Week 8 — Part 3, Chapters 8-9

[Susan]

Background: The town of Sulaco has been captured by Pedro Montero and his forces, while the harbor has been occupied by Colonel Sotillo and his troops from Esmeralda. Everyone except Colonel Sotillo has accepted Señor Hirsh’s account that the lighter sank after the collision with the troopship, killing Nostromo and Decoud and taking the silver to the bottom. The doctor is headed to the harbor, planning to spin a story to delay Colonel Sotillo in the hope of helping Mrs Gould. At the moment, there seems to be no way to notify General Barrios to return from Cayta and free the town as proposed by Decoud. On the shore near the harbor, Nostromo wakes up. Decoud and the silver are still on Great Isabel.

Nostromo debates what to do now that Sulaco has been taken over by the Monterists. He feels taken advantage of and betrayed. He decides to find Giorgio Viola and heads for the inn, then decides to check out the Custom House where he sees the shadow of a man. He leaves without revealing himself.

On the way out, he runs into Dr Monygham, who is shocked to learn Nostromo is still alive. Nostromo learns from the doctor that everyone thinks the lighter sunk with the silver and that he and Decoud are dead. He also learns Teresa Viola has died. The doctor goes in to see if the man in the Custom House is waiting for him and then calls Nostromo to come in. The shadow is of a man who has been tied up, tortured, and shot dead. It is Señor Hirsh. The doctor is sure Sotillo is responsible but doesn’t know why he would have killed Hirsh.

In a flashback, we learn Sotillo dodged a request to come to Sulaco and meet with Pedrito Montero, by feigning illness. He then began torturing Hirsh, whose story he refused to believe. He demanded where the silver was really hidden. After hours of leaving and returning, Sotillo tried to horsewhip Hirsh, but Hirsh evaded the blow and spat in his face. Sotillo shot him. He then lied to his men about why, saying that it was because Hirsh confessed.

The doctor who has always been skeptical about Nostromo now decides he is the indispensable man who can carry the word to Cayta. But Nostromo doubts the doctor’s motives including his plan to delay Sotillo with a phony story about the silver. The doctor proposes that he tell Sotillo the treasure is on Great Isabel, but without revealing the real reason, Nostromo persuades him that a more effective way to delay Sotillo is to tell him they deliberately sunk the silver near the harbor “where he may hope to lay his hands on it.”

The doctor urges Nostromo to wait in the inn with Giorgio Viola, and Nostromo agrees. He talks with Viola and decides he is too broken by the death of his wife to entrust with the secret about the silver and Decoud.

Discussion starters:

1) What is the significance of the episode of the man in the Custom House? Is there a broader symbolic meaning for Nostromo or for the reader?

2). What else stood out for you in this week’s reading?

[Roger]

We have two extended dialogues with corpses nearby: Nostromo and Monygham in the presence of Hirsch, and Nostromo and Viola downstairs from the latter's wife. That's got to mean something.

Nostromo's presence of mind is astonishing, coming up instantly with a more plausible story about the silver when Monygham accidentally suggests the real location.

What is Decoud doing, alone on the island with the silver? Is he going to die of thirst? Start signaling for help?

[Borum]

Nostromo seems to see himself as the corpse, abandoned and disregarded. Even the Doctor, whose suggestive words may have driven Sotillo to torture Hirsch to the brink of death. seems to be not as concerned with his involvement in the matter (in fact he seems to brush off as if Hirsch had it coming for him anyway) or Hirsch's tragedy as he is with Sotillo's motive to kill him. He's only concerned with Mrs. Gould and how to use Nostromo even further, and Nostromo's rage at the lack of human concern and the cold betrayal of the Ricos is accentuated by the 'dead corpse' in the room that constantly reminds him of how the Rich people are regarding him.
It's also ironic how he had been so anxious and worried about this 'shadow' of a corpse before. The light that led him to the custom house as well as the shadow of a man that scared him off is sort of like the false illusion of the 'recognition' and 'reliance' of the rich people which led him on.
Also, his reluctance to re-enter Viola's Inn to stay away from Mrs Viola's last words of truth (and maybe malediction) is like how he uses Sotillo's (and perhaps the Doctor's) psychology to lead them away from the actual location of the silver. Nostromo (and her husband) used to belittle her superstition and ignore her criticizing how they are manipulating him by their praises (even his nickname shows how they think of him as 'Our man') and realizes that her warnings have been right all along and it was he who was believing in what he wanted to believe and not look at the plain reality. Now he is using this false lead that makes people follow false hopes and believe what they want to believe and turn them away from the reality of 'dead' or 'lost' hope.

[Borum]

Roger wrote: "We have two extended dialogues with corpses nearby: Nostromo and Monygham in the presence of Hirsch, and Nostromo and Viola downstairs from the latter's wife. That's got to mean something.

What is Decoud doing, alone on the island with the silver? Is he going to die of thirst? Start signaling for help?."

I don't know about Decoud' s intentions but I'm afraid Nostromo's given up on returning to save Decoud, and instead intends to lead them away as far from the Isabel as possible. All he needs is the silver, not Decoud's survival and he seems to have a grudge against Decoud anyway.

[Emil]

Nostromo had a sort of eureka moment when he realised that his hard-earned reputation is useless in the current circumstances. Probably his brother Decoud is also having the same type of eureka moment realising that any treasure can be useless in his own circumstances.


Roger wrote: "We have two extended dialogues with corpses nearby: Nostromo and Monygham in the presence of Hirsch..."

The beauty of this scene is that the late Hirsch is also "actively" participating to the discussion - seems to me he is more communicative and coherent after his death than alive.

NOTE: Hirsch means deer in German, but it can be used as a derogatory term, meaning "coward" or "cuckold"



Borum wrote: " I'm afraid Nostromo's given up on returning to save Decoud, and instead intends to lead them away as far from the Isabel as possible. All he needs is the silver, not Decoud's survival and he seems to have a grudge against Decoud anyway..."


As Dr. Monygham has prophesied:

“What bargain would your worship have made?” asked Nostromo, blowing the smoke out of his lips through the doorway.

Dr. Monygham listened up the staircase for a moment before he answered, with another of his short, abrupt laughs—

“Illustrious Capataz, for taking the curse of death upon my back, as you call it, nothing else but the whole treasure would do.”

[Borum]

Emil wrote: "Nostromo had a sort of eureka moment when he realised that his hard-earned reputation is useless in the current circumstances. Probably his brother Decoud is also having the same type of eureka mom...

The beauty of this scene is that the late Hirsch is also "actively" participating to the discussion - seems to me he is more communicative and coherent after his death than alive.

NOTE: Hirsch means deer in German, but it can be used as a derogatory term, meaning "coward" or "cuckold""

So true! It's as if you can finally think straight in the silence he left behind.
:-)

I think Monygham, as a more experienced veteran of the haunting past, seems to be guided by a more astute sense of the curse of the treasure.. Hirsch's corpse, must be a reminder of the painful past of torture and betrayal he left behind.

[Susan]

Roger wrote: "What is Decoud doing, alone on the island with the silver? Is he going to die of thirst? Start signaling for help?

I would like to know, too. I think the plan he and Nostromo made on the island was that Decoud would take the little boat and try to signal one of the regular steamships. But they didn’t know if the steamships might skip a visit due to the unrest/revolution in Sulaco. Nostromo also told Decoud that he would come back to check on him, but that might be difficult with Sotillo and his men in charge of the harbor.

[Susan]

Borum wrote: "Nostromo seems to see himself as the corpse, abandoned and disregarded. Even the Doctor, whose suggestive words may have driven Sotillo to torture Hirsch to the brink of death. seems to be not as c..."

What strikes me about the episode with Hirsh is the considerable irony around this scene. One example — To protect their mission with the silver, Nostromo himself thought about killing Hirsh in the lighter. Another example — Hirsh is telling the truth as best he knows it — that the lighter sank with the treasure and Nostromo and Decoud. But we’ve seen before in Hirsh’s misunderstanding of the scene on the road where he mistakes Nostromo’s intention toward him that Hirsh doesn’t always get things right. But he is not knowingly lying to Sotillo. Finally, the man who has been timorous and cowardly spits in the face of his torturer before he dies in what I take as an act of defiance and/or contempt.

[Susan]

Borum wrote: “ I don't know about Decoud' s intentions but I'm afraid Nostromo's given up on returning to save Decoud, and instead intends to lead them away as far from the Isabel as possible. All he needs is the silver, not Decoud's survival and he seems to have a grudge against Decoud anyway. ."

I’m not sure that at this point Nostromo’s decided yet what he’s going to do, since he does consider confiding in Giorgio Viola, but Decoud doesn’t seem to be at the top of his list of priorities. He also seems to have a grudge against quite a few people in Sulaco.

[Susan]

Emil wrote: "Nostromo had a sort of eureka moment when he realised that his hard-earned reputation is useless in the current circumstances. Probably his brother Decoud is also having the same type of eureka mom..."

I love this way of putting it. His “eureka moment” also seems spurred by his conversation with Doctor Monygham and Teresa Viola before leaving on the silver “rescue” mission and perhaps the partial failure of that mission. It seems as though Nostromo is used to success.

[Aiden]

Susan wrote: "What is the significance of the episode of the man in the Custom House? Is there a broader symbolic meaning for Nostromo or for the reader?"

I just caught up and I'm glad I did. I'm starting to see the outlines of Conrad's intention. Nostromo's disillusionment after surviving what he perceived to be a suicide mission in which (from his standpoint) nobody even cared that he died is a revelation. Our John the Baptist had a near-death experience and sees life differently now. Death and resurrection, anyone?

I love how Conrad used one of the most openly sinister Europeans to confirm the worst of what Nostromo already is thinking. Nostromo sees, very accurately, that nobody else enters into the doctor's considerations because he thinks he's doing something noble. He acknowledges that he is sacrificing his own life, but Hirsch's cries of anguish (caused by his lie) that moved even Sotillo's hardened soldiers, didn't move the doctor.

It's truly a case of Nostromo coming face to face with the end result of having no principles other than vanity. Even when Nostromo thinks Hirsch is going to get him killed, he doesn't kill him. The doctor, by contrast, acknowledges his own sacrifice, but clearly shows that an innocent merchant being tortured to death based on his lies means nothing to him. Vanity is the doctor's major flaw as well, albeit clothed in the language of love.

Hirsch couldn't help the doctor, so Hirsch and what became of him meant nothing to him. Nostromo clearly sees that the doctor only wants to use him and would discard him just as blithely once he becomes inconvenient. I definitely think that Nostromo, and human suffering, meant more to some of the Gould Concession Europeans than it did to the doctor, who our John the Baptist compares to the devil himself tempting him with flattering. However, it really makes you question how much better the other really are. Do they really care about Nostromo or only what he can do for them?

[Susan]

Aiden wrote: " However, it really makes you question how much better the other really are. Do they really care about Nostromo or only what he can do for them?..."

I think the answers are shown in their reactions to his alleged death. For most of the Blancos, Nostromo was mostly a useful tool. The person who sees his and Decoud’s supposed deaths in human terms is Emilia Gould, but her main expressed concern is for Antonia. Maybe Giorgio Viola is the one person who cares about Nostromo and not what he can do for him or his family (unlike his wife).

[Borum]

Susan wrote: "Aiden wrote: " However, it really makes you question how much better the other really are. Do they really care about Nostromo or only what he can do for them?..."

I think the answers are shown in ..."

It reminds me of Kantian ethics. Do we regard other people as an end, and not only as a means?

[Borum]

Susan wrote: "Aiden wrote: " However, it really makes you question how much better the other really are. Do they really care about Nostromo or only what he can do for them?..."

I think the answers are shown in ..."

Also, I think Conrad is a little bit biased on how he reflects the motives of the characters. I would say that even if they are all using somebody else (even Nostromo is using other people's opinion of him) the personal motives such as Dr. Monyghan's admiration for Mrs Gould and Decoud's love for Antonia is regarded in a more favorable light. This might be his aversion to less personal realm of human interaction or motives such as the sociopolitical or economical ones.

[Aiden]

I agree that Nostromo's relationship with Giorgio and his family might be the only genuine one he has. That was shown beautifully in Nostromo's homecoming.

I wouldn't say that it's so much Conrad's bias. I see it more as Conrad asking each reader to consider these questions for themselves. After all, he shows it fairly from the various points of view. If you look at the reactions to Nostromo's death, we're given plausible reasons and rationalizations for why each feels the way they do. Even the doctor's callous attitude is made understandable to us as a human being. But then Conrad shows us how it appears from Nostromo's perspective after seeing how people behave in the extreme situations, as we have.

[Susan]

Borum wrote: ". I would say that even if they are all using somebody else (even Nostromo is using other people's opinion of him) the personal motives such as Dr. Monyghan's admiration for Mrs Gould and Decoud's love for Antonia is regarded in a more favorable light..."

Maybe it’s a bit too simple to say that most of the Blancos care about Nostromo only for what he can do for them. As you and Aiden point out, characters have personal motives, too. Their feelings are nuanced. For example, even though Teresa Viola wants something from Nostromo, she does seem to care about his welfare. And in fairness, the news of Nostromo’s and Decoud’s alleged deaths comes at a time when there are a few other things going on in Sulaco ;).