The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive #1)[August 16, 2024]

[Mitali]

Katie wrote: "Man. All of you will have finished book two before I've gotten around to completing this one ^^; I can't believe some of you finished before the BR even started! You guys are amazing!

Works been v..."

I'm in the same boat Katie, I haven't started the re-read yet. Will start this weekend. Crazy amazing readers in the group!

[Narilka]

Through Ch 59 (view spoiler)[YAY! Teft and Syl have finally gotten Kaladin on the right path with absorbing stormlight! So glad to see that moving forward and he's starting to experiment a little.

Less tahn 200 pages to the so hopefully the main convergence starts in short order. (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Ch 60- I found the plot! (view spoiler)[Seems we're in a "save humanity from the end of days" story. I think one of Dalinar's other visions pointed at this too but this latest one was most obvious about it. (hide spoiler)]

[The Raven King]

I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on purpose. She is deliberately written to be unfunny funny person.

[Choko]

The Raven King - Feyzan, I totally agree that the cringy humor is on purpose where Shallan is concerned. She is supposed to come off as a regular girl, but obviously there is a lot of mental stuff going on with her and she is covering that with humor, which is coming off wrong...

[Choko]

Narilka, That might definitely be the main plot, the question is, is it only humanity we need to save?

[Choko]

Quinn, re: Ch. 4 ... (view spoiler)[ I love the allusion to the Shadesmar Cryptics in the epigraph! Brandon had obviously planned on them being important to the story this early on! That is pretty cool!

I also think the spren are attracted to whatever they have affinity for, not causing it...

I love the geography of The Shattered Plains. I also hate how this war is being waged under false pretence. It was supposed to be for vengeance for the death of Gavilar, but now they are hunting and killing these poor beasts, who just want to live their lives.... It must suck your heart to be a substance everyone wants to use as currency or for powering devices...

The Ardents still have tremendous amounts of power, because they still shape the beliefs of all social classes, despite not being able to personally retain property or be politicians. They influence the people in power enough...I am not saying that all of them are interested in power, but those that are still will find a way to acquire it...

This chapter was also cool with how Kaladin was able to curtail his hatered for the slaver and control himself... And Syl! (hide spoiler)]

[Marie]

The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on purpose. She is deliberate..."

I like her and I don't find her humor cringy... I mean, I enjoy the same kind of humor/wordplay when talking with my husband lol. I do not just randomly use it with people I barely know, though, that's for sure 😅

[Choko]

I like her too. I just looorve Jasna and Navani as characters:)

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on purpose. She is deliberate..."

Dad Joke Shallan :D

I actually like Shallan the most in book 1... any dislike I show in book 1 on re-reads is residual run-off from my opinions in book 2-3-4, as her arc plays out (view spoiler)[with Dissociative Identity Disorder, and multiple dominant personalities (hide spoiler)] (that's a mega-spoiler, and you really shouldn't read it if you're a first timer)...

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on pur..."

I ckicked your spoiler before I read what you wrote after and now I dislike her even more lol I just found her POV chapters boring for the most part.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Now I feel like I have to reveal a bunch more spoilers to try and make you give Shallan a chance, Ann-Marie:

Gonna say a bunch of stuff in spoilers, for Ann-Marie, mostly for book 2 stuff, but probably later stuff too, to try and give some context: (view spoiler)[Shallan's childhood is alot worse than you might think, from hints in book one... Sanderson really skirted around details... the most egregious think was the brother's leg...

In book 2 you learn how physically abusive he was, and tangled up with the Ghostbloods... it was mostly to the brothers, but really shaped Shallan, and then there's the big secrets with the Shardblade she displayed and her birth mother, and other things...

So the Dissociative Identity and illusion magic plays into that, putting up a false front to the world and the corny jokes...

Shallan's Radiant powers fuel her worst tendencies, providing a way to cast illusions with her picture magic and take on personas and spy and stuff... and then it becomes a coping mechanism, until she has her spy persona, her Radiant persona, and her true identity starts to get lost in the jumble, until she hits a real crisis point during the climax of book 3...

Personally, it's one of those things where I appreciate what Sanderson is trying to do, but it makes it hard for me to love the character most of the time, when she's being self-destructive and risking the relationships she's building...

On the writing side, I think Sanderson recruited some actual DPD/DID beta readers to improve his writing of Shallan in later volumes, same way he has/had some neurodivergent beta readers for Steris characterization in Mistborn Era 2, I think (altho that was already good from the beginning because of Sanderson's real life college friend or somesuch)...

Back to Stormlight talk: For a comparison, I love Kaladin, but sometimes how dark he goes into suicidal ideation when things go bad for him can be too much for me, depending on my mood...

And Dalinar in the present is nothing like flashback Dalinar in his Blackthorn days... they all have their rough edges... that's basically the cornerstone of Cosmere magic... spren and other magic systems can't create Nahel bonds with people without deep psychological trauma... cracks in the soul that lets the magic seep in... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

I couldn't have said it better, Iain. As a person who struggles with bouts of depression because of PTSD, it gets too much to read Kaladin's down moments too... Shallan's coping mechanisms just become self destructive eventually and I can see how this could be bothersome....

[Narilka]

Choko wrote: "Narilka, That might definitely be the main plot, the question is, is it only humanity we need to save?"

No idea. Not enough info. 900+ pages so far and not enough info lol (view spoiler)[No idea if the Radiants and Heralds are actually gone or not. No idea if any more spren will be like Syl and find someone to pair with, though I think probably if they need to bring back old-style heroes to fight against the Devistation that's coming. No idea who or what is giving Dalinar his visions and if it/they are actually "alive" or just a spirit. No idea what the weird geometry heads are since they're mostly in Shallan's POV and not explored other than freaking her out so far though hinted at that the old king saw them. Or is it the current king sees them in shadows? No idea why we get other POVs in the Interludes other than as interesting world building that may or may not be applicable at some point. No idea where Hoid is off to. (hide spoiler)] This is a foundational book, as in laying the foundation for the rest of the series so that things can actually happen. Unless it's really long "slice of life" and my expectations have been completely off this whole time.

[Choko]

I am not sure about the old king, but the current one does for sure. I think this is what is making him so paranoid...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Alot of the biggest stuff, in regards to that, is saved for book 3 with Dalinar reveals, and book 4/5, I think... it's a throughline of the arc...

[Narilka]

The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on purpose. She is deliberate..."

For me, Shallan's wit comes across as forced or a person trying too hard. It makes me pity her rather than like her.

[Narilka]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Alot of the biggest stuff, in regards to that, is saved for book 3 with Dalinar reveals, and book 4/5, I think... it's a throughline of the arc..."

So is Book 2 also going to frustrate for a thousand pages? Is it more foundation laying? I find all the world building interesting but not enough to make the book unputdownable.

[Narilka]

I'm in Ch 62 (view spoiler)[Kaladin and crew have retrieved the Parshendi body they stashed and are about to start another charge with the bridge. My speculation is he's going to use that corpse to keep the Parshendi from shooting at his bridge crew since they don't like disturbing their dead. That he put Shen at the end of the bridge to not get upset shows he's figured out that the Parshendi people do revere their dead though differently than the Alethi. (hide spoiler)] Time to see if I'm anywhere close at all :D

[Ann-Marie]

I was not mad, you know I don't mind spoilers plus it was my own fault for being click happy! I absolutely see what you are saying about Kaladin pushing it with the dark but so far he is my favorite, I hope Shallon does grow on me as I continue :)

[Narilka]

Continuing Ch 62. Oh my, that was even better :) (view spoiler)[Kaladin wearing the corpse lol I didn't see that coming at all! This might be my favorite part of the book so far. Let's see what he pulls off - utter disaster or brilliant diversion. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Narilka wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Alot of the biggest stuff, in regards to that, is saved for book 3 with Dalinar reveals, and book 4/5, I think... it's a throughline of the arc..."

So is Book 2 also going to..."

I'd say things start happening, in book 2... things are set in motion by the end of book 1... the status quot of the past 5 years is broken...

[Ann-Marie]

I will likely be starting book 2 early same as this one. due to the length and also because I want to know what happens next! :)

[Narilka]

Timelord Iain wrote: "I'd say things start happening, in book 2... "

Thanks for the clarification. That works for me then.

Ch 62 was pretty awesome. (view spoiler)[Brilliant diversion it is. Now to see how the aftermath plays out. Even with the praise from Sadeas... No good deed and all that. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Narilka, this is about when the action starts.... That was a pretty awesome scene!

[Katie]

Mitali wrote: "I'm in the same boat Katie, I haven't started the re-read yet. Will start this weekend. Crazy amazing readers in the group!..."

It's good to know I'm not the only one Mitali XD

[Katie]

The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on purpose. She is deliberate..."

I'm in agreement with you there The Raven King~

[Choko]

Mitali and Katie, take your time! We will be here to chat:)

[Narilka]

I finished. That was a frustrating read with a terrific ending. I'm in for book 2 to see what happens.(view spoiler)[I am happy that I was right about Shallan killing her father. We'll see if her pov pans out better than Iain has indicated though she seems more the Machiavellian character at the moment. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Narilka wrote: "I finished. That was a frustrating read with a terrific ending. I'm in for book 2 to see what happens.[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Taravangian, huh? (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Timelord Iain wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

That and other questions.

[The Raven King]

Choko wrote: "The Raven King - Feyzan, I totally agree that the cringy humor is on purpose where Shallan is concerned. She is supposed to come off as a regular girl, but obviously there is a lot of mental stuff ..."

Yes, I agree. It feels like she is suppressing a lot of emotions. There is some mental stuff going on with her.

[Quinn]

Timelord Iain wrote: "The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on pur..."

I'm the opposite way, tbh. Shallan in book 1 is kinda bland imo, but I love the things Sanderson does with her in the later books. (view spoiler)[It can be hard to read sometimes, especially in Rhythm of War, but that's one of my favorite things about the Stormlight Archive. It doesn't shy away from the ugly sides of the main characters, and it allows you to see their journeys to overcoming their intrapersonal problems. I love peering into every aspect of Shallan, Kaladin, and Dalinar. It's messy, it's heartbreaking, sometimes it feels like the characters can't help themselves. But they strive for that change in them despite the heartache, and I think that's brilliant. (hide spoiler)]

[Mitali]

Timelord Iain wrote: "The Raven King wrote: "I don't know why people dislike Shallan. I am enjoying her chapters and story arc better than kaladin's. I think people dislike her for cringy humor, but I think it is on pur..."

Well said. I read Book 1 about 10 years back and it's my first re-read now. I remember being annoyed by Shallan a lot - but you're right that's not the case for Book 1. In fact, I was/am quite intrigued by her character and specially the passion for art/sketches. I love what Sanderson did with her character arc in the later books, but at the same time I find the character itself grew to be annoying.

Kaladin has been a favorite from Book 1 - Book 4. That hasn't changed for me, through the highs and lows. I even have a tattoo of the "Life before ...." LOL.

[Mitali]

Choko wrote: "I think I am like Marie, when it comes to massive tomes. I love the slow building of the story..."

Me too! And I'm loving this re-read. I've barely read 150 pages as I started last night and kept getting lost in replays of the book 1-book 4 storyline in my brain. I'll have to switch it a bit off so I can finish the book :D

[Choko]

Mitali, the problems of a re-reader:))) If we are here, that means we like it enough to come back to it, and that is awesome:)))

[Katie]

Choko wrote: "Mitali and Katie, take your time! We will be here to chat:)"

<3<3<3

[Ashley]

Coming in super late to the party! I'm enjoying this book a lot, but it's my first time reading so I'm taking it slow and wanted to get fully immersed before jumping into the chat. Now that I'm 75% in, I guess I'll take bite :)

Chapter 57 (view spoiler)[ [I'm really about only halfway done with ch.57 but didn't wanna ruin any parts for anyone that didn't start the chapter]
Okay! I have known for a while that Kaladin had some magic in him, but was not expecting "bindspren." The spren are still pretty foreign to me, and its just not really feeling like that is the right characterization for him. Surely there has got to be a whole lot more going on with him. Like, how does the whole 'I don't get hit with arrows and I'm a natural-born leader' thing come into play? I don't know how I feel about Kaladin's own Radiants theory, but I don't think I know enough about the Radiants at this point to speculate how they come into play. Personally, I was getting some Lashing vibes from the scene where he binded the stone to the wall - but I truly don't have any other guesses.

Now, I am trying to put together what the connection between Kaladin and Shallan is. I can bet these two won't be isolated from eachother the whole series, but what will the connection be? And will they complement or oppose each other? I thought they would complement each other originally, but after reading a bit of the Shallan hate, I'm going to have to reconsider that haha.

Shallan's photographic-like abilities seem so unlike all the other "powers" of the other characters. However, she is seeing things, like Dalinar, albeit in a very different way. This, I think, is why I suspected Shallan of being a protaganist. Dalinar certainly seems to be since, and there is something powerful trying to get his attention with these visions. Similarly, something has caught Shallan's attention. But are illusions coming opposing sides? Maybe. But I guess I'm just rambling at this point. (hide spoiler)]

Looking forward to getting more involved in this discussion now and speculating with you all!

[Choko]

Ashley, I think this is the second strengest part of these books. The first being the world building and the second, the complexity of the characters, be it protagonists or antagonists. They all have flaws, they all have ultimately understandable reasons for the actions they take, no matter if they make sense or are completely unreasonable... Brandon is so good at plotting the characters far ahead and eventually we can turn back and see how he has been guiding us to the upcoming resolutions...

I will wait for you to finish and see what questions you still have, and we can get into those:)

[Marie]

Just chiming in to say I have finished the book and absolutely loved it but I am now on vacation so probably will only write my final thoughts after I return.

[Choko]

Have fun, Marie!:)

[Marie]

Choko wrote: "Have fun, Marie!:)"

Thanks, it flew by, already returning tomorrow.

[Ashley]

Choko wrote: "Ashley, I think this is the second strengest part of these books. The first being the world building and the second, the complexity of the characters, be it protagonists or antagonists. They all ha..."

That would be great! Looking forward to chatting with you. I've read just a few chapters since posting last night and I already have so much new information to fuel my theories, and of course, more questions haha

[Choko]

Not everything is answered in this book, but it lays down the base for all the eventual answers...

[Narilka]

It's a foundational book more than anything. That said, speculate away :D

[Quinn]

Chapter 5

(Reader beware, spoilers for the entire Stormlight Archive series/some Cosmere)
(view spoiler)[

In chapter 5, the header is composed of 2 sets of the Herald Pailiah, patron of the Order of Truthwatchers. It’s implied before becoming a herald that she was a scholar, giving a direct tie to Shallan in this chapter attempting to become a scholarly ward under Jasnah. It’s also possible in this book that Shallan met Pailiah in disguise as an Ardent, though this is disputed.

The epigraph for this chapter mentions three events: The Night of Sorrows, The True Desolation, and the Everstorm. Only the True Desolation and the Everstorm have occurred so far in the series. The True Desolation truly begins at the end of this book when Talenel is forcibly returned to Roshar beyond his control, though we only see major movements during the Battle of Narak in Words of Radiance when the Everstorm is summoned.

One thing I didn’t catch on first reading is just how bisexual Shallan is. Sanderson didn’t intend it at first, but after readers caught how he subconsciously wrote Shallan’s thought on Jasnah, he decided to make it canon. That’s awesome.

Due to how many buildings are built into stone, I wonder how often, if at all, Shardblades are used for construction. Taravangian claims that Kharbranth doesn’t have a Shardblade, but considering what he’s like, who knows if that’s even true.

When Jasnah soulcasts for the first time, Shallan describes hearing a single pure note. Could this be a Rhythm, or perhaps it’s just a hint that Shallan can already hear into Shadesmar or something. It’s most likely that latter, as Rhythm’s weren’t important until the 4th book, but it would be cool if the seeds were planted this early.

Often, Shallan describes blinking and taking memories for use in her art later. This isn’t just something unique to her. This is a Radiant ability called a Resonance, and each order of Radiant has its own Resonance. Lightweavers’ Resonance is increased mnemonic ability. This can manifest in many different ways, but for Shallan, it allowed her to recall a scene with perfect accuracy by taking a Memory of it. Windrunners’ Resonance is an increased number of squires compared to other Orders. Resonances for the others Orders have been speculated but not confirmed one way or the other, though we do know what some Resonances AREN’T.

Resonances also aren’t just tied to the Radiant Orders. Resonances are gained by anyone who has more than one Invested Art (aka power system). Thus, Twinborns from Mistborn, those with both Feruchemy and Allomancy, have Resonances. Hoid probably has a lot of Resonances. He’s too OP, it’s not fair.

Concepts presented:
- The Night of Sorrows: This event is first mentioned in the epigraph of this chapter, though we see it later referred to in Dalinar’s visions by the voice of Honor. What exactly this event refers to is unknown, but it most likely speaks of a turning point during the True Desolation.
- Tormas, Nashan, Niali the Just, Nohadon: Shallan lists off a few names of philosophers she’s read, but the only one we know more than a name is Nohadon. He is the author of The Way of Kings, the namesake of the book, and the oldest preserved text in Roshar’s history. Nohadon isn’t his real name, rather a title given to him by Vorin ardents. Nohadon was a surgebinder, considered special among all surgebinders. This led to the theory that he is a Bondsmith, tying a link to Dalinar who, being inspired by The Way of Kings, unlocks his own potential as a Bondsmith. The Stormfather, who would later be bonded to Dalinar, directly praised Nohadon.
- Placini, Gabrathin, Yustara, Yustara, Manaline, Syasikk, Shauka-daughter-Hasweth: After Shallan, Jasnah lists off even more names of philosophers that Shallan has never read before. Unfortunately, they aren’t important enough to have any information about them.
- Proving Day: Despite being a seemingly important event in Roshar history, barely anything is known about Proving Day. The event in question is the day when the Heralds were chosen from among the Humans in Roshar. It’s implied that the tasks were extremely difficult, if not straight up impossible.
- Soulcaster/soulcasting: Soulcasting is the form of surgebinding that involves using the Surge of Transformation to turn one material into another. Non-Radiants can soulcast, though it requires the use of a Soulcaster, a special kind of fabrial composed of 3 gemstones that correspond to one of the Ten Essences. One can use Soulcasters to transform objects into one of the three Essences. A person able to use all three gemstones is rare, however. It’s more likely to only be able to use one gemstone. Despite the “betrayal” of the Knights Radiants, Vorinism considers them holy due to their usefulness. In Vorin countries, the only ones publicly allowed to use Soulcasters are ardents. Using Soulcasting long-term starts to turn the user into the material they most frequently transform objects into. These individuals are called Savants, and it seems to affect both body and mind.
- Fabrial: Fabrials are gemstones that use light and spren to perform supernatural tasks. The art of fabrials have been lost for many centuries, though recently in the series the study and development of fabrials have begun to increase rapidly. There are many different types of fabrials that I will point out when we see them, though I don’t remember any special ones in this book. The gemstone fabrial reacts differently depending on the metal used for the frame surrounding the gem. The reactions more or less parallel the Allomantic powers from Mistborn. Zinc and Brass strengthen and dim the spren’s power. Bronze alerts the user of objects, entities, or phenomena occurring nearby. Pewter is used to express a certain attribute depending on the spren. Tin will cause nearby attributes to diminish. Iron and Steel will pull and push substances away.
- Taravangian: When Tarvangian was born, the surgeon made it public that he would have diminished capacity. Though that wasn’t true, the reputation would follow him his whole life. At one point he would meet the Herald Battar, in disguise as an ardent named Dova. This altercation would lead him to go to the Nightwatcher and gain “the capacity to save humankind” from Cultivation. At this point in the book, he has already created the Diagram and formed the Silent Gatherers to study Death Rattles. While he isn’t necessarily smart every day, it’s possible everything he does from now on is part of his plans, so looking at his words and actions closely will be important going forward.

I’m ranking the Way of Kings chapters with a completely scientific system I’ve coined the W.I.T. Scale. You can find my rankings here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

(hide spoiler)]

[Paula]

I am late but i was finishing a humongous book and now i am ready to tackle this 1200 pages book. I remember some things from my first read but i dont remember a lot of things, which is exciting

Until part 1 (including the first three interludes) (view spoiler)[ I know people find Shallan annoying but i actually like her, although right now her parts are more about knowing the world. The parts where she mentioned her fathers death made me remember some things but i still dont remember much.

Kaladins chapters were sad but i am glad he now has at least some drive, to try to make their lives a little bit better.

Regarding the interludes, the three strangers looking for Hoid, are they characters from some of sandersons other books?

Reading about shallans brother made me wonder how he got hurt and at the same time made me remember something of Helaram (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Paula wrote: "I am late but i was finishing a humongous book and now i am ready to tackle this 1200 pages book. I remember some things from my first read but i dont remember a lot of things, which is exciting

U..."

3 Men from Interlude: (view spoiler)[They are one of the characters from Elantris, the tall black dude from the White Sands comic (part of Khrissala's group (Bane?... Khriss writes the Ars Arcanum appendices), and one of the crew members from Kelsier's heist crew in Mistborn (hide spoiler)]

[Paula]

Iain (view spoiler)[ do you know which Elantris character? Have never read white sand but I know about Khriss. Mistoborn too? Who? (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Paula wrote: "Iain [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Demoux from Mistborn, Galladon from Elantris, Baon from White Sand...

Demoux wasn't actually crew, he was in the militia... the one Kelsier used his Allomancy on to win a fight and inspire the rebellion mid-book... he was an Atium Misting, so couldn't really use his power until later books when they were trying to burn up all the atium in existence for plot reasons...

Galladon's one of the main characters in Elantris, the dude that explains the realities of being "dead" to the MC of the story... the sidekick, basically?... it's been awhile since I read Elantris, but it sounds vaguely familiar...

And Baon, I was close with Bane :D... I know the littlest about White Sand... I'm glad Sanderson is finally writing a novel there in the next few years... (hide spoiler)]