Franz Kafka discussion
JUDGMENT - June1-7
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Kafka Group is Dead.... or is it?
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Dear Matty,you are so right; even less likely anyone serious about Philosophy.
I guess it's time I exited this app.
best wishes, p.
****
I still love this app, I can't see an alternative.
I'm up for reading Kafka anytime anyone else wants to.He's one of my 3 favorite authors.
Ha, perhaps there is a bit of interest in Kafka's stories and novel Novels...Having spent some time translating Kafka and noted his connection both to Plato and Rudolf Steiner.... a rather spiritual view of his literary output that culminates in Kafka Unleashed....
so > where does one start?
Judgment is the obvious beginning....
p.
I don't know what kind of "translation" you are up to, but there's little to no connection between Kafka and Plato. You should start by acknowledging Kafka's philosophical influences, such as Nietzsche and Kierkegaard, rather than printing your own interpretation or "translation". Comments like this one make you look naïve and foolish.
Well, I guess you must have some real "credentials" in order to be in the position of saying what you have said...? As for me, Walter Sokel considers my translation of Kafka to be "better" than other English renditions. Case closed.
Kafka and Plato are two figures from different time periods and backgrounds, so there are several major differences between them.Kafka is primarily known as an Avant-Garde writer, famous for his works of fiction and existential themes. His writings explore themes of alienation, bureaucracy, and the human condition. We can't ignore his unique literary style, characterized by a sense of absurdity, ambiguity, and the use of surreal scenarios.
Plato, on the other hand, was an ancient Greek philosopher who wrote dialogues discussing various subjects, including philosophy, ethics, politics, and the nature of reality through debates and discussions.
So there is no reason at all to see any similarities between the two.
Regarding the best English translation of Kafka's works, two prominent and widely praised translations of Kafka's major works are:
- Collected Stories translated by Willa and Edwin Muir.
- The Trial translated by Breon Mitchell.
However, exploring more translations and editions is advisable before claiming that your obscure translation is "better". Your arrogance and naïve interpretation might underscore your credibility.
Finally, regarding my credentials, you can see them in my profile, as well as the different translations of Kafka that I've read.
Well well: On a superficial level Miguel is quite right, he probably hasn't read Max Brod's Biography & isn't aware that Kafka read Plato in Greek.... no big deal.My original question is still up in the air.... "Is the Kafka Group Dead, or not?"
Besides the above distraction, I don't see much evidence of any real interest in discussing Kafka's stories.... which is and has been the case for quite some time, so it goes.
Good evening to both Matt and Phillip.To Matt:
First, intertextuality refers to the "interconnectedness" of texts, where one text references, alludes to, or is influenced by another. The concept recognizes that no text exists in isolation but is shaped by the cultural, historical, and literary context it exists within. This reinforces my conviction that Plato has no relation whatsoever to Kafka.
Second, Franz Kafka's works share so many similarities with psycho-analysis due to their exploration of themes such as guilt, alienation, and the unconscious mind. Kafka's narratives delve into the complexities of the individual psyche, inviting readers to reflect on their fears, desires, and the human condition. This parallel between Kafka's writing and psycho-analysis highlights their shared interest in understanding the depths of the human mind and exploring the anxieties and complexities of existence. Such interest has been share by Dr. Judith Butler, for example. So you are wrong by affirming that Kafka's works are outside of psychology. He was an existentialist, after all.
Third, yes. Holding a degree does grant an individual with authority over certain topics and authors. I thank you for your advice, although I didn't ask for it. And since all remaning points in my response were ignore, I summit you conceded to them.
I recommend you study this material:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD...
(Check episodes 12 and 13).
Scientific articles regarding Kafka:
-https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/...
-https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl...
To Phillip:
I want to encourage you to read the editions were Kafka's writings can be read without Brod's alterations. I hope you'll find those editions superior. Also, I see no need to read Brod at all. That's like saying we must read the biography of Nietzsche by his sister before reading his work... That's just absurd.
And, again, Kafka shows no influence regarding Plato. You also seem to have ignored my answer, and as such, you conceded to my points.
Recommended study:
-https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=P...
-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OSIA6qX...
How rude you are! If you have nothing nice to say, it's better to say nothing at all. Justice & Law are both central concerns of Plato and Kafka.... it is as obvious as your rudeness and I hope that some day you might relax and figure out that there are better things to do than argue on such a superficial level as, truth be told: such remarkable authors will never be appreciated by such crude and insulting commentary.p.
Good morning, Phillip.I see no insults in my answers. I do see a profound bias in yours. Let me elaborate.
1. Law and Justice are also treated by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, but that hardly would be a reason to believe that Kafka shares any influence with them.
2. On the contrary, I see you have fallen into cognitive dissonance.
*Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term referring to discomfort when individuals hold conflicting beliefs. Ancient Greek rationalism and modern existentialism are two conflicting philosophical perspectives that challenge the rational basis of your judgment. This mistake was also made by Teilhard, who tried to reconcile Darwin's theory of evolution with Catholic beliefs.
3. In "The Trial", for example, Kafka reflects Nietzsche's influence by questioning the subjective nature of truth. In "The Metamorphosis", Nietzsche's influence is evident as Kafka challenges the concepts of morality and guilt.
Basically, Nietzsche disagreed with Plato's belief in the existence of universal and objective truths, advocating instead for a more subjective and individualistic perspective on life and truth, which is present in Kafka and not in Plato.
As you can see, Plato and Kafka hold opposite views, and failing to recognize that you hold two contradictory perspectives and that you get upset when challenged, is a clear sign of cognitive dissonance. You are trying to prevent this dissonance by preferring tactics such as avoidance, willful ignorance, dissociation, change in behavior perception, and derogation toward criticism.
I suggest you remain open to criticism and review your methods of literary analysis to fully appreciate Kafka's unique literary style and influence on authors such as Judith Butler and Theodor Adorno.
"Basically, Nietzsche disagreed with Plato's belief in the existence of universal and objective truths, advocating instead for a more subjective and individualistic perspective on life and truth, which is present in Kafka and not in Plato."Is "Man the measure" of all things...? (Protagoras' relativism)--?
and did Kafka go along with this absurd thesis!!
A careful reading of K's meeting with the Priest as well as Josef K's meeting with the "Verbindungssekretar" (liason to the Castle)
-- both terribly Critical Junctures in Kafka's Novels: The Trial and The Castle >>
are the answer to this Battle of the Giants, materialism & idealism;
I stand with Plato and believe too that Kafka is ultimately on the side of Truth, not that he is not extremely apt at diving into the absurdities and tragedy of mankind's Modern Alienation.
Seeing as how the fabric of human society is itself in tatters what with Bosanairo (sp?) in Brazil, Trump in USA, NetanyaWho in Israel and Putin in Russia.... etc. etc...
Well, I see no particular need to go on regarding a fundamental divergence in philosophical orientation and hope that whoever
is in GoodReads and has any interest in this may find a bit of hope and consolation in what I have done to bring Light into our so blackened time, what with the fires raging all over Southern Europe, not to mention Canada, etc, etc.
p.
Matty wrote: "It's incredible how confidently incorrect you are."Like Alex Lyon said: "There's an old principle when it comes to back and forth debate like this. The phrase is: Silence is agreement. In other words, if you are debating somebody and they make three points, and you only disagree and refute their first point, the assumption is that you must agree with points two and three by default" (Lyon, 2023, 12:45).
In this case, I think you agree and concede all points by not offering any rebuttal and instead resorting to Ad Hominem.
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this topic, tho! Have a great day.
Regards.
Source:
Communication Coach Alexander Lyon. (2023). Communication Professor Reacts to Quentin Tarantino's Viral Interview [Video Archive]. Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm_VZ...
What topic?That I'm at a loss when it comes to Kafka?....
The topic that I began with is whether there was any interest in discussing Franz's stories & novels.... I have absolutedy no interest in arguing vague claims and scoring points but was only a bit concerned due to the lack of interest displayed by the 373 members of this Kafka group in discussing anything by Kafka, regardless of who did the translation....
I thank Matty for doing what he might to resolve a totally unnecessary side-tracking and I guess the best thing would be if a GoodReads Librarian might delete this entire exchange for it adds very little to promoting any appreciation of Franz' writings.
best wishes, p.
Phillip wrote: "What topic?..."Good morning.
My response was directed to Matt. You should pay more attention and read my comments before responding.
Also, you ignored all my points, and as such you conceded to them. I see no reason to see my participation in this topic as "vague".
If you believe that this discussion "adds very little", then that's your own interpretation, and I highly doubt that a Goodreads Librarian will take yours into account while ignoring everyone else's opinion, but you are free to delete your own comments if you want or leave this group if it "adds very little" to your own understanding of Kafka.
Regards.
Franz Kafka
Books mentioned in this topic
Collected Stories (other topics)The Trial (other topics)
still attempting a coup, to open a Window and bring a bit of light into the cave of Being and Non-being....
'tis quite interesting that the Last Post on this Kafka group was over 2 years ago!! >> the 337 members have gone elsewhere, Or perhaps Goodreads ain't so good for Franz?
But, perhaps Kate has read Investigations of a Dog....
and M. has gone off to fight for Ukraine?.... a worthy cause.
best, p.