Liddy is shaping up to be a really interesting character.


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Would we have been as aware of this dictatorial style of writing if Thomas Hardy had been espousing views we agree with? Certainly this is not "persuasive literature" as we understand the term, but was Thomas Hardy merely preaching to the converted?

Do you agree with these thoughts on Thomas Hardy's style? Disagree? Or find the question irrelevant?..."


These are all very relevant questions! Not sure I have any answers right now, but I'm keeping my eye on this as I read.

Occasionally, as Jean quoted, the narrator seems so judgmental towards women in a way that I don't recall from Tess of the D’Urbervilles. But maybe Hardy is doing that on purpose. One of the themes of this novel seems to be flipping the traditional gender roles around, so maybe the narrator's judgement is serving a purpose in that it lays out the prejudices against women prevalent in 1874.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Oh I do like that idea Bridget! I wonder if you're on the right track. The misogyny seems to be so over-the-top compared with his other works.

(By the way, I used "dictatorial" deliberately. At first I thought "didactic" but somehow it seems even stronger than that!)


Kathleen | 111 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "So just as Thomas Hardy added extra emotional power to the sheep scene by making us feel we knew Gabriel Oak before his devastating loss, he should have made us care about where we were, before indulging in so much description?"

Yes! Thank you, Jean. That would have worked better for me. But I trust Hardy knows what he's doing, and I was probably just having a bad day. :-)

And I love Bridget's idea that Hardy is slipping in these judgments on purpose!


Chris | 46 comments Bridget, I agree with you about Liddy. OTOH I did not sense any spark between Fanny & Gabriel. I felt he was just being kind to a woman in need & in obvious distress.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Chapter 13: Sortes Sanctorum—The Valentine

On February 13th, Bathsheba and Liddy were sitting by the piano, when Liddy asked if her mistress had ever tried to find out who she would marry by using the Bible and key. Bathsheba said it was foolish, but finally agreed to play along. As she said the verse and turned the book around, she blushed guiltily.



(This illustration by Helen Paterson was also in the first book edition.)

When asked, Bathsheba refused to tell Liddy whom she imagined as a suitor. Liddy’s thoughts turned to Mr. Boldwood, and she remarked that says his pew was just opposite Bathsheba’s at church—but that he never once turned to look at her, unlike everyone else.

After a significant pause, Bathsheba said she had forgotten about a valentine she had bought for little Teddy Coggan. She wrote a valentine verse and put it in the envelope. Laughing, Liddy said it would be such fun to send it to old Boldwood. Bathsheba thought for a while. Although it was silly, she was nevertheless a little disconcerted that the most dignified man in the parish would not meet her eyes, and that even a person like Liddy thought she could remark on it. Bathsheba said that she didn’t want to send the valentine to Teddy, who after all could be so naughty.

As a final chance act, they tossed the hymn book, and Bathsheba said that if it landed shut, which was less likely, she would send it to farmer Boldwood. She selected a seal with a motto, which she knew to be amusing although she could not remember what it said. As she pressed it onto the wax, they read, “Marry me”. The letter was duly sent off.

The narrator comments:

"So very idly and unreflectingly was this deed done. Of love as a spectacle Bathsheba had a fair knowledge; but of love subjectively she knew nothing."


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Well this certainly sets our minds racing!

The number of chance elements here is extraordinary. Bathsheba seems to have been destined to have been preoccupied by thoughts of farmer Boldwood, simply because of her own vanity. Her pride piqued her when she thought that those below her in the social order might be gossiping about it.

From then on, fate quite openly has the upper hand, as they play a superstitious game. Indulging in this sort of game does show Bathsheba’s immaturity too, however much she pretends it is to indulge Liddy. As Bridget remarked, most of the time she seem to be using Liddy for her own purposes (although perhaps even Bathsheba herself is not always aware that this is what she is doing).


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
So we have double elements. Here as elsewhere in the novel, Hardy mixes Biblical allusions with folk traditions like valentines or superstitions held by the farm hands. The Bible and Key is a kind of “spin the bottle” game (details in the next post) that involves imagining potential couples and waiting to see which one is revealed as ”true”. It is implied that Liddy’s thoughts turn to the very person who had been Bathsheba’s choice in the game.

Bathsheba recognises her own sense of vanity in being at all bothered about Boldwood’s apparent apathy towards her, although Liddy is also fanning the flames of this sentiment with her mischievous ideas ana schemes. The novel emphasises here just how idle and thoughtless Bathsheba’s sending of the valentine is. Will her lack of concern have consequences? What might they be?


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
And a little more …

“Sortes Sanctorum” - Latin for the oracles of the holy writing.

Foretelling the future - divination by Bible and key:

The key was inserted in the Bible at Ruth 1: 16-17, and the Bible was tied shut with the handle of the key protruding so that the book could be supported by resting the rounded ends of the key handle on one fingertip of Bathsheba and one of Liddy. Bathsheba would then think of possible marriage partners, and if the Bible turned, the man she was thinking of at the time would be her future husband.

“kneeling eastward” - Daniel 6: 10-16. Daniel, a captive in Babylon, defied the king’s prohibition of praying while facing Jerusalem. Thomas Hardy mistakenly has David face east, whereas Jerusalem would be west of Babylon.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Your thoughts today?


Pamela Mclaren | 273 comments I again in align with what you have said, Jean. I was surprised that this whole chapter shows Bathsheba as still rather immature and allows Liddy to have her play a silly game, and then to act by not only sending a valentine to the man who ignored her — which may only mean that he is very pious — but using a stamp that says "Marry Me."

If he guesses that it is her, what will be his thoughts? Will he annoyed by her silliness or be intrigued?


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Pamela wrote: "If he guesses that it is her, what will be his thoughts? Will he annoyed by her silliness or be intrigued?..."

It's anyone's guess isn't it Pam? We only have reported accounts of his personality, so as you say farmer Boldwood could just be pious. These are the actions of a very silly, frivolous girl, summed up well by Thomas Hardy in his final sentence (in the summary).


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Chris | 46 comments My admiration for Bathsheba had been increasing after her manner in dealing with her workers, this chapter did bring me back to how young she was. I agree her vanity got the better of her, in showing interest in the very person who was ignoring her. And then sending a Valentine with Marry Me on the seal. Crazy?! She wasn't thinking about any consequences that might ensue from her actions.

I hadn't every heard of using the Bible to "divine" one's future husband. Thanks for that tidbit of information. I guess no more silly than using a Ouija Board.


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Chris wrote: "Bridget, I agree with you about Liddy. OTOH I did not sense any spark between Fanny & Gabriel. I felt he was just being kind to a woman in need & in obvious distress."

I think you're right Chris. I went back and re-read the part where Gabriel and Fanny meet, and there's no spark. I must have been reading too fast. Thanks for setting me straight :-)


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Thanks for including the illustration, Jean. Between that and your explanation about the "bible and key" game I can now truly visualize what Liddy and Bathsheba were doing.

I agree with everyone, this is a silly thing Bathsheba is doing because of her own pride and vanity. I'm guessing something bad will come from this.


Connie  G (connie_g) | 704 comments I'm wondering if Bathsheba grew up in a protected environment and had not been courted by a man (except for the proposal from Gabriel which surprised her). Had she just been dealing with older friends of her parents and servants? How could she not sense that sealing the Valentine with "Marry Me" would get a strong reaction from a man?

Liddy is acting like a typical young teenage girl, but Bathsheba is an employer and has to keep the respect of farm workers. Bathsheba is also young, but needs to remember her station in life.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Connie wrote: "Liddy is acting like a typical young teenage girl, but Bathsheba is an employer and has to keep the respect of farm workers. Bathsheba is also young, but needs to remember her station in life ..."

I think Bathsheba would benefit from your counsel Connie!


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Chapter 14: Effect Of The Letter - Sunrise

It was the evening of Valentine’s Day and Boldwood was looking at the clock on the mantelpiece where he had put the valentine. He had placed it inside the ornamental border of the clock, held in place by eagles’ wings, and the words of the seal preyed on his mind even though he could not read them from where he sat.

“The letter must have had an origin and a motive.”

It never even occurred to him that the valentine might have been sent on an impulse:

“The vast difference between starting a train of events, and directing into a particular groove a series already started, is rarely apparent to the person confounded by the issue.”

Still disturbed, he went to bed having placed the valentine in the corner of his bedroom mirror. As he tried to sleep, the moon cast strange shadows into his room.

Suddenly, Boldwood thought there might be something else in the envelope. He jumped up, but found nothing, and read again, “Marry me”. He caught sight of his reflection in the mirror—wan with vacant, wide eyes—and chastised himself for his excitability. Towards dawn he got up and went outside to watch the sunrise, and listlessly noticed the hardened frost and icicles, and the footprints of birds over the snow.

He heard a noise and looked at the road: it was the postman, who handed him a letter. Eagerly he opened it, expecting it to be from the same sender as before, although in fact it was addressed to the new shepherd at Weatherbury Farm. Then the postman told him it was not for him—it was for his shepherd. Looking at the address, Boldwood realised it was a mistake, and that it was for Miss Everdene’s shepherd, not his. He happened to see Gabriel with his dog on the ridge, and said he would take the letter to Gabriel himself, partly because he had opened it in error and partly as he thought it was an opportunity.

He followed Gabriel as he descended towards Warren’s Malthouse.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Well we haven’t had to wait long before finding out what effect the letter would have … although Hardy is cleverly increasing the tension by spinning this out. We still do not know what Boldwood will do when he discovers the author of the valentine!

Boldwood’s disturbed state contrasts with Bathsheba’s giddy thoughtlessness in sending the letter. Meanwhile, the description of the moon suggests a correspondence between Boldwood’s feeling of uncertainty and natural forces beyond human control. There was some beautiful descriptive writing here. I really liked this sensitive passage:

“that before-mentioned preternatural inversion of light and shade which attends the prospect when the garish brightness commonly in the sky is found on the earth, and the shades of earth are in the sky. Over the west hung the wasting moon, now dull and greenish-yellow, like tarnished brass.”

How about you? Would you like to share your favourite parts?


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Did you notice the mirror motif? While Bathsheba has often been described at looking in the mirror contentedly, admiring her own reflection, now Boldwood stares at himself in the mirror. He though has a different response; one of suspicion and discomfort.

Boldwood is used to the more predictable side of nature, which now contrasts with the inner conflict he is experiencing. He wonders how to react to the secret valentine, and how to find out who sent it. The letter to Gabriel is his chance to invite someone else into the mystery, and hopefully resolve it.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
And a little more …

On Columbus’s voyage in 1492, the sight of fresh seaweed was taken as a sign that land was near.

“ewe-lease” - a tract of land set aside for grazing sheep.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Thomas Hardy has give us a perfect cliffhanger here!

We now have a day free. Installment 4 begins with chapter 15 on Wednesday


Connie  G (connie_g) | 704 comments That was a beautiful passage that you highlighted, Jean. I also liked the preceding paragraph:

"It was one of the usual slow sunrises of this time of the year, and the sky, pure violet in the zenith, was leaden to the northward, and murky to the east, where, over the snowy down or ewe-lease on Weatherbury Upper Farm, and apparently resting upon the ridge, the only half of the sun yet visible burnt rayless, like a red and flameless fire shining over a white hearthstone. The whole effect resembled a sunset as childhood resembles age.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Wonderful ... right to the final analogy. Thanks Connie!


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Connie and Jean, you've both pulled out my favorite parts of writing from this chapter.

I felt for Boldwood in this chapter. He seems tormented by the letter, though that may be too strong a word, maybe perplexed is better. At any rate, he's not happy. And it reminded me of Bathsheba running after Gabriel to tell him she doesn't have any suitors, only to THEN tell him she's not interested in marrying him. Bathsheba's actions so far have negative consequences for the men in this book.

Today, we might call her a "tease", someone who flirts with no intention of deeper feelings. Their only motive vanity and pride. Though it can also give a young girl a feeling of power and control. Those might be Bathsheba's motives too.


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Chapter 13: Sortes Sanctorum—The Valentine

On February 13th, Bathsheba and Liddy were sitting by the piano, when Liddy asked if her mistress had ever tried to find out who she would marry by using..."


This chapter amplifies the romantic nature of Far From the Madding Crowd, and the frequent mentions of "fate" and "chance" warns us that life can be cruel. There is no mention of God's good intent and providence towards humanity!

We have had hints of possible romance before, seeing how Gabriel reacted to Bathsheba, and how poor Fanny came begging to the officer to marry her. And now a Valentine!

Hardy shows us that Bathsheba had no romantic intentions when she purchased the Valentine, intending it for a little farm boy, Teddy Coggan. But how ridiculous to give a poor, uneducated little boy a Valentine - I would think he would be teased to death by his friends. And he would have much rather had a small coin (I also looked for an indication of her having "promised him something", and could find it nowhere.) So is this an instance of Bathsheba's telling a white lie to disguise her motives?

I am thinking the narrator is unreliable as to telling us Bathsheba's real thoughts and feelings. She is a deceptive young woman, not even being honest with Liddy, and goes about deliberately teasing Mr. Boldwood in the cruelest fashion. She didn't ever care that the bright red seal on her letter read: MARRY ME.

Bathsheba strikes me as being very sharp, yet vain and totally oblivious to the feelings of others.


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments I was fascinated by the folklore of the Bible and key! Apparently it was a real thing, dating back to centuries old witchcraft and fortunetelling practices. Apparently it could be used for any verse of the Bible that the person thought would related to their question or problem.

Did anyone notice the verses that Thomas Hardy mentioned specifically that the young women looked for? "The special verse in the Book of Ruth was sought out by Bathsheba, and the sublime words met her eye."

If interested, here are the verses, taken from the King James Version of the Bible, the version Hardy would mostly likely used (when he was not using the Greek translation)!

"16 But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.” Ruth 1:16-17 (KJV).

You may have recognized that these verses are often used in modern day marriage ceremonies.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "is this an instance of Bathsheba's telling a white lie to disguise her motives?"

That's an interesting thought Lee. No we have not been privy to any "promising" to Teddy Coggan, so either this happened "off stage", or was an invention.

I took it at face value, but yes, it seems oddly inappropriate, and if anything indicates that Bathsheba has little experience of young children.

She seems totally self-involved to me at this stage.

Thanks for the further details of the Biblical passage I referred to.


Erich C | 131 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Did you notice the mirror motif? While Bathsheba has often been described at looking in the mirror contentedly, admiring her own reflection, now Boldwood stares at himself in the mirror. He though ..."

In addition to the actual mirror, Hardy describes a mirroring in the landscape, so that the moon's light reflects off the ground and upward from the snow. The sunrise also "resembled a sunset," and the fields and the sky look identical so it is difficult to see the horizon.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Great observation, thanks Erich!


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Connie wrote: "That was a beautiful passage that you highlighted, Jean. I also liked the preceding paragraph:

"It was one of the usual slow sunrises of this time of the year, and the sky, pure violet in the zeni..."


I found the paragraph noted by Connie, Bridget and Jean to be ponderous and cumbersome. It felt heavily worked upon, and I can imagine Hardy sitting there and deliberately trying to be metaphoric.

And the next paragraph is even heavier and more difficult grammatically. (I have used spoiler here to abbreviate the long, long sentence.)

"In other directions the fields and sky were so much of one colour by the snow that it was difficult in a hasty glance to tell whereabouts the horizon occurred; and in general there was here, too, that before mentioned preternatural inversion of light and shade . . .
(view spoiler)

What??


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
I'm sorry you found it clumsy Lee - I immediately recognised the phenomena he meant once I had slowed my reading down. At a specific time of day, in certain weather conditions in Dorset (and probably other places) you cannot distinguish the horizon and it is hard to tell what is land and what is cloud. The optical effect can be that it is transposed: what seems land is cloud and what seems cloud is land.

I like his use of language. Yes he would work on it; he was a poet. But perhaps you prefer the syntax of his later novels, where the narrative is more fluent.


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments I apologize that all my comments run together; I think I am the last in this group to review the previous day's messages and comments and I find I have too much to say!

Concerning my finding some of Thomas Hardy, writings too ponderous, I want to compare how Charles Dickens handled the same sort of imagery BUT with eloquence, simplicity and equal profundity. The quote below is from Bleak House Chapter 8, "Covering a Multitude of Sins".

"It was interesting, when I dressed before daylight, to peep out of window, where my candles were reflected in the black panes like two beacons, and finding all beyond still enshrouded in the indistinctness of last night, to watch how it turned out when the day came on.. . . and disclosed the scene over which the wind had wandered in the dark, like my memory over my life, I had a pleasure in discovering the unknown objects that had been around me in my sleep. (view spoiler)


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments So my question is, how would one critically describe the difference between the narrative style of Hardy and Dickens?

(My preference is clearly Dickens).


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "I'm sorry you found it clumsy Lee - I immediately recognised the phenomena he meant once I had slowed my reading down. At a specific time of day, in certain weather conditions in Dorset (and probab..."
Don't be sorry! I am just trying to analyze why I find Dickens so much more satisfying.

That you are in Dorset yourself and have observed that exact phenomena is relevant and exciting! I am sitting in a suburb and the horizon is at all times mostly hidden.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Do you think they write in a similar way, Lee? I don't think Charles Dickens's poetry is much to write home about! (In another group we are both in, we are reading some right now). But yes the experienced narrative writer of Bleak House would find it easier to write passages which flowed than the anonoymous writer of Far From the Madding Crowd.

Charles Dickens was then 41 and an established writer. Thomas Hardy was 34 and relatively unpractised; still hoping to be a poet, but this was the novel that made his name.

I love the imagery, but can see that the syntax is sometimes clunky.


Erich C | 131 comments Lee wrote: "So my question is, how would one critically describe the difference between the narrative style of Hardy and Dickens?

(My preference is clearly Dickens)."


Interesting question, Lee! I also find some parts of Hardy's writing slightly clumsy. In the passage you include, he uses "before mentioned," and those kinds of expressions stand out for me because they seem unnecessarily text-focused.

However, those moments don't come as often as passages of great lyrical beauty.

Virginia Woolf called Hardy both the best and worst living English novelist!


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Erich C wrote: "Lee wrote: "So my question is, how would one critically describe the difference between the narrative style of Hardy and Dickens?

(My preference is clearly Dickens)."

Interesting question, Lee! I..."


Erich writes: Virginia Woolf called Hardy both the best and worst living English novelist!

Thank you for that quote, Erich! I suppose she and I were on the same page here!


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
It's interesting to compare Hardy to Dickens, Lee. That thought had not occurred to me, though I can see why you would go there, because we've read so much Dickens lately with Jean's other excellent group :-)!

Instead, I've been comparing Hardy to himself, specifically Tess of the D’Urbervilles. That novel, was written 17 years after FFTMC, in 1891, and I believe Hardy's prose writing greatly improves. There are so many examples, but here's a simple one I like. I think you can see the writing is less clumsly.

"Or perhaps the summer fog was more general, and the meadows lay like a white sea, out of which the scattered trees rose like dangerous rocks. Birds would soar through it into the upper radicance, and hang on the wing sunning themselves, or alight on the wet rails subdividing the mead, which now shone like glass rods. Minute diamonds of moisture from the mist hung, too, upon Tess's eyelashes, and drops upon her hair, like seed pearls."

The paragraph goes on, but you get the idea. There are so many more passages like this in "Tess" than there are in FFTMC, at least so far :-)


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments You have proved your point. The quote you chose is exquisite! It is much finer than whatI I just read in FFMC. It is safer to compare within one author’s own novels, than to compare to other authors.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Installment 4: Chapter 15 - 20



The first full page of the fourth instalment of the story - April 1874 - Helen Paterson

Chapter 15: A Morning Meeting—The Letter Again

Inside the malthouse, the maltster was eating breakfast, undeterred by his lack of teeth. Henery Fray advanced to the fire, while Matthew Moon, Joseph Poorgrass, and the other farmhands arrived from the cart-horse stables. The maltster had a pot of what passed for coffee (but had been made from toast crumbs) for anyone to drink. The maltster asked how Miss Everdene was getting along without a bailiff, and Henery gloomily said that she would regret it. There was no way she could manage herself, he stated, and everyone nodded in agreement.

Henery said that Benjy Pennyways was dishonest to be sure, but that the mistress wouldn’t listen to advice: pride and vanity would prove her downfall. He wailed that he had deserved the place of bailiff. Henery wondered what Bathsheba wanted with a new piano—it seemed as if her uncle’s things weren’t good enough for her. They all chimed in with the new things she had bought: looking glasses, “wicked” books, and framed pictures. Meanwhile Gabriel appeared in the doorway, looking healthy and vigorous and carrying four lambs over his shoulder. He asked if it would be alright to warm them by the fire, as he and Cainy had had a hard time with this year’s lambing, especially with no lambing-hut in the harsh weather.

The maltster made him welcome, and he and Gabriel talked about Norcombe, which had greatly changed since the maltster knew it. Then the maltster said they had been talking about the mistress, and Gabriel asked sharply what they had been saying about her. Mark Clark said that some men had been criticising her pride and vanity, but for him her pretty face absolved her of a great deal. Gabriel sternly said he would not allow such talk about Miss Everdene. Turning to Poorgrass, he asked if he too had spoken against her, and he and Matthew Moon began to protest uneasily. Gabriel thumped the table with his fist, and said that anyone who spoke against her would have him to answer to. Clark shouted, “Hear hear!” interrupting the awkwardness.

Matthew Moon added that Gabriel was known to be clever; for instance, he was able to tell the time by the stars and make sun-dials. Poorgrass, in contrast, used to paint Farmer James Everdene’s name on his wagons and write his J and S the wrong way around. That had always been difficult for him, Poorgrass agreed. They all agreed that Gabriel Oak was so clever that they thought he would be made bailiff. Gabriel is a little mollified by all this, and said he had thought so too:

“I don’t mind owning that I expected it,” said Oak, frankly. “Indeed, I hoped for the place. At the same time, Miss Everdene has a right to be her own baily if she choose—and to keep me down to be a common shepherd only.” Oak drew a slow breath, looked sadly into the bright ashpit, and seemed lost in thoughts not of the most hopeful hue.”

The nearly lifeless lambs, now revived by the fire, began to bleat again, and Gabriel gave them milk from a small teapot he carried. Henery said that what used to happen was that if a lamb died before marking, the skin would belong to the shepherd. (If afterwards, then it would be the farmer’s.) Gabriel said he had no right at all to the skins—Poorgrass said he had a bad deal, but Gabriel protested.

Boldwood entered the malthouse, and gave Gabriel the letter, apologising for opening it by accident. Gabriel read it, and learned it was from Fanny, who had enclosed the money she owed him, and said she was happy to say she would soon be married to her young man, Sergeant Troy, who was now quartered in Casterbridge. She asked Gabriel to keep the letter secret, before they could come to Weatherbury as husband and wife, and thanked him again for his kindness.

Gabriel showed the letter to Boldwood, who was dismayed. Boldwood said Troy was clever, the natural son of a French governess by a Lord, who married her off to a poor medical man, to make the child legitimate. When the money ran out and those who cared about him died, he got a steady job in an office, but “indulged in the wild freak of enlisting”. Boldwood thought Fanny was a silly girl if she thought Troy would marry her:

“he’s a clever fellow, and up to everything. A slight romance attaches to him, too. His mother was a French governess, and it seems that a secret attachment existed between her and the late Lord Severn. She was married to a poor medical man, and soon after an infant was born; and while money was forthcoming all went on well.”

Cain Ball burst in to say two more ewes had had twins and needed Gabriel. He jumped up, branded the infant sheep with “B.E.”, then left with Cain. Boldwood left with him, and as they approached the field he drew out Bathsheba’s letter, and asked if Gabriel knew the handwriting. Blushing as he said her name, Gabriel identified it, and realised with discomfiture that the letter must be anonymous. Mistaking his confusion, Boldwood protested that the “fun” lay in trying to identify the sender of a valentine, though the way he said “fun” sounded more like “torture”.

Returning home, Boldwood contemplated this new information:

“feeling twinges of shame and regret at having so far exposed his mood by those fevered questions to a stranger”.


message 96: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2024 04:48AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
“the dog George, whom Gabriel had contrived to fetch from Norcombe, stalked solemnly behind.”

Yes! Let’s start with a canine character … I’m sure we are all pleased to see George again. We had a hint that he was on the ridge when Boldwood was watching Gabriel Oak, and now we can see that he is indeed back on the scene! Gabriel must value his relationship with his dog.

So here we have another rustic scene, humorously depicting country life around the setting of the malt-house, led by the owner himself. The ancient maltster is an unchanging part of the landscape, in the same way as a building or field.

As we noticed at the end of the previous thread, the farm hands mix vague knowledge about Biblical stories with pagan or other superstitious beliefs, including bad omens and unlucky signs.


message 97: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2024 05:08AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Varying views of Bathsheba Everdene

It’s noticeable that Henery Fray is one of the loudest proponents of traditional gender norms, which treat women’s authority with scepticism. Do you think this might be partly resentment at not getting a job he expected to? Given the stubbornness about his name, it seems as if this is a man who is set in his ways. Henery continues to work up the general mood, playing on the men’s stereotypes about women’s inability to do “men’s” work, and seems especially sensitive about Bathsheba’s pride and authority.

The group add to their negative view of Bathsheba Everdene by suggesting that she is materialistic and superficial. There is a class element to such criticism: the farm hands see items such as looking glasses and framed pictures as extravagances, having more to do with city or town than rural simplicity. Even when Mark Clark defends Bathsheba, he does so by acknowledging what to many of these men is her most positive trait—her beauty.

It’s perhaps a good job for Bathsheba that Gabriel entered when he did, before the feelings ran too high! Earlier, Gabriel benefited from the chorus-like opinion of the malt-house circle, and the deep local knowledge that is pooled and distributed there. Now though his feelings for Bathsheba spur him into being her champion. He also seems to have more a progressive outlook on a woman’s ability to manage a farm. In rebuking such gossip Gabriel seems quite heated, doesn’t he, slamming his fist on the table. This also emphasises how big and strong he is, as the farm hands are easily chastened.

The men admire his skills, and that he respects the laws of nature and works within them. I enjoyed the anecdote about the reverse letters: another funny reminder of the rural world of the novel. But the parts about the lambs not only reminded me of Gabriel’s earlier nursing of the lambs in his own small cot, and the one he took as a gift to offer Bathsheba, but it also brought home the way Gabriel’s social and economic status has shifted from the beginning of the novel. Now he has so little to call his own, and is even denied the skins of the lambs who die. Still, this does not make him resentful; merely rueful. (I included the quotation here.)

And what of Boldwood, a “lonely and reserved man” What might his attitude be? We had a clue at the end of this chapter, (quotation, again) but he does not seem to know what it is himself, yet.


message 98: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Apr 04, 2024 04:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
Fanny Robin and Sergeant Troy

We now know for certain what we earlier only assumed, that Fanny Robin was the poor woman who Gabriel had met on his way to the farm. Now he too links the figure of the desperate woman he encountered with the story of the runaway servant, which has been the talk of the village. Gabriel is more discreet than the others, but Boldwood has a reason to learn news of Fanny, so he shares what he knows with him. They both realise that for a precarious woman, this letter does not bode well. And we learn more about the background of Sergeant Troy, the soldier whom Fanny has set her heart on.

I included the quotation for the “blink and you’d miss it” history of Troy’s origins, which Thomas Hardy had to express very carefully so as not to shock his coy readers. The normal speech of the time would have been that Troy was the bastard son of a nobleman, and that his mother was married off (money being given to the new “father”) to provide respectability for both her and the child.

Do you think anything will come of this? Will Thomas Hardy tell us something is destined to happen?


message 99: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2024 05:11AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
And a little more … mostly Dialect:

“pipkin” - a small earthenware pot

“snapper” - a sudden change to the weather (dialect)

“kerseymere greatcoat” - a heavy woollen overcoat

Henery’s grumbling about Miss Everdene:

“Never in all my creeping up—never!” - growing up; life
“I sorrows like a man in travel!” travail; giving birth. An allusion to John 16:21.

“entr’acte” - an interval between the acts of a play (French)

Gabriel Oak - “Cainy and I haven’t tined our eyes to-night.” - shut our eyes

“Lady Day” - March 25th: the Feast of the Annunciation; a day when quarterly rents were due and farm labourer’s annual contracts were made and renewed. We read about this in Tess of the D’Urbervilles.

Joseph says: “Sexajessamine Sunday” - Sexagesima Sunday: the 2nd Sunday before Lent

“Tompkins’s old apple-tree is rooted” - “rooted” is, oddly, dialect for “uprooted”! This could relate to the pronunciation of the word, much as a glottal stop does in Yorkshire.

“smack-and-coddle” - kiss and cuddle (dialect)

“as Thor might have done with his hammer” - In Norse mythology, the fall of the god Thor’s hammer produced thunder.


message 100: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2024 05:33AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1977 comments Mod
And yet more … Edits:

This chapter has quite a lot of edits. I'll just give a couple of examples. For instance Leslie Stephen insisted that Thomas Hardy miss out these words which Boldwood said about Fanny: “She has lost her character” , because it would shock the readership of the Cornhill magazine.

Also I have looked in 4 editions, (there were 12 different editions with edits by Thomas Hardy overall) and this exchange is not in any of my 4 editions:

““Our mis’ess will bring us all to the bad,” said Henery. “Ye may depend on that—with her new farming ways. And her ignorance is terrible to hear. Why only yesterday she cut a rasher of bacon the longways of the flitch!”
“Ho-ho-ho!” said the assembly, the maltster’s feeble note being heard amid the rest as that of a different instrument: “heu-heu-heu!”


I assume therefore that it was one of the early instances where Leslie Stephen asked him to curb the overly comical speech of the rural people. Erich observed earlier that (thankfully!) their modes of speech have been toned down since Under the Greenwood Tree.

Leslie Stephen also asked Thomas Hardy to split this chapter, but it still seems long compared with the ones which follow!


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