Works of Thomas Hardy discussion
This topic is about
Far From the Madding Crowd
Far from the Madding Crowd
>
Far From the Madding Crowd 2nd Thread Chapters 9 - 20
message 101:
by
Bionic Jean, Moderator
(last edited Apr 03, 2024 05:15AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Apr 03, 2024 04:27AM
Mod
reply
|
flag
I like to pick a sentence in each chapter that stands out to me. This one easily won the prize today: "Indeed, he seemed to approach the grave as a hyperbolic curve approaches a straight line—less directly as he got nearer, till it was doubtful if he would ever reach it at all."
Mod
Thanks Keith.
Mod
Mod
Mod
I liked the image of Gabriel carrying four lambs (with sixteen feet) out of the malthouse. Again showing how strong he is.
Even at this early stage of his success in novel-writing, Hardy has realised that the juxtaposition of the humour in the Malt House regulars’ exchanges, with the more serious development in Fanny’s disappearance and Bathsheba’s message to Boldwood, is an effective chorus/confidant device for both informing the reader whilst giving heavy hints towards future intrigue.
Wow, Jean. Another terrific synopsis of a chapter and great explanations of some of the terms. But I'm kind of surprised that there seem to be quite a few chapters that are quaint but really doesn't seem to move the story forward — or is it just me?
Mod
I'll readily admit that this one was a tussle! But I'm glad it's useful as there might be slight differences in chapter breaks etc. And some are listening on audio, where it's easy to miss them!
I too have a great image in my mind of Gabriel with the lambs on his shoulders. As I remember none of the films have tried to show this ... perhaps no modern actor could do it! 😂
Mod
Yes, isn't it great? Thanks for this pertinent observation David. Thomas Hardy may have doubted his novel-writing skills at this stage (as you say, it's early) and we can see from his correspondence with Leslie Stephen that Thomas Hardy said he was content to "just be a good hand at a serial".
But already we can see that he was so much more than that! 😊
Mod
It's not just you - I think this is a great observation Pam! For Thomas Hardy the traditional rural setting represented a kind of idyllic permanence, and we watch the characters move around as their fortunes change. But the rustic characters are almost part of the scenery. Largely you can tell who they are by their names: e.g. Joseph Poorgrass, Matthew Moon etc., have a combination of Biblical and natural names, and that places them as part of that fixed idealised world.
I mentioned that the maltster embodies this. He is the perhaps the best example, as he doesn't even seem to be mentioned by name, but just by his purpose.
We see the seasons of the year gradually changing, and the rural characters adapt to that, but are also at one with it - they are all part of it - if you see what I mean! And that's why the action does not seem to move on in these chapters, although some information is filled out for us.
Thank for mentioning this Pam - (and thank you for the nice words!)
Mod
A group of parishioners (mostly women and girls) was just about to leave All Saints’ church after a service when a young cavalry soldier entered the church. The officiating curate whispered with the soldier, and then motioned the clerk and his wife to join them. Believing that there was going to be a wedding, most of the women sat back down expectantly.
The clock tower struck half-past 11. The women began to whisper among themselves, wondering where the bride was, while the soldier waited stoically.
“The silence grew to be a noticeable thing as the minutes went on, and nobody else appeared, and not a soul moved.”
At a quarter to 12, the clock struck again, and the women nervously giggled. When it struck 12, the women were impressed and no one made a sound:
“when the rattle began again, the puppet emerged, and the four quarters were struck fitfully as before. One could almost be positive that there was a malicious leer upon the hideous creature’s face, and a mischievous delight in its twitchings. Then followed the dull and remote resonance of the twelve heavy strokes in the tower above.”
Finally, the young soldier gave up waiting and left the church, “braving them all, with a compressed lip.” But when he reached the square, he ran into a woman who looked first anxious, and then afraid upon seeing the expression on his face. She cried out to “Frank” that she made a mistake and had been waiting for him at the wrong church—All Souls’ instead of All Saints’. But she said she was not too worried because it could just as easily be tomorrow, couldn’t it? He replied:
“You fool, for so fooling me! But say no more.”
Frank laughed hoarsely when asked again, and said that that he did not want to go through that experience again any time soon. The woman persisted, saying in a trembling voice that her mistake was not so awful:
“Now, dear Frank, when shall it be?”
“Ah, when? God knows!” he said, with a light irony, and turning from her walked rapidly away.”
Mod
The solemn church setting is undercut by the fact that the women are laughing and gossiping among themselves. We could also read their reaction as a stereotypical portrayal by Thomas Hardy of how women behave. The soldier, meanwhile, stands out as mysterious and even glamorous against the rural church setting, which adds to the intrigue in this passage.
Mod
We have not seen much of Fanny Robin so far, but each time we seem to see her through a man’s eyes. There have been 3 episodes so far, and quite a bit of gossip.
The encounter with Gabriel Oak interestingly, was not in the original Cornhill serial! It was added by Thomas Hardy at a later stage. The scene where she pleads with Sergeant Troy outside the barracks, while his friends are amused in the background, is also placed in different positions in the text. Usually now we read it between Bathsheba’s successful first appearance as the new mistress of her uncle’s farm, and her even greater triumph: her first appearance at the Corn market.
The contrast between the two women’s independence and opportunities is clear, and Fanny seems to us a pitiable figure.
Mod
Here is the wiki page for All Saints Church, Dorchester (“Casterbridge”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Sai.... You can see the tower.
Here is the wiki page for striking clocks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikin....
Mod
Lee wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "And interesting, as Leslie Stephen actually corrected Thomas Hardy's Maths! The original draft said "parabolic curve", and in the margin in pencil..."I looked up the name of Leslie Stephen and learned that he was the father of Virginia Woolf!
Mod
It was interesting to me that, when the farmhands critique Bathsheba's materialism, their understanding is limited to the practical uses of each object. One mentions "Pictures, for the most part wonderful frames."
Mod
Mod
On Saturday in the market, Boldwood really looked at Bathsheba for the first time. He had long considered women as remote phenomena more than real beings. Now he noticed her face and profile, her figure and skirt. He thought she was beautiful, but still unsure. So Boldwood asked his neighbour if she was considered handsome—and he said yes, heartily. How could she have written “Marry me”? Boldwood asked himself, just as blind in his way as Bathsheba was in failing to imagine how great issues could stem from small beginnings.
Watching Bathsheba negotiate with a dashing young farmer, Boldwood suddenly became hotly jealous. Bathsheba realised that Boldwood was finally staring at her, and felt triumphant. However she also felt sorry that she had brought this out by artifice, as he was: “a man she respected too highly to deliberately tease.”
Bathsheba had very nearly decided to ask for his forgiveness when they next met.
Mod
Before the valentine, Boldwood had been the only man who had paid little attention to Bathsheba, but now the idea of paying close attention to a woman is so new to him that he has to rely on others in order to make his judgments about her beauty.
Mod
“When women are in a freakish mood, their usual intuition, either from carelessness or inherent defect, seemingly fails to teach them this …”
It hardly seems to matter what “this” refers to with such a sweeping misogynist attitude, but for the sake of completion, this comment is made when Bathsheba fails to imagine how great issues could stem from small beginnings, and is astonished. Thomas Hardy (as narrator) uses Bathsheba to illustrate how in their view all women fail to understand how an action could have ramifications. Or does “seemingly” here imply that the narrator is extrapolating a general rule from a particular instance?
It would be good to find instances in this novel of how he believes men behave, but I fear that is Thomas Hardy’s default, in common with Victorian values. Therefore such a comment might be related to a type, e.g. farmhand, or a man of wealth etc., and not (as in his comments about women) as if they are a different species.
But these are my personal interpretations, so feel free to argue!
Now that the letter has begun to work its magic, Bathsheba has mixed feelings. She has not lost her pride, but we do see her beginning to recognise (just as she did when running after Gabriel) that she may have erred.
Mod
The initials “R.A” after someone’s name indicates that they are a member of the British Royal Academy of Art, who at this time were the arbiters of “beauty” in Fine Art.
“the injured lover’s hell” - from Paradise Lost by John Milton.
Book 5: lines 449-50:
“Love unlibidinous reigned, not jealousy
Was understood, the injured lover’s hell.”
Mod
The last two chapters were indeed powerful and gives us clues more into not only Bathsheba's reflections on her actions, but Fanny's. Just how did Fanny get her soldier to the alter, but she did, although she somehow went to the wrong church. And indeed by her error, we see a shift in power in the relationship. She is sure in a sorry state at the moment, because I hardly believe that this marriage — if it ever happens — will be a loving one.And Bathsheba is perhaps wondering what has changed with Boldwood who is openingly watching her. It could only be from the Valentine missive but how would he know it was her? In her mind, is she now asking herself, Does he know she sent it? It would be difficult to imagine conducting business in such a situation.
Mod
These two women are such complete contrasts. We are getting a good insight into Boldwood's state of mind, but I wonder what Sergeant Troy's is. As you say, how did Fanny get him to the altar, after the latest thing we saw was him using her as a figure of fun for his friends?
We know Troy's background, but I don't think we have a complete picture of him. Is his name a clue, as with so many other characters?
Fanny Robin is clearly one of the rural characters, but Francis Troy seems a fashionable type. There is "Troy Town" in Dorset, but that doesn't seem significant. Thomas Hardy is enjoying his classical Greek references, and we know about the fall of Troy. Could that have any bearing on his name?
Mod
As the tenant of Little Weatherbury Farm, Boldwood was as close to aristocracy as Weatherbury had, and his was the one place where it was possible for any visitors to see good society. His house was a step back from the road, and Boldwood was pacing in his stables. It was the place where he could best relax and think:
“… his fine reddish-fleshed face was bent downwards just enough to render obscure the still mouth and the well-rounded though rather prominent and broad chin. A few clear and thread-like horizontal lines were the only interruption to the otherwise smooth surface of his large forehead …
“He had no light and careless touches in his constitution, either for good or for evil. Stern in the outlines of action, mild in the details, he was serious throughout all.”
Boldwood was usually a calm man, and the narrator tells us that Bathsheba had no idea that if his equilibrium was disturbed, he would go to extremes at once, and that:
“the dark and silent shape upon which she had so carelessly thrown a seed was a hotbed of tropic intensity.”
The season was now early Spring. Boldwood went to the stable door and looked across the fields looked towards Bathsheba’s farm. In the distance he could see three figures: Miss Everdene, Shepherd Oak, and Cainy Ball. He was much affected on seeing Bathsheba, and he resolved to go and speak to her.
The three were attending to the lambs, and where there were twins they were putting one with a ewe whose lambs had died, keeping them separate from the others until the ewe had accepted her new little one. As Boldwood approached, Bathsheba looked up from the lambs, and Gabriel, seeing her face flush, too turned to look at him. Gabriel immediately suspected Bathsheba of some kind of unknown flirtation, because of the valentine.
Suddenly uncertain, Boldwood realised they had seen him, and changed his mind about speaking to Bathsheba at that moment. Instead:
“he passed by with an utter and overwhelming sensation of ignorance, shyness, and doubt. Perhaps in her manner there were signs that she wished to see him—perhaps not—he could not read a woman.”
Boldwood continued on down the road as if he hadn’t meant to join them. Bathsheba, meanwhile, recognised that it was probably because of her that he had come:
“It troubled her much to see what a great flame a little wildfire was likely to kindle.”
Although she had not been scheming for marriage, and did not deliberately trifle with men’s affections, Bathsheba’s actions had appeared to be flirtatious.
She now resolved never again to interrupt this man’s composure in any way, by even a look. But the narrator comments that such resolutions are often made too late.
Mod
Both men are rather average—indeed the beginning of the book (the Norcombe chapters) chronicled Gabriel’s “mediocrity” at length. But while a tragedy was destined to change Gabriel’s life, what looks likely to alter Boldwood’s character is an event prompted by Bathsheba herself.
Yet there is a similarity too, in that both men are “watchers”. Hardy impressed on us how Boldwood has been constantly aware of Bathsheba ever since the valentine. “Watching” does seem to be a recurring theme.
Would Boldwood be a good suitor? He is in some ways on an equal footing with Bathsheba, as both of them manage neighbouring farms. Yet Boldwood does not feel able to meet Bathsheba as an equal, because of his ignorance and uncertainty about love and courtship.
Mod
I did enjoy the descriptions of the horses in their stables, and found it very telling that Boldwood felt at home with these calm, silent, undemanding animals.
Mod
A “moorish arch” is one that is narrow at the bottom and so has a horseshoe shape. An apt comparison!
“This place was his almonry and cloister in one”:
almonry - where charities are distributed
cloister - used for meditation
So Boldwood’s “charities” consist in feeding his horses, after which he meditates.
“inanition” is lack of vigour. A lot of Victorian infant cot deaths were recorded by the doctors as due to “inanition”.
“Dryads” - Greek mythology again - dryads were minor gods presiding over trees and forests.
“the uncertain glory of an April day” (How Gabriel sees Bathsheba’s face):
The Two Gentlemen of Verona by William Shakespeare : Act 1, Scene 3:
“Oh! How this spring of love resembleth
The uncertain glory of an April day.
“cabala” (more often now “Kabbalah”) - a traditional mystical interpretation of Scriptures in Judaism: i.e. here, a doctrine having secret or hidden meanings.
Mod
Boldwood’s temperament, as described, saw me musing on similar behavioural aspects of both Rochester (Jane Eyre) and Heathcliff (Wuthering Heights).
Mod
“His equilibrium disturbed, he was in extremity at once. If an emotion possessed him at all, it ruled him…”“He had no light and careless touches in his constitution, either for good or for evil. Stern in the outlines of action, mild in the details, he was serious throughout all.”
“…a man who read all the dramas of life seriously…”
I associate those traits with the towering passion-fuelled romantic heroes that Charlotte and Emily Brontë described, although Hardy’s description does make me think that Boldwood’s temperament is possibly due to loneliness, perhaps isolation, and maybe aloofness, since he’s described as being the nearest to a member of the landed gentry in the community.
Mod
Oh yes! So is Thomas Hardy picking up on another Victorian trope, do we think? Are we going to get a sentence like "All men are subject to obsessive passions" I wonder (though I doubt it).
I like those examples and do think Thomas Hardy is giving us a complete picture, (as you go on to indicate) which we will be able to fill in more as we read. So in that way I believe he is more concerned with realism than Emily's overblown gothic conception. Like you, I can see the brooding nature of Rochester here though; Jane Eyre is a very different type of novel in my book (sorry for the pun!)
If I may digress, just a little, it must be 48 years since renowned Hardy scholar Prof Ron Draper (there’s the link!) handed me an essay topic on Jane Eyre which has stayed with me, word-for-word, for nearly five decades, “No matter with what hot haste she pursued her Rochesters, the Sunday School side of her still sang hymns”. Anyway….
Mod
I think we (i.e. the group, not a royal command 😂) approve of such "digressions" David!
Oh my, I love that essay topic, David!I've been away for a few days, but have caught up, and as always, appreciate your summaries and explanations, Jean. I love the earlier name connection you made, between Troy and the Fall of Troy. I suspect he may regret his hasty and prideful decision.
Hardy’s misogynistic comments really bring to light the way he describes men as individuals, each according to their profession or their upbringing, while women he often groups together as having common traits. Perhaps the main driver of misogyny was ignorance. And in the descriptions of Boldwood's troubling feelings, we see another accepted trope cropping up, that women were seen as mysterious and therefore dangerous.
Mod
There were two spots in this chapter that caught my attention. The first is rather foreboding, and talks about Bathsheba:
Luckily for her present, unluckily for her future tranquility, her understanding had not yet told her what Boldwood was."
The second, surprised me:
"Bathsheba was no schemer for marriage, nor was she deliberately a trifler with the affections of men"
The passage goes on to say that Bathsheba looks so much like a flirt, but if you saw an actual "flirt" you would conclude Bathsheba isn't one.
I agree she is not seeking marriage, but to me, she certainly seems to be trifling with men. Given the negative statements the narrator makes about women in general, I was surprised Thomas Hardy gave us this passage that places Bathsheba is a positive light, taking responsibility away from her when it comes to Boldwood and Oak's feelings. In saying she's not a flirt, is he saying she is misunderstood?
Mod
..."
I really like this observation, Kathleen. I think you are onto something there.
Mod
Great observation about Victorian fiction! Good to have you back Kathleen.
Mod
I too found the meaning of this quite obscured, and paraphrased it as:
Although she had not been scheming for marriage, and did not deliberately trifle with men’s affections, Bathsheba’s actions had appeared to be flirtatious."
More accurately I should have said "might have appeared to be"
The trouble is that although Thomas Hardy had in his mind what he meant by the difference, I don't think he conveyed it to us very well!
I love your comments too, and thanks for zooming in on that deliberate hint of foreshadowing for us Bridget. Great job 😊
Mod
Finally, at the end of May, Boldwood did call on Bathsheba, but was told she was not at home. He had forgotten that she was mistress of a farming estate, and would have outdoor duties to perform. He had idealised her. By the end of May Boldwood had become more used to the wild passionate extremes of being in love, and his feelings had settled into being persistent but manageable. Deep in thought, he went through the lush early summer water-meadows to the sheep-washing pool, where he had been directed. Shepherd Oak, Jan Coggan, Moon, Poorgrass, Cain Ball were all assembled, and Bathsheba stood separately by in a new riding habit. Coggan and Matthew Moon were at one end, pushing the sheep in, Gabriel was doing the work in the dip, and Cainy Ball and Joseph made sure the sheep got out of the pool safely.
Boldwood went up and greeted Bathsheba stiffly. Bathsheba did not know what to make of this, so assumed he had hoped to find her not there. She tried to withdraw, but Boldwood pursued her. He called her name, and she trembled as she turned to face him:
"to say a little is often to tell more than to say a great deal. Boldwood told everything in that word."
‘I feel—almost too much—to think,’ he said, with a solemn simplicity. - Helen Paterson - April 1874
Simply and solemnly, he said he had come to make her an offer of marriage. Bathsheba decided to try to have a neutral expression, as he went on. Boldwood said he had been a confirmed bachelor, but all that had changed upon seeing her:
"Beyond all things, I want you as my wife.’
Bathsheba stammered that while she respected him, she could not imagine accepting his offer. Now abandoning his solemn dignity, Boldwood exclaimed in a low voice that he loved her and wanted her as his wife, even if he lacked the social graces to flatter her. He added that he would not have spoken if he had not been led to hope. Then Bathsheba realised the damage the valentine had done, and felt responsible.
Bathsheba found it hard to say the right words:
"forgive me, sir—it was a wanton thing which no woman with any self-respect should have done ..." but when she said it was thoughtless Boldwood objected, exclaiming that it was not thoughtlessness, but rather the beginnings of her feelings for him. It would be torture to him if he believed it was mere thoughtlessness.
Bathsheba attempted to lighten the mood, saying with a little smile that she had not fallen in love with him, which:
"suggested an idea of heartlessness, which was immediately contradicted by the pleasant eyes."
But Boldwood began to plead:
"I fear I am too old for you, but believe me I will take more care of you than would many a man of your own age. I will protect and cherish you with all my strength—I will indeed! ... God only knows—how much you are to me!’
He had continued to try to convince her, listing all she would have as his wife.
Bathsheba felt great sympathy for this man’s simple truths, and also a little frightened:
"I cannot bear you to feel so much, and me to feel nothing ... I cannot think collectedly ... Oh, I am wicked to have made you suffer so!’
She asked him to let the matter rest, and Boldwood asked if he could ask again. Finally, she agreed to think for a while, and asked him to give her time, but not to hold out any hope. As she walked away
"Boldwood dropped his gaze to the ground, and stood long like a man who did not know where he was. Realities then returned upon him like the pain of a wound received in an excitement which eclipses it, and he, too, then went on."
Mod
"I want you to let me say I love you again and again!
Bathsheba answered nothing, and the horse upon her arm seemed so impressed that instead of cropping the herbage she looked up."
I can well imagine the astonishment at the humans' odd behaviour on the horse's face!
Mod
Bathsheba had been satisfied with Boldwood merely noticing her. She did not expect, or even really consider the possibility that such attention would not stop there. Now Bathsheba faces her second offer of marriage, and second vow of love. She initially admired Boldwood’s dignity, but has now been the cause of his loss of dignity, as he stoops to begging her to marry him. Bathsheba recognises that this is all in many ways the fault of her own vanity.
While Bathsheba tries to clarify her actual reasons for sending the valentine, Boldwood cannot imagine that anyone could be so thoughtless, especially because his own character is so different. Bathsheba is not cold or unfeeling—she does feel sympathy and pity—and those feelings prompt her to agree to consider the proposal, despite her lack of love for the man.
Mod
‘a glistening Cyclops’ eye’ - In Greek mythology, the Cyclopes were giant cannibals with only one eye, which was placed in the centre of the forehead.
‘chaise’ - a carriage with chair-backed seats
‘pony-carriage’ - a carriage with an underslung axle and lengthwise seats
Mod
(Sorry about the delay in posting today! Panic and problems with my new computer not being able to access the program where I had put my work.)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Chapter 15: A Morning Meeting—The Letter AgainInside the malthouse, the ..."
Catching up, I ran across the repeated references to twins. When Gabriel entered the malthouse, he was carrying 2 sets of twin new-born lambs on his shoulders. He is describing to the other men the status of lambing this season (it appears to be late winter here). Gabriel responds that lambing this year has been ". . . 'Terrible trying' .
'A good few twins, too, I hear?'" Gabriel responds 'Too many by half. Yes; 'tis a very queer lambing this year. And then, about an hour later, Gabriel's helper runs in with more news asking him to come assist "directly. Two more ewes have twinned---that's what's the matter, Shepherd Oak."
There is a famous set of twins in the Bible: Jacob and Essau. The twins fight in the womb, and after they are grown, the fighting continues. Jacob steals his older brother Essau's birthright by deceiving their father Isaac.
This fighting between twins has been interpreted by scholars ancient and modern to foreshadow conflict.
Works of Thomas Hardy
Books mentioned in this topic
Jane Eyre (other topics)The Two Gentlemen of Verona (other topics)
Under the Greenwood Tree (other topics)
Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Thomas Hardy (other topics)Thomas Hardy (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
Ronald P. Draper (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
More...
