Did REH invent "sword and sorcery"?

[Skallagrimsen]

With due respect to Robert E. Howard, did he really invent "sword and sorcery"? How is The Ship of Ishtar (1924) by A. Merritt not S&S?

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Skallagrimsen wrote: "With due respect to Robert E. Howard, did he really invent "sword and sorcery"? How is The Ship of Ishtar (1924) by A. Merritt not S&S?"

That's a good question. Since I'm not scholarly enough to have read a lot of old texts myself, I'll rely on my online research via Wikipedia to respond here.

Wikipedia's Sword and Sorcery page names The Ship of Ishtar as an example of early S&S, along with The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save For Sacnoth by Lord Dunsany. You could also look at Gertrude Hall's "Garden Deadly" as an example of early S&S.

The true roots of S&S go back even further to mythology such as Homer's Odyssey, Beowulf, Arabian Nights, and other folklore.

REH is probably known as the "Father" of the genre not for inventing it, but for being the first (modern) writer to write voluminously in the genre. The other modern examples above were limited to a single story. REH's work is far more extensive.

Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_a...

[Vincent]

What a great question!

I think it depends on how you define "Sword & Sorcery," to be honest. Nowadays, it tends to be conflated with fantasy, but sword & sorcery was termed to describe exactly the type of heroic fiction REH started. All sword & sorcery is fantasy, but not all fantasy is sword & sorcery.

I've read The Ship of Ishtar. To me, it is a fantasy story, but not quite sword & sorcery. What keeps it just barely outside of that circle? Well, for me, while The Ship of Ishtar is darn close to Sword & Sorcery, it keeps a strong footing in the real modern world, which makes it fantasy for me. The reader is unsure of whether it happened or not in any kind of reality. However, that story, as well as others written by Merritt, absolutely influenced REH and other early S&S writers (Indeed, Merritt was one of the authors in the round-robin story, "The Challenge from Beyond," along with REH and HP Lovecraft).

But RJ makes a wonderful point, and it's a point echoed in Brian Murphy's Flame and Crimson: A History of Sword-and-Sorcery. In that book, he asks, what is the first heavy metal song? There are several contenders (The Kinks, "You Really Got Me"; Blue Cheer, "Summertime Blues"; and Led Zeppelin, "The Immigrant Song") but the honor goes to Black Sabbath for most music scholars. Why? Because while all those earlier songs introduced elements of heavy metal, all of them were outliers and not typical of those bands' output. It was Black Sabbath that put all of those elements together and made it their typical output. They were the flash point that started heavy metal. Even though other bands put out songs that in hindsight are basically heavy metal, it was Black Sabbath that started the genre in earnest. Thus Black Sabbath is the father of heavy metal music.

And thus it is with Robert E. Howard. Merritt (and others) may have occasionally touched on Sword and Sorcery, but it was REH who took it and ran with it. Few call Merritt an influence today, but many were inspired by REH to pick up writing in a similar vein. Just as Black Sabbath is the start of heavy metal as a genre, REH is the start of sword & sorcery. Indeed it was his tales that sparked the creation of the name of that sub-genre (the term "sword and sorcery" was coined by Fritz Leiber In the May 1961 issue of the fantasy fanzine Amra, to describe Howard and the stories that were influenced by his works).

So, yes, there are earlier tales, and several of them influenced REH, but it was REH that sparked it off. He took their outliers and made it his oeuvre.

That is a great question. My answer isn't definitive, and is definitely opinionated. There are plenty of people that would call those earlier songs "heavy metal," and there are people who would call Merritt's work the first Sword & Sorcery. So there is room for disagreement and discussion and I love that. I hope more of the readers here jump in with their thoughts!

[Vincent]

As another example, you could use Bram Stoker. Often styled the Father of Vampire Fiction, it wasn't because he was first - it's because he was the one that created a sensation.

https://www.legacy.com/news/culture-a...

It isn't always about being first. It's about being the most popular influence early on in the game.

[Skallagrimsen]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. The heavy metal anthology was particularly illuminative, as well as appropriate. Sword and sorcery is the heavy metal of literature.

[Philip]

This video might help frame the conversation. My "definition" of S&S at least…

https://youtu.be/EAiDXGa6knA?si=eZL_E...

[Vincent]

Decent definitions, but where do you stand on REH's status as the Father of Sword and Sorcery despite the existence of prior S&S-style stories?

[Clint]

Excellent discussion