Amadis of Gaul - Dec BOTM

[Diane]

Review thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Diane]

About This Book

In the long history of European prose fiction, few works have been more influential and more popular than the romance of chivalry Amadis of Gaul. Although its original author is unknown, it was probably written during the early fourteenth century. The first great bestseller of the age of printing, Amadis of Gaul was translated into dozens of languages and spawned sequels and imitators over the centuries. A handsome, valiant, and undefeatable knight, Amadis is perhaps best known today as Don Quixote's favorite knight-errant and model.

[Diane]

1. Character Development:
How does the character of Amadis evolve throughout Part One? Discuss his strengths, weaknesses, and any conflicts or challenges that contribute to his development as a knight. Are there moments that particularly stand out in shaping his character?

2. Chivalric Code and Morality:
Explore the representation of the chivalric code in Part One. How do characters in the story adhere to or deviate from the ideals of chivalry? Consider specific actions, decisions, or conflicts that highlight the moral and ethical values associated with knighthood.

3. Role of Women and Courtly Love:
Analyze the portrayal of female characters in "Amadis of Gaul." How are women depicted in relation to the theme of courtly love? Are there instances where the female characters challenge or conform to traditional gender roles? Consider the impact of romantic relationships on the plot.

4. Fantasy Elements and Magical Realism:
"Amadis of Gaul" incorporates elements of fantasy and magical realism. Discuss the role of magical beings, enchantments, and other fantastical elements in shaping the narrative. How do these elements contribute to the overall atmosphere of the story, and what might they symbolize?

5. Comparisons to Other Chivalric Romances:
"Amadis of Gaul" is part of the broader tradition of chivalric romances. Compare and contrast its themes, characters, and narrative style with other works in the genre that you may be familiar with. How does "Amadis of Gaul" both conform to and deviate from the conventions of chivalric romance?

Questions complements of ChatGPT

[Gail]

Question #1
Here is the ChatGPT answer:
"Amadis of Gaul" is a chivalric romance, and the character of Amadis undergoes various developments throughout Part One of the story. Here are some aspects of his evolution:

Birth and Upbringing: Amadis is born under mysterious circumstances and raised in isolation by the knight Gandales. This early part of his life contributes to his noble and virtuous character.
Adventures and Achievements: Amadis embarks on numerous adventures, facing challenges and adversaries. His prowess in combat and his adherence to chivalric ideals lead to various victories, earning him a reputation as a valiant knight.
Love and Romance: Amadis experiences intense love and romance, particularly with Oriana. His love for her becomes a central theme in the story, and his commitment to her plays a significant role in shaping his character.
Tragedy and Suffering: Amadis faces moments of tragedy and suffering, including the revelation of his true parentage, which adds complexity to his character. His ability to endure and overcome these challenges reflects his strength of character.
Loyalty and Honor: Throughout Part One, Amadis demonstrates unwavering loyalty to his friends and allies. His commitment to the code of chivalry and his sense of honor contribute to his evolving character.
Self-Discovery: Amadis undergoes a process of self-discovery, learning more about his own identity and the consequences of his actions. This self-awareness contributes to his growth as a character.
Overall, Amadis evolves from a skilled and honorable young knight to a more complex and experienced figure. His journey involves not only physical prowess in battle but also emotional and moral development as he navigates the challenges of the chivalric world depicted in the story.

Okay, I will personally answer the rest of the questions and they will not be nearly as intelligently written:

Q2: The interesting thing about the Chivalric code is that it focuses on honor, being morally upstanding and humble before God. Women are to be defended and honored. However, the knights spend quite a bit of their time chopping each other to pieces. Honor is often viewed as something that is won in battle. Often if one wins in battle, then one was favored by God and must be an honorable man. Also, both the women and the men often get into trouble by promising to do something before they know what it is they are supposed to do or why. These "boons" or promises must be adhered to in order to maintain their honor but it gets very tricky as often the promises turn out to be about vengeance. Having to avenge someone simply because you told a beautiful women that you would give her this boon seems to set up quite a bit of the dramatic conflicts in the book.

Q3: First of all, there are quite a few women in the book that have a mind of their own and that play a motivating part in the plot structure. Although they are largely loved for their beauty, as opposed to their wisdom or wit, the women often have real power to effect outcomes which is very refreshing. They are also honored for their family relations, and their loyalty. Also, physical love often takes place because the woman desires it.

Q4: The magical elements are treated very much like all the other dramatic moments. Giants exist in this world, as do many loyal and/or nasty dwarfs. There is a soceress and sorcerers and there are many young women and old hermits that know the secrets for healing. God is also very much in evidence, as is a firm belief in a Christian heaven and a burning hell. The overall impression this creates isn't that Amadis lived in a fantasy world, there are no fairies or dragons, but that the world back then simply had a few more giants in it and that the black arts were often used to effect positive outcomes when battles or jousts weren't turning out the way that the villains wished. In all, these elements reinforced the nature of good and evil in this world.

Q5: Other than the wonderful Don Quixote which was written much later to satirize the chivalric romances I really have never read much else from this time.

[Kristel]

I’ve finished with the first book of Amadis of Gaul. I am listening to it on Librovox.
Amadis is evolved from the unknown, to the known and also as a great knight to the queen. And all that Gail has said. Well said, Gail.

Other thoughts after book one. There is a whole lot of chivalry and knight stuff. It’s easy enough to listen to but am I invested in it? Probably not. Thank goodness for Librovox.

The recording is by various readers so some are better than others and some male and some female so there is not a continuity in the “voice” but the story doesn’t seem too greatly affected.

Onward to book 2.

[[deleted user]]

Kristel wrote: "I’ve finished with the first book of Amadis of Gaul. I am listening to it on Librovox.
Amadis is evolved from the unknown, to the known and also as a great knight to the queen. And all that Gail h..."

Kristel I am doing Librovox as well so far this is reminding me of Le Morte de Artur which I have a large illustrated copy on my bookshelf. Like that book I find it best in small chunks as a lot of the Knighting stuff in one go does get repetitive.

I agree the changing narrators are not really impacting the story.

[Sheila]

I’m a bit confused. Amadis isn’t on the 1001 books to read list. Why are we’re reading it as the book of the month? Am I missing something?

[Kristel]

It is on the list. It was added in the 2018 edition. We use every edition of the book. Are you new here? Welcome. Hope you find a friendly place here.

[Kristel]

. Character Development:
How does the character of Amadis evolve throughout Part One? Discuss his strengths, weaknesses, and any conflicts or challenges that contribute to his development as a knight. Are there moments that particularly stand out in shaping his character? this was a complete bore. Amadis does grow as a knight. I am sure his childhood was a disadvantage .

2. Chivalric Code and Morality:
Explore the representation of the chivalric code in Part One. How do characters in the story adhere to or deviate from the ideals of chivalry? Consider specific actions, decisions, or conflicts that highlight the moral and ethical values associated with knighthood. This is interesting in that in this time of chivalry, manners were adhered to unlike today when you sneak up and kill totally innocent not soldier peoples.

3. Role of Women and Courtly Love:
Analyze the portrayal of female characters in "Amadis of Gaul." How are women depicted in relation to the theme of courtly love? Are there instances where the female characters challenge or conform to traditional gender roles? Consider the impact of romantic relationships on the plot. Woman have little say over their own lives. Knights try to gain favor with royal women.

4. Fantasy Elements and Magical Realism:
"Amadis of Gaul" incorporates elements of fantasy and magical realism. Discuss the role of magical beings, enchantments, and other fantastical elements in shaping the narrative. How do these elements contribute to the overall atmosphere of the story, and what might they symbolize? I really did not pay close attention and did not particularly see this

5. Comparisons to Other Chivalric Romances:
"Amadis of Gaul" is part of the broader tradition of chivalric romances. Compare and contrast its themes, characters, and narrative style with other works in the genre that you may be familiar with. How does "Amadis of Gaul" both conform to and deviate from the conventions of chivalric romance?

This must be a forerunner of the Chivalric romance. Not my genre at least this one wasn't. Way too long.

[Rosemary]

I finished book 1 on Librivox today, and clearly I'm going to run out of month before I get through much more, so I will stop there. I enjoyed it, and if I had nothing else to listen to, I would have happily continued... but I do have other audiobooks, and it feels like time to move on.

Character development:
I guess the character of Amadis does develop a little bit, but he seemed to be born the perfect hero, and he never took a step wrong that I recall.

Chivalric code and morality:
Seems like it's okay to go around killing just about any man as long as you do it on a horse with a sword and are completely open about it. On the other hand, you have to show restraint with the ladies, even if they throw themselves at you, and sneakiness and lies are frowned upon.

Role of women and courtly love:
I read that this book is unusual in that most of the love affairs are between unmarried couples, where in for example Arthurian legend the women are usually married to someone else (viz Lancelot and Guinevere). There is a surprising amount of illegitimacy which is semi-accepted. The women usually have strong ideas about whom they want to be involved with, and if the men are honourable they will accept a "no", but fathers have a lot of power over their daughters when it comes to marriage.

Fantasy elements:
I actually didn't think there were fantasy elements at all, given that dwarfism is real and most people believed in witchcraft and sorcery on some level at the time this was written. There's no situation where somebody waves a wand and a coach turns into a pumpkin, it's just the kind of use of herbs and spells that most people probably thought really worked.

Comparison with other chivalric romances:
See above re Le Morte d'Arthur - although I don't think I've ever read that itself, only other versions of it.

[Amanda]

Alrighty, finally have some book clubbing time after some heavy working and holiday prep months. I listened to the full audiobook earlier this month and found myself really enjoying it. It was interesting to see how an authentic chivalric romance either contains- or doesn't contain- the tropes of the genre present in its parodies and modern attempts at the form. To answer the questions:

1) Others have mentioned Amadis' isolated upbringing already, and I found that across the full saga he becomes more successful of a knight, yes, but also more worldly and understanding of how to work situations from a social perspective.

2) The book overall contains the chivalric idea of 'honoring' the purity of women by indulging in a certain set of procedures which may seem romantic, without doing anything their code would consider 'untowards'. This is evident in the keen attention- but not real pursuit- of the princesses and ladies that Amadis meets in the story. This is particularly notable in his faith shown to Oriana, even in the face of her jealousy to another lady. He technically does break this code though when they get frisky without being married and having a child out of wedlock. There is also the preservation of the conditions of 'honorable battle' he upholds (no underhanded assassinations or backstabbing, having to meet your opponent head on with equal awareness are chances), his fighting on behalf of Oriana's father also expresses loyalty to both his lady and his lord. I also find it interesting that there is a reference to the lost original version having Amadis' son duel him for dishonoring his mother (the out of wedlock consummation) and killing him, which Montalvo changes to make a happy ending between them (something more romantic but less faithful to the chivalric code).

3) Romantic relationships (particularly that of Oriana and Amadis) does pervade the plot: him fighting for her father, his years of madness when she casts him off, the conception of their son, the fact he becomes a errant knight when her father's attitude sours against him are all related tot heir relationship. While none of the female characters seem to truly deviate from expected gender norms (the women don't fight, are not financially independent, and have specific social scripts they are allowed to follow), we do see some fully fleshed out female characters who are actors in the story, and not just recipients of male actions (admittedly, sadly, some more modern lit doesn't even get this far). Oriana chastises Amadis as she pleases, she (fully consensually) consummates her relationship with Amadis in passion (unmarried) even though she is not socially sanctioned to, and I loved the bit with Urganda the witch, who is mysterious but also has power that Amadis needs help with to best the evil wizard.

4) I felt like this one was something of a 'light fantasy' or yeah, magical realism, in that there is some magic and giants, but many parts of the book could be anthologized as knight stories without any fantasy. I enjoyed this mixture of the two, and the giants and witches/wizards were some of my favorite parts. Many chivalric romances contain fantastical elements and I think it plays into the mystery of 'faraway lands' that would have existed in the world at the time. I mean, there are versions of Marco Polo's real travels to Asia that have illustrations of Asian people as monsters without heads and weird limbs, dragons, and men with dogfaces. Some of this are literal interpretations of him calling one people he encountered 'dog-faced' and describing some large Asian lizard species as dragons (the no head monsters are not written in the book and come from the assumption of the illustrator that Asian people could not be people the same way Europeans were).

5. I've read some of the original Arthurian tales, and got to study Sir Gawain and the Green Knight in university as an exemplar of the genre (the movie is excellent as well!). The fantasy elements are shared (giants, sorcery, and dragons appear in one or both of these). Keeping faith with oaths and the consequences of 'unchivalrous' trysts feature in all three. I love how these themes were parodied in Don Quixote as well with the fantastical 'giants' being a misunderstanding of what he actually saw, and his insistence of a strong chivalric sense of honor and duty undermining him having normal social interactions and causing trouble.

Overall, while it did drag out with some repetitive elements in places, I enjoyed this one and gave it 4 stars. I would keep it on the list considering (I think) it's the only pure authentic chivalric romance on there.

[[deleted user]]

1. Character Development:
Amadis is always a good and moral character a turning point is his falling in love, winning the island and then finding his love doubts him. I listened on librovox so I apologise for the vague names as they really didn't stick with me.

2. Chivalric Code and Morality:
Knights fight knights, knights defend women, knights knight knights and there is plenty of all this going on.

3. Role of Women and Courtly Love:
Romance makes for the quests that the knights carry out. The challenge to be the most true lovers and the most beautiful maidens. There is a woman who knows the future and can change her appearance who moves the plot on and doesn't conform to traditional roles. The courtly women tend to be beautiful and obedient the exception being the love of Amadis who has sex and a child outside of marriage and for that point so does Amadis' mother.

4. Fantasy Elements and Magical Realism:
They are a natural part of the story and not treated as anything special bearing in mind this was written in a time when such things as dwarves, giants and sorcerers were probably widely accepted as fact.

5. Comparisons to Other Chivalric Romances:
It is very much in line with Le Morte d' Artur and pretty much conforms to the conventions found in there. It aslo conforms with most books I read regarding the Arthurian legend. I didn't notice anything that didn't conform with the traditon.

[Pip]

1. The development of Amadis’ character: He is born secretly, out of wedlock, is left in a basket to float out to sea, is rescued by the knight Gandales, who raises him by the name Child of the Sea. When he later falls for Oriana when appointed as her squire, he dare not reveal his passion for her, because, despite the predictions of Urganda the witch, he does not know who he is and feels unworthy of her. This passion spurs him on to become a knight worthy of her, so he becomes the epitome of chivalry, defeating all comers, but with courage and honour. Despite discovering his heritage he still feels unworthy of Oriana and defeats diverse characters before finally meeting up with Oriana to finally confess their love for each other. Amadis, unfailingly humble, still feels unworthy of her love and remains chaste for much longer than his little brother, Galaor, who is a contrast to Amadis’ perfection.
2.Chivalry originally meant armed and mounted fighters, but evolved to mean the gallantry and honour expected of knights. They had to fight fair, usually for the honour or hand in marriage of a beautiful lady, never display fear or pain, and be magnanimous in victory. Amadis displays all of these traits, winning every single battle, whatever the odds.
3. Women have some autonomy. Amadis’ mother, Elisina, enjoys her fling with King Periòn of Gaul, and successfully hides her pregnancy from everyone except her trusty maid. Oriana loves Amadis, but expresses jelousy when he goes off to rescue another damsel in distress.
4. Urandra is depicted as an entrantress who predicts the future, a common device in romantic stories. She gives him a magic lance.There is also a giant who kidnaps Galaor, Amadis’ brother. There is also a dwarf, Ardian, who becomes Amadis’ servant and a sorcerer called Arcalaus, who plots to take over Great Britain, and capture’s King Lisuarte and Oriana. Amadis and his brother, predictably, come to the rescue.

[Pip]

5. I realise that I know very little about King Arthur and his knights, or any other medieval literature, so can’t comment.