The Dark Queens by Shelly Puhak - History Theme BOM Mar 2024 (starts 16 Mar)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Cat wrote: " enjoyed the rebellion of the nuns! The image of them sieging a convent is remarkably funny ..."

Oh yes! I forgot that. Classic!

[Melindam]

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Cat wrote: " enjoyed the rebellion of the nuns! The image of them sieging a convent is remarkably funny ..."

Oh yes! I forgot that. Classic!"

Yuss, badass nuns! That was impressive! :)

[Cat]

DQ4 - Chapters 28-end

15. I ended up getting the hardcover from the library and I found the photos and 'family tree' at the start really helped too bring this book to life for me in a way the audio didn't.
How about you? How did you read this?

I read the audio, and could definitely have used access to the supporting info :(

16. Brunhild's execution seemed to happen rather quickly. Maybe just because the whole book she had been this dominant force and then boom. I also found the idea of getting a camel ("a public ritual for humiliating deposed tyrants") does go to the theory that she was no 'ordinary' queen. How did you find this chapter?

Super quick! and so rude to offload Fredegonde's deeds on her! and Clothar 2 (sp?) is a bad egg in getting rid of all mentions of both Brunhilde (which makes sense, given how he'd done her & hers WRONG) but also his mother.
The whole killing of her was extra - why not just kill her quietly - I didn't fully get the elevation of her death as it would just bring more attention to the dubious charge sheets....

17. I found it amazing that there have been at least 5 discoveries of Merovingians in the 21st century and how the author describes how they were supplanted and almost written out of history by Charlemagne and his Carolingians. What were your thoughts?

18. Final thoughts on the book? Would you recommend it to others?

I would

[Audrey Jane]

Same here. Liked the book but reading it alongside you all made it more enjoyable. Thank you for joining the discussion ! Now hopefully a question about the Merovingians will pop up at a pub quiz ;) See you around !

[Cat]

Cat's posts

day 1: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
day 2: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
day 4: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Joanna]

DQ1 - Chapters 1-9
District 2

1. Just a general question for warming up: do you like reading non-fiction-history books in general? If yes, any specific eras you are more interested in than others?

Yes, I've read several non-fiction books about Queens this past year and have been enjoying them. After watching Reign, I became fascinated by the power (and lack there of) of Royal women.

2. Are you familiar with the time/historical setting of the book?

Yes, I'm familiar. I studied Art History and learned about many of these empires.

3. Which historic fact did you find the most interesting or the weirdest so far?

So far I think the most interesting fact was learning that a slave girl could become a Queen.

4. Do you think the author manages to bring these obscure characters into life? What about her writing style?

Yes, I think so. She does a good job at creating personalities for each of the characters while including their motives. Her writing style works well for the topic.

5. Concerning the poisoned dagger episode, which was one of the high points of this part (at least for me): did you think they would manage to pull it off?

This was also a high point for me! I couldn't believe they pulled it off. I was routing for the King and Brunhild and was shocked he could be murdered so easily.

[Joanna]

DQ2 - Chapters 10-19
District 2

6. Chilperic's blind devotion to Fredegonde is quite...admirable ? Isn’t it ironic that Fredegonde eliminates prince Clovis (Chilperic & Audovera's son) just in order to have to adopt Brunhilde’s son, king Childebert as the heir of Neustrie ? A miscalculation maybe ?

Yes, I’d say this was a massive miscalculation likely done out of fear of his own mortality. With the immense grief and sorrow he went through with the death of four sons, he may have felt God was telling him his direct lineage was not meant to rule.

7. In these chapters Chilperic and Fredegonde lose multiple sons to dysentery. What were your thoughts about their ways of coping with their grief and depression ?

I’m not sure there’s any proper way to grieve the death of a child. I think they did they best they could, although I wonder if there was more they could have done to prevent the dysentery in the first place.

8. What do you think of the practice of reading the letters out loud to the entire court ? “The letter would establish the overarching topic and indicate that the messenger himself was authorized to convey the rest of the information...”

I think it’s interesting, however, it gives power to the people reading the letters. They can decide what bits to leave out, and what bits to add. I’m sure this was used as a method to influence court.

9. What do you make of the two women so far: Brunhilde and Fredegonde ? Do you have a sense of getting to know them better (even though it’s via biased accounts) ?

I do have a better sense of Fredegone. So far, everything that’s happening around her feels in character to how she was described. She puts self-preservation at the core of all her motives. It will be interesting to see how she acts with the loss of the King. I would like to learn more about Brunhilde and hope the second half provides more light on her character.

10. During this section, is there an event or historical character that provoked a particular emotion or opinion while reading ?

Fredegonde torturing and killing the house maidens was appalling. I think she acted out of desperation and a mother’s fury - attempting to rid her surroundings of any chance of death.

[Joanna]

DQ3 - Chapters 20-27
District 2

11. Do you think you’ll read anything else written by Shelley Puhak? They have a book of poetry so I’ll be interested to see what that’s like. If they release a new historical nonfiction I’d be on board too.

I would be interested in new historical nonfiction book from her as well.

12. What were some of the ways society tried to control women during this period? How did both women subvert these?

Women couldn't inherit the throne and could only become a Queen through marriage, yet if her husband died, she could be removed from the realm and sent to a convent. In one instance, we saw Brunhild escape from the convent by marrying another royal who had claims to the kingdom. Women could also act as Queen Mother if their children inherited the throne. We saw both women do this.


13. The pregnancy that disappeared from the record, this really intrigued me. What do you think happened? Like Puhak mentioned it could have been an unfortunate miscarriage, an error and that she wasn’t really ever pregnant, or a calculated ploy? (or something else?)

I was intrigued as well. To me, it's written as if it was a ploy to avoid the king's attention.


14. Eek Fredegund's failed attempt to kill her own daughter was incredibly shocking. It was suggested that Fredegund was jealous of Rigunth, do you think this was the reason? She’s a loose cannon IMO

I think she saw Rigunth more as a threat; her actions were governed by her thirst for power, not jealousy, in my opinion.