Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors Review discussion
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Getting in the "Top 100"
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Owen wrote: "That info is as meaningful in that small market as a ranking is in any other market..."He he. That's a true, yet highly qualified observation. ;D
Being big in a small book category is kind of like being a top seller in a local farmer's market: meaningful in that market, but incomparably different from being a top seller in the retail mega grocery store market.
Micah wrote: "He he. That's a true, yet highly qualified observation. Being big in a small book category is kind of like being a top seller in a local farmer's market: meaningful in that market..."Exactly. I think that's the point. It's meaningful in that market. That is, the metric represents what it says it represents.
Certainly the examples you cite are quite different things, but those cases, one is talking about a different metric. Speaking of the size of the fish in relation to the size of the pond tells you nothing about the absolute size of the fish. So which metric you care about depends one what you want to infer from it.
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That being said, time to dust off my rusty French. Viva les schtroumpfs! ;)
Parece que tengo que cepillar mis skils españolas.
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Given that the words 'couples' and 'sex' appeared in the title, this on a very technical level was the correct category, but come on. I feel like there should at least be one pair of human eyes looking at these things.
Though to be fair, the fact that enough parenting pamphlets are out there to warrant a category is astounding.
Christina wrote: "I saw something last night that highlighted the unscrupulous nature of some 'authors.' An author I know recently published a book that ended up with a tragic list of 'also bought' due mostly to the..."I guess "Under the Bleachers" by Seymour Butts was already done.
I checked my Author Central ranking this morning. A year ago I was 250,000-something in the Sci-Fi category, today 1.6 million something.
About the only better way for my ranking to improve is to (1) have a few promo copies (which I just set up) printed, (2) do more of the author interview thing, and (3) then go hang out under a street lamp and prey upon hapless military personnel passersby saying "Hey soldier, looking for a good read?", until (4) the San Antonio cops arrive to pick me up for weird-non-solicitation.
Huh...I never even looked at the author rankings before, let alone by category.My rankings make me feel simultaneously better, and worse. Not sure how I could rank as high as I do (in the 7,000s I think) in SF eBooks with the (nearly non-existent) sales I get. Makes me feel like SF really doesn't sell that much.
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Micah,Rankings can change hourly, and things like advertising budget, how and where you promote, as well as genre / sub-genre all have an affect.
Sci-Fi sales often depend on name recognition.
I'm sure. But I looked at my rankings since I began self-publishing so I saw the range (both overall and in SF/F and SF alone). I think in the overall the worst I've been is in the 600,000 range with the best being somewhere just less than 100,000. Much better in the SF/F and SF categories.Interesting numbers but I can't see much I can do to influence them other than keep writing and publishing.
Micah wrote: "Huh...I never even looked at the author rankings before, let alone by category.My rankings make me feel simultaneously better, and worse. Not sure how I could rank as high as I do (in the 7,000s ..."
How the ranks in subcategories relate to sales is obscure. (I once saw a link to a site that claimed to compute sales based on ranking, but I didn’t bother to check it out.) Overall ranks in the Kindle store seem more interpretable. Based on what I've been able to observe, a rank in the paid Kindle store of around 10,000 implies about 20 - 30 sales per day. Around 5,000 to 2,500 implies about 30-50 sales/day. To get into the top 1000 takes close to 100 sales/day.
A few sales per day will keep you in the top 50,000, but then it gets totally erratic.
There is quite a bit of sci-fi in the top 10,000 (much of it by indie authors), and a good number in the Top 1000. In fact, the debut novel of a member of this group has been in the Top 1000 for weeks. It was sitting in the mid-500's a few days ago.
BTW: In fantasy, I have not seen this to be the case.
Christina wrote: "I saw something last night that highlighted the unscrupulous nature of some 'authors.' An author I know recently published a book that ended up with a tragic list of 'also bought' due mostly to the..."I started seeing this a couple of months ago. Our series has LGBT main characters, and that got us associated with some very unsavory company in the LGBT sci-fi category. (To be clear, that "company" was related to neither LGBT nor Sci-Fi.)
It appears that these "people" are exploiting keywords to get their stuff into smaller Top 100 lists. Eyes are indeed needed and I hope Amazon takes note of this practice. In the meantime, the offenders can be flagged.
Christina wrote: "I think it has to do with how many of us there are and I think RFG is looking at overall rank because I know there aren't 1.5 million scifi authors."To be honest I'm not 100% sure how Amazon calculates it, though if I was ranked on sales across all genres it's not a bad rank for not actively promoting.
After five months of failing miserably with my first novel, I'm now less motivated to finish the second one.Getting on the top 100 list feels like trying to climb Mt. Everest with only a basic knowledge of rock climbing.
Russell wrote: "After five months of failing miserably with my first novel, I'm now less motivated to finish the second one."Selling a first book is tough. The best way to sell it is to release another, and keep going.
My first book was a failure if you base success on sales. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good one, it's just that very few people saw it. My second did considerably better, but even on that one sales have declined over the last 4 months. I take that as a hint that it's time to write another.
Ken wrote: "My first book was a failure if you base success on sales. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good one, it's just that very few people saw it. My second did considerably better, but even on that one sale..."Indie authors do not fail in a year or so. Their books usually have a very long tailed bell curve. They don't get the publicity that trad published authors do.
Keep writing. Your book is a success if people that read it like it. If you write good books then one book "sells" the other.
I am speaking a little without authority. I have as yet only published one book. However, a few reviews by readers have said they would read more of the "books by the author." If I can get more "out there," then sales will likely more than double and so on. All the time, reviews slowly build up and readers build up and books build up.
Ken wrote: "My first book was a failure if you base success on sales. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good one, it's just that very few people saw it. My second did considerably better, but even on that one sale..."Just scanned back a few posts and it seems that you have (four?) books out there and are doing well. So you know better than me. However, I maintain that an indie book only 'fails' if almost everyone hates it or (worse?) are indifferent about it.
Anthony, I love your way of thinking. :)
Anthony wrote: "Indie authors do not fail in a year or so. Their books usually have a very long tailed bell curve. They don't get the publicity that trad published authors do..."Another way to look at this, is that every book is a "bet". We put it on the table and see if our number comes up. In traditional publishing, if our number fails to come up, they take it off the table and we lose our bet.
As Indies, our bets stay on the table forever, greatly enhancing the chance we'll get a lucky break and/or that our marketing efforts will pay off. Every new reader increases those odds, however slowly they come by, and every new bet we put on the table greatly increases them.
As long as we put out the best work we can and strive to make the next one better still, our chances accumulate. We can only fail on our own terms. No publisher can declare us a failure and wipe table clean.
Owen wrote: "Another way to look at this, is that every book is a "bet"..."I'd prefer not to think of them that way. A bet is a one-time, win-or-lose situation.
A book today, now that we don't have to rely on printed copies being available in brick and mortar stores, is more like an item sold via a catalog from a warehouse which has an infinite supply of copies and no storage costs.
A book today--indie books especially, which are not produced by big corporations driven by short-term bottom line profits--only fails if it totally sucks and everyone tells you so, or if you pull it from distribution.
Each individual books is unlikely to ever be a monster financial successes. But unless you only have one or two books in you, if you keep writing, if you dedicate yourself to decades of work and don't come into it expecting instant fame and success...You'll end up with a catalog of many works, each one a chance for someone to discover you.
If you stay engaged and keep trying to promote your work, however humbly, on a long-term scale it's almost mathematically impossible not to at least break even ;P
Micah wrote: "Owen wrote: "Another way to look at this, is that every book is a "bet"..."I'd prefer not to think of them that way. A bet is a one-time, win-or-lose situation..."
I suppose that might depend on what game you're playing. But the lessons are the same either way: if you don't play, you can't win; if you keep playing and keep learning, the chances you'll eventually have some success are good.
I think I read someplace that you could petition Amazon to create a new subgenre category. Never tried it but it might be worth it. And if they agree you would be the #1 book in it till others joined. :)
It's definitely the tail of the bell curve, though. Daedalus and the Deep sold 95 copies in the first couple of months. It has sold about another 40-50 in the succeeding 18 months. I just don't have time to promote it to the same levels any more, and there's a law of diminishing returns anyway. The publisher isn't doing anything to sell it (not helped by most of the key staff leaving).
Matthew wrote: "It's definitely the tail of the bell curve, though. Daedalus and the Deep sold 95 copies in the first couple of months. It has sold about another 40-50 in the succeeding 18 months. ..."Did you set the price or did the publisher?
They (and Amazon) did. WAAAAAAY too high. And no 99p promos or anything.
Matthew wrote: "They (and Amazon) did. WAAAAAAY too high. And no 99p promos or anything."That's unfortunate.
Yes. I've seen indie publishers that add a lot more value and are more sensible about pricing strategy. It just goes to show you should do your research properly when looking for a publisher (or choosing between indie publisher vs self pub)
My editor actually discouraged going through a publisher. She has published both ways and been successful both ways, but she has been burned by publishers in ways that simply can't happen when you self-publish.It's a lot of work, but when things go my way I find it incredibly rewarding.
Matthew wrote: "Yes. I've seen indie publishers that add a lot more value and are more sensible about pricing strategy. It just goes to show you should do your research properly when looking for a publisher (or ch..."These days, things change so fast, I doubt publishers and agents really have a better handle on things than anyone else who does due diligence. As an indie authors, we have a lot of flexibility, and I see that as key to sales success right now.
(Note the sea change in KU, announced today.)
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I have a short prequel to my series that barely ever sold. Free promos were almost always abysmal on this book. On average, I would sell one book every few months and my free days were typically under 20 downloads.
Sunday I gave away about 150 copies out of the blue and as of this afternoon, I've sold a few copies. Nearly two years after it's release, something happened. Most likely luck. Granted, I'm not going to strike it rich with a 99¢ book, but here's hoping it sparks interest in the series it was intended to sell. But there you have it.
Christina wrote: "Sunday I gave away about 150 copies out of the blue and as of this afternoon, I've sold a few copies. Nearly two years after it's release, something happened. Most likely luck..."That's the great thing. "Luck" is an overriding factor. Stick with it long enough and you have a good chance it will strike.
Good to read this thread and commiserate with al the other struggling authors out there :)On the subject of categories and keywords and such, have you guys were figured out a way to measure if, say, changing your book description on Amazon or your keywords or even your category is actually working? I haven't figured out a way on Amazon to track this other than manually searching through the listings to see if my book is any closer to the front (which takes forever). I guess the gold standard would be sales, but barring that, it would at least be nice to see if at least traffic were increasing.
Joshua wrote: "On the subject of categories and keywords and such, have you guys were figured out a way to measure if, s..."Yes and no. Now that Amazon is listing book ranks all the time and not just when they hit a Top 100, see if those the categories are the ones you want your book to be in. Those categories are based on your keywords (as far as I can tell) and if they don't look right, change them.
The "Also bought" and "Also viewed" also show how people are finding a book and if there's a mismatch (I've seen this a LOT), that almost certainly due to keywords.
And for ourselves, yes: changing the blurb, categories, and the keywords did more than double the sales of my co-author's fantasy novel. It wasn't selling at all, and now it sells a tiny bit.
It would be very nice if Amazon gave us decent stats on our book's pages. If enough of us complain, maybe they will.
Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors...
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Daedalus and the Deep (other topics)Daedalus and the Deep (other topics)
I think it might be more accurate to say that it reflects the size of the market. If your book is only one in its genre that was purchased in a small market, then you are legitimately #1 in that genre, in that market. That info is as meaningful in that small market as a ranking is in any other market.