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I Wouldn't Start from Here
I share the dislike of prologues. Featuring characters I don't yet know and events that have no immediate relevance, a prologue is usually more of an irritation than a successful introduction.
I generally use prologues and epilogues as a means of setting a tone of sorts. I kind of like them!
Having read all those views in that post I do believe I'll keep on self-publishing for a while yet!
I've read books where all of those 'don'ts' worked.Sounds more like a list of pet peeves than proper writing advice to me.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "I've read books where all of those 'don'ts' worked.Sounds more like a list of pet peeves than proper writing advice to me."
absolutely agree Patti. I guess it goes back to the "what makes you such an expert?" thing.
It seems to me that Literary Agents are probably looking for the next Fifty Shades of Grey, the next Hunger Games etc as opposed to the next Grapes of Wrath, Ulysses and stuff.
Ah well. I'll keep tapping away and pressing that old 'publish' button for as long there is wine in the corner shop and a moon in the sky!
Very wise, Stu. Whenever I see such lists of comments by agents or publishers I get a vision of a literary ogre with big boots stamping on any spark of originality. Still don't like prologues though. ;)
B J wrote: "Very wise, Stu. Whenever I see such lists of comments by agents or publishers I get a vision of a literary ogre with big boots stamping on any spark of originality. Still don't like prologues thoug..."Hah! I guess I may just tag on the prologue for Elysian Wonderland to the first chapter. Keeping the epilogue though!!!
I'm not a fan of prologues either. I generally just skip them when reading a book.
Some good advice there. Most of it applies to the rest of the book too! A few others that I've heard ...Starting a book with a character waking up.
Writing in the first person and having your main character introduce himself/herself by either looking in the mirror or reading a letter addressed to them. "Ah, a letter for Fred Smith ... that's my name!"
I like prologues. So there.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "I like prologues. So there."Indeed. Where would Up Pompeii have been without its prologues? Humph.
I'm not too keen on prologues. Often they seem to be totally disconnected from the story, and I get to the end of the book and wonder why they were there. I have been known to skip over them if I am in an impatient mood.
Well, I'm going to get around all of this by starting with chapter 7.That'll fool them.
I'm going to write a book with no chapters. And no paragraphs. Just a wall of text. I might leave out punctuation as well. And why bother with spaces in between the words. You'll all read it, right?
I've got one with no words. It's my next one. Watch me go and spoil it.
Is it the one about what men know about women?
Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "Is it the one about what men know about women?"Oh, I've read that one.
It taught me everything I know.
Stuart wrote: "It seems to me that Literary Agents are probably looking for the next Fifty Shades of Grey, the next Hunger Games etc..."Okay, Stuart; make your next book "Tawdry in Tollesbury." An innocent country girl stands up to tyranny but becomes distracted after discovering that bondage isn't all that bad...
Some of this is just fashion. The modern "approved" writing style is to start the action part way into the story (at an interesting bit) and then to drip-feed back story into the narrative like a parent smuggling vegetables into a teenager's supper.And that's all very well, but it can leave you wondering who the hell all these people are. I've read some books where I've got several chapters in before the author has told me who is who and why we are here. Some of Iain M. Bank's science fiction is like that. I love his books, but by heck some of them are hard to get into.
I don't mind a good prologue as long as it is ... a "good" prologue. I think the real problem is that prologues are often a sign that the rest of the book is going to be predictable and clichéd.
I would hazard a guess that 90% of prologues are written by people who haven't yet figured out how to weave a back story into a narrative. And that probably means that they haven't figured out other stuff too.
The remaining 10% of prologues are there because it's the best way to tell that particular story and to hell with the "no-prologue" critics.
Or maybe it's 99% and 1%. Opinions vary.
I agree, Stuart. Prologues can set the tone or, as I see them, give a key piece of information as to why the characters in chapter one behave as they do.And Will, you got there before I did. "Some of this is just fashion. The modern "approved" writing style is to start the action part way into the story (at an interesting bit) and then to drip-feed back story into the narrative..." And I think this fashion has come about because of TV adaptations needing to capture the viewer before they turn over to another channel. Other reasons, too, of course, such as today's busy lives have so little time 'to stand and stare'. We're often fed on bullet points in our working lives.
I suppose Chandler's Law still holds, "When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand."
I admit that my novels never open with the main character. But they do open with an action scene, or at least a body count, No point in boring the reader straight out of the gate - they might put the book down, and that would be no good. No good at all.And I never call it a prologue, because the scene is always integral to the story, even if it's not immediately obvious. And there's a rumour going around the internet that Americans tend to not read prologues cos they're "boring and pointless". (having read a few prologues in my time, I'm quite sympathetic towards that notion)
So. Chapter 1: Bang. (often literally). get them hooked, keep them hooked, that's my motto.
Erm yes. My first line is...'The outer door slammed open, and a helmet clattered loudly against the opposite wall. '
Wouldn't it be great if we could search back on our kindles, copy n paste, and then discuss passages?One day soon, I hope.
This topic keep reminding me of how amazing Shaun's opening line was.
I wanna paste it in here, dammit.
'People are predictable. That's what makes them easy to kill.'Something like that. And it's stayed with me for what? Five years?
Aw, I do miss Frankie Howard's 'the prologue'. Admittedly, I've gone for the straight into action approach. it made so much sense after watching a TV adaptation of the Arabian Nights, when a lowly street performer says to Sherherazade 'As I walked home from the market the other night, I came face to face with Death,' (Ish, don't quote me on that). For me, there's nothing more exciting than hoping your reader gets hooked, so you can reel them in. Perhaps it is just the current fashion, but it has its merits.
Just make sure, if you're gonna grab your audience by the lapels, you don't let them wriggle loose.Me, I'd rather feel myself surrending to the grip.
Perhaps it's twee, but I've always found an action start like a glimpse of ankle, or a hint of well placed cleavage. It gives you an idea of what might be available further down the line, without making any promises.
Ah. So Gaff writes Victorian porn. Cool.:D
Have you ever come across a book called Beatrice? It was written by a Victorian lady that was all but sold into "bondage". Phew, it was steamy, even for me!
On ho. Patti's off again. Just nobody mention squid.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beatrice-Vict...This isn't the version I own (either in paperback or kindle), but it looks like a number of people have got hold of it and put out different versions. Put it this way, Fifty shades is like playschool compared to this, but it somehow manages to retain it's humanity and sympathy for the author.
Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "On ho. Patti's off again. Just nobody mention squid."Squid? I think I'm a bit late to the party to have heard about that GL.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Ah. So Gaff writes Victorian porn. Cool.:D"
Don't think I could even attempt Victorian porn Patti:
The artery in her neck throbbed to the rhythm of the waltz as he eyed her hungrily - has to be the biggest pile of steaming camel turd ever. I forget where it came from, but I remember thinking the book would have been more interesting if I'd stuffed it up my ... nose. I was going to say nose!
G.J. (Gaff to my friends) wrote: "Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "On ho. Patti's off again. Just nobody mention squid."Squid? I think I'm a bit late to the party to have heard about that GL."
You haven't lived until you have heard Patti talk about squid porn...
Just to warn you. Don't google it.
Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "Just to warn you. Don't google it."But ... That's like a big red button with a neon sign saying "do not push"!
On your head be it. I take no responsibility...
Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "On your head be it. I take no responsibility..."On second thoughts, it's probably wise to heed a warning like that.
Wise man. You don't want to get involved with all that sticky mucus and stuff.
I'm not a sucker for it, no. Right, it's pumpkin time and the horses are turning into mice. Time to get some sleep I think.
G.J. (Gaff to my friends) wrote: "Patti (baconater) wrote: "Ah. So Gaff writes Victorian porn. Cool.:D"
Don't think I could even attempt Victorian porn Patti:
The artery in her neck throbbed to the rhythm of the waltz as he eye..."
Interesting heartbeat there: boom-cha-cha boom-cha-cha... ;)
G.J. (Gaff to my friends) wrote: "Gingerlily - Elephant Philosopher wrote: "Just to warn you. Don't google it."But ... That's like a big red button with a neon sign saying "do not push"!"
"What happened?"
"A giant sign lit up, with the words 'Do not press this button again!'"
(the late great Douglas Adams)
http://thewritelife.com/the-worst-way...
A fair few of them make me cringe too.