Tournament of Books discussion
2024 ToB
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2024 TOB Shortlist
I’m through 6! I may skip Brainwyrms bc the cover/title makes me think: not for me, but I think I’ve accidentally gotten the doorstops out of the way, so maybe there’s hope to be a near-completist. No DNFs far, but maybe I’m avoiding those…onward!
I found The Auburn Conference to be pretty "meh" after a promising opening (loved the send-up of clueless academic administrators). I thought Chain Gang was good though I can't say I enjoyed it exactly. The violence can be pretty overwhelming, but the commentary on the carceral state felt important and on point to me. It scared me that I could see this alt-reality taking place pretty readily in the here and now.
Starting Heaven and Earth next with very high hopes.
Peggy wrote: "I found The Auburn Conference to be pretty "meh" after a promising opening (loved the send-up of clueless academic administrators). I thought Chain Gang was good though I can't say I enjoyed it e..."
I am dragging myself through Chain Gang now. I cannot read more than 50 pages of it a day because the violence is just too much. The footnotes are the best part of it for me -- underscoring how this dystopia is only a half-step away from our past and current reality (and in some instances, such as solitary confinement, not even a half step away). It won't end up as one of my "favorites", but, as with "Lost Journals of Sacajawea", I appreciate the author's aims.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...Not sure if everyone saw that a shortlist was created. I always enjoy which books naturally rise up based on voting.
Thanks Rachel, I just voted. It reinforced the fact I only really liked 3-4 of these, none of the others I’ve read so far were over 3 stars. I think this is the first year that’s happened for me.
Elizabeth wrote: "Thanks Rachel, I just voted. It reinforced the fact I only really liked 3-4 of these, none of the others I’ve read so far were over 3 stars. I think this is the first year that’s happened for me."Same, Elizabeth. It's been an odd year so far for me with this shortlist. "Heaven & Earth Grocery Store" and "The Guest" were 5-star reads for me, and "Open Throat" and "The Librarianist" just a slight notch below those.
I have not yet decided whether to read "Shamshine" and "Monstrilio", but I will definitely read "The Bee Sting" and "Blackouts". Fingers crossed that one of these is also a 5-star read,...
This list is what the youths would refer to as being mid.
I'm now through 10 -- an enforced stay-at-home due to a positive COVID test has helped goose me -- and I have to say that except for Heaven and Earth G.S. and, to some extent, Open Throat, everything else has struck me as mediocre in the extreme. I have some hopes for the remaining 10 -- I do like Patrick deWitt, and I'm intrigued by Blackouts -- but I'm still on tenterhooks as to whether or not I'll be able to get hold of Bee Sting in time. I'm #21 on the holds list, but we do have 8 cc, so I should have it some time in February, and I intend to have read all the rest long before then, so...Anyway, I've just started Monstrilio, which makes the remaining: Blackouts, Brainwyrms, Chain-Gang, Auburn Conference, Librarianist and Shamshine Blind. Any strong feelings about any of these will be of interest to me!
So sorry about your Covid bout, Ellen! I wish we had a “less mid” (benefit to Kip - I’m not nearly that cool) list to support you through it.
Well, I'm currently taking a break and reading a book I like - and I'm sure you do/will, too, Risa! -- Julie Schumacher's latest. What a joy!
I enjoyed Monstrilio, loved Librarianist, had no strong feelings on Blackouts and hated shamshine.
Ooh. Nice for me, since I just started Monstrilio and have Librarianist on deck.
I must say, the books have been so mediocre so far that I can't summon up a sentiment so strong as hate. The closest might be Boys Weekend, but since it's neither my genre nor format, I give it a little leeway...
As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way! I think most years I've had 2-5 "wow, amazing!" books on the short list, 5-8 "pretty darn good" books, a few "meh" and just 1-2 "yikes, I want to unread that" books. This year, I've had 0 in the first category, about 3 in the second, and all the rest are falling into the latter two. I'm also expecting more DNFs this year, where I've previously been a completist most years.
Luckily, I'm loving this list of 2024 books, and it's giving me hope that our next short list could be much better.
https://electricliterature.com/75-boo...
As far as Ellen's mentions (sorry about the covid!), I thought Monstrilio was fine (less gruesome than expected until that one awful scene toward the end), but it lacked the heart of similar stories. I'll elaborate on that in the tournament.
I'm still waiting for my back-ordered copy of Blackouts, but I have my fingers crossed it lands better than the rest.
Chain-Gang is important, and I appreciate it, but it's pretty over-the-top violent and lacking in some small ways.
The Auburn Conference was... a mix of courageous, silly, and trying-too-hard, and it induced a few eye rolls along with chuckles for me.
The Librarianist was meh. Sometimes interesting but pretty forgettable.
I tried twice with Shamshine, and I just couldn't connect. My first official DNF of the tournament. But I'll be starting Brainwyrms soon, and as the description/cover is totally not for me, I'll be allowing myself to ditch it as soon as it feels like punishment to continue. (I wish I had DNF'd Manhunt, Tender is the Flesh, and that one random Occupy-related book (anyone remember the title?) in previous years.)
Anyway, the good news about this "mid" list is that we'll have far fewer heartbreaks in March, right?
OMG, that awful "Occupy" book. What the hell WAS that called? I have a vague feeling it was a play-in?
I feel the same way about this list, very "meh" to bad. I do wonder if this is the first year we're getting a full list of books conceived of during COVID height (2020-21) and the collective zeitgeist of that era that infuses into the prose regardless of topic is just so off putting.
Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way! “I know we all like to complain, but I just did a completely scientific and statistically valid survey of the last 5 tournaments. In general, there are about 8 books a year I’m glad I read, and 2-4 I wish I hadn’t. The exception year was 2020, which only had 4 books I really enjoyed (but the same number of stinkers as usual).
That feels like a pretty good mix, if they bracket them sensibly.
I’m not far enough into this year’s shortlist to really know yet, but so far I’ve read 4 I’ve liked, and only 1 I haven’t. That’s just about right, (and doesn’t count 2 DNFs that will get a second chance) although I’ve been trying to front load the good stuff, so who knows.
In any event, it doesn’t seem so unusual a year this year… at not quite half-way, and before we’ve argued about them.
Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way..."I just looked back at a few previous years, and saw i only had 4 books I really liked last year as well. But in other years I gave many more books 4 stars and above:
2022: 7
2021: 12(!!)
2020: 8
2019: 10
2019: 8
2018: 9
2017: 9
There were many good books published last year, I had quite a few I gave 5 stars, I don't think the issue is that they couldn't find anything better. I just think they made some weird choices, it's like they threw darts.
Please pardon my aside, but I declare it an absolute tragedy that Daniel Mason’s North Woods is not in this year’s ToB. For my money, it is the single best book published during 2023. I demand a write-in!
Phyllis I just finished it also and thought the same thing!
Elizabeth wrote: "Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm not alone in feel..."I always thought it would be fun for one zombie to be from the shortlist and to open up the other zombie to a vote for a book that didn't make the shortlist. In any case, I picked up North Woods at a year end sale and plan to read it soon among the shortlist selections.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one feeling particularly unenthusiastic about this list. My own issue is thinking about the potential we could have had from the great long list - I just finished Birnam Wood and Idlewild before making my year end list, and I loved them both.
After I finish Monstrilio: That Darn Lung! I'll be halfway through the list and will start to tackle the rest as the library sends them to me. I'm trying to keep an open mind!
I believe the Occupy book you don't want to remember is 'Overthrow' by Caleb Crain. :D
The shortlist feels so different this year, plus the play in round has two of my favorites and I so wish they both had the chance to move through the rounds! I noticed Rufi Thorpe is the play in judge and I’m spending too much time analyzing how I think she will vote lol. I’m enjoying Monstrilio at the moment. Also I agree with you Phyllis, I’m reading and loving North Woods, not quite halfway in but I have to agree that so far I am stunned it didn’t make the list.
Phyllis wrote: "Please pardon my aside, but I declare it an absolute tragedy that Daniel Mason’s North Woods is not in this year’s ToB. For my money, it is the single best book published during 2023. I dem..."I was calling for this pre-list announcement and I fully agree, it is not only my favorite book of 2023, but it feels exactly like a book that fit's the ToB oeuvre.
I love this discussion because we have the same one every year. Every year the list is terrible, unusually bad, worse than all that came before and every year during the tournament, people come back to talk about how devastated they are that the book they loved was ousted. Never change! I have hopes that we will all hate next year's list even more, and our hearts will be pulverized by that one bad decision (different decision for everyone) just like last year. That said, and given that I've only read a handful so far, but boy, is Cold People bad. I'm looking forward to its evisceration because it deserves it.
Alison wrote:"That said, and given that I've only read a handful so far, but boy, is Cold People bad. I'm looking forward to its evisceration because it deserves it."I am disappointed with myself for actually reading Cold People in its entirety and not DNFing earlier. It was so, so bad. There is so much better genre fiction out there, I struggle to figure out why this book made either list.
Alison wrote: "I love this discussion because we have the same one every year...."Alison, I remember people feeling very passionately happy to see their favorite books make it to the short list, even if there was general meh-ness about the rest of the novels. I think that "I absolutely loved this book and I'm so glad it's in the TOB" aspect of the typical conversation is a little muted this year?
Anyway what often happens for me is a reconsideration, once the judgments start to appear, where I see things about the book that I missed on my own. For the most part the judges all begin with questions like these: "what is good about this novel?" ... "what is unique about my experience, reading this novel?"... and that carefulness can reveal things my own reading didn't.
Lark wrote: "Alison wrote: "I love this discussion because we have the same one every year...."Alison, I remember people feeling very passionately happy to see their favorite books make it to the short list, ..."
Agreed!
All of the shortlist books that are currently in my top tier I can easily imagine being ousted early from the tournament, either for not being "arty"/cool enough for some judge's tastes (e.g., H&EGS) or for being deemed too similar in theme to many prior novels (e.g., The Guest). Perhaps I've matured -- or at least grown accustomed to my favorites being given the boot -- but I predict that my reaction to their inevitable ouster this year will be "muted", as Lark says, because I don't have the same "This is a Hill I Am Prepared To Die On" feeling about my current "favorites" as I've had in some prior years' tournaments.
Risa wrote: "Lark wrote: "Alison wrote: "I love this discussion because we have the same one every year...."Alison, I remember people feeling very passionately happy to see their favorite books make it to the..."
I remember a few years ago getting upset with people who didn’t love my loves (like Idaho! Sing Unburied Sing! That was my favorite year.) My feelings for them were so visceral, and I agree I haven’t felt that for any TOB books for awhile.
I'm already bracing myself for the Blackouts - Dayswork match. There will be weeping, if I have to provide all the tears so be it.
Elizabeth wrote: "I remember a few years ago getting upset with people who didn’t love my loves (like Idaho! Sing Unburied Sing! That was my favorite year.) My feelings for them were so visceral, and I agree I haven’t felt that for any TOB books for awhile...."I wonder if that's the fault of the books, or have we simply grown more and more jaded over time? We have been wallowing in riches for years now, it stands to reason that we might be judging more harshly and finding it harder to go into a book with an open heart.
I mean, I'm currently reading a ToB book by an author I have greatly enjoyed in years past, and feeling very sour and at odds with it.
Elizabeth wrote: "Risa wrote: "Lark wrote: "Alison wrote: "I love this discussion because we have the same one every year...."Alison, I remember people feeling very passionately happy to see their favorite books m..."
Yes! On reconsideration, I have actually not matured, because I am STILL not over "Idaho" being ousted in Round 1. ;-)
I feel like even more of an outlier than usual this year, because the books I've enjoyed the most so far are the books that most people are deeply disappointed in or DNFing (The Shamshine Blind & Cold People)
Nadine in NY wrote: "I feel like even more of an outlier than usual this year, because the books I've enjoyed the most so far are the books that most people are deeply disappointed in or DNFing ([book:The Shamshine Bli..."Well, if it helps at all, I can say that I always count on those commentariat members whose views differ from mine to help me see what I missed. So, thank you, in advance!
And, of course, you are always welcome to join the Contrarian Club that is the "'Idaho' Forever" Faithful. ;-)
Nadine in NY wrote: "I feel like even more of an outlier than usual this year, because the books I've enjoyed the most so far are the books that most people are deeply disappointed in or DNFing ([book:The Shamshine Bli..."That makes me happy because the discussions are always so much better when we don't all agree. And being convinced to see a book in a new light is one of the best things about the ToB.
Elizabeth wrote: "Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm not alone in feel..."I'm interested in the numbers breakdown for myself as well since I'm currently estimating based on memory. ;) Do you have the spreadsheet of previous year's books so I can make a quick tally like this too?
Alison wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "I remember a few years ago getting upset with people who didn’t love my loves (like Idaho! Sing Unburied Sing! That was my favorite year.) My feelings for them were so visceral, a..."Dang, I think this is also an issue for me. As I'm developing as a writer, I'm learning all the "rules" and tricks about strong and weak writing, which means I'm disappointed in various books I might have enjoyed before. The errors and weak writing/lack of editing stand out too strongly for me now. I guess the only upside to this is that I now have a greater appreciation for the fantastic books, since I can identify the various layers and techniques I might have missed before.
But the "jaded" and "wallowing in riches" elements are likely a factor as well. :)
Lauren wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm..."I don’t, I just looked the books up for each year and counted. (It was kind of fun looking back and remembering.)
The spreadsheet through ToB 2022 is on the main thread for this group. In a couple weeks, I’ll update it to add last year complete with stats. I’m always about a year behind.
Sooooo.... sorry in advance, but in case any of you missed these lists. For your consideration for 2025 ToB: 1 ) https://electricliterature.com/75-boo...
2) https://lithub.com/lit-hubs-most-anti...
3) https://themillions.com/2024/01/most-...
C wrote: "Sooooo.... sorry in advance, but in case any of you missed these lists. For your consideration for 2025 ToB: 1 ) https://electricliterature.com/75-boo...
2) htt..."
I've been browsing the Millions List - a little disappointing that it's only the first three months. Was anyone else surprised by how much of their list is Non-fiction this year//
Nadine in NY wrote: "I've been browsing the Millions List - a little disappointing that it's only the first three months. Was anyone else surprised by how much of their list is Non-fiction this year//"I actually prefer having more lists, that cover a shorter time period, vs one big list that covers a long time period. I completely agree I was very surprised how much NF. I even had to double check to be like "wait is this a specifically nonfic list" at one moment early on.
C wrote: "Sooooo.... sorry in advance, but in case any of you missed these lists. For your consideration for 2025 ToB: 1 ) https://electricliterature.com/75-boo...
2) htt..."
Once upon a time, I was having a productive day. That's all done with now.
Karin wrote: "I even had to double check to be like "wait is this a specifically nonfic list" at one moment early on...."yes!!! I double, triple, and even quadruple checked!!
Lauren wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "As I suspected when it dropped, this year's short list is generally more disappointing than any previous years I've been following the ToB. I'm glad I'm..."I don’t, which is why I only looked at 5 yrs. I went back to the Tournament archives…
C wrote: "I believe the Occupy book you don't want to remember is 'Overthrow' by Caleb Crain. :D"Yes, you are correct! lol
Lauren wrote: "C wrote: "I believe the Occupy book you don't want to remember is 'Overthrow' by Caleb Crain. :D"Yes, you are correct! lol"
I had blocked it from memory. SIGH.
Tournament of Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Frankenstein in Baghdad (other topics)Tyll (other topics)
Tell Me I’m Worthless (other topics)
Poor Deer (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
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Patrick deWitt (other topics)
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After a handful of satisfying reads, I’m stalling. I got 1/3 of the way through the McBride, and thought “I’ve read this already, but set ..."
Sometimes I'll look for podcast interviews with the authors of ToB books that don't appeal to me. I usually don't decide to read the book, but it does help me appreciate it, and feel like I at least have a decent acquaintance with it.
I'm being very selective about my ToB reading, and this year most of the books don't inspire me. But I did love American Mermaid (my sleeper hit of the tournament this year), The Guest, Chain Gang, The Bee Sting and Heaven and Earth. Auburn Conference was okay, DNF'ed Lost Journals, Shamshine Blind, and The Librarianist (I love DeWitt, but this felt twee and depressing to me - an odd combo!) The rest I don't feel much compulsion to read - maybe a few will feel more tempting after the tournament is over.