[Closed] Fixing series(?)

[Gergő]

Hi,

these 3 books are in a series, but it doesn't appear on any of the pages of the books:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

They have the same title, can it be the problem?
Could you add the subtitles? (I'm not sure that's the correct term in English.)

For book 1:
"1. könyv, melyben hőseinket egy eleven halott temetésére hívják"

For book 2:
"2. könyv, melyben hőseink nyomról nyomra, meg néha pórul járnak"

For book 3:
"3. könyv, melyben hőseinket gyakrabban töri ki a frász, mint szeretnék"

(The quote marks are not part of it.)

Also, I've taken photos of the books:
1:
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/Y7rrvU8s...

2:
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/F2RBUOB0...

3:
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/a4J6uFxq...

Thanks

[Sandra]

Done.

Thank you for the information & covers.

https://www.goodreads.com/series/3754...

Please check to make sure I've done everything correctly.

[Gergő]

Hi Sandra,

thanks, the series is fixed now, but the titles are incorrect!

Maybe, you were misled by the covers.
The title is "EzoPara" for all the books and the rest is the subtitle.
And the numbers are part of the subtitle, not just the numbering of the books, that's why I used the quote marks.
Also, "könyv" and "melyben" shouldn't be capitalized.

I took a photo of one of the title pages:
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/1lVIIKU3...

So the correct titles should be (IMHO):

EzoPara: 1. könyv, melyben hőseinket egy eleven halott temetésére hívják

EzoPara: 2. könyv, melyben hőseink nyomról nyomra, meg néha pórul járnak

EzoPara: 3. könyv, melyben hőseinket gyakrabban töri ki a frász, mint szeretnék

since Goodreads uses the colon to separate the title from the subtitle.

[Sandra]

I took the capitalization from the covers. But I can change that if you think its better.

For series names we don't put that first here on GR. It goes at the end in brackets. And I created the series, so you can see the link on the book pages.

[Gergő]

Omg, please, look at the photo I attached if you don't believe me.
You completely ruined those titles!!
They make no sense this way!!
Covers are not an appropriate source for bibliographical information.

[Gergő]

Maybe the MARC record helps:
https://opac.rfmlib.hu/WebPac/Corvina...

So again:
EzoPara is the title for all 3 books. It's not the title of the series (in a bibliographical sense).
And the numbers are part of a sentence (the subtitle), not just the numbering of the books.
Without them, it makes no sense grammatically.

[lethe]

Gergő wrote: "Omg, please, look at the photo I attached if you don't believe me.
You completely ruined those titles!!
They make no sense this way!!
Covers are not an appropriate source for bibliographical inform..."

Sorry, but in Goodreads we get the title information from the cover. That is because we can see the cover, but in most cases we do not have access to the title page.

And please don't exaggerate. A librarian is trying to help you, so you could at least stay polite.

[Gergő]

OK, I am sorry.
Just please correct it, because now it is much worse than it was originally.

I hope WorldCat is an acceptable source for you:
https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=se%...

Btw, the name of the series is "Ezopara könyvek".
And "EzoPara" is the title of the books, so please put it back.
Now the title says something like "Book, In Which the protagonists....." which make no sense in itself... it is only a subtitle and meaningless without the number.

[Sandra]

Thank you for your apology. Much appreciated.

Looking further into this matter.

[Gergő]

https://help.goodreads.com/s/article/...

"The title field is used for the title of the book and for the subtitle if the book has one."
"When a book has a subtitle, the subtitle should be separated from the main title by a language-appropriate separator (in English or if the separator is unknown, use a colon) and a single space."

"The title should be capitalized according to standard title capitalization for the language of the edition."
In Hungarian, only the very first letter and proper nouns should be capitalized.
(EzoPara is not a real word. It has been created from shortening two other words, that is the reason for the strange uppercase letter in the middle of the word.)

"The subtitle should also match the cover of the book."
"Note that many titles appear to be in all uppercase or lowercase letters on the cover but are not otherwise capitalized this way, and that therefore the cover is used for the words of the title but not necessarily the capitalization."

So:

EzoPara: 1. könyv, melyben hőseinket egy eleven halott temetésére hívják

EzoPara: 2. könyv, melyben hőseink nyomról nyomra, meg néha pórul járnak

EzoPara: 3. könyv, melyben hőseinket gyakrabban töri ki a frász, mint szeretnék


And the name of the series is "EzoPara könyvek" according to WorldCat and field 830 of the MARC record.

Thanks.

[Sandra]

Gergő , having perused various websites, including The National Széchényi Library, Worldcat, but unfortunately not the publisher as it was blocked from my computer, the series title is EzoPara. We wouldn't add "könyvek" as that means books, and nowhere on GoodReads is books added to a series title.

When you listed the part from the Librarian Manual on titles & subtitles, you failed to read/post the part about Series Titles:

"series

Series should always be created separately. (See here for more information.) Currently, the series display is not complete across the website, and therefore series information may be repeated in the title field; this is optional. Again, please do not remove series data from the title field if it has already been added!

Place the series information in parentheses after the title and any subtitle or transliteration. If the book is numbered in the series, place the number after the series name with the # symbol in front of it. (Use the same conventions for series numbering in titles as is used in the series object.) Previous conventions used a comma after the series name and before the number; this is also acceptable. If formatted in this fashion, the parenthetical part of the title will be replaced by the actual series object's name and number on the book page as a link to the series.

Examples of series mirrored in titles:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Harry Potter #1)
Among the Living (PsyCop #1)"

Regardless of what the publisher, Worldcat or the National Library say about the series title being first, Goodreads is its own entity, and has its own rules regarding its database. The above rule has been in operation since before I became a librarian more than a decade ago.

If you look at the other series by this author, you'll see that all his series is done the Title (Series #) way.

You keep referring to the title as a subtitle, but on GR it is considered the title, as the series name is never at the beginning unless it is a comic book.

[Gergő]

Would you leave it like this if it were your native language?
Could you imagine a book titled as:
"In which our protagonists get invited to a funeral of a living dead"?
This IS a subtitle if ever there was one.

You have to think about these books as ONE published in three different books.
This story first came alive as short blog posts (or something like that) and only later was published in book form.
These are not 3 stories like 3 books of the Harry Potter series.
This is only one story in 3 books, hence the only title for all the books and the subtitles for making them differentiable (I hope that's a word).

And about the numbers: in Hungarian, "1." means "1st", "2." means "2nd", etc.
If they were only just numbering, of course they should be removed from there.. but they are not. They are the first part of a sentence as I already said a few times.

About not putting the word "book" into series names: how about these?
https://www.goodreads.com/series/4964...
https://www.goodreads.com/series/7252...
https://www.goodreads.com/series/3430...

[Sandra]

Regarding the word 'book' in series names.

Coda, according to the author, Book shouldn't be in the series name, so thank you for posting it, I've fixed it.
The Cemetery of Forgotten Books, obviously has books in the series title, but it is the subject not a verb.
Arcana Books, is strange, doesn't mention books in the blurb, however, it reads to me like it should be Chronicles, rather than Books, but that's what the author went with.


As its obvious that we can't agree on how these books should be treated, I recommend that you post this request in the "Language & Translation Issues" folder & request a Hungarian Librarian in the Header.