Reading the 20th Century discussion
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What books are you reading now? (2024)
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Ben wrote: "I think my emotions are still too raw from the election, but this is what I wrote about AE.I remember learning in school that:
The USA had the only true democracy, unlike other nations who had K..."
My own thoughts on this topic are extensive and, like Ben’s, very raw because of the election. I do think the fact that the US started as English (later British) Empire is something that America hasn’t really grappled with. (Perhaps it's being dealt with in more recent scholarship, but if so, that has not trickled into popular awareness.) Even relatively successful revolutions in early modern Europe left a great deal of social, governmental, legal, and economic structure in place. (I presume this is true in other times and places.) Despite the self-conscious efforts of late 18th century American elites such as Jefferson to think about what a social structure of true equality would look like, and how it might be brought about, they were still elites who embraced the racialized enslavement of others, and believed that even the majority of white men were incapable of understanding enough to act for their own good, so they obviously were not able to perceive how they themselves were embedded in and continuing the problem. It’s not surprising to me that a country that started as an imperial/colonial project should carry on as one. It's also not terribly surprising that that country would need to craft a narrative in which they distinguish themselves from the siblings from whom they had violently separated themselves both to justify that separation and to identify themselves as superior to what they separated from. [I’m not saying that I personally am sorry that the US became independent of Great Britain, nor on whether anyone would be better off if we had not.] Once one creates such a narrative to justify one’s existence and frame one’s identity, it becomes very hard to see oneself as anything else. I don’t think this justifies America’s bad sense of its own history, but I think it helps explain why we are blind so many of our national sins, and it also helps explain the deep emotional commitment many Americans have to this sense of who we are.
I’ve appreciated the work of Heather Cox Richardson (the preeminent American political historian who wrote the history of the Republican Party) for her work in conveying to a popular reader how this idea of American exceptionalism intersects the idea that a few oligarchs are entitled to hold all political power, and how that intersection has been promoted in culturally, even when, as in westerns (books, TV, film), the cultural narrative directly contradicts the historical reality.
As I said elsewhere, I haven’t read the Parable of the Talents. I disliked Parable of the Seed too much to want to read further. I dislike dystopia in general, but I think what bothered me most about Butler’s was her underlying assumption that all the dystopian things could be resolved if people would just follow her own version of religion. I confess that I had forgotten that the dystopia Butler’s characters are escaping is an authoritarian religious one, but I vividly remember that she replaced one authoritarian system with another, and called it good.
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That's precisely my concern, in a nutshell. It's disconcerting as Butler is an intelligent person who comes over well in the interview included in my edition of the book. And maybe she genuinely thinks that Olamina can escape the 'all power corrupts' axiom but...
The only thing I wonder is whether the parallels between the dystopian president and Olamina are deliberate as I understand there was to have been a third volume originally.
All very problematic, anyway, to my reading of the book.
Thanks Ben and G. L. all really interesting, been wondering about these things today with the speculation that Elon Musk may try to donate 100 million dollars to our right-wing Reform UK party. The leader Nigel Farage has been schmoozing Trump and his cronies for years.I had a sense of many of the things you both mentioned but mostly through watching series like the West Wing which is very much the fantasy of what America is supposed to be/should represent. When the restrictions on women's reproductive rights started up remembered Ashley, the "sympathetic" Republican proclaiming that she didn't need feminism/laws on women's rights as the Constitution would protect her! But that show very much tapped into the notion that America is basically decent/incorruptible, and that even when that looks possible the 'white hats' will sort it out.
At school I think I learnt more about the Roman Empire than the British, and history was very much focused on the past the Victorians and the Tudors, but my teachers were fairly liberal/left-of-centre so a lot of focus on poverty etc And my own reading was very much rooted in counterculture. So wasn't presented with an overarching concept of country/nation. Also possibly because we're a lot smaller; and Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland act as a corrective, plus we've never had the kind of spatial segregation that America has - so strands that are separate in American history are more intertwined in ours. The closest I've come - other than reading about the right - to that kind of narrative was in the Blair era but wasn't into cool Britannia mainly because it was very much framed as white, as critics like Mark Fisher highlighted.
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I used to be sceptical as so many people here have been bemused/amused by Trump/Musk but I just don't have that confidence any more.
Can anyone (Ben?) explain the significance of Reform not actually being a political party but a private company with Farage as a main shareholder?
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "the speculation that Elon Musk may try to donate 100 million dollars to our right-wing Reform UK party."I used to be sceptical as so many people here have been bemused/amused by T..."
Me too, apparently because Musk has companies linked to the UK - UK branch of X - he could legally donate to a UK party via those.
It's a busy time so mostly reading old favourites and shorter pieces.I reread Dorothy L. Sayers's Clouds of Witness part of her Wimsey series and a classic of Golden Age crime
Link to my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I read a short eerie Christmas story by Emily Carroll All Along The Wall
Link to review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I also read a really lovely picture book for children King Winter's Birthday by Jonathan Freedland based on a piece by Jewish refugee Ulrich Alexander Boschwitz, now known for The Passenger, who died during WW2.
It's a charming, vibrant piece with illustrations from Emily Sutton. My only complaint, as an adult reader, is there's a tantalising glimpse of Boschwitz's original text and drawings included at the end and I'd have loved to see more of these.
I can't link to a review as the book's not on Goodreads but here's an article about it along with sample illustrations.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...
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Is that the Jonathan Freedland who writes so well for the Guardian?
I've struggled rereading Wimsey - seems I have little patience for his mannerisms these days - I don't really like him again till Harriet takes him in hand with the dead body on the beach. Gaudy Night is still wonderful though.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "It's a busy time so mostly reading old favourites and shorter pieces."Is that the Jonathan Freedland who writes so well for the Guardian?
I've struggled rereading Wimsey - seems..."
Yes it is, really gorgeous book.
I love Wimsey but struggle with Christie, suppose it's just what works for different readers. I think I like the connection with Wodehouse, Wimsey and Bunter based on Jeeves and Wooster but with a dash of Sherlock Holmes added to the mix. Also read that her books were on average longer than standard Golden Age crime novels, haven't actually checked that but she does seem to weave in more complex characters/social commentary. I love Gaudy Night too but my favourite is probably The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club for the commentary on the aftermath of WW1. Although would love to know if Sayers read Mrs Dalloway, lots of resemblances between the traumatised veteran George and Septimus, and between their respective wives.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Can anyone (Ben?) explain the significance of Reform not actually being a political party but a private company with Farage as a main shareholder?..."I think the primary meaning is that he has sole control over the operation of the party: how it chooses candidates, what its positions and policies are, who speaks for it. Other parties are governed by its members and bylaws.
Although I recall reading that he has or has agreed to surrender control of the party and reconstitute it in a normal way as a not for profit company
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c...
Ben wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Can anyone (Ben?) explain the significance of Reform not actually being a political party but a private company with Farage as a main shareholder?..."I think the primary mean..."
I saw that too, think for him it's as much about status, and bigging himself up in America - where he seems to spend most of his time - as it is about politics. He tired of UKIP too. I just feel sorry for his constituents, as an MP he's a total waste of space. Loathe the man.
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That's the one with the sleepy old colonels, I think? I do think it was brave to have given Wimsey 'shell shock' and the moving relationship with Bunter - though I tend to bristle when Bunter doesn't get introduced to people and is ignored in scenes.
I particularly like the one in the ad agency - and Wimsey's campaign for whiffling, I think it is!
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "I love Gaudy Night too but my favourite is probably The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club for the commentary on the aftermath of WW1."That's the one with the sleepy old colonels,..."
Yes but I liked her exploration of the treatment of veterans. We get tin-Tommy who's had part of his stomach sealed over with metal, Wimsey still plagued by nightmares and George unable to get a job and/or any kind of support for his war-related issues. Also his wife represents the women left to pick up the pieces with no financial support. It's quite damning as a portrait of postwar English society. And I love that she highlights this by tying a key aspect of the plot to Remembrance Day.
Yes, Murder Must Advertise is quite fun, I think she must have based it on her own experiences. She apparently came up with the toucan that was a central element in the marketing of Guinness for decades.
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Thanks to you and Alwynne, I've got the Mishima ARC - now just need to find the time to read it! I'm unaccountably busy with both work and socializing at the moment.
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www.goodreads.com/review/show/7064099380
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www.goodreads.com/review/show/7071374627
Also an ARC of short stories by Curtis Sittenfeld, Show Don't Tell, very low key but wonderfully perceptive with a vein of light humour:
www.goodreads.com/review/show/7047513547
G wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Jan C wrote: "RC - don't think it appeals to this American. And, I, for one, do not generally see things in religious or "American exceptionalism" context. Matter of fact, I ne..."The Monroe Doctrine - to keep other imperialists off of our continent/hemisphere.
Alwynne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Jan C wrote: "RC - don't think it appeals to this American. And, I, for one, do not generally see things in religious or "American exceptionalism" context. Matter of fact, I ne..."Doesn't much of this group reside in Great Britain? Or do you have selective memories about your history? Canada, Ireland, India, Singapore, etc.? Not to forget the American colonies who were successful, finally, in throwing off the yoke.
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Roman Clodia wrote: "Just because we live in the UK doesn't mean we are blind to the horrors of colonialism and empire, and their aftermaths. And while the American colonies certainly did claim their independence, does..."We certainly have. One of the themes in culture and politics right now is the division between those who are willing to acknowledge this (at least regarding the more distant past; less consensus about more recent actions) and those who demand fidelity to a belief that we as a nation are sinless.
Wonderful story in the 18 Nov 2024 New Yorker by Han Kang. “Heavy Snow”https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
I've added The Vegetarian to my 2025 list.
This issue also has some excellent short essays about the election results. I particularly liked the ones by Annette Gordon-Reed, Lorrie Moore and Jenifer Egan.
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www.goodreads.com/review/show/7067860442
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Is than an extract from her newest novel in translation, We Do Not Part? That's in my Best of 2024 listing. Look forward to your thoughts on The Vegetarian which I also loved.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Is than an extract from her newest novel in translation, We Do Not Part? ..."It is! I should have mentioned that.
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My Autobiography (1964)
by
Charlie Chaplin
….for one of our group reads earlier this year.
It didn’t get the nod however I was still keen to give it a go.
I’m now about a third of the way through it and am rapt.
He describes his deprived working class South London upbringing; working in music halls; early film making and the evolution of narrative film; and a gripping account of his rise to superstardom. A fantastic rags to riches story.
Here's the blurb....
A silent comedy star whose legendary slapstick routines are recognisable to this day, Charles 'Charlie' Chaplin's My Autobiography is an incomparably vivid account of the life of one of the greatest filmmakers and comedians, with an introduction by David Robinson
As a child, Charlie Chaplin was awed and inspired by the sight of glamorous vaudeville stars passing his home, and from then on he never lost his ambition to become an actor. Chaplin's film career as the Little Tramp adored by the whole world is the stuff of legend, but this frank autobiography shows another side. Born into a theatrical family, Chaplin's father died of drink while his mother, unable to bear the poverty, suffered from bouts of insanity. From a childhood of grinding poverty in the south London slums, Chaplin found an escape in his early debut on the music hall stage, followed by his lucky break in America, the founding of United Artists with D.W. Griffith and Douglas Fairbanks, the struggle to maintain artistic control over his work, the string of failed marriages, and his eventual exile from Hollywood after personal scandals and persecution for his left-wing politics during the McCarthy Era.
Sir Charles 'Charlie' Chaplin (1895-1976) was born in Walworth, London. Best known for his work in silent film, his most famous role was The Little Tramp, a universally recognisable and iconic character who appeared in films such as The Kid (1921), The Gold Rush (1925) and City Lights (1931). His other films include Modern Times (1936), a commentary on the Great Depression, and The Great Dictator (1940), a satirical attack on Hitler and the Nazis.
Jan C wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Jan C wrote: "RC - don't think it appeals to this American. And, I, for one, do not generally see things in religious or "American exceptionalism" context. Matt..."With all due respect I'm not sure that 'throwing off the yoke' through a process of colonisation and genocide is something to boast about! Also, you forget, that many of us who are British became that because our parents and/or our parent's parents and/or our parent's parents were the colonised. So there's no such thing as a single uncontested 'history' for many of us.
Alwynne wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Jan C wrote: "RC - don't think it appeals to this American. And, I, for one, do not generally see things in religious or "American exceptionalism"..."Our ancestors are the ones who left, either because of starvation or oppression.
Wonderful story in the 2 December 2024 issue of the New Yorker “Paris Friend” by Shuang Xuetao.https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
That issue also has some terrific reporting on the exodus of OB-GYN doctors from Texas due to its anti-abortion laws, how robots learn manual dexterity and play table tennis, and dealing with black bears that are increasingly prevalent at Lake Tahoe.
I’m not quite finished with The Cooler, George Markstein, but close. I fell into a YT session on Spybrary about the Tim Shipman list of his ranking of 125 Spy authors and their books. I have read only a few of the 125 authors. It shocks me because I am avid mystery/suspense reader. The discussion on the forum was so interesting I have impulsively ordered a few of the books mentioned that are difficult to find, such as Sarah Gainham’s titles. Impulsively I jumped into William F Buckle’s Blackford Oakes (free on Kindle )series starting with Saving The Queen. It was a two day read and I thoroughly enjoyed the language, the plot and the tension build up. I’m focusing on the earlier authors since they are the ones I know least.
Ben wrote: "Wonderful story in the 2 December 2024 issue of the New Yorker “Paris Friend” by Shuang Xuetao.https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
That issue also ha..."
Thanks Ben, will check it out!
I've almost caught up on my back issues. It was hard reading the pre-election issues, seeing from today's perspective all of the misunderstandings and misplaced hope. What I liked about that story was a strong sense of the non-Western personality in the characters, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was in the style and the thinking and emotion that made me think that way. Perhaps it was the way emotions were revealed in actions more than reflection. I would be interested in your observations, Alwynne, particularly given your Asian studies and reading.
The interview with the author didn't get me any closer.
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I love this about writing from a different culture that reflects something distinctive about that culture. That's one of the things that I love about Eileen Chang, for example, especially in her Love in a Fallen City: And Other Stories - it's not just the social structures (concubines, match-makers) that feel non-Western but she creates a different thought-world through her metaphors and similes that are embedded in a figurative way of thinking that is wonderfully alien to Western images in writing.
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www.goodreads.com/review/show/6999371162
I've finished Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy in the audio read by Simon Vance. Reading the series in order has made a huge difference for me.https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
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I'm going to start watching the vintage BBC series today, currently on iplayer.
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www.goodreads.com/review/show/7129044410
Btw, has anyone else seen how GR has fussed up the Reading Challenge page making it so much less attractive than it was?
Roman Clodia wrote: "Btw, has anyone else seen how GR has fussed up the Reading Challenge page making it so much less attractive than it was?."Yes. Initially I hoped it was just a way presenting the link to their "your year in books", but it's clearly part of their work to make the site much less attractive and usable. I have some kind of explosion of digital trash that happens every time I go there. Problem is, for people with neurological issues uncontrolled movement on the screen can be a real problem. It is for me, and doctors have assured me I'm not alone.
They've done it to the app too.
Has anyone figured out how to find previous years' challenges?
Roman Clodia wrote: "G wrote: "I've finished Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy"I'm going to start watching the vintage BBC series today, currently on iplayer."
I don't think I've ever watched it. I did see the 2011 film with Gary Oldman.
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Reading the 20th Century
Books mentioned in this topic
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (other topics)Elizabeth Bowen: short stories: Harper’s Bazaar (other topics)
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (other topics)
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (other topics)
The Hobbit (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
J.R.R. Tolkien (other topics)Annie Ernaux (other topics)
Eileen Chang (other topics)
Charlie Chaplin (other topics)
Curtis Sittenfeld (other topics)
More...
I remember learning in school that:
The USA had the only true democracy, unlike other nations who had Kings, rotten boroughs, military governments and dictators at various times in history and therefore under their cultures and traditions they could revert to this at any time. But in America, our constitution makes us confident that democracy will endure.
The USA is the only nation that has true freedom of speech, since it is constitutionally guaranteed. The same was true with other sections of the Bill of Rights, such as freedom of religion. The rights in other countries were always provisional, were easily changed by majorities, had to be "balanced with other interests", and in any case would not be enforced in their courts, whose judges lack the security of lifetime appointments of judges and therefore cannot rule with independence.
The USA is the only country that truly protects private property, because it cannot be seized without due process of law and fair compensation. Land taken over from native Americans was not really owned by them, because they lacked our American concepts of individual ownership.
The USA engages in wars only to protect the freedom of other people, not for purposes of conquest or wealth as other nations do. The war with Mexico was to protect the freedom of Texans, the war with Spain was to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and protect native peoples from monarchical Spain. Etc.
Yes, slavery was evil, a form of original sin, but Lincoln took care of that, once and for all. The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery, purging us of that sin, and now the Constitution guarantees freedom and (an appropriate amount of) equality forever.
The arc of [our] history bends toward justice, as a recent President said.
Obviously more advanced history courses in universities punctured this, but in my "highly-rated" New York suburban public school district in the 60's and 70's this was dogma, and I bet it's what 95% of Americans are still taught. Probably in much of America, it's illegal to teach otherwise. One must protect the children, after all.
Perhaps you can see why I didn't post it, but raw emotions, etc.
And I just listed to August's New Yorker podcast of George Saunder's story "Love Letter" https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast... and read about the coming appointment of Kash Patel to head the FBI. So America Exceptionalism is particularly hard for me to hear about today.