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The Heaven & Earth Grocery Store
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Buddy Read for The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store
I just picked this up, and started yesterday. Breezed through the first 3 chapters, totally engrossed, a great start!!
Joi, I am in the second half of my last book before I start it it! Thank you for leading the way!
Looks like I will have to buy the book. My library hold will not come through in time.
Too bad I don’t have time to read it and send it to you because I had to buy it as well.
WOOHOO! Thanks for starting the thread, Amy!
I am so looking forward to this one.
I am about 1/3 thru it and its totally engrossing.
I'm also looking forward to joining this discussion in a week. By the way, I've just purchased a Kindle edition of this novel on Amazon for just 1.04$ (https://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Earth-G...). So if someone haven't got it yet, it's a good deal)
I’m starting this today!!!
Finished it this evening. 5 stars!
I have this on audio and plan to get to it some time this month.
I'll start the discussion, I guess. First, Amy, I look forward to hearing some of your comments on the Jewish culture and comments made in the book as well as some explanation of some of the Jewish terms. I'm listening to the audio book so knowing how to spell the words is difficult.
Second, how do yall fell about the technique of instead of a linear story, but instead of introducing a new character by telling their whole back story up until the "present" time of the story? I am on chapter 10. A minor character is receiving more focus. Is more important to the story, but the chapter goes back to when he was in high school and works its way to present. I am enjoying the story, but for me it messes with the flow of the story. Just not my favorite way of storytelling.
I am looking forward to yalls thoughts and comments on the book.
I am just 10% in and I already have some wonderings and general impressions. Having just read (listened) to Deacon King Kong this past year (five stars) I can see how this writing style is similar. And I did feel disjointed in the beginning with DKK, its harder with this style until you really get into it, to see how it all comes together. But I stuck with it and by the last third, I had really loved it. This is my fourth McBride book having loved the Color of Water and Sing.... the one about the underground railroad. I have been thinking about how well this author does with the varying cultures, Irish, African American, now Jewish, and I almost wish I was listening in Audio instead. I often wonder about authors who aren't Jewish nailing the cultural pieces, something I am always astounded when authors get right. Even Wally Lamb nailing a female in She's Come Undone, and that book is like 40 years old. I remember being struck by that when I was 15. And Angela Hunt nailing the Jewish thinking and pieces that most Jews don't even know and she is a Christian Fiction author. I am only ten percent in, and already I am thinking this guy has an unusual talent. I really thought he had nailed the Irish and African American dialect and consciousness. So far I have zero complaints and I am impressed.
More thoughts. Given the kind of Yiddish and cultural opening here, and let me tell you, the blacks and Jews always enjoyed a special relationship, probably more then than now, I am totally not surprised about the connection through the theater, nor the grocery store, which I think was a "thing". The Jews and Blacks collaborated on entertainment from the beginning, and my father was in entertainment management in NYC before that was a thing. There was a lot of communal burgeoning during that time, and I think the same went for community things like stores and businesses.
I wondered which terms or allusions you might have been wondering about, Jason? Like the opening pages speaks of the Mezuzzah, which is something that houses a prayer scroll on the doorways of many Jewish people's homes, but in our home and many homes, we have them on every doorway. Religious people touch them and bring their fingers to their lips when they cross through every door of their home. I never thought about it, but yes, these mezuzzahs are also Jewelry. I didn't think about it because its really something more often men wear. My husband wears one, that his brother gave him as a gift when he was a teenager, and as an adult, we had to buy him a longer silver chain. These don't have scrolls in them, prayers in them, and they are prayers blessing the home and the people in it. But it is a "hearkening" to the concept of protection. But this led me to my main question.... At only ten percent in.
Many people are loving this book and giving it 5 stars. Now I know James McBride, so I know it will be good, and worthy of that. But at only ten percent in, my question is this. Why are people outside of the Jews, loving this one so much? I am always shocked when a book about Jews, and it may end up being so much more than that I am sure, but when it appeals so widely, I am always curious about why.... Lately I have been watching this woman Miriam on Facebook, who is an Orthodox Jew and she lets people look into her life and explains a lot of things. I find her very calming. I know just about all of the stuff, but I love that she's out there doing it. And I love that she is pro LGBTQ+ and is all about people not judging one another and doing what is right and best for them, and following their own faith. She's really all about love, and sharing of herself is an act of love. They are a beautiful family, and I love seeing the joy in the 6 of them, and that she is presenting Jews in such a powerful way. But like she, I am amazed at her success. People are following her all over the place, and the majority aren't Jewish. There was these two African American Women from the south, and plenty of others, and they just LOVE her, and celebrate her, and I think that's beautiful. But why does she have this following? What is it about the Jews that are so interesting to others? Why do people flock to our Shabbat and Passover tables? Our books, films, movies, plays (Brighton Beach Memoirs for example). Avalon, Fiddler, countless ones.... I guess I was just left with a wondering about that that maybe supercedes the book.... Because maybe that is not the element that made people love the book. But the question to me got raised. Are people fascinated with the Jews and why, and if so, why is there so much antisemitism in the world?
Thats a great question Amy. And maybe if we had the answer we could find some way to start eradicating the anti semitism because it is a paradox. Anyway, I'm 30% in and loving the book and very struck by McBrides ability to andspeak so well about Jewish culture at that time. I love it in large part because it's my dream for Jews and African Americans to realize their common struggles and work together, I read The Color of Water several years ago and ordered it on Amazon so that I can reread it.He is truly a gifted writer and I will read more of his work.
McBride's mother was Jewish, and he worked in a summer camp for disabled children. Here is an interview in The Forward, which is a Jewish publication. https://forward.com/culture/558395/ja...
Yes, in the color of water, he talks about being biracial, both black and white but his mother was Jewish. It reminds me of my husband‘s high school for whom half of the high school was black and half of the high school was white, which is extremely rare, but even rarer, 75 or more percent of the white people were Jewish. He went to a black Jewish high school. I do think there’s a lot of history of the black Jew collaborating, and not just in theater, and in business and community and marching and political and civics. I just feel like maybe that’s not the case anymore in the way, that Black Lives Matter has diverged from the plate of the Jews, and has started supporting The Gens in a way that doesn’t make sense given our prior history nor the facts. Most people don’t understand that Palestinian Gosens we are just anti-Hamas. And that fact gets lost everywhere. I do think there has been a shift but that has been wonderful and incredible. I’m only 10% in but I hope to read some more later tonight.
Jason wrote: "I'll start the discussion, I guess. First, Amy, I look forward to hearing some of your comments on the Jewish culture and comments made in the book as well as some explanation of some of the Jewi..."
I thought I remember hearing several terms. The one I remember off the top of my head was the writings of Moses, which I thought was the Torah, but I think they used a different word. I'm not sure. Here is a negative aspect to audiobooks. If you don't write it down, going back and referencing it is difficult. I did enjoy hearing the story of Moses with the coal and the gold and how he had a speech impediment. I've heard he possibly had a speech impediment but was not familiar with the origin of that fact. That was a fun google search and rabbit hole.
Your question is very interesting. I've been thinking about it all day.
Most people who are bigoted, see the group they are against is in-human. It's a generalization to a group that is purely emotional, not based on facts. Most times, once you put a humanity to a person is that group, the bigotry subsides. It becomes an exception. The only example I can think of is Sports. Someone says they hate football. Once they learn some players they like one team but still don't like football (Taylor Swift fans with Travis Kelce) Then you learn some rules and learn other players and you find, you only didn't like football due to your own ignorance of the players and the game.
I think the same is true with groups of people. For whatever reason you have this hatred toward a group or at the very least, indifferent, and then you are able to place a humanity to a person in that group. The YouTube personalities. You learn a bit about the religion and the group and your hatred (hopefully) or your indifference was from your own ignorance.
There are stories even of Hitler making exceptions for Eduard Bloch and providing special protection for him.
Pure evil and hateful people exist, even with humanity staring them in the face, but for the most part, it's easy to hate a faceless, emotionless, humanless group. Much easier to relate to a person with feelings and a life.
Just my thoughts.
I think this is true. That there are communities where nobody has ever really met at Jewish person. From many of us, we live in Metropolis like places but for others, it’s a rarer thing. Actually getting to know someone changes everything. If you never met somebody, you wouldn’t know or even understand certain things, or get to like them as a person. You must experience the same kind of the thing with JW. I don’t know how it is for people in this group, but I like to think that maybe their minds if they were more closed, would be more open now having met myself and Sally and Shelley and Anita and Holly. One of the neat things about this group, is that we do get to talk to people who are very different and diverse, and from various places in the world. I really appreciate that Suzy is in Australia, and that when the war in Ukraine broke out the first person we were all concerned about was Diana. Nicole was on the top of a very high mountain when something crazy was going on weatherwise that was wiping out a lot of Texas. Joanne saw the very first Pfizer trucks leaving from her home window. I kind of think that that people live in all kinds of places in the world we get to learn so much more. not to mention the different kinds of population and experiences and ethnicities that people have. It’s quite a cool thing. Not quite what you were saying, but that’s what it made me think.
It goes along with what I’m saying. The only addition I would add, is when they do get to know a person or read a novel that opens your eyes, it doesn’t fix the whole picture. That person becomes an exception. I recently had someone tell me that if I came to his door preaching he would talk to me cause he knew me and liked me. But any other JW, he would run off with a shotgun. So the book or the YouTube personalities have a following and an empathy, but it’s an exception to this truth they believe. Try thought provoking and deep question Amy.
Yes, but it makes a difference. Because of you, this one person might start to see JW differently. One person can make a difference. Its slow, but it matters. That's why with all the horror of October 7th, there are just a few people whose minds are changing. But it starts with them. There are folks who are in the alternate political universe that will never manage to change their minds ever. It didn't happen with Covid, or kids in cages, or with hate group ties, or with school shootings, or the attempted kidnapping of Gretchen Whitmer, or the attack on Paul Pelosi, nor with MTG, LG, GS, or other standout winners, or with Jan 6 or Fake Electors or 91 felonies, it will never happen. But for many people, their eyes indeed have been opened. I keep saying to myself that if we want a more integrative more loving peaceful inclusive society, we were always going to have to deal with that part of the world. So what if, just what if, that this most recent atrocity and atrocious times was the beginning of the path to an ultimate long lasting peace? It has to start somewhere. So I like to think that maybe just a few people's eyes have opened, and it matters. It's part of the road I think. On the college campus front, we have some people who educate with displays of Shabbat tables with empty seats, with the faces of the kidnapped. And then the response from the other side is a "Die-In." Yes, its astonishing that the Die-In got some likes and some people showed up. But I think, how many people noticed the difference in language and intent, and wouldn't go to something called a Die-In, no matter what they thought of the cause. I think these things get noticed. One of my patients, asked me after the session what the Black Church response has been since this began, and I told her mixed. Like we have been talking about in this thread, we used to be more closely joined. Now Black Lives Matter is intertwined with Gaza in a way that blames the Israeli's and holds them culpable for everything. But others have stood for Israel and for the Palestinians by seeing what the enemy truly is. She said, all I know is that I don't support hate no matter whose doing it. If its my people its not okay either. People know hate when they see it. They also know kindness and ethics. She would like to see the two more joined again the way they used to be. I will look forward to seeing how this concept plays out in the book.
Just checking, is anyone upset or turned off by the turn in the conversation? As this is a group thread, if this is not palatable, we can take this offline. Just a check in.
I didn't know anything about this book when I opened it (other than everyone who read it, loved it). I had no idea it featured Jewish and black communities. I never thought about the Israel-Hamas conflict while reading it. I thought more about how all the hate that permeated through the pages was at least diminished by love and respect. And how there is still so much hate today. Yes, hate has increased b/c of the Israel-Hamas war, but hate in America has been over the top for a while. But the book gave me hope, for people working together, for finding common ground and for defeating the truly evil people. The book had a similar feel to Deacon King Kong, with all these people coming together in crazy ways and bringing hope.
I'm excited to read more of it. What an inspiring impression.
My ReviewMcBride's writing is simple but beautiful, filled with warmth and adjectives. The first part of this book is slow with the style of storytelling bringing the story to a halt many times. But once you get into the third act, the story starts to progress faster, and you are able to stay connected to the events.
Its a wonderful story about community and love. Overcoming the impulse of self to help one another, especially in the face of inequality, and lack of power.
The connection between monkey pants and Dodo is beautiful and was my favorite part.
I am wrapping up a couple other books, but I hope to start soon! From the feedback, I expect to enjoy it :)
I have 40 pages left. I’m trying to kind of stay away from others reviews because I want to be able to just experience it. One thought I have is that I kind of agree with Jayson about loving the book, but not necessarily loving the format that James McBride uses, where it’s one community member at a time and it’s almost a side angle on that character until it comes back together. For that reason, Deacon King Kong took me a little while to get into as well, only that when I had it on audio so that helped. I hear the audio for this one is great. I am loving the story though and I wish I had time to finish it right now. But alas, you will surely be hearing from me later.
I think I am coming in slightly under the rave. Maybe at a 3.8? I have always felt its hard when a book gets an amazing 5 star stellar book from nearly everyone. It sets the expectations really high. And there were certainly things I liked about it. I am not inclined towards the format that McBride uses, with the narration from each character in the community building towards the story. It took me awhile to take to it with Deacon King Kong, which ended up being a 5 star and Top Ten read for me. But I listened to that in Audio, and I rather think that would have made a difference for this book too. I kept hoping to fall in love with it more as it fell together, and I think it was actually falling apart for me at the end, right when others found it magical and connective.
I was saddened and troubled by some of the more difficult events of the story. My heart broke in various chapters, and I think the residue of these traumas were not quite lifted. I know there is love and community and selflessness in the book, (and in life), but certain cruelties rather stayed with me. I almost felt too sensitive and tender for it. I did not find it an escape.
As always, McBride writes beautifully, and I am moved by his writing, even beyond the format. This is my fourth book of his and he somehow never disappoints. I am glad I read it, and I do look forward to talking about it with everyone.
Amy. There was parts in the book I’m saying out loud, “oh no. Please no”.
Agreed that is was painful. I wanted to mention that after I wrote my review, that I went to the Jewish book group and saw their discussion of it as they had done a buddy read in November for this book. I then pulled up the book with all of the reviews and I saw pretty much all of ours from PBT, Holly, Shelley, BooknBlues, Sue, Jason, and I know that Meli and Joi and Nicole R are reading it right now. I saw a bunch of other reviews from other folks I know from the general feed or other places. So it was really interesting to get a smattering of experiences. But one thing that came out on the Jewish book group thread, which I found interesting, because it was something I really had wanted to talk about, with the character and role of Malachi, which apparently means messenger in Hebrew. Honestly he and his prophetic cryptic elusive way was my absolute favorite part of the book. I rather think there been more of him, and more of his weaving through. I might’ve even liked it more. People were talking about him as a metaphor, for Elijah, as the one who comes in whenever there is trouble. I somehow wish they had made more of this. I was in from the beginning about the story of home of the greatest dancer in the world. That was my favorite part of the book and it wasn’t huge. I also was really taken by the old theater days in the renting out of the hall to the Negro population. And the frenzied, wild dancing. I really liked that.
Halfway through, have only cried once so far.I also didn't know this book featured the black and Jewish communities before going in.
Amy: Love the insight knowing that Malachi means 'messenger'. Definitely reading into that more now knowing that, and I'm sure that will effect my reading into the character as I continue.
Re: Storytelling style:
I think this is the first (only) book I've read with this style- character revealing throughout the book one at a time. I don't mind it in this context, but I don't think I'd like to see this as a pattern in fiction. I like that it feels like someone is telling you a story vs reading a book, and I assume that is a reason why it is utilized.
It's similar to Deacon King Kong by the same author. There is a central incident or a couple of them and people refer back to them multiple times. New people get introduced and tell other versions of their stories. It's not exactly compelling. The audio is good for the various accents, but at the moment it's only 3 or 3.5 stars for me.
I just finished this one, and did not like it at all. I gave it two stars but that feels generous. I have no idea how this made so many best books of 2024 lists.
Interested to hear your pros (if any) and cons. Sorry you didn’t enjoy it
I just thought it was boring. Very little actually happened and it was just a character study of various people who were only slightly connected. I honestly did not care about any of them except for Chona and she was grossly underused. I also barely tolerate sexual assault and rape in books, and abhor sexual assault and rape of children. I just do not want to read it. If I would have known that I would not have picked it up. Also, I did not think that its use was remotely critical to the plot.
I liked that it was a story of black and Jewish communities, but I also felt like that was just kind of happenstance. The communities could have been any ethnic groups and the story would have been exactly the same.
The more I write about it the more I realize I probably should have given it one star.
Nicole I think it’s interesting because I also felt I was coming in under the rave. And not that I disliked it, but that I just never love it when a book that everyone seems to be giving five stars, when I feel like I just didn’t get the hype. But interestingly enough once I posted my review, I had a lot of strangers tell me they felt the exact same way. I don’t think that you are alone, although I think that you’re feeling with far lower than mine. I also agree that I don’t like it when violence happens to women and children, and I also stay away from that. And that was also hard for me in this book. But thrilled that you found the buddy Read. Maybe you’ll have better luck next time.
I finished and gave it 3, maybe 3.5 stars. It was well written but the structure is very much like this author's Deacon King Kong, which I also found underwhelming. In both books there is a central event or series of events and the book spirals away from and back to it. But it's not a compelling narrative. At least half a star was for the excellent audio version with the different accents. But I figured out who the murder victim was so that was no surprise. I did like the part near the end which is a sort of heist story, in which members of several different communities work together to acheive the outcome. But that seemed kind of rushed when it finally happened. Other parts of the story were repeated several times or dwelt on a long time. I wouldn't choose this as a Best of the Year book.
I totally agree that the audio was excellent. And I also liked the very end “heist” part. But other than that, this was just one that did not resonate with me. And I appreciate that others found something to connect to — heaven knows I have liked books that others despise (cough, Franzen, cough) — but I may never read McBride again.
I pretty much finished and while I was so excited by the premise of the book I found myself disappointed. I loved it initially. I loved the storry of Chona and Moshe and particularly loved Chona It fell apart for me after Chana’s death. I hated the ending. I didn’t care about the heist and slogged through that part. 3.6/3.7 stars
I am making good progress on my January reading so I expect to get into it this weekend! Look forward to it, and will catch up on these messages to get some insights and perspective.
Sorry to hear that, Nicole :(But when you don't connect with an author, you just don't connect.
I just want to add that I read your earlier post Amy and I totally agree about the character of Malachi and the earlier discussion of the old teater days. There was not enough of an emphasis on that in the novel and I found that disappointing. Honestly, I didn't even read the epilogue.
I love this discussion, especially since there seems to be a split down the middle of how people felt about it. Many people didn't like the way things jumped around from character to character which made it hard to see how things fit together. I loved that! I will admit it was sometimes difficult to keep the people and their relationships to each other straight. But I enjoyed watching how the story came together and how the people all fit together.
I also had difficulty with the abuse, but it wasn't overwhelming. I think the fact that the ending was so hopeful (at least for me) made the violence and abuse more tolerable.
Although I gave this book and Deacon King Kong 5 stars, I think I enjoyed DKK more. The characters were more colorful and the story was a bit more wacky. I usually enjoy books with a healthy wacky quotient.
Amy thanks for the insights about Malachai, that was enlightening.
Update:Almost done with this one, about 25 pages to the end.
Have cried one more time during it (2 total)
After the first half-two thirds (view spoiler) it has slowed way down for me, and I'm not looking forward to picking it up as much. I'm still engrossed in Dodo and his storyline but not as much the newly introduced characters and neighborhood.
I'm guessing this will end up being a 4 star read for me.
I am at pg 70ish and I wish this book had a glossary of terms! The Jewish immigrant community is very unfamiliar to me, but I am figuring things out. I am looking up a lot of things and now I gotta find some challah bread and see what that's about! Maybe I've had it and didn't know 🤔I see there has been a lot of great discussion about the book so far in the thread, but I want to get closer to the end before I read it all.
Challah is delicious, Meli. Do you have a Jewish deli in your area? Do try some.
I'm hoping to start this at the weekend, but the mixed reviews have slightly put me off, which is why I haven't got to it yet.
I wish I could send a fresh challah to everyone who’s read this book and has been participating in the conversation. I think it’s easy to take certain things for granted when you live in a certain area and community is all around you. Living in a town that’s 65% Jewish, and a New England state that’s filled with Jews, we have to constantly remind ourselves that we live in a bubble. Being a minority here doesn’t feel much like a minority. Most of the non-in this area are fairly Jewish literate. There’s a good five or 6+ who could help out if any questions arise, or any allusions or references you may be curious about. I think I’m just sitting here on my covenant of water break, after having hit 70%, feeling very very grateful, and saying a prayer for this country, for Israel, and the world. May we know peace. We find our way to appreciate each other no matter where we come from and how we think and pray and believe and love. May we come to a place where we lead with love, encounter with kindness and curiosity.
@Holly, we don’t have a Jewish deli where I’m at, but they might have it at this bread place in town. Does challah bread have to be kosher? 🤔 If this place has challah bread I doubt it’s kosher.
I bet we have a very small or non-existent Jewish community here in northwest Indiana.
Meli wrote: "@Holly, we don’t have a Jewish deli where I’m at, but they might have it at this bread place in town. Does challah bread have to be kosher? 🤔 If this place has challah bread I doubt it’s kosher."Meli, challah does not have to be kosher. I've gotten challah at bread places in my town, as well as at the deli. It's a doughy, nice-tasting bread - not coarse like a rye bread. It can be made plain or with raisins. It's good for sandwiches, toast or served fresh, with butter.
I hope you can find it. Books have sometimes made me eager to try unfamiliar foods, myself.
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
Deacon King Kong (other topics)Deacon King Kong (other topics)
Many of us are reading it for Trim the TBR, as well as for Books With Friends, as well as for the Monthly Tag. Many of us have been wanting to get to this one for quite some time. I am pretty sure all of the Tenacious Trailblazers are reading it, and I think there are others who will be following as they will want to re-live and discuss it. The discussion begins here.
I am currently reading the Collectors Apprentice by BA. Shapiro, a historical mystery that qualifies as both a C and an S, but I believe my marching orders from our lovely commander, is that it is the S that is significant here. I have ordered HEGS from Amazon, as I believe the library is being less forthcoming than I wish, but HEGS (beginning with an H) is my very next read. Book number three will be my "Racetrack" book. I anticipate starting HEGS by next weekend. Please join me in what I think will be one of our largest and best Buddy Reads, which is a lovely way to also kick of 2024 Trim!