The Battle of Life (hosted by Petra)

[Petra]

Sam wrote: "Apologies, of course I will stay. I thought there was one more day but got turned around somehow while reading all the comments..."

No apologies required, Sam. I didn't want you to miss out on the ending.

[Petra]

Kathleen wrote: "I loved the ending. I love that they have been living by the nutmeg grinder motto “Do as you would be done by,” and now the sporadically wise Britain wants to add the thimble motto “Forget and forg..."

Kathleen, I've been charmed by the wisdom of the nutmeg grinder and thimble that has been occurring throughout this read. Such simple mottos that bring so much stability and happiness when followed.
I enjoyed how Dickens threaded these mottos throughout the story. It was one of the genious ideas of this story.

[Petra]

Connie wrote: "This family and their friends should be fine in the future if they follow Clemency's two important mottoes. I was happy that Michael turned around his life...."

Connie, I agree. This family and their friends will be happy in their lives. I choose to believe that Time told the narrator the true truth and they all lived happily ever after. While Life will continue to give them battles and challenges, I choose to believe that all will be well for this group as they make their way through each day.

I also enjoyed Alfred's "enjoy each day and be grateful" philosophy. Such an attitutude takes a person far each day and brings hope and focus to the darkest day.

This story is charming, in its way. It has it's flaws but I am grateful that Dickens wrote it and that we all read it together here.

[Petra]

Thank you, all, for the lovely comments. I truly enjoyed leading this read and spending this time with you all. It's been a joy to come here each day and read your thoughts and ideas. It's been enlightening to me and I've gotten a much deeper appreciation for the story than if I had just read it on my own.

Thank you for joining me each day and being a part of this wonderful reading.

[Petra]

Lee wrote: "And thankfully we have John Forster to give us information that would have simply been lost.."

Lee, I recommend reading John Forster's 3-volume biography of Dickens' life, The Life of Charles Dickens.
Like this story, it has it's flaws and moments, but it is also fascinating and intimate. John's writing can be dry at times, but it also can be exciting when he's talking about his friend. These volumes give a true feeling of getting to know Dickens.
John Forster's friendship and love for Dickens really comes through.

This work was a group read and there are threads set up for each volume.

[Lee]

Thank you, Petra, for leading us through the twists and turns of this novella and particularly all the gorgeous illustrations. I am going to re-read this novella now that we are at an end, and see how I feel about it in one piece. Dickens's imagery of a battlefield at the beginning was the best part of the story! It held such potential and raised the "stakes" high indeed for the main characters.

For me it foreshadowed A Tale of Two Cities which he was to publish 13 years later. In THAT novel he was able to use the emotions of a battle and enlarge it to epic proportions!

[Lee]

Petra wrote: "
Lee, I recommend reading John Forster's 3-volume biography of Dickens' life . . "

I am actually in the middle of Vol II now. However, I have had to skip so much as there are atleast two early novels of his I have never read, and I didn't want to encounter spoilers. So once I have Barnaby Rudge and Nicholas Nickelby
under my belt, I might have to return to Vol 1!

[Petra]

Lee wrote: "For me it foreshadowed A Tale of Two Cities which he was to publish 13 years later. In THAT novel he was able to use the emotions of a battle and enlarge it to epic proportions!.."

Lee, I'm glad you mentioned this. I've been waffling about whether to mention it or not.

This little story seems to me to be the beginnings of the musings and ideas of two of Dickens' novels: A Tale of Two Cities (published 1859) and Bleak House (published 1853).
The ideas contained here are perhaps Dickens' first inklings of ideas that led to these two novels. At this point, he may not (probably did not) know that these beginnings would lead to such marvelous novels.

We, because of our hindsight, are able to see more than the author himself saw at the time about where these ideas would lead him, I think.

[Lee]

Sam wrote: "Well we have ended and I find my words are spent. With all the other wonderful comments, I am going to grab my chance to bow out without more to say on the story. Instead I want to thank everyone f..."

I can't think of a more graceful concluding comment than yours, Sam! I agree that Petra did a masterful job leading this read. I also appreciate that you are "overbooked!

[Petra]

Lee, I'm glad to hear that you're reading John Forster's works. I'm reading Volume 3 (extremely slowly.....sigh). I plan to finish it soon, though....before we start our next Dickens novel. .....there, I said it. Now I have to do it. LOL...

I enjoyed Nicholas Nickleby and have yet to enjoy Barnaby Rudge.

[Petra]

I have to add that I do find it exciting that we are in on the birth of two wonderful Dickens' novels and that we are seeing that beginning in a way that Dickens couldn't have.
We see the beginning and the end, so to speak, by our vantage points.

[MN]

I’ve found it hard to stop arguing with Dickens’ ending for this novella, to quash the feeling that it would have been more satisfactory had Marion eloped with Michael Warden. From a textual perspective this would make sense of some of slightly puzzling, if glancing, elements that cropped up. For example, Dr Jeddler’s comment at the start, on coming across his daughters dancing in the orchard, ‘Music and dancing to-day! I thought they dreaded to-day’, seems to cohere with the idea that Marion might be rather relieved about Alfred’s departure, particularly since we also learn that it was Marion who began the dance, but otherwise is rather difficult to place.

From a narrative perspective, elopement rather than an unwanted marriage seems, to me, a more plausible, satisfactory – and acceptable - explanation for Marion’s flight than the rather convoluted and somewhat questionable motive given in the text.

But I then wondered whether my reaction merely points up a disparity between Victorian sensibilities and my own. Elsewhere, Dickens is generous towards fallen women, and those who effectively ruin their lives for love (Bleak House springs to mind), but nevertheless also take cares to sustain Victorian veneration for woman as ‘angel in the house’. I wondered whether this veneration would have made Dickens’ resolution of the narrative seem the more acceptable/satisfactory for contemporary readers.

I have other quibbles with Dickens, too. But I’ve hugely enjoyed being exercised by the flaws and so in this book. The group’s discussion has been a joy. Thank you, Petra, for your summaries, the illustrations, and responses.

[Lee]

Petra wrote: "MN wrote: "Am I alone in finding Marion's cavalier attitude towards Alfred's feelings problematic; and her method of engineering his and Grace's relationship morally unacceptable?."

I think it was the paternalistic society that Dickens was immersed in that made this situation acceptable. The father had the final say when a suitor presented a marriage proposal. {Unjust in contemporary standards.] That Marion felt she had to remove herself from society seems ghastly to me. Again, are we looking at a conflict in Victorian and contemporary ethics?

Where can we go to read contemporaneous criticisms of this novella? I am curious if the situation presented by Dickens was uncomfortable to Victorian readers.

[Petra]

Lee, I found this article from The Spectator, 26 December 1846:

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/articl...

Scathing review!

[Lee]

Thank you, Petra!!!

I'll read it tonight. Nice to know you are out west. Beautiful part of the US! 😉

[Petra]

Lee, I'm in Canada. Just over the border from the States.

Enjoy the article. It had many of the same issues with the story that we had. Intersting read.

[Sam]

Petra wrote: "Well, that's it. We've made it to the end of this story.

Tell us what you think of not only this summary, but the entire story as a whole.
Dickens is always a joy to read. What joys dd he bring with this novella?

I noticed some of us trying to relate this story to real life. I find it works much better as a fairy tale or allegory. The story seems to have been designed to illustrate the concept of the title and if we apply too much scrutiny, we spoil the mood and message.

I say the above but qualify it by saying the joy for me was in perceiving what works or what doesn't in the story and comparing it to other Dickens' work as many of us did here. This style of writing that suspends our exact knowledge of what is happening and extends the mystery is much refined in Bleak House and one of its significant achievements, so seeing the technique in development is a joy. Plus, Dickens is an established classic author. I do not think we besmirch him by occasionally noting his human failings. OTOH, I think it makes his better work look even more remarkable. So for me this was a fun, informative read, as have been all my reads at Dickensians, and it is thanks to spirit here I think, which I like to think Dickens would have lauded. See everyone soon.

[Bridget]

Petra wrote: "Clemency reminds me of Tilly Slowboy as well, from The Cricket on the Hearth.."

That's an excellent comparison, Petra. I had forgotten about Tilly Slowboy, thanks for reminding me. Both Clemency and Tilly have elbows, arms etc that they can't seem to control. They added so much humor to their stories. One of my absolute favorite ascpects of Dickens writing is all the hilarious minor characters in his stories!

[Petra]

Sam, thank you for your thoughts.

I, too, am thrilled that we could be in on the beginnings of some of Dickens' thoughts and what would later become some of his best novels. Seeing these ideas emerge is fascinating.

I enjoyed some of the ambiguity within this story, especially the ending where Time may, or may not, have foretold the future. We're left with a perfect "happily ever after" for every one of our characters.....but are we? Life doesn't work like that. The narrator states that Time is not always reliable when looking into the future.
Like the thousands of lives lost in the battle at the beginning of this work. These young men also had a "happily ever after" in their futures but circumstances out of the control of the young men stopped that with Death. We never know what Life will bring our way.
Alfred's philosophy to be grateful for every day and any & all the beauty contained in each day is, perhaps, how Dickens is suggesting we look at Life. Be grateful, enjoy the good that each day brings. That is living Life to the fullest that we can.
Maybe that's what Dickens is suggesting.

[Petra]

I am very grateful that we could enjoy this story together. You've all brought more insight and thought to my reading than I would have done on my own. Your insights brought more depth and understanding my way. I appreciate every comment and input. Thank you.

[Bridget]

MN wrote: "I’ve found it hard to stop arguing with Dickens’ ending for this novella, to quash the feeling that it would have been more satisfactory had Marion eloped with Michael Warden. From a textual perspe..."

I felt many of the things you describe in this post, MN. I wanted so badly for the title and the battle described in the opening paragraphs to have some significance for the ending, and sort of create some cohesion in the story.

That didn't really happen IMO, at least not to the degree I hoped for. I started to wonder if it would have been better to leave off the battle at the beginning and rename the story. But the writing about the battle is wonderful. It would be a shame to edit that out. So, I feel very much like Petra (and others) that these themes were flushed out in future novels more completely, and it's exciting to read it here and know in the future these seeds bear fruit.

In the end, I just love the way Dickens writes, and for that reason alone I enjoyed reading this novella. And reading it with all of you is one of life's little blessings for which I am grateful. Thank you Petra, for giving us so much of your time and talent putting this together.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Once again, Petra, I can't thank you enough for all of the hard work you put into presenting this story for the Dickensians! group. Your daily summaries, amazing selection of illustrations, and constant interaction with each member's comments were simply amazing. Thank you!

I have been rather introspective on this novella the past couple of days because the ending (dare I say it?) felt contrived to me. One of the things I have always loved about Dickens was his extraordinary ability to tie all of the loose ends together with no evidence of contradictions. In this story, however, explanations just didn't seem plausible to me: Marion went to live at her nearby aunt's house for six years, and somehow the secret never came out? Alfred knew early on why Marion went into hiding, and he was supposed to switch his love to Grace (and how humiliating for Grace when she found out the game that had been played behind her back for years)? Why was Michael Warden in mourning clothes when he returned? There appeared to be a lot of red herrings in this story.

When I finished reading the story, I felt I understood why this novella was not a success for Dickens. So Petra, I am so glad you found that article in message 464 (that is an amazing piece of research, by the way) and included it in our discussion. I didn't feel so bad for being so disappointed in my final feelings about this story, as I was so invested in it throughout our discussion.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Bridget wrote: "I wanted so badly for the title and the battle described in the opening paragraphs to have some significance for the ending, and sort of create some cohesion in the story...."

That is exactly how I felt as well, Bridget. I agree with everything you said in your comment about the inclusion of this thought-provoking battle scene.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

I would like to add that I did enjoy Dickens' minor characters in this story. Clemency is so memorable and added so much to the story. It was a joy to see Michael Warden mature and develop awareness of other people's needs, as in his bestowing the inn and land to Clemency and Britain. Unlike the lawyers in Bleak House, Dickens gave Snitchey and Craggs warm-hearted personalities, and it was touching to witness Snitchey's grief over the loss of his long-time partner.

I always love how Dickens created such unique three-dimensional characters, and his skill at doing so was evident in this short story as well. So, notwithstanding my disappointment in the story's wrap-up, I did enjoy my time with these wonderful characters.

[Petra]

Bridget wrote: "In the end, I just love the way Dickens writes, and for that reason alone I enjoyed reading this novella. And reading it with all of you is one of life's little blessings for which I am grateful. .."

Bridget, I think that this is something we all agree on. Reading Dickens is a wonderful experience, no matter what he writes. His writing is so astute.

[Petra]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Marion went to live at her nearby aunt's house for six years, and somehow the secret never came out? Alfred knew early on why Marion went into hiding, and he was supposed to switch his love to Grace (and how humiliating for Grace when she found out the game that had been played behind her back for years)? Why was Michael Warden in mourning clothes when he returned? ..."

Shirley, I would agree and say we all have the same questions. I kept waiting for Dickens to pull it all together but we're left with no answers.
That's Life....I guess. Perhaps the mysteries are part of the battles we face? LOL!.....sorry, just having fun with this title. We'll always be left in the dark regarding these questions.

[Petra]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I would like to add that I did enjoy Dickens' minor characters in this story. Clemency is so memorable and added so much to the story. It was a joy to see Michael Warden mature and develop awareness of other people's needs..."

Yes, I think Clemency was the best character in this novella. I'm also very glad that Michael matured well and will be financially okay, too. It's nice when a young person can make such a big mistake and still get that second chance.

[Petra]

Thank you, All, for such kind words. I had a wonderful time with this read and appreciated every day. Thank you again. I'm thrilled that this read was so well enjoyed.

See you all next year.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Petra, what can I say? You've done us proud yet again, and led a most enjoyable and intriguing read with lots of extra goodies, and acknowledgement for everyone. And how you kept Dickens's secret misdirection up your sleeve, I don't know! 😂

This of course a lovely tale, of its time and full of sentiment. Perhaps now we have this thread, more people on Goodreads will be prompted to read this heart-warming little book.

I hope you know how grateful we are! Thank you 😊🤗 You're a diamond! 💎💎

And a final wise quotation from the novella:

"If there were no such thing as display in the world, my private opinion is, and I hope you agree with me, that we might get on a great deal better than we do, and might be infinitely more agreeable company than we are."

[Petra]

Jean, and everyone, thank you! I enjoy our time together here over the Holidays (and beyond).

That is a wonderful quote, Jean.

Thank you again. This was a lot of fun. I'm glad we have our group reads.