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Far From The Madding Crowd
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Far from the Madding Crowd > Far From the Madding Crowd 1st Thread: Chapter 1 - 8

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Werner | 148 comments Thanks, Jean! (I'll plan to continue following this thread in the meantime.)


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Antoinette - I very much like the sound of Gabriel Oak too! He does sound like a "a warm hearted person" And as Bridget pointed out, his name seems to really suit him. 😊 So far I like him better than any we came across in Tess of the D’Urbervilles ... we had an "Angel" there, but Gabriel's surname "Oak" hints at a solid dependable person. Traditionally in England, good hardwearing furniture is made of oak.

Connie points out that already Thomas Hardy has posed intriguing questions for us, such as where the young woman is moving to. (It's lovely that this is your first time through - what a treat! 😊)


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
And Lee, thank you for the fuller details on the Biblical reference I picked out. I wonder if you have read Thomas Hardy's A Laodicean: A Story of Today? (It's not as popular as some of his others, and actually I never have!)

I intrigued by your observation that this could be foreshadowing! 🤔 What a good thought.

And isn't it interesting that although this is a comparatively early novel, Thomas Hardy is already dropping in his classical, literary and Biblical references?


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Chapter 2 Night—The Flock—An Interior—Another Interior

It is the eve of St. Thomas (December 21st) and Norcombe Hill is covered by ancient beech trees, which shelter the slope from the growling blasts of wind and shaking of the dry leaves on the ground. Between the hill and horizon is a sheet of shadow: one might stand and listen as these trees wail to the others. The sky is so clear that the constellations twinkle, and show their colours more than usual; an observer watching them might seem to feel the earth turning on its axis.

The sounds of Gabriel’s flute begin to pierce the silence. They come from a shepherd’s cot or hut under a plantation hedge, which looks like a small Noah’s Ark against the plain.

“The image as a whole was that of a small Noah’s Ark on a small Ararat, allowing the traditionary outlines and general form of the Ark which are followed by toy makers, and by these means are established in men’s imagination among the finest because the earliest impressions, to pass as an approximate pattern.”

We learn that only in the past year has Gabriel been called “Farmer.” As a boy he was a shepherd, then a bailiff, before leasing the sheep farm that includes Norcombe Hill and stocking it with 200 sheep—a venture that he recognises as requiring great responsibility.

Holding a lantern, Gabriel comes out and paces the well-cleared fields slowly but deliberately. He carries a new-born lamb back into the hut and places it on hay in front of the stove before going to sleep. The inside of the hut is cosy and small. The lamb is revived, begins to bleat, and wakens Gabriel, who carries it back outside to its mother, and determines the time—one o’clock—from the stars. He stands still, appreciating the beauty of the sky.

Then Gabriel sees an artificial light some yards away. He walks towards it and remembers that there is a cowshed here. Peering inside from the roof, he sees two women and two cows. One woman is older, while the other is young, though he can only see her “as Satan first saw Paradise” (that is, from above). The elder says they’ll go home now; the other yawns and says she wishes they were rich enough to pay a man to do these things.

Calling the elder woman “aunt,” the young woman says her hat has blown away. Gabriel sees a small, newborn calf between the two cows, and realises why they are in the hut. The aunt says there’s no more bran, so her niece says she will ride over for it in the daylight, even without a side saddle (although her aunt protests).

This makes Gabriel even more curious to see the young woman’s features, though he assumes she is beautiful. Coincidentally, at that moment the girl drops the cloak tied tight around her, and as her black hair falls over her jacket, Gabriel immediately recognises her as the girl from the yellow wagon.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Did you enjoy the pastoral beginning of this chapter? It felt quite different, didn't it. We can look forward to more beautiful descriptions of the country landscape in this novel, often placed at the beginning of a chapter. Like others, this description suggests both a tranquil, calm, and natural beauty, but we also have a sense that within this vast world, humans are largely dwarfed and insignificant.

Gabriel’s ability to read the stars shows that he is able to navigate the demands of nature better than many. He also shows himself again to be well-attuned to his surroundings and alert to any change in the natural landscape.


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We see an example of the kind of social mobility that was available in the English countryside at the time—Gabriel is able to establish himself as a self-sufficient farmer. Although he has only purchased his herd recently, his serious, determined attitude seems to suggest that he is on the right path to becoming a successful farmer. We see him being careful to monitor the status of all the animals, and taking care of them when they seem to be waning, even thought it means he has to stay in a poor hut overnight.

The comparison of Gabriel’s cot with Noah’s Ark is in part earnest, but also wryly ironic. We can see that although he now has farmer status, he is keen to perform the hard work of a shepherd himself, and not employ a shepherd - perhaps to make sure it is done properly. But ewes can give birth at any time, so he needs to be on hand. That is why he has purchased a “cot” - a little hut on wheels like a small covered cart. He can move it into position easily, but it affords more protection than a hayrick. Still, it is not very comfortable with just sacking on the floor, and it is December, an English winter!

References:

Noah’s Ark resting on Mount Ararat is from Genesis 8:4.

Satan is described as a cormorant, sitting in the Tree of Life while viewing Paradise below, in Milton’s John Milton's Paradise Lost.


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What did you think to Gabriel's “snooping” - again? Bridget pointed out yesterday that not only was he watching the two women, but also stared in at his neighbour’s windows at their clocks! It perhaps was not very mature to not announce himself. Instead he did not hesitate to indulge his curiosity and spy on two women in the cowshed, discussing the difficulties of being self-sufficient women.

Or perhaps it just shows that he is a keen observer of human nature, but lacks social graces.


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Like Gabriel, these two women are also responsible for other living creatures. Did you get the impression that it is the niece who seems to be the one of the pair who is in a position of authority? We still do not know her name, but we saw that she is independent-minded. It would be quite shocking for a woman to not ride side-saddle on a specially designed saddle at this time, but to use an ordinary one.

Gabriel has a romantic notion that any woman who is independent-minded enough to ride side-saddle must also be beautiful; but now he recognises that such a woman can also be proud and vain. We are gradually learning quite a lot about this young young woman's character too.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
And a little more …

Constellations and Stars named:

You may know these by different names (or not at all!) This chapter shows just now important it was to country people to be familiar with the movements of the stars in the different seasons.

“Ursa Major” - The Great Bear, The Plough, or The Big Dipper. (constellation)

“Orion” - The Hunter (constellation): its brightest star is “Betelgueux” (or Beetlejuice, as I was taught when I was tiny) and another bright one, “Rigel”

(This constellation is near Gemini and Taurus)

“Gemini” - The Twins - its brightest stars are “Castor and Pollux”

“Taurus” - The Bull (constellation): its brightest star is “Aldebaran” . It also contains the “Pliades”, a cluster of stars within this constellation which appear to twinkle, (or as Hardy says look “restless”.) In classical mythology this cluster is the 7 daughters of Atlas who were transformed into stars after their death.

“Auriga” (constellation) - The Charioteer: its brightest star is “Capella” .

“Pegasus” - The Winged Horse. 4 stars form a great square, with few others visible (which is presuably why Hardy says it looks “barren [and] gloomy”.

“Lyra” - The Lyre, or Harp. Its brightest star is “Vega” .

“Cassiopeia” - Hardy’s description of a chair puzzled me at first, as I always think of it as an easy-to-spot letter “W” (it has 5 bright stars for the points of the “w”). But some people think it forms a chair-like shape.

“Sirius” - The Dog Star: the brightest star we can see (even brighter then the pole star used by sailors to navigate) that is not a planet.

I think these are all the heavenly bodies Thomas Hardy names in this chapter; they would be familiar and important “friends” to the English country people of the time. It also reminds me that he was to write Two on a Tower later, (1882) which has a young stargazer Swithin St. Cleeve as its focus. Evidently Thomas Hardy must have been interested in Astronomy.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
How did you feel about this chapter? Do come and tell us, if you are reading along 😊. (The summary is linked to the beginning of the thread, as usual.)


Connie  G (connie_g) | 705 comments I was a bit surprised when Gabriel spied on the two women, especially after reading in the last chapter how he looked in windows to view people's clocks (as Bridget noted). If he gets a reputation as a "peeping Tom," he won't be trusted, especially by women.

Thomas Hardy also mentions the constellations in some of his poetry. A person seems like a small thing compared to the vastness of the universe and the stars. Like Hardy, Gabriel seems very knowledgeable about the stars. As a shepherd, he would also be watching the sky for changes in the weather that might harm his sheep.


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Pamela Mclaren | 273 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Did you enjoy the pastoral beginning of this chapter? It felt quite different, didn't it. We can look forward to more beautiful descriptions of the country landscape in this novel, often placed at ..."

I was wowed by this chapter, especially the amount of detail Hardy provided in describing the landscape, the sky and the hut. It was a bit of surprise for a second chapter but it leads perfectly into the details about Gabriel Oak.

And such a masterful way of transitioning from the new life Oak oversees in the pasture and then to get his second glimpse of the young woman as she tends to another new life, this time a calf, in the barn. I didn't react as Connie did, mostly because he wasn't sure what he would be seeing. I think of that time period as much more innocent than today.


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
I loved the beginning of this chapter too. It made me want to go outside and look at the night sky (I was reading before bed;-). Is the night sky still visible like this in Wessex? Where I live there is too much light from the cities to see the stars in detail. It’s a great example of why I like Hardy so much.

Thank you Jean for pointing out the social mobility of Farmer Oak. As a modern reader that detail slipped by me. I did recognize that girl riding astride the horse would have been scandalous. It made me like her more.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Bridget wrote: "Is the night sky still visible like this in Wessex?..."

It is sometimes, yes, at my caravan on the coast of Dorset (the Wessex of this novel) but at others there is a sea fret and it's hazy. But in summer it can be beautifully clear. 😊Near London though (where I am right now) it is more like what you describe, I think.

But the cities still have a certain amount of visibility. I grew up in a Northern city and my father used to show me the planets and constellations in the night sky, and we looked at them through a big telescope at the museum (he used to run the city's amateur Astronomical Society).


Kathleen | 111 comments I loved it too, especially the paragraph about how standing alone on a hill you can almost feel the earth turning. I've experienced that a few times on nights like he describes!


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "I loved it too, especially the paragraph about how standing alone on a hill you can almost feel the earth turning. I've experienced that a few times on nights like he describes!"

Lovely Katheen! 😊


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Chapter 3: A Girl On Horseback—Conversation

Gabriel walked back to the coppice on Norcombe Hill, lost in thought. At the bottom of the hill, he saw the girl on a pony from afar, and wondered if she had come to look for her hat. He looked round, and spied it lying in a ditch, and took it back to his hut. The girl rode up to the hedge near him, where there was a narrow track and low hanging branches. Gabriel was about to emerge to give her the hat, when he saw the girl look round to see if anyone was watching. Then she slipped easily down the back of the horse until she was lying horizontal with her feet on the horse’s neck, so that she could pass under the trees. After she had glided through safely, she sprang back again to ride it astride—which was unexpected for a woman.

Amused and surprised, Gabriel returned to his sheep. An hour later, the girl returned with a bag of bran. A boy met her near the cattle shed; they milked the cow together. Gabriel followed with her hat, and waited for her outside. She emerged, bright and cheerful, and seemed surprised to see Gabriel’s face rising from behind the hedge.



The Young Woman Carrying a Milk Pail - Helen Patterson - January 1874

Gabriel noticed her severe, regular features, better-proportioned than most girls, though her neck and shoulders were entirely covered, the neckline of her dress being worn higher in the country than in towns. He blushed a little and said he had found a hat. She said it had blown away the night before, and Gabriel surprised her by knowing it was at one o’clock, because, he said, he was there. She asked about his farm, then said that she had needed her hat this morning to ride to town on an errand to Tewnell Mill for her aunt. He says he knew that too—he had seen her going down the hill—and met her eyes. Now she was the one to blush heavily, while he politely turned away. After a while, he heard a sound and looked up, but she had left. With a mixture of emotions, Gabriel went back to work.

Each day for five days, the young woman returned regularly to milk the cow, but ignored Gabriel Oak. Not so much the fact that he had seen her behaving inappropriately, but that he let her know he had seen this, had embarrassed and offended her. It looked as if they would not get to know each other, except for one incident.

One evening that week, a frost spread over the land, and so Gabriel went inside his cot to get warm, and heaped extra fuel upon the stove. The wind kept getting in though, and he decided to keep both the door and ventilation hole closed just for a moment, until it warmed up, (even though he knew a cot needed ventilation if there was a fire). Then Gabriel fell asleep without opening either, and when he opened his eyes, discovered to his confusion that his head was on the girl’s lap.



Hands Were Loosening His Neckerchief- Helen Patterson January 1874

Seeming amused, she said it was remarkable that he wasn’t suffocated, and scolded him for keeping both the vent and door closed. Absently, Gabriel agreed, feeling a mix of embarrassment and pleasure. She explained that she heard his dog howling, and found him near death.

Gabriel said that she had saved his life, and asked her name, but she was reluctant to give it, and said he may ask for it at her aunt’s. He told her his own, and they exchanged banter, before he asked to shake her hand to thank her for saving him. Embarrassed, he barely touched it before letting it go, and then said he was sorry he had. The girl gave it back to him, and when he commented on how soft it was, asked archly if he’d like to kiss it. But when he said he was not thinking of that, she snatched it away, then teasingly told him to find out her name, before leaving.

Gabriel was left feeling tactless.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
I am beginning to feel a bit sorry for Gabriel, who is coming across as rather clumsy and oafish in his dealings with females, even though he is 28. Increasingly he spies on the young woman from afar; attracted to her even though he is a little judgmental about her behaviour and thinks her vain and independent. For her part, she has a sense of pride that makes her reluctant to associate with someone who has seen her at a weak moment.

Gabriel may be dutiful and hard-working, but we can see here that he is still new at farming, as he makes the mistake of falling asleep without making sure that he is safe, and that the cot is properly ventilated when the fire is roaring. Now it is Gabriel’s turn to have his pride wounded at having to be saved, although unlike the young woman, he does feel a more complicated mix of emotions. He is fascinated despite himself, admiring her but judging her too.

Perhaps to modern eyes as Bridget said, she is appealing. In riding astride the pony like a man, she shows a lack of concern for the gender norms of the time. Another feature we can pick up is that she prefers a decorous rather than a low-cut dress. She is therefore a creature of the country, not of the town, with its more showy fashions.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Hardy's view of females in Far From the Madding Crowd:

As the chapter ends, we see Gabriel allowing his feelings of attraction to come to the fore, but it seems to go wrong yet again. Even though the young girl may be a simple woman from the country, teasing and flirting come naturally to her, and she is quick to reject anyone who does not (or cannot) respond in kind.

But yet again I came back to a jarring note from this “omniscient” narrator, with: “she observed in a tone which showed her to be that novelty among women—one who finished a thought before beginning the sentence which was to convey it.” This perhaps passed as good observation of the female temperament, but seems rather pettish and snide of Thomas Hardy, and to smack of prejudice to me! Or is it intended to be tongue in cheek?

Perhaps it is relevant that Thomas Hardy was engaged to be married to his first wife, Emma Gifford. Their wedding did not take place until 17th September of this year (1874). Perhaps they were having lovers' tiffs, and his view of the "female of the species" was a bit jaundiced when he wrote Far From the Madding Crowd? I have not noticed this in his other novels. Quite the reverse, as he is generally regarded as a champion of women.

Personally I would prefer him not to insert these generalisations. He said before that one seemingly vain young woman was displaying typical traits of all women. Here he claims that she is unusual for a women in not having a butterfly mind! I definitely think that Emma must have been giving him a hard time! 😂


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
And a little more …

We read that Gabriel Oak’s sheep farm is situated in “Norcombe Hill”, which is half wooded. The real life location of this is WESTCOMBE COPPICE, which covers part of a spur of Toller Down, between Toller Whelme and Hooke.

The young woman says she has ridden on an errand for her aunt, to “Tewnell Mill”. In real life the old MILLHOUSE at HOOKE lies three quarters of a mile from Westcombe Coppice.

The description of the girl as:

“a graceful and proportionate figure of eight heads” sounds odd, but refers to the classical ideal for the well-proportioned body: the height should be 8x that of the head.

The next sentence “Without throwing a Nymphean tissue over a milkmaid” i.e. Hardy does not want to imply that a milkmaid could be as pretty as a nymph.

When the young girl blushes, these “Maiden’s Blush, through all varieties of the Provence down to the Crimson Tuscany” are all different varieties of roses.

When Gariel is roused by the young woman, he “began wiping his face and shaking himself like a Samson”. This refers to Judges 16:20 in which Samson wakes from sleep and says “I will go out as at other times before and shake myself”.

“yeaning ewes” are female sheep giving birth, and “ovine” is to sheep what “bovine” is to cows.


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Over to you! Let's have lots of comments. 😁


Kathleen | 111 comments I felt the same pity for Gabriel, Jean. It appears, when it comes to his neighbor anyway, he is in way over his head!

Your explanation of the phrases was so helpful, Jean! Good to know about the classical ideal. :-)

And I agree about Hardy's generalizations about women. I've often heard readers say they don't like him because of his depiction of women. Having started with Jude, I wasn't sure why that would be, other than how easy it is to look at writing from the past through contemporary eyes. But I'm definitely seeing an attitude here!


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "I'm definitely seeing an attitude here! ..."

I'm glad you've said that Katheen as it came as quite a shock! But I have to admit that it is his later novels which are favourites of mine, so I must have just forgotten. (I've read Far From the Madding Crowd 3 or 4 times, the most recent being in 1993.)

Still, I think it's a great story, and a good contrast to our previous one both in terms of mood, and style: where Thomas Hardy was in his writing life 😊

It will be interesting to track his judgements of womankind as we read through this one.


Pamela Mclaren | 273 comments Thank you indeed for the explanation of those phrases, Jean. I was hoping that you would do that. It adds so much to the understanding of what is going on.

I'm glad to about your discussion about Hardy and that comment about the finishing a thought before speaking — it felt very spiteful. I didn't like it at all, indeed, I found the line jarring.

Like Kathleen and you, I thought that Gabriel was coming over as very clumsy around the young woman, and I felt sorry for him because of her rebuke. It reminded me of two awkward teens on a first date! Only they are just getting to slowly know each other a bit.

So far I have enjoyed the story — I'm sorry that I'm late in reading the chapter but I'm going to sit down and read the next right away.


Erich C | 131 comments As others have noticed, Gabriel has a habit of looking at the young woman secretly, or at least from an inconspicuous position. The first time is when she is waiting on the wagon as he is "glancing over the hedge" from what Hardy calls his "point of espial." Then he sees her with her aunt through a hole in the milking hut. Finally, when Gabriel watches the woman on horseback, he looks at her from his hut as he "peeped through the loophole."

Later, when Gabriel meets the woman to return her hat, Hardy discusses how the "rays of male vision" tend to cause blushing in a "virgin face," but it is Gabriel who ends up blushing. (The woman also didn't blush from shame when she looked at herself in the mirror in Chapter 1; rather, she blushed with pleasure at seeing herself.) Gabriel offends her when he tells her that he has seen her during a private moment when she was vulnerable: "Gabriel's espial had made her an indecorous woman without her own connivance."


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Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Erich, I’m so glad you pointed out the moment where Gabriel blushes instead of the girl. I liked that moment too. I thought it made the girl seem superior, in a way, to Gabriel. She’s not effected by male gaze, as some women would be. Maybe she’s not as vain as Gabriel supposed earlier?

Jean thank you for the details about the real life towns, what they are like and how far apart they are. That’s incredibly helpful. I have a much easier time picturing the surroundings.

Finally, I have to mention the hero of this chapter …… Farmer Oak’s dog!! Thank goodness for his quick action, and loud barking.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Pamela wrote: "It reminded me of two awkward teens on a first date! ..."

Yes! 😂 I can't imagine that all country people (nearing 30!) would be like this. Perhaps it emphasises the solitary life of a shepherd, never learning the appropriate social graces. As for the girl, I try to make allowances for her clearly being quite a bit younger.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Erich C wrote: "As others have noticed, Gabriel has a habit of looking at the young woman secretly, or at least from an inconspicuous position..."

Thanks Erich for picking up on these 2 aspects and giving more textual detail, which really is very useful. 😊

It does seem as though Gabriel can't help himself spying doesn't it, which at least shows a self-consciousness that he shouldn't be always staring at her, however much of a crush he has. The blushing ties in to this, but as you say, both of them blush for different reasons.


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Bridget wrote: "Erich, I’m so glad you pointed out the moment where Gabriel blushes instead of the girl. I liked that moment too. I thought it made the girl seem superior, in a way, to Gabriel ..."

I'm not sure I have a handle on this girl yet. She is experienced and sensible enough to realise when something is badly wrong - and to do something about it herself rather than panic uselessly. (I did laugh though, when she realised that throwing warm milk over Gabriel might not be as effective as cold water! 😁

But she can't resist flirting, even at this moment of high drama ... it must be in her nature. Perhaps it is part of what she views as her independence, and used here to deflect any more serious talk.

I'm so pleased the location and other details are useful. 😉


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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Chapter 4: Gabriel’s Resolve—The Visit—The Mistake

While the narrator claims that only unconscious superiority is acceptable in women, he asserts that such conscious superiority can sometimes be pleasing to men as well, if the man tries to capture them. This is what happened to Gabriel, who began to wait for the young woman every day and to watch for her through the hedge. He had discovered that her name was Bathsheba Everdene, and that in a week her cow would give no more milk. On the eighth day she no longer came up the hill.

Gabriel repeated her name over and over to himself. Then it dawned on him that marriage might be a way to resolve such silliness. But he needed an excuse to visit Bathsheba’s aunt. When one of his ewes died, he decided to carry its lamb in a basket over to Mrs. Hurst, her aunt, accompanied by his dog George.

Gabriel dressed and prepared properly, not showily, although he needed to use all the hair oil he had. He walked up to the garden gate and saw a cat, which postured aggressively at the sight of George. A voice from behind some bushes where the cat had run to, exclaimed that the nasty brute wanted to kill the poor dear of a cat. Gabriel called out that George was a mild-tempered dog, but no one responded.

Abashed, Gabriel went to the door, and asked for Miss Everdene, saying “somebody” would like to see her—an example not of ill breeding, but of the modesty of the rural world, the narrator notes. Mrs. Hurst said that Bathsheba was out but invited him in. Gabriel said he had brought a lamb for her to rear, as girls liked to do. Then Gabriel admitted that his real reason for coming was to ask if she would like to marry him, and asked if there were any other men interested. Mrs. Hurst said there were quite a few, as she was so pretty and intelligent. She was once going to be a governess, she adds, but was too wild. Gabriel said that he was an ordinary man, and that his only hope had been to be the first suitor. Dejected, he took his leave.

After a hundred yards, Gabriel heard a voice: Bathsheba was running after him, and he blushed. She paused, red herself, out of breath and panting, and said her aunt had made a mistake in sending her away. Gabriel was full of anticipation, and said that he was sorry to have made her run so fast. Bathsheba continued that it was a pity to have him think she had multiple sweethearts, when she had never had even one.

Gabriel seized her hand, but she released it quickly. He told her he had a nice farm, and made sure by his manner that Bathsheba knew he had worked hard and got on well. He stepped forward, but Bathsheba backed away, and with round eyes said she never agreed to marry him. Dismayed, Gabriel asked in that case, why had she run after him? She eagerly said that she hated to be thought of as a man’s property, so she just wanted to clear up the false impression he had.

Gabriel asked if she might reconsider, given how much he loved her. She said that she would try to think, if he would give her time. He listed what he might be able to give her as a husband, but when he said they would share everything—and that he would be there whenever she looked up at home by the fire—her face fell, and she repeated that she didn’t want to marry him. She said she wouldn’t mind being a bride at a wedding, but she didn’t want a husband to go with it.

Gabriel didn’t understand this at all, and asked why Bathsheba could not marry him. Bathsheba said that she did not love him. Gabriel said he could accept her just liking him, although she protested. He stressed:

“I shall do one thing in this life—one thing certain—that is, love you, and long for you, and keep wanting you till I die.”

Distressed, Bathsheba regretted running after him: she said she was too independent, and he would never be able to tame her. Besides, she was poor, better educated than him, and did not love him. He should marry a woman with money to help with the farm, she said.

Gabriel, surprised and admiring, naively said he’d been thinking of that himself. This disconcerted Bathsheba, though he hastily added that it is in spite of that that he couldn’t help loving her. But she laughed nervously and asks him to stop pressing her. However, the narrator tells us:

“No man likes to see his emotions the sport of a merry-go-round of skittishness”,

and so Gabriel finally and firmly agreed, with the air of someone devoting the rest of his life to Scripture, saying he would ask her no more.


message 81: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 06:59AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Oh dear! We don’t know how old Bathsheba is, but she behaves very impulsively, doesn’t she? And it’s odd that Gabriel did not attempt to court Bathsheba before proposing marriage. Did you enjoy the account of him smartening himself up to be her beau? I loved this, and the fact that he had to use a whole bottle of hair oil to make his hair lie flat! It was tongue-in-cheek of course, and perhaps using a bit too much hair oil suggests that he may not look as sophisticated as he would have liked.

Thomas Hardy points out the differences between town and country life, saying that the city is more sophisticated, and country life is more simple and straightforward. We see this in Gabriel’s diving straight in with a proposal of marriage before any courting. But this scene suggests that country people are not necessarily as simple-minded as they seem: Mrs. Hurst implies that her niece is a great catch for any man, and more valuable than a poor farmer can hope for.

Then at first, Gabriel thought that the only reason Bathsheba could be returning was to accept his offer. But once again, we see that her pride is paramount. She is more bothered about convincing Gabriel of her own independence, than of what what chasing after him might imply.

Bathsheba shilly shallies about whether or not to consider Gabriel’s offer of marriage. He know that she sets store by material things, and tries to tempt her with what he considers are treats for a young woman. But Bathsheba is used to having her own way. Ironically, it is the element which he thinks is most appealing—the sharing of everything—which decides her to refuse him.


message 82: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 05:30AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Gabriel’s naivety in admitting Bathsheba is not as good a match for him as a wealthy woman, who could help him establish himself would be, is so full of pathos. 😥 He too is evidently new at love.

Poor Gabriel seems so smitten doesn’t he, and increasingly willing to settle for less and less from Bathsheba; a simple partnership rather than a pact of love. And Bathsheba begins to understand what damage she caused, by running after him simply to correct his mistaken impression. But what we are left with is a direct and staightforward (albeit naive) man who prizes honesty and hard work above everything else, having fallen for someone who is arch, and appears rather shallow (although she could just be young). He seems obsessed, and to have given up on love, if he cannot marry her.

“Farmer Oak had one-and-a-half Christian characteristics too many to succeed with Bathsheba: his humility, and a superfluous moiety of honesty.”

Possible emblems:

I was wondering if the “holly bush, now laden with red berries” was a sign of danger to come. We seem to have quite a bit of red again in this chapter, such as both blushing or being red in the face. The cat showing a fiery temper with a placid dog seems significant too.


message 83: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 04:56AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
And a little more …

“—Full of sound and fury,
—Signifying nothing—“


is from William Shakespeare’s Macbeth - Act 5 Scene 5. Macbeth reacts to the news of (view spoiler) by saying life is:

“A tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.“


I enjoyed the amusing passage about the passive dog:

“The dog took no notice, for he had arrived at an age at which all superfluous barking was cynically avoided as a waste of breath—in fact, he never barked even at the sheep except to order, when it was done with an absolutely neutral countenance, as a sort of Commination-service, which, though offensive, had to be gone through once now and then to frighten the flock for their own good.”

Commination-service is an Morning Prayer service held on Ash Wednesday in Anglican churches. It includes a recital of divine curses against sinners, intended to make them “walk more warily in these dangerous days”.

A “ten-pound gig” (promised to Bathsheba should she marry him) was a small two-wheeled horse cart then worth about £10.

In the final sentence, we have another allusion, half earnest and half ironic, that invests Gabriel with Biblical grandeur. We are told he had “the bearing of one who was going to give his days and nights to Ecclesiastes for ever.”

Ecclesiastes is a Book of the Old Testament whose themes include the vanity of human desires and the inevitability of adversity in life. (Poor Gabriel!)

“Weatherbury”, where Bathsheba’s uncle lives, is in real life the village of PUDDLETOWN. Originally it was called Piddletown. (Yes, I know these real names sound more unlikely than Hardy’s fictitious Wessex ones, but I promise you this is true! The first time I saw the road sign - years ago - I took a picture of it 😂) It is 5 miles North-East of Dorchester.


message 84: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Your thoughts on chapter 4 and up to now?


message 85: by Pamela (last edited Mar 20, 2024 10:48AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Pamela Mclaren | 273 comments Jean, you express the feeling of this chapter so well. I felt for both Bathsheba and Gabriel — they just seem to say the wrong thing at every turn. I'm surprised that neither considered taking it slow and seeing whether their feelings will change.


message 86: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Yes, good point Pamela, especially in the country where the pace of life is generally slower than in towns and cities.


Kathleen | 111 comments Erich’s comment about Oak’s secret looking got me to wondering if I have been guilty of this in the past. I was painfully shy in my youth, and while I can’t think of specifics, I bet I was in the habit of watching people from behind some kind of protective shield. It could be merely extreme shyness.

I love George the dog, and am happy to see Hardy giving him something of a voice! As Jean mentioned, the reactions of the dog (mild) and the cat (aggressive) could certainly be seen as symbolic of their people.


message 88: by Bridget, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "I love George the dog, and am happy to see Hardy giving him something of a voice."

I felt that way too, Kathleen. Hardy has given George a real personality and I'm loving it. The paragraph Jean quoted about George above is one of my favorite passages from this chapter.

I know yesterday I commented that maybe Bathsheba isn't as vain as she appears, but I've changed my mind after this comment:

"for a marriage would be very nice in one sense. People would talk about me, and think I had won my battle, and I should feel triumphant, and all that".

So, okay, she is a vain girl. Still, I haven't made up my mind completely because as Jean pointed out she is also possibly very young, we don't know for sure. She's definitely impulsive, and self-willed. That makes me like her.

I do like Gabriel too. He's obviously not good at social situations, but he seems like a good man. The description of his hair about oiling it made me laugh: "a splendidly novel colour between that of guano and Roman cement". So funny!!


message 89: by Erich C (last edited Mar 21, 2024 01:07PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Erich C | 131 comments Bathsheba's unconventionality is contrasted with the very pragmatic Gabriel Oak from the beginning. When Bathsheba looks into her mirror in the wagon, the vanity is that it is done without regard for "the customary spot and necessary occasion of such an act." When Gabriel offers to shake hands after she has rescued him from the hut, she is "somewhat disconcerted at Oak's old-fashioned earnest conclusion." When he tells her his name, she does not reciprocate. She does not consider the impression it will give Gabriel when she runs after him.

The narrator, whom we've noticed likes to make pronouncements about what men are like and what women are like, shows himself also to be conventional. Since Thomas Hardy is creating such an unconventional heroine, I wonder how ironic the narrator's stance is.

In addition to the fact that Bathsheba first appeared with a caged canary, Hardy has associated her with birds at other times. When Bathsheba slides backward on the horse, Hardy writes that "The rapidity of her glide into this position was that of a kingfisher - its noiselessness that of a hawk." When she runs to catch up with Gabriel, she is "panting like a robin."

When I checked online, I saw that a kingfisher symbolizes freedom, courage, adventure, and balance and a hawk represents awareness, intuition, and focus. A robin is renewal and new beginnings. I don't know how much this would align with late Victorian symbolism.


message 90: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 04:29PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "I was painfully shy in my youth,... It could be merely extreme shyness"

Yes, that's a good point Kathleen. I remember one episode when I was 11-12 years old, and a group of us had gone to see our teacher who had just retired (she seemed ancient!) I was listening to everyone happily chatting, and quite enjoying being there in her home, when the retired teacher barked out at me "Don't be stand-offish Jean!" I felt the slight so much, and never really understood it.


message 91: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 04:30PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Bridget wrote: "a splendidly novel colour between that of guano and Roman cement". So funny!! ..."

It really is, isn't it? I alway forget how funny Thomas Hardy can be until I read him again! Yet he's often thought of as rather a dour author.

The quotation you included certainly makes us wince at Bathsheba's apparent self-centredness! Perhaps nobody has taught her to think of others. We don't really know why she is with her aunt.


message 92: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 20, 2024 04:38PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Erich C wrote: "Since Thomas Hardy is creating such an unconditional heroine, I wonder how ironic the narrator's stance is ..."

This is an excellent question. Sometimes I have wondered if Thomas Hardy is being tongue-in-cheek, and at others the irony is laid on with a trowel, but yet others seem to be the author pontificating! Perhaps it will become clearer as we move through the novel.

I keep reminding myself that this was published anonymously, and as such Thomas Hardy would want to please both the general reading public and his editor, to ensure future sales.

I very much enjoy all the instances you give of bird symbolism, thank you Erich! 😊


message 93: by Lee (last edited Mar 20, 2024 06:49PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Who is Farmer Oak exactly, and what is Hardy telling us? First, I recall Chapter 2's heading: "Night--The Flock--An Interior--Another Interior"

One of the interiors being suggested is Oak's. "Oak's motions, though they had a quiet energy, were slow, and their deliberateness accorded well with his occupation. . . Yet, his special power, morally, physically, and mentally, was static, owing little or nothing to momentum as a rule."

And then powerfully, through an intimation that the reader should be well acquainted with the Wisdom Literature of the Bible, he is described in Ch 4 as possessing "the bearing of one who was going to give his days and night to Ecclesiastes for ever."

Here I refer you to the verses in Ecclesiastes that are familiar to every Christian and non-Christian alike:

(Spoiler tag included simply to keep the post short, but entire passage is relevant in view of Thomas Hardy's linking Gabriel to Ecclesiastes):

"For everything there is a season, and a
time for every matter under heaven;
a time to be born, and a time to die;
(view spoiler)
Eccl 3:1-8 (NRSV)


Gabriel will "give his days and nights to Ecclesiastes for ever".


message 94: by Lee (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Regarding message 92 Bionic Jean, and Erich in message 89:

For those of us like myself who are not familiar with the term "ironic narrator", I found this in Wikipedia:

"Ironic narrator: The narrator makes a statement about the characters or events in the story that means something very different, even the opposite, to what is being stated. Thus, the narrator is being ironic."


message 95: by Lee (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 100 comments Erich C wrote: in message 89 "Bathsheba's unconventionality is contrasted with the very pragmatic Gabriel Oak from the beginning. ." AND
"Since Thomas Hardy is creating such an unconditional heroine" . . .
Erich, didn't you mean 'unconventional heroine'? That threw me for a second! lol


message 96: by Bridget, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bridget | 858 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Who is Farmer Oak exactly, ..."

Lee, I really like that quote you use of Farmer Oak. I remember reading "static" and "little momentum" and thinking that sounds just like an Oak tree to me.


message 97: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 21, 2024 06:48AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Who is Farmer Oak exactly, and what is Hardy telling us?..."

Thank you for asking this Lee! And for your analysis and additional information zooming in on the passage in Ecclesiastes.

Has everyone noticed that there is no internal narration: nothing about the characters' internal thought or feelings, so far? We are not privy to what Gabriel or Bathsheba are thinking, although we do have the narrator's observations (which we have already noticed can be questionable!)

The Thomas Hardy scholar and biographer Michael Millgate says that Thomas Hardy felt he needed to create Gabriel Oak "cold" in the opening pages:

"It seems to have been Hardy's preferred method to display his prinicipal characters in dramatised episodes before introducing them directly to the reader, certainly before offering an analysis of their personalities or any internal view of the characters' internal thought or feelings."

It may be interesting for us to track this as we read, and see if Thomas Hardy does begin to show us what the characters are actually feeling, and not just present us with the scene and leave us to deduce it.


message 98: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 21, 2024 06:53AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
We can tell with the title of this next chapter that it will not be easy reading. So please take a deep breath as we begin …


message 99: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 21, 2024 06:52AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
Chapter 5: Depature of Bathsheba—A Pastoral Tragedy

Gabriel heard that Bathsheba had left the area for Weatherbury. This separation allowed him to idealise her even more, and he concentrated on his farming instead. One of Gabriel’s sheep-dogs, George, was clever and trustworthy. However George’s son did not resemble George much; he was slow to learn but keen and over-enthusiastic. In fact:

“So earnest and yet so wrong-headed was this young dog (he had no name in particular, and answered with perfect readiness to any pleasant interjection), that if sent behind the flock to help them on, he did it so thoroughly that he would have chased them across the whole county with the greatest pleasure if not called off or reminded when to stop by the example of old George.”

Both dogs had belonged to “a shepherd of inferior morals and dreadful temper” who used to curse and swear at them a lot.

On the edge of the hill was a chalk pit, bordered by two hedges, which left a narrow opening covered only by a rough railing. One Sunday night Gabriel returned home, looking forward to a good night’s sleep in his bed for once. He called to the dogs, but only George answered. Then Gabriel remembered that he had left the two dogs eating a dead lamb on the hill, so he went to bed, allowing the other to finish his meal. Just before dawn, he heard an urgent sound of sheep-bells, and realised that it meant the sheep were running quickly.

Gabriel jumped out of bed and dressed in great haste, racing up the hill. He only saw the 50 who were due to give birth soon, safe in the pen. Two hundred of the flock had disappeared and there was a gap in the hedge. Gabriel followed, but they were not in the coppice, and there was no answer to his calls. Then he saw, at the edge of the chalk pit, the younger dog against the sky, silent and still like Napoleon at St. Helena. Horrified, Gabriel saw the sheep’s footprints and raced to the precipice. The dog came to lick his hand, sure of a job well done. Gabriel looked over the cliff:

“The ewes lay dead and dying at its foot—a heap of two hundred mangled carcasses, representing in their condition just now at least two hundred more.”

Gabriel’s first impulse was to feel pity and sorrow for the fate of all the gentle ewes and unborn lambs. Then he remembered that the sheep were not insured, and that his life’s savings were thus gone.

“The sheep were not insured. –All the savings of a frugal life had been dispersed at a blow: his hopes of being an independent farmer were laid low—possibly for ever. Gabriel’s energies patience and industry had been so severely taxed, during the years of his life between eighteen and eight and twenty, to reach his present stage of progress that no more seemed to be left in him.”

He leaned against a rail and covered his face with his hands. Soon after, he uttered his first words:

“Thank God I am not married: what would shehave done in the poverty now coming upon me!”

In a daze, Gabriel realised that the young dog must have had a lot of energy after his meal, which he worked off by to driving all the sheep into a corner, through the hedge, across the field, and then worried them enough to give them the momentum to break down the railing and hurl over the edge.

“George’s son had done his work so thoroughly that he was considered too good a workman to live …”

The dog was shot at noon that day, as is the fate of many who take reasoning to its logical conclusion, says the narrator. Gabriel needed to sell everything he owned to be able to clear his debts, and was left with only the clothes on his back.


message 100: by Bionic Jean, Moderator (last edited Mar 21, 2024 06:55AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 1980 comments Mod
This concludes installment 1. We now have a day free, and begin chapter 6 on Saturday


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