Quicksand - Spoiler Thread

[Katy, Quarterly Long Reads]

Quicksand by Nella Larsen is our January 2024 New School Classic Group Read.

This is the Spoiler Thread

[Katy, Quarterly Long Reads]

Happy New Year! First New School Classic Read for 2024 - I hope you join us in reading this book.

[George P.]

I will probably finish reading the novel tomorrow, so probably best to go ahead 'til I'm finished before posting my "spoiler" comments.

[John Dishwasher John Dishwasher]

Like Sue over in the no spoiler thread, I was surprised by the provocative ending. Only by considering what Larsen was doing thematically could I accept it. I talk more about this in my review, but I think primarily Larsen is saying that we spend our whole life in a quest to fill an emptiness we feel inside, but that ultimately our quest is futile.

Lately, I've come across this idea of 'anti-natalism,' or the idea that it is immoral to bear children because of the potential suffering of the human being born. I'm not clear yet what I think about that idea, but I would count this book as an argument supporting it. Another novel I've read that supports the idea is Kaddish for an Unborn Child by Imre Kertesz.

[Kathleen]

I just finished this as well, and loved your review, John. I also noted her unwillingness to compromise, and therefore the unusual ending made sense. I don't run across this kind of honesty very often, even in newer books.

I recently heard of anti-natalism too, and it's a fascinating idea. I didn't take this book as supporting that as a philosophy necessarily, but as more of one individual's personal reaction/disappointment. But after reading your review about her theme of our futile attempts to achieve contentment, you have a point.

If we're compiling an anti-natalism reading list, I'd add Doris Lessing's The Fifth Child, which doesn't directly relate but does explore around the idea.

[John Dishwasher John Dishwasher]

Kathleen wrote: "I'd add Doris Lessing's The Fifth Child, which doesn't directly relate but does explore around the idea..."

Ah, yes! I happen to have read The Fifth Child. An unusual and disturbing book and I see the connection you see.

[Kathryn]

I've just finished this book today. I am so grateful for the A-Z challenge as I would not have picked this up otherwise...

I found the book surprisingly relevant and while the specifics of her story might be different today, I'm not sure the themes and overall path would have differed. I hadn't gone as far as considering "anti-natalism" but instead thought about generational trauma. I found the ending appropriate as it hits her that her own "mixed-race" children are likely to follow a similar path.

I wonder whether some problems take more than 1 or even 2 generations to resolve? Is that an antidote to anti-natalism?! Change is hard and slow. Maybe we are getting to a critical mass of migrants and migration to allow us to see belonging and connection in new ways? Or to have enough mixed-heritage families around us now to create our own paths and peace? I'm not sure about that, but I will think on it a little more. Keen for other views...

[Kathleen]

You make some great points, Kathryn, and I agree generational trauma is a big theme. So true that it can take multiple generations to hope to work it out, and great idea about it being an antidote to antinatalism!

It's interesting how so many of us are drawn to outsider stories, because most of us feel like an outsider in some way. And yet the "mainstream" still has so much power. The idea that we could see belonging in new ways sounds wonderful to me.

[Silver]

A while back ago I read Passing by Larsen and I have noticed that Larsen often writes about struggles with identity. In many ways I think Helga also had difficulty defining her identity. Her inability to truly define who she was as a person is what ultimately to her general dissatisfaction and in ability to find contentment or happiness anywhere. Because she didn’t know she really was she could not find a place to truly belong.

I had mixed feelings about the ending. One part of me could not help but to see it as tragic but at the same time I have to acknowledge that Helga put herself in that situation. Out of spite, jealousy, and wounded pride she made a rash and ultimately bad decision. I also found the ending to be slightly disturbing. While I am not saying that Reverend Pleasant forced Helga at the same time I have to keep in mind that this book was set in a time period when a wife had no legal right to say “no” to her husband.

I found that while there were aspects of Helga that were not always sympathetic or likable I still wanted to root for her and hope she finally found her path in life. While I know it might be considered “wrong” a part of me wanted to see her get free of the Reverend and sail back to Europe and start a new life.

[Katy, Quarterly Long Reads]

I thought Helga was a bit whiny and can't say that I liked her either; but like you I cheered her on to make good decision this time around.

[Annette]

It seems Helga knew what she didn’t want in life but she didn’t know what she did want. She definitely tried many scenarios to find her place in the world. The ending left me hoping that she will make the best of things at home and in her community with baby number five on the way.

[Greg]

I just finished, and I guess I'm the only one who felt this way, but I was a little disappointed in the book. It was definitely worth reading though, as several cultural aspects were fascinating, including a glimpse into some sides of black culture of that era that we don't see depicted often.

Larsen didn't shy away from portraying negative aspects; the book felt as though it was written for a black audience in that way. It doesn't cater to a mainstream audience at all. Larsen doesn't idealize black education or "uplift", far from it. And many of her characters are conflicted, such as Anne, who passionately hates white people because of the racism surrounding her and yet emulates white dress and customs. Helga herself often thinks disparaging things about people in the black community as well as of the black community in general, even though she is magnetically drawn to it at the same time and sometimes loves it.

There was a lot of complex psychological understanding here that isn't packaged for outsiders to make a point; it's trying to express internal truths that people in that situation will understand much better and that outsiders might find off-putting or might easily misunderstand. That aspect I really appreciated. I liked how she expressed the complicated relationship Helga had with her own culture and her own communities. Those communities gave her a deep sense of belonging, and she couldn't live without them completely because she felt a spiritual kinship there, but at the same sense, her background made some of that experience toxic.

Her mixed race was a big part of that; it was so unacceptable within the New York community that Helga had to keep it secret. Even the most accepting of her friends warned her that others wouldn't be able to accept it. And Helga, being brought up on the fringes of black communities because of her parents' unusual position, was not quite raised inside of it. So, she didn't really fit culturally there, much as she identified with it.

Psychologically, I think that explains a lot of Helga's behavior that I found extremely selfish and capricious. There was no person in the book that she didn't eventually despise, regardless of how much any person had done for her. She didn't even feel any guilt for cheating with Dr. Anderson, despite how much kindness Anne had showed her. Without Anne and Mrs Hayes-Rore, who knows what would have happened to Helga. She might well have died on the streets! But when she cheats with Dr. Anderson, she has hardly a thought for Anne. She is only angry that Dr Anderson is not more carried away by his passion to abandon Anne more completely.

Helga is not an easy person to like. She thinks disparagingly of other people continually, whether of the way they dress or the way they decorate their houses. She is extremely judgmental throughout. Given her personality, it seems that anyone would eventually end up on her bad side, regardless of what they did for her. But I guess I can see this in the context of Helga's upbringing, with the constant pressure of judgement of both black and white communities. It is hard to grow up between cultures, with no place to call home. The way her uncle treats her is telling; he clearly cares for her deeply, with all the money he gives her, but he belittles her too.

So anyway, the book has a very interesting vantage point with an inside look at a side of the culture of that era not often seen. But the execution wasn't perfect. Some places felt overly descriptive for example. I love vivid description that carries the story forward with nuances and suggestions; there's nothing better. But here, it often seems like a catalogue, when she describes furnishings or surroundings. And I didn't care for the ending at all. I like the idea of the ending, with it ending on the birth of a fifth child, but the actual execution of that ending fell flat for me. I turned the page expecting another chapter, and I actually looked online to make sure my copy wasn't flawed; I thought maybe there were missing pages. The final paragraph just wasn't written in a way where it felt substantial and set apart in the way that conclusions usually do; it felt to me as though the sentences just stopped. Also, I felt sometimes like there wasn't quite enough distance between the author and Helga to provide a proper depth of perspective.

Still, overall I enjoyed it, though there are a great many other works of the Harlem Renaissance that I liked much better. I can understand why this one is lesser known than some others.

[John Dishwasher John Dishwasher]

Greg wrote: "The final paragraph just wasn't written in a way where it felt substantial and set apart in the way that conclusions usually do; it felt to me as though the sentences just stopped..."

Maybe because Helga is hopeless. There is no future for her. Nothing will ever be resolved for her, or concluded.

[Kathleen]

Greg wrote: "Larsen didn't shy away from portraying negative aspects; the book felt as though it was written for a black audience in that way. It doesn't cater to a mainstream audience at all."

I enjoyed reading your thoughts, Greg, and can understand your impressions, but I felt a little different. Though I am not in any way in Helga's situation, I thought it did have universal aspects, such as what it's like to attempt to live different lives (careers, relationships, living situations) and find sometimes the more you try, the harder it is to be satisfied.

I agree the ending was troublesome, but I actually liked the way she didn't shrink from Helga's negative feelings. It felt honest that way.

So I liked it, but I did like her Passing better. If you haven't read that one, I'd recommend it!

[Kathleen]

John Dishwasher wrote: "Maybe because Helga is hopeless. There is no future for her. Nothing will ever be resolved for her, or concluded."

Well said, John! Very stark, but believable.

[Greg]

Kathleen wrote: "I enjoyed reading your thoughts, Greg, and can understand your impressions, but I felt a little different. Though I am not in any way in Helga's situation, I thought it did have universal aspects, such as what it's like to attempt to live different lives (careers, relationships, living situations) and find sometimes the more you try, the harder it is to be satisfied."

I definitely agree that there are universal aspects Kathleen. I didn't mean that there weren't. I just meant that she's not writing with a PR goal in mind; her depiction of the black community airs a lot of internal dirty laundry, and I'm guessing that it raised some hackles with other writers of the period. I know other writers of the period were criticized by their peers for doing that.

I do think that there is much in her specific situation that has to be understood properly to come to terms with her behavior though. Divorced from the psychology of why she acts this way, Helga strikes me as kind of a monster. She's so callous in her affair with Dr. Anderson and doesn't even seem to regret how it might affect Anne, despite all Anne has done for her. In general, she behaves very selfishly, and she doesn't think often of others. She's constantly critical of the way others dress, dance, think, eat, or even decorate their houses. It's completely understandable given the pressures she grew up under, but I don't find her particularly likeable unless I keep the special pressures of her situation in mind.

John and Kathleen, as far as the ending, I don't have a problem with the content of the ending just the execution of it. I wanted something more in the language there; I wanted it to feel special or important language-wise rather than merely stopping mid-thought. Maybe that's just my personal experience of it? Thinking about the ending of The Great Gatsby, that's a lovely ending. Or to go more to another Harlem Renaissance writer, Their Eyes Were Watching God has an almost perfect ending as well. Those have a huge resonance for me. I can invest the final sentence of Quicksand with my own impressions and I can understand that Helga's situation is hopeless in my own analysis of it, but the final paragraph doesn't feel any different to me in terms of quality or resonance than any other paragraph in the book. I think that's what makes me experience it as weird and non-ending-like. But it doesn't seem like others are experiencing it that way; so I guess that's just a personal reaction on my part or just my mood of the moment?

Anyway, although I didn't love the book, I didn't hate it and I'm glad to have read it. Thanks for the recommendation on Passing! Someday, I will give that one a try.

[Kathleen]

I get your point about the ending, Greg, though it didn't take anything away from the experience for me. Maybe the anti-resonance had it's own impact? Anyway, thanks for clarifying!

[Tina]

So many themes: racism, biracial identity, religion, social class, feminism, education...
I found the ending so sad...how many women do this; sacrifice finding purpose, identify, happiness and settle?

[Terris]

I just finished--

I like Nella Larsen and I'm glad I read this book, but I certainly did not like Helga Crane! She was just an unhappy woman who could never be settled and happy. I can only think that Larsen was wanting the reader to learn something about life by taking Helga through many different situations where she could have been happy -- but she wasn't. I was surprised by the ending, but after I thought about it a little bit, I thought "Yes, that's just right."

[Katy, Quarterly Long Reads]

Terris wrote: "I just finished--

I like Nella Larsen and I'm glad I read this book, but I certainly did not like Helga Crane! She was just an unhappy woman who could never be settled and happy. I can only think..."

One can like a book, but not the characters.

[Terris]

Katy wrote: "Terris wrote: "I just finished--

I like Nella Larsen and I'm glad I read this book, but I certainly did not like Helga Crane! She was just an unhappy woman who could never be settled and happy. I..."

Yes!