What are we reading? 12/02/2024

[Lass]

Oh,yes… What Katy Did!

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "Don't remember all my early favourites, but here goes ( several overlaps, too):

Winnie-the-Pooh
Little Grey Rabbit
various Beatrix Potter
Milly-Molly-Mandy
The Famous Five
Swallows and Amazons
I W..."

winnie the pooh, great books....i have been to the place where it was set as a kid, was very exciting and we played pooh sticks!

[giveusaclue]

Gpfr wrote: "Don't remember all my early favourites, but here goes ( several overlaps, too):

Winnie-the-Pooh
Little Grey Rabbit
various Beatrix Potter
Milly-Molly-Mandy
The Famous Five
Swallows and Amazons
I W..."

Ha, Milly Molly Mandy in a little cottage with gingham curtains in her bedroom!

Famous Five,
Secret Seven,
Peter and Jane (first year at school)
Biggles

[CCCubbon]

I forgotto mention Charlie andthe Chocolate Factory. The first time that I read it was from the original book illustration where the Oopah Loopahs are black not white as in the later editions
( wish I had kept my copy!)

@give
Ahhhh Peter and Jane….
Class sizes were large. Imagine hearing
‘Here is Peter’
‘Here is Jane’
Everyday! Takes ages to get round a class to hear everyone read, cannot do it in a day.
I spent some time teaching adults to read in the evenings and remember taking that first book along to one lady - she didn’t mind that it was a children’s book. Her husband could not read either. She told me that if a letter came she would gove it to him , he would look at it then take it next door to have it read to him. Her grown up daughters had persuaded her to learn. When she mastered the very basics she went on to evening classes.
If you are wondering about the maths I took a maths degree in my spare time while teaching and transferred to math teaching at Secondary level. I am mostly self taught!

[giveusaclue]

CCCubbon wrote: "I forgotto mention Charlie andthe Chocolate Factory. The first time that I read it was from the original book illustration where the Oopah Loopahs are black not white as in the later editions
( wis..."

I'm impressed with your efforts CC.. Class size - my 11-plus class had 44 pupils in it.

[FrancesBurgundy]

Lass wrote: "Oh,yes… What Katy Did!"

I just re-read What Katy Did the other day. What can I say? I liked the characters and the writing but I'm not sure how today's children would like it. Very dated, religion brought into it a lot, disobeying rules bringing life-threatening injuries, suffering bringing redemption. We were of another era.

And I still don't know what a katydid is (that must have added something for American readers), or what sassafras is!

[CCCubbon]

giveusaclue wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "I forgotto mention Charlie andthe Chocolate Factory. The first time that I read it was from the original book illustration where the Oopah Loopahs are black not white as in the lat..."

Yes, class sizes were much larger , think 51 my biggest. 20+ Reception. No teaching assistants. Hard work!

[Robert]

Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone

Welcome to the new thread.
As always, happy reading to all!"

Thanks.

[Paul]

Ooh, early favorite books. I can remember a few:

The Three Little Pigs
The Little Engine That Could
The Monster at the End of this Book

Then a little later on:
The Hobbit
20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
Superfudge
A Wrinkle In Time series
Watership Down
Bunnicula series
Willy Wonka
James and the Giant Peach
Treasure Island
A Light in the Attic
Ramona Quimby, Age 8...series
The Indian In The Cupboard
From The Mixed-Up Files of Ms Basil E Frankweiler
The Phantom Tollbooth
The House With The Clock In The Walls

[AB76]

Paul wrote: "Ooh, early favorite books. I can remember a few:

The Three Little Pigs
The Little Engine That Could
The Monster at the End of this Book

Then a little later on:
The Hobbit
20,000 Leagues Unde..."

my omissions from my original list continue...Roald Dahl,...how i could forget him... he was a fixture of my childhood with his witty stories and his autobiography series, written for kids, they were cult reading at school

[scarletnoir]

Gpfr wrote: "Andrea Camilleri...I prefer the French translation. I think the translator has done a better job with Catarella in particular."

I can believe that - the humour with Catarella doesn't work too well in the English translation. On screen, it's still petty funny (if repetitive) with the very good performance from the actor.

[scarletnoir]

giveusaclue wrote: "given that Camilleri was 90 or so, perhaps we ought to cut him some slack."

Oh, absolutely - I think after a while you get to like the author as well as the character - I did, anyway, after reading about Camilleri's life and politics, which in any case can be deduced from the books.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

[scarletnoir]

Looking at the books read as children, I can't remember a comprehensive list (I wonder whether my 'diaries' - which contained very little except for lists of books read and - later -films seen - still lurk in a drawer. They have probably been thrown out!) Anyway, in roughly chronological age:

Wilbert Audry - Thomas the Tank Engine series

Anna Sewell - Black Beauty - had me in floods of tears every time (think I read it six times!) ... possibly abridged (?)

Enid Blyton - Secret Seven; Famous Five
Richmal Crompton - Just William books
The 1950s-60s Oxford (or Collins?) Abridged Classics for Children, of which:
Treasure Island and Kidnapped by RL Stevenson
Moby Dick by Herman Melville (never got on with the full version!)
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain (I may possibly have read the full length versions?)
White Fang and The Call of the Wild -Jack London

Eric Leyland - the 'Flame' series, and many others
John Pudney - the (daily) adventure - 'Saturday Adventure' etc. set around Fort X (Fort Halstead in reality - I had a friend at uni whose father worked there!)
Capt. WE Johns- Biggles series - plus his SF series
Henry Treece - The Eagles have flown (Roman conquest)

then onto classic whodunits:
Agatha Christie
Ngaio Marsh
Dorothy L Sayers

and the Americans:
Erle Stanley Gardner
Ellery Queen

and then more grown up stuff:
Eric Ambler
Ian Fleming
Graham Greene...

and so on!

Also in early years, some books in Welsh:

'Llyfr Mawr y Plant' (The big book for children) - a sort of annual with many stories, my favourite starring 'Cochyn' ('Red' -a fox) who would cunningly steal a hen or a goose from the farmer for his 'wife' and 'children'.

'Nedw' - E Tegla Davies - a hilarious bucolic tale iirc, published in 1928 - I had to dig out my copy from next door, and should re-read it. Great for kids but will it stand up for adults? The title perhaps should be rendered orthographically as Ned'w - since Ned is a name, and the 'w is added in certain regional dialects to attract the attention of the person in question. But it's 'Nedw' on the title cover.

[Gpfr]

I've finished Rebecca Lowe's The Slow Road to Tehran: A Revelatory Bike Ride through Europe and the Middle East and am glad to have accompanied her on her gruelling 'bike ride'.

Starting off through Europe, as she moved eastwards towards Turkey I was reminded of my hitchhiking days in ex-Yugoslavia and also of Tharik Hussain's Minarets and Mountains: a Journey into Muslim Europe .

She goes through Lebanon, Jordan, into Egypt,then Sudan — a country I know little about. Coincidentally, a documentary was shown on TV (Arte) just after I'd read about the pyramids there. It's a 2019 British film by David Starkey, the French title is Le Royaume perdu des pharaons noirs.

Via Oman, she arrives in Iran and finally in Tehran where she spends a month. When she has to, she stays in guesthouses, but much of the time she finds local hosts through couchsurfing.

I found it a lively and interesting read. A little worrying at times as she could endanger her hosts through tweets or things she says.

[Tam]

Gpfr wrote: " I've finished Rebecca Lowe's [book:The Slow Road to Tehran: A Revelatory Bike Ride through Eu..."

I wonder how it compares to Dervla Murphy's trip to India from Ireland, on a bicycle in the 60's 'Full Tilt', (published 1965). Do you know it? Though she took a more northerly route. She also took a handgun with her. I can remember her account of staying the night in lowly tavern in Azerbaijan, I think, she said that she thought that a very drunk, and enormous chap had taken a bit of fancy to her, (I think she was around 35 or so, at the time, so not very young and naive!) but it was hard to tell as he was so drunk. Anyway in her room, in the middle of the night, the chap walked right through the flimsy wall of her room, he didn't even bother to try the conventional entry, by door! Anyway she reached for her trusty handgun, and pointed it at his head. Luckily he had enough nous still about him to get the message that his unorthodox advance was not at all welcome...

Dervla was a tough woman, who could be quite scathing in her assessments of people, I doubt she would do well in todays era of 'not giving offence' to others...

I'm sure that the risk of posting up opinions of the people that a traveller has met, on social media, in a country like Iran would certainly pose risks to quite a few people. I really hope that she was aware of this, and at least disguised the names, and places, of the people that she was quoting...

[Tam]

I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT and have been told that the lump on my neck, which I have named Herbert, (I'm working my way through the Bert's it seems. I have a life-sized sculpture of a fish eagle in the garden called Albert!... https://i.postimg.cc/Y2RGZdBv/IMG-110... ). Anyway Herbert is not showing signs of cancer and my consultant will discuss Herbert with me at our meeting on the 26th Feb... So great news about the lack of cancer... now to work out what exactly it is? It has been such a long haul, finding out. Herbert arose in September 2023. Two biopsies (one an even bigger one!) later and I finally have a much delayed result near the end of February. Six months!...

Not much is known about St Herbert, https://i.postimg.cc/XqLsydPs/downloa... except that he was best mates with St Cuthbert of Lindisfarne, https://i.postimg.cc/Jn6yDhqb/downloa... and that he was a hermit/anchorite on an island in Derwent water who did an annual pilgrimage to Lindisfarne to see his best friend. When Cuthbert became ill they both made a pact with each other to die on the same day, as they couldn't bear to be alone in the world without each other. Which apparently succeeded, via natural causes... The world does often seem to move in mysterious ways... It's a sweet story perhaps, but more one of man's love, and respect, of each other, so in that sense I will treasure it... They do both look a bit on the sad side to me though...

Still its nice to find a link to Lindisfarne, one of my favourite places, and one that I have written about in my 'Book of Hours'.
Wishing you all well...

[AB76]

Tam wrote: "Gpfr wrote: " I've finished Rebecca Lowe's [book:The Slow Road to Tehran: A Revelatory Bike Ri..."

i read her book about travelling through Northern Ireland a few years ago, it was very interesting, set just as the troubles were intensifying in the late 1970s

[scarletnoir]

Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT and have been told that the lump on my neck, which I have named Herbert, is not showing signs of cancer .."

Good to know - look after yourself!

[AB76]

I have to say, Victor Klemperer gets me thinking every time i read his works and i still havent read his most scholarly work, written about the Nazi use of language and how it changed Germany

I love his approach to diary writing, he seems to mix the personal fragility of a natural worrier with the academic rigour of his career as a philologist and also a commentator of the times but without the dry reserve i might expect from a German of his generation

A long time ago i read his diaries of the nightmare under the Nazi's, what he managed to convey so well was how horrific life came for so many people whose one and only love was Germany and who were pillars of the system, like Klemperer himself

About 18months ago i read The Lesser Evil 1945-1959 which follows him from the end of WW2 in bombed out Dresden into the bizarre world of East German communism and major disillusionment. I expected it to be less dark and unsettling than his Nazi era diaries but in fact his gradual shift from cautious hope in the new East German regime to utter cynicism is even sadder. He becomes an old man living in another nightmare, nothing like the Nazi one but morally bankrupt and shallow, communism at its very worst

I am currently reading Munich 1919 which mixes never before published notes from him looking back on the period of 1918-1919 while in the hell of war time Dresden and his newspaper articles from the time. Munich saw a brief left wing revolutionary government from Nov 1918 to late Spring 1919 and Klemperer was there after being recalled from his military duties in Vilnius.

His observations of speeches and ideas in that heady period are brilliant, as he categorises and muses on the way people speak, what they say and how they come accross. He is at heart the academic more interested in the origins of language and its relation to history, than "literature", general ideas and oratory, the "academic specific" is my term for it, arguing over terms and the meaning of words being more important than examples and analogies, but leaves that aside as well, to observe things as a bystander with free inquiry into life and ideas.

Having read about the Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg in Nuremberg Diary he has re-introduced me however to the curious world of German approachs to politics between 1871 to 1945. It seems that it was a general ideal that the church should be apolitical and also that maybe politics was a dirty business that was looked down upon, almost as a decoration to create the idea of a democratic state, under the Imperial era, that the common man or most Germans left politics alone and yearned for simple order. This became less benign after the Weimar experiment but seems to still be a major factor in many of the Nuremberg defendants trying to say they were "above" politics.

I look foward to returning to his first two diaries from 1933-45 and re-read them as well soon, alongside LTi-The Language of the Third Reich

[Paul]

Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT and have been told that the lump on my neck, which I have named Herbert, (I'm working my way through the Bert's it seems. I have a life-sized sculpture of..."


Ah, that's good news!

[giveusaclue]

Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT and have been told that the lump on my neck, which I have named Herbert, (I'm working my way through the Bert's it seems. I have a life-sized sculpture of..."

Brilliant news Tam, such a relief for you. Hope they can get rid of it for you without too much trauma.

[[deleted user]]

Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT..."

Great news, Tam.

[Greenfairy]

That's very good news Tam !

[Gpfr]

Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT ..."

That's so good to hear.

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "Tam wrote: "I have finally got word from Aylesbury ENT ..."

That's so good to hear."

good news tam!

[FrancesBurgundy]

Free book of the day fromForgotten Books - How to Tell a Story and other essays by Mark Twain.

[Gpfr]

AB76 wrote #117: "Tam wrote: "Gpfr wrote: " I've finished Rebecca Lowe's The Slow Road to Tehran ..."

i read her book about travelling through Northern Ireland a few years ago..."

Presumably by Dervla Murphy, not Rebecca Lowe? 😉

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote #117: "Tam wrote: "Gpfr wrote: " I've finished Rebecca Lowe's The Slow Road to Tehran ..."

i read her book about travelling through Northern Ireland a few years ago..."

Presumably by D..."
yes lol

[Tam]

Thanks for your good wishes everyone. Mentioning Dervla reminded me of the (very) occasional 'Womens Dinner' parties that I used to host, 30 or so years ago. I would banish the 2 males in the family off to visiting friends or relatives for the weekend and have a themed dinner party for my various women friends, complete with a quiz, and prizes. There were around 12 I think, (the most that could comfortably fit in our dining room really) so it was a bit like a 'womans' 'last supper'...

One of the themes was that everyone had to come in costume, and dress up as an inspirational woman, historical, current or literary, that they admire. Anyway I dressed up as Dervla, in travel-mode, complete with safari gear, and toy gun!... We had pirates, goddesses, stalwart Victorian travellers, artists, all sorts. We all went to the pub, before the dinner, and caused some consternation and quite a few photos were taken of us!.. And much explaining had to be done.

Anyway the quiz was themed on mythological women, with an emphasis on Egypt, if I remember correctly... I came across the original quiz (and answers) just the other day, whilst clearing out a cupboard! I wonder what else I have stashed away in odd places... Anyway, anyone who wants a very second-hand 'Mythological Women's' quiz, I'm still the go-to person for a ready supply!...

[Tam]

Tam wrote: "Thanks for your good wishes everyone. Mentioning Dervla reminded me of the (very) occasional 'Womens Dinner' parties that I used to host, 30 or so years ago. I would banish the 2 males in the famil..."

I should add that I am not so much of a fan of hers these days. I liked her earlier works, but she wrote a (much later) book about her travels through central Africa, and I found her views, as she expressed them, quite disturbing, about how she saw disabled people, in this case a young child, in that particular culture.

I guess she entered a 'crusty' period!... It was nothing to be proud of, at least to me.

[CCCubbon]

Whoo hoo, managed to race through a book after a series of give ups. The book was James Oswald’s latest Inspector McClean tales set in Edinburgh called αFor our Sins
An unusual story line in some ways with victims found in old churches and a twist at the end which kept me going.
Now to find something else.

[giveusaclue]

CCCubbon wrote: "Whoo hoo, managed to race through a book after a series of give ups. The book was James Oswald’s latest Inspector McClean tales set in Edinburgh called αFor our Sins
An unusual story line in some w..."

That's good news CCC. I have done a fair bit of reading, and catching up on recorded programmes, currently watching Diarmaid MacCulloch's programme on Thomas Cromwell made 11 years ago. It has helped to pass the time until I can get behind the wheel of my car again. Hopefully this will be after next Tuesday when I go back to see the surgeon. Delighted to say the recovery is going really well.

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "Stop the press....i am actually now reading a crime novel, with the constant presence of crime novels in every thread, i have now joined the majority briefly

Freeman Crofts was an bestselling Irih..."

Did you ever read the recent article on crime fiction in the NYRB?

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Stop the press....i am actually now reading a crime novel, with the constant presence of crime novels in every thread, i have now joined the majority briefly

Freeman Crofts was an bes..."

yes i did, i thought it was very interesting and reminded me why people read a lot of crime fiction and why it always sells so well

i always feel, personally, that in a chaotic, untidy world, crime novels offer a situation which will be resolved in the end, which the masses seek for comfort in their own chaotic lives.

i find a small amount of crime reading a year surfices, though there always many great neglected crime classics that drift to the surface, i particularily liked Forresters Payment Deferred last year. I have been impressed by his range, from novels about WW1 to the naval novels, to crime and historical fiction

[AB76]

My crime reading lasted a few hours, disrupted by the farce in the Commons on the Gaza vote and i have instead turned back to my original plan which was to read the recently re-issued Dino Buzzatti classic A Love Affair

Buzzatti was a very interesting character and part of the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2. His illustrations are worth checking out, i think i have included some in the photo section a few years back and he also wrote a childrens novel

[[deleted user]]

Pêcheur d’Islande – Pierre Loti (1886)

A story of the Breton fishermen who make a hard and dangerous livelihood fishing for cod off Iceland, and are gone from February to September, leaving their wives, families and sweethearts in fear and anxiety that they may never return. It was a publishing hit at the time, and I enjoyed it, though Loti apparently gets little respect today from literary critics, who accuse him of sentimentality. I thought it pulled no punches on the miseries of life in this remote community, even if the two principals are a touch idealized – he fearless in his trade and of tremendous physique, she a beauty with the air of a Parisian demoiselle, both of them honest, modest, sincere and reticent. Will they ever overcome their reticence and connect? We follow another character out East, a fisherman called to fight in the navy in Indo-China. The suspense of the ending is admirably drawn out. It reminds you that there were excellent writers in the 1880s, beyond the great names of Zola and Maupassant.

[MK]

For fans of Tony Hillerman, a literary prize - The prize goes to an unpublished author for a first mystery novel set in the Southwest, and is selected by judges chosen by the editorial staff of St. Martin’s Press, which was, for many years, Tony Hillerman’s primary publisher. After going on hiatus from 2018 to 2020, publisher MacMillan has now taken over this award, and it will return in 2021 - was created in his honor.

I've just finished listening to this rather gritty (in my book) early prize winner (2013). Still worth it. Some here might want to pick it up.

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "i always feel, personally, that in a chaotic, untidy world, crime novels offer a situation which will be resolved in the end, which the masses seek for comfort in their own chaotic lives.
"

I much prefer reading true crime accounts over whodunit type mysteries.

[Gpfr]

AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?

[Gpfr]

Tom Lake by Ann Patchett.

Because of the pandemic, three grown-up daughters are home on their parents' fruit farm. It's time to pick the cherries, a harder task than usual as the usual extra workers can't be taken on. The daughters want the story of their mother's relationship with a boy who became a famous film star. Young love, married love, family love ...

I haven't yet read a book by Ann Patchett that I didn't like and this is no exception. Some people have been disappointed and I read somewhere a comment that it lacks "spice" compared with others of her books. While I see, I think, what is meant by that, it's not a problem for me — I really enjoyed it and was absorbed in the lives of the protagonists, past and present.

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "in a chaotic, untidy world, crime novels offer a situation which will be resolved in the end, which the masses seek for comfort in their own chaotic lives."


As you know, this member of the masses reads and enjoys a lot of crime fiction - though I rather doubt that anyone could describe my own life as "chaotic"!

[scarletnoir]

Bill wrote: "I much prefer reading true crime accounts over whodunit type mysteries."

I tend to dislike the genre, as far too often the murderer (or whatever) is foregrounded at the expense of the victims... this is distasteful to me.

Very rarely do you come across something like "The Investigation" - a Danish TV series into a notorious murder where the makers only ever name the victim. The murderer is not even shown, and nor is the murder. It can be done, but it's not easy.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9112152/...

(Some murderers are clearly driven in part by a lust for fame, and have even said so.)

[scarletnoir]

I haven't finished these books - but here is a brief update:

I have restarted François-Henri Désérable's Évariste after pausing reading in French during a very busy and stressful period. This is a brilliant piece of writing, not only giving insights on the young mathematician's life but also in its spectacularly effective method of condensing the historical context into a few pages - the 'Trois Glorieuses', for example. A work of literature rather than a standard biography.

Unusually for me, I'm reading two biographies at the same time - the other being Ross MacDonald*: A Biography by Tom Nolan. Following my recent binge reading of Macdonald's 'Lew Archer' series, I decided to find out more about Kenneth Millar's life (Macdonald's real name), having gleaned a little of his difficult childhood from an afterword. I thought it would be interesting to discover more - and it is, though Nolan is an 'everything plus the kitchen sink' author who provides far more detail than is necessary, and rather less insight than I'd like.

We do learn that Millar lived in some 50 different addresses before he was 18; that his father was mainly absent, and his mother too ill and/or weak to look after her child properly, so he was passed around many relatives and some other people during this period. Not surprisingly, this led to juvenile delinquency despite which he continued to score very highly at school - a rare achievement for someone with those disadvantages. He read widely and eventually attended university; his PhD thesis was on Coleridge.

Having decided to become a writer, he initially wrote in the crime genre as he saw it as a more likely source of income than the more literary novels he hoped to write later, as he had a family to support.
Money remained tight for many years, and he also came to see that he could include many of his more ambitious ideas into the genre, so he continued along that path. (His books contain many literary allusions and some quotes - only a few pages in to his first published novel, Salammbô gets a mention.) He also at times taught or assisted students and fellow writers; all are full of praise for Millar's knowledge of and ability to analyse and explain literary works.

More on that when I finish - it's a very long book - a bit of blue pencil would have helped! It's a pity that Millar's biography was written by someone whose prose is pedestrian, as he was very stylish himself.

*MacDonald or Macdonald? Early on, Millar published as John MacDonald - the spelling given on the biography, rather surprisingly. He was contacted by another already published author of the same name, and so changed his version to John R Macdonald (R for Ross - a family name) and eventually settled on Ross Macdonald, quite simply.

Edited at 16.08 local time - I left out a few words, making nonsense of the paragraph starting 'Unusually...'

[giveusaclue]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "in a chaotic, untidy world, crime novels offer a situation which will be resolved in the end, which the masses seek for comfort in their own chaotic lives."


As you know, this member ..."

Sounded a bit chaotic around the time of the water leaks!!

[Gpfr]

I thought people might like this extract from Slightly Foxed, beginning "banishment, destruction, murder and deportation are, regrettably, an integral part of good housekeeping" + a photo of a reading corner.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3peNz6Mh...

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "in a chaotic, untidy world, crime novels offer a situation which will be resolved in the end, which the masses seek for comfort in their own chaotic lives."


As you know, this member ..."

i wasnt referring to the select few here, dont worry, the breadth of reading and discussion is far above the masses!

[giveusaclue]

AB76 wrote:

i wasnt referring to the select few here, dont worry, the breadth of reading and discussion is far above the masses!

When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!

[MK]

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote:

i wasnt referring to the select few here, dont worry, the breadth of reading and discussion is far above the masses!

When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Way to go, Clue!

[scarletnoir]

giveusaclue wrote: "Sounded a bit chaotic around the time of the water leaks!!."

Ah, true enough - I thought 'chaotic' referred to matters under one's own control, though!

[giveusaclue]

scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Sounded a bit chaotic around the time of the water leaks!!."

Ah, true enough - I thought 'chaotic' referred to matters under one's own control, though!"

mmmm........