Week 5 - Part 2, Chapters 6-7

[Susan]

It’s been a busy week in Sulaco! Here’s a barebones summary of what’s going on.

Background: A civil war rages in Costaguana where General Montero and his brother Don Pedro Montero have revolted against the Ribiera government, but so far little fighting has occurred in the Occidental Province. The garrison of Sulaco under the command of General Barrios has just headed south by sea for the port of Cayta, now under siege by pro-Montero forces.

Chapters 6-7: Martin Decoud covertly approaches Emilia Gould with recently received news that the Ribiera forces were defeated in a decisive battle near Sta Marta a few days before. Decoud proposes a new revolution to make Sulaco and the whole Occidental Province independent and has a plan to accomplish it with support from the Goulds. Emilia Gould is interested but worried because six months worth of silver from the mine is scheduled to arrive in Sulaco the next day. As rumors of the Montero victory spread, “troubles might break out in town.” Decoud thinks the silver shipment can go forward. They should be able to hush up the news of the Ribiera defeat, and Nostromo has promised the Cargadores’ support if there is a riot.

The silver shipment arrives and is temporarily stored in the Customs House. Señor Ribiera arrives after a difficult trip over the mountains, and rioting breaks out in the town. Nostromo and his Cargadores rescue Ribiera from the mob, and the railway staff save the town and their equipment. Nostromo and Captain Mitchell get Ribiera on a ship out of Costaguana.

The Casa Gould becomes a refuge from the fighting and an assembly place. In one room, the remnants of the Provincial Assembly meet along with an ailing Don Jose, planning how to maintain order ”’Till the new officials arrive.’”. Decoud tries to persuade them not to surrender, but without effect.

That night in another room, Decoud, Antonia, and the Goulds meet together to discuss possible financial support from Holroyd for Sulaco independence. They are joined by the Engineer-in-Chief of the railway who informs them Pedro Montero and his men are pursuing Ribiera and are about a thirty hour ride away. In more bad news, Esmeralda has been taken by pro-Montero forces who are sending to Sulaco a transport ship full of troops which could arrive overnight.

The group forms a plan to save the silver by sending it on a small ship with Nostromo and Decoud to a port outside Costaguana. But the small ship is sail-powered, and this is the Golfo Placido, so they make little headway, listening all the time for the boat from Esmeralda. Nostromo decides that they should use the oars and head for the Isabels to hide before daybreak. As they row, Nostromo hears someone weeping, and they discover Señor Hirsh, hiding in the front of the boat.

On the human side, Decoud is inspired out of his cynicism by his love for Antonia. (He is also on the hit list for the pro-Montero side). Don Jose is dying. Teresa Viola is also dying, and Nostromo rides through the turmoil to fetch a doctor for her. He reluctantly visits her deathbed, and, for various reasons, refuses her request that he get a priest. He also has mixed feelings about the mission to save the silver as well as his role in rescuing Ribiera and quelling the mob.

These chapters are so eventful and filled with detail that I didn’t stop reading at the end of Chapter 7. Did you? I was in awe at the way Conrad pulls together here the threads planted through the earlier chapters, including the geography of Sulaco.

Discussion starters:

1) Why do you think Nostromo refuses to fetch a priest for Teresa Viola?

2) Which of the many scenes/images stood out for you?

[Mike]

For me the scene that stood out the most was being at sea at night. I could vividly picture the two men out in the stillness of the night, panicking at anything unexpected (either in nature or in their heads). It was tranquil and terrifying.

[Aiden]

I agree that the feeling of the calm before a very violent storm made an impression.

As for Nostromo, he seems to be a caricature given human form. However, we see now that the reason is because that is how he wants to appear. Other people seeing him as heroic is all that matters to him.

But he explains in the boat why he didn't get a priest; he knew she was being disingenuous. According to Nostromo, at least, the woman's aim was to keep Nostromo from allowing his overweening pride to force him into this suicide mission (he showed her!). She knew that no priest would be allowed amid the violence and her gambit was to simply ask Nostromo to stay with her "until the priest arrives," knowing that by the time one could arrive the poisoned chalice of silver would have been dealt with without Nostromo's involvement by the Monteros.

[Susan]

Mike wrote: "For me the scene that stood out the most was being at sea at night. I could vividly picture the two men out in the stillness of the night, panicking at anything unexpected (either in nature or in their heads). It was tranquil and terrifying..."

There were a lot of great scenes this week, including the deathbed conversation between Teresa Viola and Nostromo, the scene with Martin Decoud and Emilia Gould with the fan, and the scene with the wounded being tended by the doctor, priest, and Mrs Gould, but the scene at sea in the darkness with Martin Decoud and Nostromo is the one that made the biggest impression on me, too. Part of the tension I thought came from the surprising revelation of both men’s characters as they reached a crisis point with the failure of the wind and sheer exhaustion.

[Susan]

Aiden wrote: "I agree that the feeling of the calm before a very violent storm made an impression."

Your comment reminds me of the epigraph: “So foul a sky clears not without a storm.”. I guess one question is what/who will be left standing after the storm is over.

[Susan]

Aiden wrote: ".. As for Nostromo, he seems to be a caricature given human form. However, we see now that the reason is because that is how he wants to appear. Other people seeing him as heroic is all that matters to him. "

We definitely get a very different picture of Nostromo in these chapters, but I found it a relief to finally have him presented as an individual with his own perspective versus the earlier picture as Captain Mitchell’s indispensable employee who he loans to everyone to help them out.

[Aiden]

Susan wrote: "Your comment reminds me of the epigraph: “So foul a sky clears not without a storm.”"

The epigraph made me curious, so I looked it up. King John isn't one of Shakespeare's tragedies that I've read fully, but the line comes after the King is told that Arthur of Brittany (his young nephew who was next in line for the throne) is dead, that he's being blamed and that the powers are gathered to push him out of France.

"KING JOHN
They burn in indignation. I repent:
There is no sure foundation set on blood,
No certain life achieved by others' death.
[Enter a Messenger]
A fearful eye thou hast: where is that blood
That I have seen inhabit in those cheeks?
So foul a sky clears not without a storm:
Pour down thy weather: how goes all in France?"

So the epigraph was referring to a storm that was political as well as physical in nature, much like our revolution. Unfortunately for our protagonist, Nostromo seems like he might be the Arthur of Brittany character; the "innocent" who mysteriously dies when it suits those in power to have him out of the way (possibly because he likewise represents a threat).

[Emil]

A blind boat bearing the future of a country in her womb, along with two unlikely brothers. What a scene!
We finally met Nostromo, unidimensional and driven only by his vanity - at least for now.

This novel has a long fuse, but it finally exploded.I personally wish Conrad would have started the novel with this amazing chapter and start his worldbuilding process afterwards. There was no tension in the first part and I've overlooked many important details.

[Aiden]

I feel like Conrad wrote this the way he did for a reason; we just don't know it yet. That said, I agree with you that there has been a distinct lack of dramatic tension in much of what we've read so far. It's felt more like the first half of the novel was just introducing characters and setting the scene. If there's no meaningful payoff at the end, I'll be a bit disappointed.

[Susan]

Aiden wrote: "The epigraph made me curious, so I looked it up. ... So the epigraph was referring to a storm that was political as well as physical in nature, much like our revolution. Unfortunately for our protagonist, Nostromo seems like he might be the Arthur of Brittany character; the "innocent" who mysteriously dies when it suits those in power to have him out of the way (possibly because he likewise represents a threat). ."

Very interesting. We shall see what we shall see ;)

[Susan]

Emil wrote: "A blind boat bearing the future of a country in her womb, along with two unlikely brothers. What a scene!
We finally met Nostromo, unidimensional and driven only by his vanity - at least for now.
..."

“Two unlikely brothers” is who Decoud and Nostromo are — unlike in character, intentions, and motives as well as social position and life skills, to name a few

[Greg]

Aiden wrote: "But he explains in the boat why he didn't get a priest; he knew she was being disingenuous. According to Nostromo, at least, the woman's aim was to keep Nostromo from allowing his overweening pride to force him into this suicide mission (he showed her!). She knew that no priest would be allowed amid the violence and her gambit was to simply ask Nostromo to stay with her "until the priest arrives," knowing that by the time one could arrive the poisoned chalice of silver would have been dealt with without Nostromo's involvement by the Monteros"

For sure this is true. Additionally, he also is a true materialist and sees no point or function (no "efficacy") to what the priests do.

Interestingly though, he feels some guilt or remorse, not because he thinks the priests are meaningful in any way but he knows that priests are meaningful to her.

"But she - she believes in them. The thing sticks in my throat. She may be dead already . . ."

This shows a capacity for empathy that makes me like Nostromo. He's a man of action, but he's not indifferent to the suffering of othets.

[Greg]

Susan wrote: "but the scene at sea in the darkness with Martin Decoud and Nostromo is the one that made the biggest impression on me, too. Part of the tension I thought came from the surprising revelation of both men’s characters as they reached a crisis point with the failure of the wind and sheer exhaustion"

This was my favorite part as well, so evocatively described with the impenetrable darkness that blots out not only light but creates a strange spiritual state, with both a "foretaste of eternal peace" as well as something akin to sleep and something that crushes and weighs "like a stone".

Interesting that the story rises to another level on the boat. Conrad seems to have a gift for expressing that environment, such as in Typhoon and portions of several other novels.

[Aiden]

Greg wrote: "Interestingly though, he feels some guilt or remorse, not because he thinks the priests are meaningful in any way but he knows that priests are meaningful to her."

I did appreciate Conrad adding more complexity to the title character in that nuanced remorse that he feels. I feel like I've seen so little of him, he might as well be Godot. His scene with the woman and his guilt after, combined with his admissions of frustration, gave him more dimension.

[Aiden]

Greg wrote: "Interesting that the story rises to another level on the boat. Conrad seems to have a gift for expressing that environment, such as in Typhoon and portions of several other novels."

Nice observation. Heart of Darkness takes place mostly on a boat, as well.

[Susan]

Greg wrote: "This was my favorite part as well, so evocatively described with the impenetrable darkness that blots out not only light but creates a strange spiritual state, with both a "foretaste of eternal peace" as well as something akin to sleep and something that crushes and weighs "like a stone"...."

A powerful scene! I think we’re unanimous in singling out this one. The boat scenes finally give us the “sea” in the story’s subtitle “A Tale of the Seaboard.”. Maybe one of Nostromo’s distinguishing virtues is that he is equally at home on land or sea.

[Borum]

Susan wrote: "Aiden wrote: ".. As for Nostromo, he seems to be a caricature given human form. However, we see now that the reason is because that is how he wants to appear. Other people seeing him as heroic is a..."

I'm beginning to think that he has other plans or motives of his own than what he was ordered to do.. I first thought of him as a Zorba the Greek kind of guy, who finds his glory and existential worth from his living it up to the fullest, but I'm getting an impression that he's more practical and cool-headed than he would like to be known by everyone else. His attitude towards Teresa Viola and Sr Hirsch reveals some his other sides that Conrad seems to unveil slowly.

Two unlikely brothers” is who Decoud and Nostromo are
- A good point, and this is more evident in the stillness of the absolute darkness, as if John Rawls' veil of ignorance has been drawn upon these two. They were so different and yet it draws on them what common fate they have to face on this boat. It even seems to me that Aiden's reference to the Arthur of Brittany character may suit both characters. Could Decoud, instead of Nostromo, be the innocent sacrificial lamb? It looks as if Nostromo, if worst comes to worst, would not hesitate to kill both Hirsh and Decoud in an instant for his mission.

[Borum]

Aiden wrote: "Susan wrote: "Your comment reminds me of the epigraph: “So foul a sky clears not without a storm.”"

The epigraph made me curious, so I looked it up. King John isn't one of Shakespeare's tragedies ..."

Thank you for the full story behind the epigraph, Aiden.

[Aiden]

Borum wrote: "Thank you for the full story behind the epigraph, Aiden."

My pleasure. Sorry to hear about your health concerns. Glad you decided to still join us.

[Susan]

Borum wrote: "I'm beginning to think that he has other plans or motives of his own than what he was ordered to do.. I first thought of him as a Zorba the Greek kind of guy, who finds his glory and existential worth from his living it up to the fullest, but I'm getting an impression that he's more practical and cool-headed than he would like to be known by everyone else.

Nostromo is hard to get a handle on. He is immensely effective as the Capataz and as seen here, as a sailor and man of action, but the bias in Sulaco seems to be to see him as Captain Mitchell's useful tool. Is Decoud right when he identifies vanity as the key spring to Nostromo's character? No one else seems to see him that way, but maybe the outsider has seen what others have missed.

[Lily]

Susan wrote: "Borum wrote: "Is Decoud right when he identifies vanity as the key spring to Nostromo's character? No one else seems to see him that way, but maybe the outsider has seen what others have missed. ..."

Or is it that Nostromo is "not accepted" or "treated as an outsider" where he would have liked to have been one of the "in" guys? Is that what is implied by "vanity"?

[Susan]

Lily wrote: "is it that Nostromo is "not accepted" or "treated as an outsider" where he would have liked to have been one of the "in" guys? Is that what is implied by "vanity"? .."

Is there a particular line or passage that gave that impression? I saw Nostromo’s vanity more in line with the traditional meaning of the word. Much more insight into this question is coming in Part 3, Chapters 8 and 9.