Which edition should I use for page count?

[KmarieD, Moderator]

I have the hardcover of The Seaside Library checked out from my library. However, I will end up listening to most of it on my drive at Thanksgiving. Normally I would link to the audio in my task, since the majority was read that way. But when I went to check for page count, I have a question.

Following the normal procedure, I look at MMPB, then PB, then HC. However, there is a MMPB edition listed but has a publishing date of 2024. Would I still use the MMPB edition since it is there, or move on to the PB version, or use the HC version which I actually have and will read for the part I haven't listened to?

[Kristina]

I would use the MMPB. It’s just to establish that the book meets SRC page length rules. So, you would link to the audiobook and author and then say you did an audiobook and then link to the MMPB.

[Lucy-Bookworm, Moderator]

Kristina Marie wrote: "I would use the MMPB. It’s just to establish that the book meets SRC page length rules. So, you would link to the audiobook and author and then say you did an audiobook and then link to the MMPB."

Yes, I agree - the MMPB is generally just to confirm length etc.
The only hiccup occurs if you want to use if for a page number challenge in which case I would suggest that if you read more than 50% hard copy then you use the actual edition you read, but otherwise use the MMPB as it gives a good idea of the length of the book in standard print.

[KmarieD, Moderator]

Thanks. It is for one of my three books in task 50 and I list the page counts to show that they add to more than 750 but i wasn't sure if an unpublished edition counted.

[Marie (UK)]

I am not sure where this question really goes but it is perhaps here.

I have been doing the challenge for around a decade. When I first started e book editions and their page counts often bore no relationship to the HB / PB editions. Today i think their accuracy is much improved and wonder whether insisting on converting to HB/PB each time is really necessary.

I have lost count of the number of books I have ordered from the library to fit a page count requirement only to find they send me a different edition with a different page count. So i have to start searching again.

I might be the only one that thinks this but just thought I would put the question out there.

[Dee]

honestly i HATE the page count tasks for that reason - give me all the cover color tasks over a page count task any season of the year

[Robin P]

I agree, it takes a lot of time to research if the book has multiple editions. And as Marie pointed out, you can’t always specify a certain edition from a public library. Thus the task is harder for those who aren’t able to purchase books, or don’t choose to.

[Susan A]

Perhaps as a compromise we could move to always using the MMPB edition for page count regardless of the edition you read . I like this because it means it means that everyone that uses a particular book is using the same information. I would like usin the default edition more because it is less clicks when searching

Or allowing library users to use the MMPB edition (for physical books) like audiobook users do, thus eliminating the surprise page count


I no longer read physical books so this is not a problem that would have occurred to me. Based on the problem you are having, I think this does require a change

[KmarieD, Moderator]

I don't know if this is coming up due to the issue noted in the technical help thread. But it is good timing. The mods are having a discussion about how to deal with that issue and I think this question needs to be part of that discussion. Please keep giving us feedback on this issue.

[Marie (UK)]

KmarieD wrote: "I don't know if this is coming up due to the issue noted in the technical help thread. But it is good timing. The mods are having a discussion about how to deal with that issue and I think this que..."

I brought this question up because I noted a suggestion based on page numbers / publications dates in the ideas for summer tasks. I didn't want to post it there because it feels like criticism for the person who gives time to put forward their ideas.

I have never had so much trouble with page numbers as I have this season. I have had to re apply books to different tasks or discount them altogether because the edition I get from the library isnt the one that I expected and to be fair if you read a kindle with 192 pages and then claim it for a task requiring 230 pages (because you have to claim the MMP) you are not really doing the task as it is meant.

I think there are lots of reasons that page numbers are inaccurate - on book i have just started A Good Hanging and Other Stories this edition - states 288 pages on GR but is actually only 253 pages - the rest is a preview of Rankin's next book. I would suggest that not everyone reads on to the end of this preview.

[Dee]

I have never had so much trouble with page numbers as I have this season. I have had to re apply books to different tasks or discount them altogether because the edition I get from the library isnt the one that I expected and to be fair if you read a kindle with 192 pages and then claim it for a task requiring 230 pages (because you have to claim the MMP) you are not really doing the task as it is meant.

I'd observe a problem with this is that sometimes depending on the service you use - the page numbers for kindle/ebook vary - its especially bad if i'm reading a book via hoopla which auto adjusts pages count depending on font size (amazon tends to be more fixed) - i don't know if that is a huge issue nowadays but something to consider

[Susan A]

I don't want to see page count tasks and requirements go away. I think we need to come to some sort of system that works.


The easiest way to go is picking one standard. Everyone uses this standard edition (which would need to be defined by the moderators & group) regardless of the edition you actually end up reading.

This would eliminate the problem of borrowing or paying for a book only to find out it isn't what you thought it was and doesn't actually work.



For searching purposes, using the default edition as the standard I think would be the easiest. There will always be some problems no matter what standard is picked. Sometimes the default has no page count, or I guess could be large type.




We discussed a bit about the color tasks a little while ago and I was one of the ones who wanted a break. I don' think those need to go away entirely...it's the really high percentages that are a problem to me. My opinion is 50% is hard enough.

[Marie (UK)]

Susan A wrote: "I don't want to see page count tasks and requirements go away. I think we need to come to some sort of system that works.


The easiest way to go is picking one standard. Everyone uses this standa..."

Can I just ask "the default edition" is that the one that come's up first on GR page? If so isn't that sometimes an E-book?
I like the idea of using a standard but if we go with default we will have to get rid of / adapt the rule about electronic editions

[Susan A]

Marie (UK) wrote: "Susan A wrote: "I don't want to see page count tasks and requirements go away. I think we need to come to some sort of system that works.


The easiest way to go is picking one standard. Everyone ..."

Yes, the one that comes up when searching.

Yes it would require changes. I would like to see the ebook page verification thing go away. It definitely made sense 10 years ago, but not so much anymore.

[Robin P]

Classics are a problem for editions because there can literally be hundreds. Sometimes the first one that comes up is a graphic novel, an abridged edition, a children’s version, an ebook, or an audiobook. A standard like using the first mmpb is at least consistent.

And yes, for some books, they contain previews of the next book. In nonfiction, there can be 50-100 pages of notes, indexes,bibliography, etc.

[Kathy KS]

From the view of a professional librarian:
I have no real problem with standardization (which is actually kind of what we have now for ebooks/audiobooks/large print); however, I would prefer the first listed PRINT copy, because of the problems that still exist with some ebook page counts.

That being said, here's a couple of other observations to consider at the time...
1) This may seem heretical, but Amazon's listed page counts (for all formats) are notoriously off. Library catalogers know this and it's caused issues when cataloging pre-pub books for years. At least one post above used a good example for this.

2) As a GR cataloger (this is using oftimes different rules from library catalogers) it seems that WorldCat is still considered rather a more "gold standard" source for this information.
Personally, I prefer these numbers, when applicable.
Library cataloging rules have said to use the last PRINTED page number of the book. This usually aligns with WorldCat. Differences arise, sometimes, because of the ways different publishers page their books. Some include that bonus short story in the page numbers. Others leave off page numbers there. Other extra materials are handled in a variety of ways, too. So, the WorldCat (or your library's) cataloging might not show how many pages the story covers, but that last PRINTED number in the volume. I can live with this number; at least it's an easily remembered, standardized way to compare lengths of books.

Just a little background for those interested, and preaching to the choir for some. I have no problem with the current system, but I have also been surprised by different editions received on interlibrary loan; this includes cover pictures, too! But it's worth discussing...

[Susan A]

.

[Dee]

Our default rule for audio etc for page counts now is ‘most popular mmpb’ and if mmpb doesn’t exist then paperback

That would likely be the easiest route to go

[Kathy KS]

Susan A wrote: "From the point of view from a librarian, I can see why you want the most correct page count. However, as a non-librarian, but someone who has been doing challenges on goodreads for 10+ years, I'm n..."

I'm not sure if you were trying to respond to me, Susan, or to the group as a whole. My post was merely made to highlight some of the problems already inherent in GR listings. I don't think I made any recommendation that included the mental gymnastics you have encountered in your example.

As I mentioned at the end of my post, and, as Dee later posted, I have no problem with keeping the current default rules. I read all types of formats: print, ebook, audiobook, large print, etc. The current rules seem to make things pretty standard, regardless of which I read. (oh, and I've been participating over ten years, too.)

[Susan A]

I misunderstood your post. I apologize for the whole post. I'll delete it as it seems to be taking your words out of context.

[Kathy KS]

Susan A wrote: "I misunderstood your post. I apologize for the whole post. I'll delete it as it seems to be taking your words out of context."

It's all good... Happy reading!

[Trish]

Dee wrote: "honestly i HATE the page count tasks for that reason - give me all the cover color tasks over a page count task any season of the year"

I'm the other way around - I find way too many covers which looks one colour but when I put them into TinEye, they're another. White and grey especially. I'd certainly like a 50% limit on colours.

That said, page count ones might be easier for me, as most of the time, I'm reading on kindle. Because of that, when I'm figuring out which books I want to read, I have the top MMPB or PB up on the screen for reference for the page count.

[JennRenee, Moderator]

So is the consensus I am getting here is for the page count.. we should use a standard edition for all page count tasks instead of the one read.

if this is the case what would be the standard. We have always used the MMPB in the past for audiobooks. I find more books have a paperback listed than an MMPB. Should it still be the highest rated of that book?

[Dee]

i like filter by paperback - then most popular (regardless of language); if not pb then MMPB and hardcover

[Marie (UK)]

i like PB edition as the filter

[Kathy KS]

Personally, I'd just leave it as is.

Otherwise, just tell me the standard and that will be that. (Easiest for those upset with the current system would probably be "most popular", but then we'd have to have the caveat that ebooks, audios, and large print don't count).