Play Book Tag discussion
2024 Activities and Challenges
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Books with Friends - Final Rules
Books With FriendsTeams are comprised of 4-6 players each.
Teams may be formed by people agreeing to play together, or PBT administrators will help solo players form a team, each as close to 5 people as we can. Teams or individuals are welcomed to join after the game has begun. We will do our best to place individual players on a team.
Each month the tag is announced. Each team must "spell" the tag (or the first word of the tag if the tag name is composed of two words) using either the first letter of the book title (Excluding leading articles: A, An, The), or the first initial of the author's last name. The team decides among themselves who will read for which letters. Bonus points are awarded for reading a book that also fits the tag.
Example "DRAGONS"
D- Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury (read by player 1)
R – The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule (read by player 2)
A - Assembly by Natasha Brown (read by player 3)
G – Hunger by Roxanne Gay (read by player 3)
O – August is a Wicked Month by Edna O’Brien (read by player 4)
N – His Majesty’s Dragon by Novik (bonus pts for fitting the tag) (read by player 5)
S – Still Alice by Lisa Genova (read by player 2)
NOTE: Starting in February, the "last initial" is derived from the final name that has a space before it. So Louis de Bernières would have a last initial of 'B' , while Kate DiCamillo would have a last initial of 'D'.
Team Play:
Each month, half the team needs to participate in the reading.
If any team member fails to participate, without notice or routinely, they may be dropped from the team and replaced with a reserve recruit at the discretion of remaining members of the team. The plan should be shared in advance with an administrator. People can sign up to be reserves now if they wish.
Points and Standings
Team and individual standings will be posted monthly based on total points earned in game. All books for this challenge must match a letter as described above in order to count toward earning points.
Game points (not participation points) are allocated each month as follows:
- To each team that finishes the task described above - 20 points. Note: No additional points - individual or team - will be awarded if the task is not completed
- If a book that is used to spell the word also fits the monthly tag (must be tagged with the monthly tag 5x), the team will be awarded 3 pts per book that fits.
- For the team that reads the most books that fit the challenge (matching the letters of the tag) and the tag (tagged 5x or more) - 15 points
- For the team that reads the most books that simply match the letters of the tag (title or author last name) - 5 points
- For the team with the most helpful spirit and sportsmanship each month. To get these points, your team must be nominated by someone who is in the game, but not on your team. The nominations will be private. Anita will solicit nominations each month. If there are no nominees then a team will be drawn at random to receive these points - 10 points
Individual Play - **Optional**
Individual play will be optional and must be tracked individually in the space dedicated for that purpose.
- Individual points (10) will be allocated to the person who is voted by their own team members as the most helpful to achieving the team objectives (Nominations need to be put forward by the 1st of the following month, each month. We can't "make" team members do this, so the 10 points may not always be allocated. Nominations will be accepted privately by me. If only one person is nominated, that person will get the points and no voting will occur) - 10 pts
- Individuals who read books that both fit the monthly tag and address a letter in the tag. - 10 pts/book
- Each month that an individual participates by completing a book toward their team goal (reads a book that fits the challenge) will earn individual points - 2 points in month 1, 4 points in month 2, 6 points in month 3, 8 points in month 4, and continuing in that vein at 2 incremental points per month. Months must be sequential, or the scoring starts over with 2 points.
Teams and individuals will be asked to assist with their own scoring, but admins will be doing routine and random checks on all scores.
At year end, game points will be tallied and champions (team and individual) declared.
Schedule
15th of the month - Tag voting begins
21st or 22nd of the month - Tag announced and reading may begin, but reviews may not be posted or the reading will not count.
1st of the month following the announcement - Reviews may be posted.
End of the month - Reviews must be completed for books for the challenge. Nominations for additional awards must be received.
So there is a slight overlap period where you may be reading for the next word, but all of the scoring is going to take place on a month basis as per usual. Reviews should be posted during the month of the tag. To get extra points for matching the tag, the book must be tagged with the tag you are attempting to spell regardless of when the reading began.
All tracking should be done based on the month.
Awesome thank you thank you thank you for removing the Time Competition in January!
That is very clear - thank you! Should be really fun!
Anita, a question has come up in my group. Can a reread be used for this challenge?
I don’t really have a problem with re-reads, but I do expect a new review to accompany it and not just copy and pasting one that was already written.
Anita ... sorry, but I just thought of another question.If I am reading a book for spelling January's word, and I have finished it before Jan 1 ... I have to wait to post the review in PBT until after Jan 1. BUT, can I still post my review in my own bookshelf on Goodreads? I'm envisioning a scenario where I am using the same book for a December challenge in another group and need to get it listed there, even if I want to hold off til January for PBT.
I don't have a problem with holding off entirely ... I always write my reviews in a word document and copy/paste it to GR afterwards. So, I can just save it on word and wait until after Jan 1.
Hope I made that clear.
Hi BC! Someone else asked this question and it’s fine with me if you post the review on your own feed/shelf and then repost on PBT on the correct date.
Anita, I thought I understood this one, but now I see a different interpretation.Regarding
-4. For the team that reads the most books that fit the challenge (matching the letters of the tag) and the tag (tagged 5x or more) - 15 points
- 5. For the team that reads the most books that simply match the letters of the tag (title or author last name) - 5 points
——-
When you calculate # 5, will it also include all the books in #4? If I took out the word “simply”, I would think it does. However if simply means “only” it suggests (to my mind) that the two categories are mutually exclusive.
Example:
Team A reads a total of 40 books. All 40 books match the tag & letter, more than any other group. But they read 0 books with the letter match only.
Team B reads a total of 30 books. 10 books match the tag& letter, and 20 books only match the letter.
Does team A win both the 15 point reward and the 5 point reward?
Or does team A win the 15 point reward, and team B wins the 5 point award?
Thx
Nancy, that's an excellent clarifying question.My vision was that these were two separate buckets. A book can either go in the 1) only matches the letter bucket or 2) matches both the letter and the tag bucket - - but not both!
I see how this wasn't quite clear however so thank you for asking!
Based on the voting, I am removing the award for finishing a word first. It was basically unanimously decided that it was too onerous, especially for people who live outside of the U.S. In it's stead, there will be surprise opportunities to earn extra points scattered throughout the year at random. These will be announced and give teams a chance to earn more points.
There was also some feedback I wanted to respond to just to make sure we are all clear on what's going on here:
1. You are not earning participation points playing this game. The points are all game points. If your team (or you as an individual) wins the game, it's likely participation points will be awarded as prizes, but the points you are earning here are not participation points.
2. There have been some mentions that the game unduly influences the tags selected by awarding reading books that fit the tag. Honestly, there are many many groups out there that have challenges . . .and I am pretty confident we aren't the best of the challenge creators. But when I created this group, the whole point philosophically was to encourage people to read books that might NOT be on their TBR or might not be their usual type of book they would read. So, every activity we do ties to that concept. That's unlikely to change. I can't tell you how many times I've had to read something I normally wouldn't be reading to fit the tag of this group, and I feel the group does achieve this goal . . .the challenges are just one facet.
3. There were some sweet mentions about not wanting to create extra work by changing the challenge, but I am actually very glad you all gave your honest feedback! We create these challenges to have fun, and if it's not fun, then there's no point. I love the collaborative aspects of challenge creation; obviously the admin team needs to make the final call on what seems to work for the whole group - - but overall, your questions and comments help me to think things through a lot better!
Thank you, Anita! It all makes perfect sense and frankly, I love the idea of specials during the year!
Thank you for paying attention to the input of the group! Your solution sounds great to me
Also, regarding # 2-I am surely one of the group that will pass on a tag if it is not anything I care to read. However, I have expanded my reading choices extensively since joining this group and I thank everyone for that!
Some months I was sure I wouldn't read anything for the tag and was amazed that something I was reading for a totally different purpose, or just because I felt like it, happened to fit.
I echo Robin - I am a very eclectic reader but there are some tags that I just avoid. I remember when 'science' was picked -- probably early 2019 because it was among the first months after I joined in 2018 -- and I was sure I'd not manage anything, had nothing. Dear Amy - who totally deserved being honored in Happy Birthday PBT - encouraged me to join in reading a collection of essays Astrophysics for People in a Hurry which I did, gave it 3 stars and it led me to following Neil deGrasse Tyson on FB and in the news. I don't read more of his books or more true science books, but it did broaden my reading horizons and open my mind to ways to handle some of these tags.
I don’t know that the team game influenced the tag vote. I think it’s always going to be based on what people want to read, and how broad the tag is. 2 letters is a minor difference in this game. There is no letter so difficult that you couldn’t find hundreds of books that will fit. And usually only one or two person will have to read those books. Historical fiction and mysteries are staples for many people, so the combination was appealing, and easy to understand. The majority of my team wanted this tag. I was undecided, but voted with my team. If that happened in other groups too I suppose it could have an effect.
If we shared books and sub genres ideas for each tag, it might have changed some opinions, or let people know what direction the vote might go. I suspect more people gave extra votes to reduce uncertainty, due to the Radio Silence by teams.
It's wonderful to hear your comments and thoughts!My idea when originally conceiving this idea was to encourage people read outside their comfort zone, while not requiring them to read specific titles, and my heart is warmed by your comments that you've tried something new or at least expanded your reading horizons in some way that was different than before you arrived!
Sometimes recommendations for the tag given during the month have given me ideas, as Theresa says above.
Some of us have read so many books that it's hard to find a genre that stretches us. I will say, though, that this group has stretched my reading with tags, especially in the first years I was in it, but also learning about books here first. However, some of my biggest stretching has come playing PBT games.The first time I heard of the now very famous The Martian was in this group on PBT way back when. One of our former members interviewed Andy Weir. I think she was the first here to read it. She used to be a prolific reviewer in this group until she got some job back when we were still t here, but can't remember what it was although I think it had something to do with books. I think her name was Susan, but I could be wrong since I often mix up names.
NominationsIf you wish to nominate a team or an individual to receive points, you may submit your nominations at the following link:
https://forms.gle/gvxkoyRxyKMcXEdj8
On the first day of the month, I will review the nominations from the previous month.
For the team nominations, I will decide which team gets the points award from the nominees based on what is described, and what I observe.
For the individual nominations, if there are two people nominated on the same team, I will solicit input from the remaining team members to ascertain the winner. If only one person is nominated, then they will get the points. A member from each team may earn the individual points each month.
1. For the team with the most helpful spirit and sportsmanship each month. To get these points, your team must be nominated by someone who is in the game, but not on your team. The nominations will be private. Anita will solicit nominations each month. If there are no nominees then a team will be drawn at random to receive these points - 10 points
2. Individual points (10) will be allocated to the person who is voted by their own team members as the most helpful to achieving the team objectives (Nominations need to be put forward by the 1st of the following month, each month. We can't "make" team members do this, so the 10 points may not always be allocated. Nominations will be accepted privately by me. If only one person is nominated, that person will get the points and no voting will occur) - 10 pts
Where do we post the reviews once we have completed a BWF Book? I see that people are posting their books and it has a crossover BWF designation. But I am not sure where it is they are posting. Here's what I did. I posted under the monthly tag, and then I told Hayley for the team tracking, and put in in my individual tracking. Is there another place this gets recorded? Thx....
If the book fits the tag, the review should go in the monthly tag thread. If the book does not fit the tag, the review should go in other books. Then link to the review in the reporting thread (sounds like Hayley doing that).
Question: When an author has a "von" or "de" in his/her name, which letter do we select for BWF?Example: For author Louis de Bernieres, would the qualifying letter for the last name be "d" or "B"?
Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?
Anita, For Team reporting on "the extras" do you want the number of tags, or just that the book has the 5 required tags?
Joy D wrote: "Question: When an author has a "von" or "de" in his/her name, which letter do we select for BWF?Example: For author Louis de Bernieres, would the qualifying letter for the last name be "d" or "B"?"
Joy, Goodreads alphabetizes it as de if that helps. That’s what I’ve been using. Google says to use articles when alphabetizing regardless of language. (Aty would count it as B if there is a space between de Bernieres, recognizing that it might not be correct, to avoid confusion with short middle names.)
Joy D wrote: "Question: When an author has a "von" or "de" in his/her name, which letter do we select for BWF?Example: For author Louis de Bernieres, would the qualifying letter for the last name be "d" or "B"?"
Most challenge groups that I belong to identify the "last initial" as the final name that has a space before it. So Louis de Bernières would have a last initial of 'B' , while Kate DiCamillo would have a last initial of 'D'.
Joy D wrote: "Question: When an author has a "von" or "de" in his/her name, which letter do we select for BWF?Example: For author Louis de Bernieres, would the qualifying letter for the last name be "d" or "B"?"
I actually had to research this a bit. Technically von or de is derived from titles. Had no idea. I think Book Concierge's response is the most apt, but this month, I will be lenient about it, since it wasn't in the rules. So if you picked d or B for de Bernieres this month, that's fine. I will add to the official rules so going forward it should be as Book Concierge described.
Karin wrote: "Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?"There will only be a vote if there is more than one nominee on a given team.
If there is more than one nominee for the individual reward, I will solicit votes from the rest of the team to ascertain which individual will receive the award.
Joanne wrote: "Anita, For Team reporting on "the extras" do you want the number of tags, or just that the book has the 5 required tags?"I'm totally fine either way. You can say "12 tags" or you can say "meets 5 tag minimum". I don't care. So long as you show me you are claiming it as tagged!
Anita wrote: "Karin wrote: "Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?"There will only be a vote if there is more than one nomine..."
Just to clarify...
"Sportsmanship" is used in the Between-Group nominations, to nominate another team.
"Helpful" is used in the Within-team nominations to nominate a team member. (Our team settled on an alternate method to avoid competition within the team.)
NancyJ wrote: "Anita wrote: "Karin wrote: "Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?"There will only be a vote if there is more t..."
Yes, but I don't discern that much between them. With Sportsmanship, I think there is an element of respectfulness in communications and behavior, but being helpful encompasses that too.
Also, nominations are going to be kept confidential in terms of who made the nomination.
Anita wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Anita wrote: "Karin wrote: "Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?"There will only be a vote if ..."
I only commented in case Karin was referring to the group score
Anita wrote: "I actually had to research this a bit. Technically von or de is derived from titles. Had no idea. I think Book Concierge's response is the most apt, but this month, I will be lenient about it, since it wasn't in the rules. So if you picked d or B for de Bernieres this month, that's fine. I will add to the official rules so going forward it should be as Book Concierge described..."Thanks for the clarification!
NancyJ wrote: "Anita wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Anita wrote: "Karin wrote: "Just to clarify since I see it's in the final rules, each team votes for their own team member re: sportsmanship, correct?"There will only..."
Lol, oh I see! Sorry - - I was confused . . .
Also meant to mention this much sooner, but for those of you who like to add your books to the group bookshelf, the "tag"/shelf name for this is Books with Friends.
Anita, some Asian names have different conventions regarding the last name. For instance Joy mentioned a while back that the last name of Tan Twan Eng is actually Tan. I checked a few authors on a list.
Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress by Dai Sijie. On lists alphabetized by last name, he is shown as Dai, Sijie, and is sorted as Dai.
The Gift of Rain byTan Twan Eng. On alphabetized lists by last name, he is sorted as Tan. In this game, should we consider his initial as T or E?
Anita rules, of course. But most challenge groups I participate in use a general convention.It's how the author's name is listed in Goodreads. The last name with a space before it is the initial you use. Makes it easy for everyone without having to remember a different rule for x or y reason.
(It's their same reasoning for last names that are like "de Bernieres" or "Van Tighem".
In the past I have used the author's family name - in the case of Tan Twan Eng, his family (surname) is Tan. I think it is culturally aware to use the name the author would use as his surname, not just what's convenient for a game. But that is only my opinion, and Anita will, of course, have the final word.
My knowledge in this area comes primarily from figure skating - which I followed for years - and a few colleagues and friends who are immigrants or children of immigrants. You also need to know how the figure skater or individual - or here author - has chosen to order his/her/their name. Those chinese authors who live full time in the west or even were born here of immigrant parents, may no longer be honoring the culteral tradition and have reordered their name putting family name last. Personally I am not fully familiar with all possible chinese family names to distinguish just by looking at the name itself.
This reminds me of why we did not attempt to alphabetize by last name the defendants (which is the norm) in a case I have (the partition suit for the condo destroyed by fire) -- 34 chinese names taken off the unit deeds - some are clearly following cultural Chinese norm, some clearly following western norms, and some we could not separate which name was the family name. So we organized by property lot number which drove our judge nuts. We also used full names at all times when mentioning in legal documents.
Book Concierge wrote: "Anita rules, of course. But most challenge groups I participate in use a general convention.It's how the author's name is listed in Goodreads. The last name with a space before it is the initial..."
The problematic name I found is Cixin Liu. Goodreads has two pages for him, one saying Liu Cixin and the other - Cixin Liu. Which one should we go with?
Book Concierge wrote: "Anita rules, of course. But most challenge groups I participate in use a general convention.It's how the author's name is listed in Goodreads. The last name with a space before it is the initial..."
I want to stick with the way BC is suggesting so I don't need to arbitrate a 100 Asian names with which I have no expertise.
So please go with the "last initial" as the final name that has a space before it. as she suggested earlier.
In cases like the one Diane presents, I will research and make the call, but please don't start reading the book until you are sure.
Diana, I will check on Cixin Liu or Liu Cixin to see if I can determine what's most used here in the U.S.
Library of Congress has Liu as the surname.I noticed fantasticfiction.com and library of congress list it as Liu, Cixin in the catalog, but when it is written in paragraphs or sentences it is, "Liu Cixin, born in June 1963, is a representative of the new generation of Chinese science fiction authors and recognized as a leading voice in Chinese science fiction." I think that is recognizing the preferred order in writing, but recognizing the surname in the conventional American format in the cataloging.
Cora wrote: "Library of Congress has Liu as the surname."Thank you, Cora. I also researched, and every U.S. book cover has Liu as the last name. So my "verdict" is that this author is representative of the letter L for purposes of our game.
It's good to have that confirmed by someone else so thank you, Cora!!
@Cora - that was a fantastic bit of research! I'm adding my thanks to Anita's. It will help me outside the game, though we usually figure out a work-around with a large number of individual names and stick with that.
Anita wrote: "Cora wrote: "Library of Congress has Liu as the surname."Thank you, Cora. I also researched, and every U.S. book cover has Liu as the last name. So my "verdict" is that this author is representat..."
Thank you, Anita. Your reply is very helpful
Anita, Is there a new nomination form to recognize our team members?
NancyJ wrote: "Anita, Is there a new nomination form to recognize our team members?"I am sure Anita will post it as soon as she has time.
I found the old one from January 6, and it still opened up, so I used it for February.
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
A Psalm for the Wild-Built (other topics)A Psalm for the Wild-Built (other topics)
A Prayer for the Crown-Shy (other topics)
A Psalm for the Wild-Built (other topics)
Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Cixin Liu (other topics)Dai Sijie (other topics)
Tan Twan Eng (other topics)
Louis de Bernières (other topics)
Kate DiCamillo (other topics)
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The award for being first to complete the word is eliminated. It was literally unanimous amongst the players that it was too onerous.