What are we reading? 25/09/2023

[Tam]

AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "my points were fairly mild and not made in an offensive way, maybe i should have not mentioned that Russell brand goon!"

I am quite frankly baffled that your comme..."

I hear what you say, but I feel that you are talking about an ideal world, that isn’t going to happen any time soon. If the Guardian opened itself up, to being truly open, it would cost them a lot. Modding is expensive, and whilst the actual conditions on which a post is deleted remains opaque, then they don’t have to actually deal with it. If they did have to deal with it, it would open them up to being challenged, and this would take up far more modding time, and further expense to the Guardian… and who knows what else in a time of increasing challenges by the ‘Professionally and politically ‘offended’!’

[Tam]

In other matters the mini sproglet is now on his way, since this morning, so we are expecting an arrival some time today… ‘Oh the times they are a-changing’… We are keeping our fingers metaphorically crossed!… and hoping for the best…

Take care out there…

[Gpfr]

Tam wrote: "In other matters the mini sproglet is now on his way, since this morning, so we are expecting an arrival some time today… ..."

Ooh, all the best, Tam, to all those involved :)

[Gpfr]

Russell wrote: "Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus, just published.

This is a piece of well-done popular fiction with a purpose. It starts off light and, you think, forgettable, and becomes both more serious a..."

I've now finished this and I'm quite sad to have done so. I could happily go on much longer reading about Elizabeth and Madeline and Six-Thirty the dog (https://www.instagram.com/p/ChhvS7ZIO...) ...

[Gpfr]

From time to time, I like to revisit Dorothy L. Sayers and have just read The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club.
When and how did the aged General Fentiman die? Armistice Day, and the shadow of WWI lies long.

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "it might be to stop a load of brand admirers swamping the book section"

Am I the only one here who has no idea who Russell Brand is?

I know I could easily Google the name, but as with the pop cultural references in Sally Rooney, I prefer to let the context speak for itself (or not, as the case may be). I take it that he's someone many people loathe, but who also has some rabid supporters (a characterization which may describe 80% or more of public figures these days).

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Propaganda: The Formation of Mens Attitudes by Jacques Ellul(1965) is a well translated work from the famous French Protestant sociologist and philosopher.

I unco..."

Be careful what you ask for. I will attest that the ultra-left is just as bad as the ultra-right -- both very much my way or the highway! Here in Seattle we are heading into both budget season which has grown a lot and the possibility of at least 4 and hopefully more moderate members of the City Council in the new year (post November election). I have my fingers crossed that residents will see some progress getting results for money spent for a change.

Rant over as the ultra right in DC sends us to a government shut down.

[MK]

If anyone here is interested in how the US Justice System works, I recommend a subscription to - https://joycevance.substack.com/

It can be either free or paid. The post I received today is about the Georgia RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) like indictments (which I hope will end up with Trump in a suit to complement his hair) with the fact that one of the lowest level persons charged seems to have flipped.

[MK]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "it might be to stop a load of brand admirers swamping the book section"

Am I the only one here who has no idea who Russell Brand is?

I know I could easily Google the name, but as wit..."

I get emails from a couple of local bookstores announcing which authors will be at the store that month. Recently, I've noted that I haven't a clue who these people are and am thinking of just unsubscribing from them because why bother?

Toward that end some here might want to take the time to read this NYT gift link - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/30/op...

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "it might be to stop a load of brand admirers swamping the book section"

Am I the only one here who has no idea who Russell Brand is?

I know I could easily Google the name, but as wit..."

he WAS a slightly trying british celebrity, known for his love of the ladies and hard drugs. in his youth he was funny in small doses,

[AB76]

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Propaganda: The Formation of Mens Attitudes by Jacques Ellul(1965) is a well translated work from the famous French Protestant sociologist and philosop..."

i loathe both extremes, in practice their insane policies have led to mass murder in many nations, over many decades. in modern democracies they both are keen to unsettle the status quo but without any real vision. The Italian communists under Berlinguer in the 1970s were the closest to a sensible move by ultra-left parties, i have yet to see anything comparable from the ultra-right. (i'm quite a fan of Berlinguer, who died too young)

[giveusaclue]

MK wrote: "Be careful what you ask for. I will attest that the ultra-left is just as bad as the ultra-right -- both very much my way or the highway! "


To be honest I don't think there is any difference in practice.

[Tam]

Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "he WAS a slightly trying british celebrity, known for his love of the ladies and hard drugs. in his youth he was funny in small doses,"

Ah, well .. in my youth I was also funny in small doses, but without the ladies or drugs (related to @MK's NYT link, I might say that in my old age I'm catching up with the drug use, though strictly of the non-recreational kind).

[MK]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "he WAS a slightly trying british celebrity, known for his love of the ladies and hard drugs. in his youth he was funny in small doses,"

Ah, well .. in my youth I was also funny in sma..."

Where's that LIKE button?

[giveusaclue]

Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "he WAS a slightly trying british celebrity, known for his love of the ladies and hard drugs. in his youth he was funny in small doses,"

Ah, well .. in my youth I was also funny in sma..."

that made me laugh Bill, what age are you now then, am wondering who the oldest in the TLS is?

[AB76]

Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

great news...new life!

[Bill]

Earlier this week I finished The Destructive War: William Tecumseh Sherman, Stonewall Jackson, and the Americans, a book to which, for its meditations on and record of General Sherman's thoughts and the actions they motivated, I might give the Nietzschean subtitle "How One Philosophizes with an Army".

I've found myself thinking about this passage from the book's penultimate chapter:

… Samuel Foster Tappan wrote to Sherman … warning him that commanding the army during the wars against the Indians would damage the reputation he had won in the Civil War. … “We make the Indian an outlaw for no crime,” Tappan said, “and then compel our army to enforce that atrocious decree of outlawry – which posterity will of course condemn. Upon my honor I do not envy you – better be the victim than the instrument of oppression.” Hardly any remarks could have grated on Sherman more. Tappan was saying that future generations would not thank the army for its role in opening the west to settlement – the accomplishment in which Sherman took most pride. And Tappan was proclaiming the moral superiority of victims, a notion wholly at odds with the understanding of history and the vision of the future Sherman preached. To Sherman victims were not admirable. They were weak or deluded or obsolete and therefore about to be crushed. Sherman had feared this fate for America during the early part of the Civil War. Not until he had begun to see that the North could learn how to subjugate the rebels had he gained confidence. If the North meant to win, he had written in August 1862, “we must begin at Kentucky and reconquer the country from them as we did from the Indians. It was this conviction then as plainly as now that made men think I was insane.” The proposition that subjugation was necessary did not strike him as eccentric or immoral; it was self-evident. Sherman did not see how one could honor a rebel or prefer to be in the place of a defeated Indian. Twenty-two years [later] … Sherman still remembered Samuel Foster Tappan incredulously. In one of his last speeches he said that Tappan “was simply an Indian lover. I think he loved an Indian better than himself.” (397-98)

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "what age are you now then, am wondering who the oldest in the TLS is?"

I'm 68 - earlier this week I read a NYT article about the expected demographics of the audience for "The Golden Bachelor" in which a network executive was quoted as saying:

“We have an affiliate lead-in that has a median age around 67 or 68, which is smack dab in the middle of that traditional sort of definition of what a baby boomer is,”

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "what age are you now then, am wondering who the oldest in the TLS is?"

I'm 68 - earlier this week I read a NYT article about the expected demographics of the audience for "The Golden ..."

68, not that old then Bill, life begins at 60 so they say. In Strachey's Eminent Victorians he describes Cardinal Newman as an old man at 63, Back then it might have been, i dont think it is now

[Robert]

Gpfr wrote: " From time to time, I like to revisit Dorothy L. Sayers and have just read The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club.
When and h..."

And the Bellona Club is jammed on November 11 with war veterans... World War I vets, and the veterans of many previous wars.

[[deleted user]]

Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Lovely news, Tam. Congratulations to the parents.

[[deleted user]]

Gpfr wrote: "Russell wrote: Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus..." ...I've now finished this and I'm quite sad to have done so. I could happily go on much longer reading about Elizabeth and Madeline and Six-Thirty the dog ."

Wouldn't we all! I've taken to reading out bits to my other half, and sent off a copy to my sister-in-law for her birthday.

[Robert]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "what age are you now then, am wondering who the oldest in the TLS is?"

I'm 68 - earlier this week I read a NYT article about the expected demographics of the audience for "The Golden ..."

I am waiting in joyful hope for my 71st birthday. Well, fairly hopeful. Covid shot next week!

[CCCubbon]

AB76 wrote: "Propaganda: The Formation of Mens Attitudes by Jacques Ellul(1965) is a well translated work from the famous French Protestant sociologist and philosopher.

I uncovered it via a clear out of my fr..."

It may be simplybecause you mentioned Russell Brand by name while he is under investigation and called him a nut. If you had just written ‘conspiracy theorists’ or something like that it may have stayed. ….. but maybe not!

[CCCubbon]

@Tam
So happy for you - a long a happy life for the new one.

[CCCubbon]

The oldest?
Think that must be me at 85! Didn’t think I would get this far.

[Gpfr]

Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

So pleased to hear that — congratulations to all!

[Gpfr]

MK has often mentioned Michael Pearce's Mamur Zapt series, set in Egypt before WWI. I've finally read and enjoyed the first, The Mamur Zapt and the Return of the Carpet, after having had it for quite a while.
The Mamur Zapt is a British official in charge of security and intelligence. I was intrigued to know what was this returning carpet — one has to wait until nearly the end to find out :)
This reminds me of Priscilla Napier's memoir, A Late Beginner, a Slightly Foxed paperback, about her childhood in Egypt which I enjoyed a lot. She left Egypt for the last time in 1921.

[AB76]

CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Propaganda: The Formation of Mens Attitudes by Jacques Ellul(1965) is a well translated work from the famous French Protestant sociologist and philosopher.

I uncovered it via a clear..."

good point CCC

[AB76]

CCCubbon wrote: "The oldest?
Think that must be me at 85! Didn’t think I would get this far."

you are the "Mother" of TLS CCC, in english parlimentary tradition and isnt it great we span all these ages, not sure who the youngest is, it cant be me at 47 surely,maybe it is?

[giveusaclue]

CCCubbon wrote: "The oldest?
Think that must be me at 85! Didn’t think I would get this far."

Hi CCC. lovely to see you back. Hope things are going better for you now.

[AB76]

Baghdad Diaries 1991-2002 was ultimately a bit of a disappointment, Al -Radi was a lively writer, an artist and a character, the section on the bombing of Baghdad in 1991 was the strongest part.

However there was no glossary for a panoply of characters who it seemed the publishers thought the reader would know (all with nicknames) and some of the silence on the Kuwait invasion jarred, i expected a diary of an educated writer to see the problems that Saddam caused for his nation but there is very little of that(but a lot of blame heaped on the USA). In her defence, there is a strong and mischievous wit that defines the diary and that is probably aimed at Saddam in subtle ways.

the diary ends though with the second act of the USA, under Dubya Bush (which i never supported, the second gulf war), starting to loom. Al Radi hopes there is no war, sadly she died of luekaemia at 63 in 2004

[giveusaclue]

My review of


I have enjoyed all of the series that I have read before this one. Oh dear, I was really disappointed. A lot of gobbledy gook about the occult and totally unbelievable plot. And it might have been me but I felt there were also errors in the book. But perhaps the author confused himself and not just me.

Must get back to some history soon!

[CCCubbon]

giveusaclue wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "The oldest?
Think that must be me at 85! Didn’t think I would get this far."

Hi CCC. lovely to see you back. Hope things are going better for you now."

Thanks, it is difficult - a temporary easing.

[Tam]

giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he will be named Ivan, which is the Russian equivalent of John. I think Daria is pretty determined on the name. We are alas unfortunately geared to the knowledge that the only Ivan we know of is Ivan the Terrible. This has led so far to him being renamed Ivan the Tolerable… by us. But as he will be brought up multi-lingual, and with Irish nationality as well, we can call him the Irish equivalent, which is Sean… Also Russians are very keen on nick names and the nick name for Ivan is Vanya, so we may well end up referring to him as ‘Uncle Vanya’…

[Tam]

Thanks for all your good wishes for the mini sprog, we will actually be meeting up with him tomorrow after Daria leaves the hospital. It is also Ollie’s birthday as well, so we can amuse ourselves by watching Ol learn how to change a nappy on his birthday… They have asked for advice on stuff, but I fear my knowledge is a trifle on the rusty side….

[CCCubbon]

Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he will be named Ivan, which is the Russian eq..."
Hope you don’t mind a word of warning. When my eldest child was born my mother in law refused to accept our choice initially because she didn’t like the name. I remember being very offended. She wrote a note to me mentioning ‘ …my dear little Stuart’ which was not his name . Maybe kinder just to accept whatever name they choose which I am sure you will.

[Tam]

CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he will be named Ivan, which is th..."

Oh we have… I believe it is always up to the parents to decide the names and the rest of the family to accept!… I just wish I hadn’t watched that documentary (a long time ago) on Ivan the Terrible!… Though as Ol, being an historian, has pointed out, he was not particularly over the top, in the dictator role, for his times… History is littered with those with too much power, and resultant insecurities….

And I am told that Ivan is a very popular name in Spain, and so will perhaps help him to adapt to a Spanish cultural upbringing. The Spanish are incredibly family orientated. It is lovely to see such large family groups here, going out for a meal together, and all looking like they are really enjoying each others company…

My comments are somewhat tongue in cheek, really. My grandfather always called me Peggy, as I, apparently, attached a clothes peg to the back of his suit, when he was on his way to attend an event at Buckingham Palace…

[MK]

Tam wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he will be named ..."

For Ivan, please google Ivan Doig. An odd name combo as I think Doig is Scottish...?

[AB76]

MK wrote: "Tam wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he wi..."

great writer, recommended to me by someone on TLS, might have been LL

on that note, is anyone in touch with LL is she oK? Another absent voice is Georg?

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "68, not that old then Bill, life begins at 60 so they say. In Strachey's Eminent Victorians he describes Cardinal Newman as an old man at 63, Back then it might have been, i dont think it is now"

During the past year, I seem to have attained a sort of “male reading climacteric” in that I have completely lost the desire to read any fiction. I can still conjure up the enjoyment and rewards I got from my fiction reading in the past, but I’ve just lost the “taste” for reading fiction at present, and don’t know whether or not that sense is recoverable.

I’ve read that men, in general, read much less fiction than women. At used book sales, most of the older men, by far, would gather around the History table, perusing works of military history. I mention this while noting that I am now reading my second consecutive book on the US Civil War, though I think there’s little chance that I would completely give up reading on my favorite subject, music, in favor of accounts of Shiloh and Vicksburg.

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "68, not that old then Bill, life begins at 60 so they say. In Strachey's Eminent Victorians he describes Cardinal Newman as an old man at 63, Back then it might have been, i dont think..."

it does seem that men prefer non-fiction and are less enthused by novels, as i have been fond of both, i differ from most men i think. i cant quite put a finger on why men prefer the factual rather than fictional

[MK]

I was late getting to my shower last night as I wanted to finish listening to The Secret Hours. I won't say much more here as I know Clue has it on her e-reader. Just this - familiar characters and a prequel of sorts. I think I'll keep it on my player for a while in case the desire to re-listen comes up.

I am glad to say that my misgivings for my bedtime paperback, Death Walks In Eastrepps (early eye-roll for Colonel Blusterish retired Army character) have been allayed as several miscreants enter the Norfolk coast scene.

The Dress Diary of Mrs Anne Sykes is my after dinner reading (and I'd better get to it as others are waiting on the hold list at the library). I'm looking on it as a kind of distaff to Simon Heffer's recent works, as it is a story of a middle class woman in the Midlands told through her wardrobe. I came across this book via a zoom/youtube session - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oky0i...

Of course the fact that much detective work was involved after receipt of the diary is enough to spur me on.

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "68, not that old then Bill, life begins at 60 so they say. In Strachey's Eminent Victorians he describes Cardinal Newman as an old man at 63, Back then it might have been,..."

Am giggling as I think that a testosterone test might show why some are more prone to non-fiction, especially of the military variety. Surely, some researcher could get a grant to study that. 😁

[giveusaclue]

CCCubbon wrote: "Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Tam wrote: "Sproglet has arrived safe and sound… Yay!…"

Brilliant news Tam, so pleased for you all. Has he got a name?"

Probably he will be named Ivan, which is th..."

Seems there are/were a few rather entitled mothers in law about. Should have started calling her by a horrible name.

[Robert]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "68, not that old then Bill, life begins at 60 so they say. In Strachey's Eminent Victorians he describes Cardinal Newman as an old man at 63, Back then it might have been, i dont think..."

Orwell recounted that he saw the same thing in his days at a private lending library. Men wanted either acknowledged trash or material that was dry and technical. Most middlebrow English fiction was women's territory.

[scarletnoir]

It's interesting to see the discussion about women reading more fiction than men - especially as I am therefore not typical - I'm a man, and read fiction almost exclusively (I may give reasons later). Given my scientific and academic background, of course I tried to see how well founded this claim is. (I don't take things on trust, usually.) It appears to be a well founded idea:

A poll released (in 2007) by The Associated Press and Ipsos, a market-research firm, found that the typical American read only four books last year, and one in four adults read no books at all.

A National Endowment for the Arts report found that only 57 percent of Americans had read a book in 2002 a four percentage-point drop in a decade. Book sales have been flat in recent years and are expected to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

Among avid readers surveyed by the AP, the typical woman read nine books in a year, compared with only five for men. Women read more than men in all categories except for history and biography.

When it comes to fiction, the gender gap is at its widest. Men account for only 20 percent of the fiction market, according to surveys conducted in the U.S., Canada and Britain.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/s....

According to Nielsen Book Research, women outbuy men in all categories of novel except fantasy, science fiction and horror. And when men do read fiction, they don’t tend to read fiction by women, while Taylor claims that women read and admire male novelists...https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

These are but two of very many articles available online... I haven't looked at any in-depth academic studies on the topic, but I assume they must exist.

For myself - I read (books) for several reasons, including:
1. entertainment - if it's boring I bin it;
2. insight - into how other people think, and negotiate circumstances which we may or may not have to confront;
3. information - for example, on historical events or other cultures.

I don't have the interest or the patience to read lengthy tomes about this or that war, or this or that general; however, if a novel introduces some factual material about a real-life character, and if it interests me - then I'll follow it up and learn a bit of history in a piecemeal fashion. For example, recently reading books set in India has made me aware of a number of incidents the British would rather forget (and not just the British, come to that). The books also situate the lifestyles of Indians, and especially Indian women, in an interesting fictional context. Reading a non-fiction text on the subject would be far less involving - IMO.

In the past, I've learned a good deal about some of the worst Nazi atrocities from Philip Kerr's 'Bernie Gunther' series, and about the lifestyle in Nazi Berlin from David Downing's fictions.

From 'True Grit' by Charles Portis, I became aware of the terrorist raids which took place during the American Civil War - the Lawrence massacre/Quantrill's Raid - no doubt well known in the USA but not so much on this side of the Atlantic... and so on.

So, you see... I like to pick up and follow odd bits of information as and when I become interested. It is anything but a methodical approach, but does lead to a wide (if not deep) knowledge of all sorts of stuff, which suits me fine. Reading the right sort of fiction can stimulate such investigations.

To conclude: my non-fiction reading consists of the types of investigations I mention, in addition to newspaper and other articles... rather than books.

[scarletnoir]

Tam wrote: "Thanks for all your good wishes for the mini sprog.."

I'd like to join my good wishes to Ivan (if that is confirmed as his name)... there is, of course, a famous fictional character - Ivan Hoe - who I am surprised to find is not a Scot (as I had assumed) but an Anglo-Saxon! It pays to check...

Anyway - Scot or not, long may his lum reek!