Composite Top 100 SF Books

[Stephen]

Of the 75-book Esquire list I’ve read most of the the pre-2000 books, but fewer than half of the 2000-and-later ones.

Btw Re: Colonised Planet 5, Shikasta is misdated; it was published in 1979, not 2010. I had a copy in the 1980s.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Allan wrote: "Consider some obvious 2000+ omissions:
."

I guess a lot of the omissions you've mentioned are fantasy, while the list tries to stick to SF, even with borderline choices like The Fifth Season. At the same time, 1975 Locus SF list had Lord of the Rings

[Stephen]

Allan wrote: "Consider some obvious 2000+ omissions:
A Deepness in the Sky
Game of Thrones books 2 & 3
American Gods
Perdido Street Station
The Road
The Curse of Chalion/Paladin of Souls
Jonathan Strange & Mr No..."

I agree about The Road. However it wasn’t even a Hugo finalist. As a 2006 novel it was eligible the same year as Rainbows End.

[Allan]

Stephen wrote: "I agree about The Road. However it wasn’t even a Hugo finalist. As a 2006 novel it was eligible the same year as Rainbows End...."

Yes, it's odd. The Road won a Pulitzer Prize & numerous other awards, but wasn't nominated for any of the SF awards. It's on every best-of list though.

[Cinnabelle listens]

Post apocalyptic plots aren't often considered. Are they?

[Stephen]

My guess would be that it wasn’t a matter of the plot, but that it wasn’t considered a genre book because McCarthy was a well known “literary” author. But I wasn’t paying attention at the time so that’s just a guess.

[Kalin]

They are, but I think what makes it different is that it comes from an otherwise literary (the genre) writer. SF fandom communities don't tend to nominate works that come from outside the SF genre publishing ecosystem. The Esquire list is coming from a publication that itself is not part of the genre ecosystem, so it's not terribly surprising they include a lot more of the SF/literary blend books.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Cinnabelle wrote: "Post apocalyptic plots aren't often considered. Are they?"

Actually among greatly reduced SF works from the 1950s they kept post-apoc A Canticle for Leibowitz, in the 1960s almost apocalyptic Stand on Zanzibar (both were Hugo nominees as well).

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

btw, I checked all nominees, not only top-6, but runners up. in 2007, Hugo was awarded in Japan, they supplied much more detailed list than usual - https://www.thehugoawards.org/content...
and the Road is there, even if not very high

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Allan wrote: "...But you see authors like RAH, Card, Pohl, all of whom have had criticism for being less inclusive, removed."

So, basically it's the Cancel Culture Top Sci-Fi list.

[Allan]

I’m not sure it’s quite that distinct, but there’s clearly an effort to get more modern books in. I’ll stick to my list, but I read through the descriptions on most of them & some sound pretty interesting.

[Kalin]

I'm home and finally had time to look at the list more closely.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with cancel culture. Heinlein is on the list. Pohl's books are not popular with contemporary readers.

Like Allan said, it's more about recency bias. The list has a 2024 release on it for chrissakes, and multiple 2023 releases. That is absolutely not enough time for a book to land, percolate, and become part of the ecosystem.

Also, the SF in Translation group read 13 - The Employees - Olga Ravn - 2022, and it was... not good. It was basically "literary fiction for people who don't like SF but we'll call it that and feel like adventurous readers for picking it up." I do not expect it to be particularly well-known in a decade. I also object to Project Hail Mary being on the list, even though I liked it, it's just... not "best of all time" material.

Also, the list picks weird books to be best-of for an author: Kindred? Nope. The City & The City? Nope. Redshirts? Nope.

New releases from the list I *do* believe belong there, that they will remain genre classics for a long, long time: Exhalation, Children of Time, The Fifth Season.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kalin wrote: "
Yeah, it has nothing to do with cancel culture. Heinlein is on the list. Pohl's books are not popular with contemporary readers."

I cannot recall anyone on this thread calling it 'cancel culture'. I guess #1 problem with the list is 'one author one book'. Because say RAH had (let's stick to Hugo works only) 1st genre-forming mil-SF Starship Troopers, its opposite, pacifist hippie before hippies Stranger in a Strange Land and finally libertarian classics The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, which is included in the list. I understand that like Pohl, his books are not popular with contemporary readers and yes a lot of his stuff hasn't aged well, and as I noted above, it is fine, he had his days of glory, roll over Beethoven. As I also said, in the 50s, not RAH but other previously listed books are a greater loss

[Kalin]

RJ Slayer of Trolls called it that two posts above mine

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kalin wrote: "RJ Slayer of Trolls called it that two posts above mine"

You're right, I missed that, sorry, GR showed me the last post (yours) and I haven't scrolled up, my bad. I agree it is not a cancel culture. Moreover, I like that in older (pre-2010) the added Strugatskys and Lem, who were sadly absent in Locus lists

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I was just being a little bit flippant with the "cancel culture" remark. Trolling (har!) you might say. I didn't mean it to sound like a "you kids get off my lawn" remark. I guess I have to watch that stuff more carefully now that I'm getting older.

But as for the recency bias, I think that's mathematically observable. One possible reason for it is that magazines like Esquire often take money from companies to write articles in favor of their products. For example, a little blurb about XYZ skin cream and how awesome it is. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it's possible that publishers would want their books mentioned in an all-time greatest list and might be willing to pay for it.

[Allan]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I was just being a little bit flippant with the "cancel culture" remark. Trolling (har!) you might say. I didn't mean it to sound like a "you kids get off my lawn" remark. I guess I have to watch t..."

I understood, wasn't being snide. I agree with what you said - the recent books don't have the benefit of time to qualify them as best of all-time, and few of them won awards, at least the ones we tend to watch. Still, some of them sounded worth a read, not that I always trust the blurbs.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I guess I have to watch that stuff more carefully now that I'm getting older."

Don't worry, this happens with the best of us (under us I mean me). I think that while paid promotion is possible, I think in this case - when a general, not even a literary magazine posts a list, it is primary because readers love lists, be it best SF or best flavors of ice cream

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Allan wrote: " the recent books don't have the benefit of time to qualify them as best of all-time"

When I compared with Locus best of lists, in 1987 they had only one novel in the 1980s - Downbelow Station... no Neuromancer or Ender’s Game. So back then at least Locus readers, who nominated were more careful

[Lars]

Amazing list - for old timers like me - i only miss to read 18 (whereof one "hunger games" is on a not-to-read-list)

Many of the remaining , like "The Dispossessed", "Stand on Zanzibar" and "Grass" are kind reminders of books i just haven't got to yet.
Whereas other like "Earth Abides" and "Mission of gravity" are totally new to me, so i will have to take a look.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Lars wrote: "Amazing list - for old timers like me - i only miss to read 18 (whereof one "hunger games" is on a not-to-read-list) "

I guess you're talking about the initial list of this topic, not the Esquire one? I too have notably more of older stuff read

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Lars wrote: "Whereas other like "Earth Abides" and "Mission of gravity" are totally new to me, so i will have to take a look."

Did you see in another thread where the book "Heavy Planet," which has Mission of Gravity in it (among others), is on sale in the US for $1.99? https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Planet-C...

[Bonnie]

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment...

Here is link to the Esquire top 75 list.

How many people who worked on this list actually read The Employees: A Workplace Novel of the 22nd Century?!
#13?!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Bonnie wrote: "How many people who worked on this list actually read The Employees: A Workplace Novel of the 22nd Century?!
#13?!"

LoL :)

[Lars]

Now i had time to look at the esquire list. (i have read 49) And even though it's an interesting list it's hard to see which criteria has been used to collect it, it seems rather random.
On the positive side, it gave me a few inspirations, Ammonite, Zone One and

A few observations (as others has made as well):

Having 50% books after 2000 and 36 % from the last 10 years in a all time list, seems strange. (Personally i have read 31 of the 35 pre 2000 books, just to confirm my advanced age)

The one book chosen from the popular writers are not always the obvious choice, (Excession, The City and the City)

There seem to be a bias towards inclusion and diversity (Rivers Solomon and Nnedi Okorafor) which is probably to be expected in a 2024 list

[Allan]

Lars wrote: "Having 50% books after 2000 and 36 % from the last 10 years in a all time list, seems strange...."

To say the least. In my mind, you need the benefit of time to get perspective on whether a book is an all-time best. So that sort of list SHOULD be heavy on older books. Newer books would be clear standouts like The Fifth Season, The Three-Body Problem & Ancillary Justice, not books released within the last few years that weren't even candidates for SF&F awards.

If you're going to choose key modern writers, choose their best! Mieville: Embassytown or Perdido Street Station, Okorafor: Who Fears Death. For Banks, I've heard Excession is very good, and in fact, that's where I am in reading The Culture series, just searching for a copy of it. But generally people choose Player of Games or Use of Weapons as his best. The Algebraist was also quite good.

As you said, the Esquire list did yield some ideas on future reading, whether it's older or newer.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

While reading file770, met another semi-list (for it is several small lists) the “Science-Fiction Books Scientific American’s Staff Love” from Scientific American. I like most selected books https://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...

[Allan]

Thanks. I keep a bunch of smaller unsorted lists like this in my spreadsheet.

[Deedee]

I've read 40 of the list; however, half that number was read 25+ years ago (and may be on my re-read list). I read 11 of the first 12 (missing only Neuromancer). I read Stranger in a Strange Land when it first came out and didn't care for it. Ringworld was OK. The other 9 of the top 12 were excellent! I particularly like Ursula K. Le Guin's storytelling.

[Allan]

Deedee wrote: "I've read 40 of the list; however, half that number was read 25+ years ago (and may be on my re-read list). I read 11 of the first 12 (missing only Neuromancer). I read [book:Strange..."

LeGuin is one of my favorite authors. I would read anything by her & nothing I've read of hers has been short of amazing. Well, maybe her first three Hainish books, but those were her first and they weren't bad. Early in this group's history, I read the entire Earthsea series, novellas & short stories all; it was fantastic. I used to give away copies of The Left Hand of Darkness to friends.

[David]

Love this list 72 of them for me. I thought Hyperion was low at 13 but then I see all the great books below it. Wow great work! I was sad to see that Station Eleven didn't make the cut. Was ticked to see Earth Abides as it was my first Adult Sci Fi. My Father recommended it. I had read all the Heinlein youth novels and Dad hooked me up.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I finally looked at Allan's first list in this discussion. I dumped it into a spreadsheet, and I only had to correct one line when I did "Text to Columns. Thanks Allan for your regularity in data entry.

It turns out I have read 74 0f 100 of that list. I'm pretty proud of myself, actually. Though some were years ago.

I'm assigning myself Snow Crash to read in the next few months. Then I will have read 75. Yay!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I've read Snow Crash, but I may join you for the re-read

[Allan]

I haven't put much time into completing this list recently, but then I don't have many left:
The Time Traveler's Wife
Dhalgren
The Fifth Head of Cerberus
Last and First Men
We
Cities in Flight
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Helliconia Spring

Checked off Grass and The Fall of Hyperion last year.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Allan wrote: "I haven't put much time into this list, but then I don't have many left:."

I've read 3 from this list

[Stephen]

I’ve read 82 of the books in Allan’s list at the top of this thread, and all except The Time Traveler’s Wife and Helliconia Spring in his list from a few hours ago. Some great books there. I’m a bit curious about the Time Traveler’s Wife, it seems to be one of those very popular books by a writer who is generally considered non-genre, using sf tropes.

edited to add: Over 1.8 million Goodreads ratings. Some of the reviews make it sound like a book I won’t bother to read.

[Allan]

Stephen wrote: "I’m a bit curious about the Time Traveler’s Wife, it seems to be one of those very popular books by a writer who is generally considered non-genre, using sf tropes.

edited to add: Over 1.8 million Goodreads ratings. Some of the reviews make it sound like a book I won’t bother to read...."

It was made into a popular movie with Rachel McAdams, probably why so many read it. But I agree, it seems to be one of those romance-between-two-times movies that I wouldn't normally read, where the only SF element is time travel. However, it does appear to be a good one. And it is on the list, and I am a completionist, if that wasn't obvious already.