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Zuleika Dobson
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Zuleika Dobson - Background and Resoruces
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Does anyone know what a forfeit box is? I've tried figuring it out but can find nothing.
Maybe for the old classic game forfeit?
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Lynnm wrote: "I never made it to Oxford, but I loved Cambridge last time I was in England. I think every college should look like Cambridge (and I'm sure Oxford as well)."The thing I liked about Cambridge was that it had, back when I visited, a more open feel. The backs of the college on the River Cam brought the countryside almost into the city. Whereas Oxford seemed to me more a city, more packed together. It had a quite different feel, much less relaxed. I suppose neither one is all that relaxed to the students, but the environments seemed that way.
The Thames, known to students as Isis, flows through the Oxford college grounds in the same way.Cambridge is on the edge of the Fens so is more rural though more built up than in your day.
Deborah wrote: "From a quick search, it appears that a person would have to pay a fine (a forfeit) for a wrong doing. The fine was placed in a forfeit box. Does that fit with the context of the reference?"Thanks Deborah! During the meeting of the Junta, one of the described items on the dessert table was a forfeit box. I am not quite sure what that is. I tried doing a search but came up with nothing that made sense.
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I hadn't finished those chapters when I made my reply, but it seems to fit the context.
Re Zuleika's makeup and toiletries, Beerbohm wrote an essay in Beardsley's first infamous Yellow Book about women's makeup, hairdos etc called In Defence of Cosmetics, also known as The Pervasion of Rouge. This extract from a history of Beauty from Victorian times to the present day makes mention of it and of his scathing views about 'new' women', like the Suffragettes, who were 'the horrific pioneers of womanhood who gad hither and thither' whom he predicted would eventually be seduced by cosmetics and return to what he saw as normality.https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U...
This isn't directly related to the book but I was looking up the symbolism of the color pink because of how frequently Zuleika's pink pearl is mentioned and happened upon this fascinating article about the history of the use of the color pink.www.colormatters.com/pink
I am absolutely fed up with the colour pink dominating women's and girl's clothing and every other object manufacturers can link to females. It promotes an extremely sexist, stereotypical image. Pink Stinks!
MadgeUK wrote: "I am absolutely fed up with the colour pink dominating women's and girl's clothing and every other object manufacturers can link to females. It promotes an extremely sexist, stereotypical image. Pi..."Heh yes, but one of things I found intersting about the article is the fact that pink used to be associated with boys and blue with girls.
I am not saying that stereotype is any better but it is an intersting and differnt way of looking at things.
MadgeUK wrote: "I am absolutely fed up with the colour pink dominating women's and girl's clothing and every other object manufacturers can link to females. It promotes an extremely sexist, stereotypical image. Pi..."But earlier in the last century your intellectual ancestors might have been railing equally against equating subdued blue with girls and saving the more energetic pink for boys.
Though it's not clear to me whether there is something about pink itself that you find sexist and stereotypical, or whether you would feel the same way about, say, chartreuse if it were used in the same way pink is today (as might well be the case in fifty years!)
While we're on pink, I have to tell a story on myself. When my son was about 13, he went to a sleep-away baseball camp. When we went to pick him up, I was wearing a nice light rose golf shirt that my wife had given me. As the coaches were giving the awards out on the field, I walked from the car (which we had to park some distance away) over to the field to welcome him with a hug after his week away (and yes, we were frequent huggers, I still am). As they broke up he started walking toward me, then suddenly turned and, pointedly ignoring me, started walking toward the parking area. I went to catch up to him, but as I got near him he turned to me, gave me the look that only thirteen year old boys can give a parent who is totally embarrassing them, said in the most disgusted voice you can possibly imagine "Dad, you're wearing PINK," and refused to come anywhere near me as long as we were within view of his fellow campers.
That story shows how sexist the colour has become. Pink is also a colour associated with homosexuals and your son may have been reacting to that, which is equally deplorable.I would have hated blue as much for the same reason, if it was being used to stereotype a gender. It is the stereotyping I object to, not the colour.
http://www.pinkstinks.org.uk/about-us...
My four children, 2 boys and 2 girls, were born in the 60s when unisex was fashionable so many of their clothes were interhangeable, which was useful and economical. Unfortunately, manufacturers of the 70s discovered that promoting pink for girls and blue (or khaki camoflage, even worse!) for boys made them twice as much money and parents have been falling for it ever since. There is even a fashion for mothers to dress in pink to 'match' their little girls. And even tools are made in pink!! Mary Wolstonecraft must be turning in her grave at this ultra feminisation of women.
PS: I like pink and it can be very flattering on an elderly woman but nowadays I won't wear it on principle, nor will my daughters or granddaughters.
While part of my objections to the color pink stem from the stereotypical associations it has to girls and femininity I also just genuinely dislike the color. I don't find it asteticately appealing and I don't think I would like it even if it wasn't stereotyped.
MadgeUK wrote: "A Korean artist captured this obsession several years ago:http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/201..."
Fascinating, Marge. thank you.
MadgeUK wrote: "That story shows how sexist the colour has become. Pink is also a colour associated with homosexuals and your son may have been reacting to that, which is equally deplorable."This was long before pink was associated with homosexuality, especially in a 13 year old's mind. No, it was all just that pink was a sissy color.
MadgeUK wrote: "PS: I like pink and it can be very flattering on an elderly woman but nowadays I won't wear it on principle, nor will my daughters or granddaughters. "That's a shame, that you let your color preferences be limited by the ignorance of other people.
I have a couple of pink patterned shirts in my wardrobe (I like patterned colors, almost never wear white or single color shirts unless I'm going to a wedding or funeral), also a couple of blue pattern shirts, some yellow and blue, some green, even a purple. If people want to make something of it, fine. That's their problem, not mine.
No, it was all just that pink was a sissy color.Cissy means effeminate and is a word once used to describe homosexuals. Your son was conforming to the prejudices of his day, not unusual in a 13 year old.
I don't wear pink on principle. I wouldn't wear fur either or a swastika for that matter. There are quite a few things I don't do on principle.
I like the sound of your patterned shirts, very cheery:)
MadgeUK wrote: "Cissy means effeminate and is a word once used to describe homosexuals. Your son was conforming to the prejudices of his day, not unusual in a 13 year old."If you knew my son you would have more validation to make such a comment, but as it is you are going on 100% stereotyping of what you think a 13 year old American boy thinks or believes.
For one who is so vehemently opposed to stereotyping women, maybe you shouldn't be quite to eager to stereotype 13 year old boys.
!! I missed out the word probably (conforming). My sons would probably have had the same reaction. There was a lot of prejudice about on both sides of the Pond when they were growing up.
MadgeUK wrote: "!! I missed out the word probably (conforming). My sons would probably have had the same reaction. There was a lot of prejudice about on both sides of the Pond when they were growing up."Saying probably doesn't make it any less stereotyping. (Or if you think it does, I'll make sure to put that in every time I might want to say something about women and you won't be able to accuse me of stereotyping!)
I think you're better off just not speculating about what motivations my son, whom you don't know at all, might have had for saying something.
That your own sons would have thought a certain way doesn't mean mine would have. I think it's very likely that we raised our children very differently.
Enough on this topic.
I learned the other day that pink has been associated with homosexuality much longer than I thought. The pink triangle, nowadays used as a gay pride and gay rights symbol, was originally used, pointed downward , on a Nazi concentration camp badge to denote homosexual men:(This is an amusing article about reactions to the wearing of pink by men:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-co...
Despite the Duke of Dorset's effeminacy and his supposed likeness to Oscar Wilde, the only references to pink in ZD are to the black and pink pearl earrings which are mentioned 20 times! This may be significant as there was a language of pearls in Victorian times, just as there was a language of flowers. Pink pearls are associated with love, fame, and good fortune. The black pearl has a long ancient association with royalty. It is known as the Queen of Pearls and signifies wisdom and hope. There are numerous other meanings and we can only speculate if Beerbohm had any of them in mind.
Pearls were also much used in Aesthetic Movement jewellery and the dog collar style pearl necklaces and ropes of pearls worn by the then Princess of Wales were much emulated in society. Gentlemen's waistcoats frequently had pearl buttons and elaborate embroidery using seed pearls and other gems.In his book The Philosophy of Dress Oscar Wilde wrote that 'the imagination shall concentrate on the waistcoat which will show whether a man can admire poetry or not'. So the Duke of Dorset writing poetry and putting Zuleika's pearl earrings into his waistcoat buttonholes is possibly another reference to Wilde.
(Ancient Greek legend thought that pearls were the tears of the gods. They also believed that wearing pearls would prevent women from crying on their wedding day, which is why they have been traditionally sewn into wedding dresses.)
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MadgeUK wrote: "(Ancient Greek legend thought that pearls were the tears of the gods. They also believed that wearing pearls would prevent women from crying on their wedding day, which is why they have been traditionally sewn into wedding dresses.)..."Wonderful background, thank you. I do a lot of beading as well as gardening, and have always been interested in the meaningful associations made with both flowers and gemstones. Beerbohm mentions the pearls so many times, with their colors, I have to assume we are supposed to attach some kind of meaning to them.
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Being blonde and fair skinned, my mother constantly put me in pink. So much so that for years I wouldn't wear it or any shade like it, I.e. Rose. I will wear it now, but not often. I don't associate stereotypes with it. To me it's just a color.
For many of the men I know, they steer clear from pink due to stereotypes associated with homosexuality. Some are so conservative that they avoid most colors other than white, blue, or gray. I did have one male friend who embraced all colors. It was wonderful to see different colors on him.
My late husband was black and pink suited him so he wore it but didn't get many comments because I think people expected Caribbean people to wear brighter colours. I remember when we had our first influx of people from the Caribbean that men's clothes became more colourful, as did fruit stalls and the outsides of their houses. A welcome change from the drab greys and browns and perpetual white shirts of Englishmen (which my hubby soon adopted, along with tweed jackets and blazers:(). And I loved sampling and being told the names of all the new exotic fruits too. I guess I will never see a foot high Avocado pear from Trinidad again:(
I first proposed reading this book about 5 years ago. Its time has come.
My granddaughter tells me Chelsea Buns are all the rage in London at present. Just the thing to eat with your cup of Earl Grey tea whilst reading Austen:http://gu.com/p/47h54
However, at this time of year Hot Cross Buns, which are associated with Banbury Cross near Oxford, are very popular (I've just toasted one for breakfast):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/hot...
And of course the Duke would have eaten Eton Mess which is traditionally served at Eton College's annual cricket game against the pupils of Harrow School.
http://www.essentially-england.com/et...
MadgeUK wrote: "My granddaughter tells me Chelsea Buns are all the rage in London at present. Just the thing to eat with your cup of Earl Grey tea whilst reading Austen:http://gu.com/p/47h54
However, at this ti..."
What is "mixed spice"?
It varies a bit but I use (also known as pudding spice):1 teaspoon allspice
1″ (2.5 cm) piece cinnamon stick
1 teaspoon cloves
1 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1 teaspoon ground ginger
Some folks add a teaspoon of cardamon.
MadgeUK wrote: "It varies a bit but I use (also known as pudding spice):1 teaspoon allspice
1″ (2.5 cm) piece cinnamon stick
1 teaspoon cloves
1 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1 teaspoon ground ginger
Some folks add a ..."
Ah, sounds a lot like pumpkin pie spice (for Thanksgiving :)
LOL Sorry was trying to delete a blank and system made me enter something.
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Cr*p. Now Madge has made me look like a right dumbarse.
Sorry Pip, not intended:( I sometimes run into difficulties with my tablet or I post when I am tired. Also if it has been running for a long time, it is very slow at inputting and misses letters.
I know it wasn't intended :-))) And for anyone who has no idea of what's going on, my comment # 87 contains a secret coded message. The first person to decipher it gets an all expenses paid trip to San Sebastián.
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Deborah wrote: "I think it says Deb should pay for my airfare so I can be her photographer. Did I Win?"Touché, Belle Amie!! Close, but no cigar.
My post #13 has a Wikipedia link to the Sheldonian which was built by Sir Christopher Wren and has a very interesting history. Those heads on columns are very spooky at night!http://www.headington.org.uk/oxon/bro...
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http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/
Yes, tourists are a problem.