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Updating the PBT Top 100 - Fiction First
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I detested 1984 and most definitely voted to remove it. I know it’s a classic and someone could most definitely argue it’s literary merit, and maybe it was the first of its kind - but I don’t personally think it was that good. So that makes at least one vote against it, if anyone else wants to join me! ;)
I only chose 5 as I am hesitant to pick something I have not read. There are certainly plenty on there that I will never read but they may be someone else's favorites.
Nicole wrote: "I detested 1984 and most definitely voted to remove it. I know it’s a classic and someone could most definitely argue it’s literary merit, and maybe it was the first of its kind - but I don’t perso..."I will definitely be joining you on voting to remove it! I've not voted yet as I'm not sure which book I want to nominate, but there are about 8 books on the list that I only gave 1 or 2 stars to, including a different book that I absolutely hated when I read it, and will still rant about whenever someone mentions it, and is definitely in my top 5 list of worst books I think I have ever read.
I think it would be really interesting, after this process is over and the new list has been finalised to see which books people voted to add / remove from the list and why. Hopefully someone will start that discussion.
Hannah wrote: "Nicole wrote: "I detested 1984 and most definitely voted to remove it. I know it’s a classic and someone could most definitely argue it’s literary merit, and maybe it was the first of its kind - bu..."Hannah, there are more than a few books on the list that I remember suffering through when they were required reading in school. I've always wondered how books achieve the status of being classics and now, I wonder too, about why some books are called modern classics. How does this come to be? ;0(
Holly, I think it is partly because people have such different tastes in books. I love reading the classics and I doubt there is much argument over whether 1984 is a classic. We probably need some criteria of what should be on our PBT list. Is it our personal favorites or should these books stand the test of time? I daresay our top 100 "best" books ever written will be different than our top 100 favorite reads.
That’s a great point, some books are important but that doesn’t mean they were the most impactful or enjoyable to each of us.
Hannah - I’m very curious, which book is it that you detest????
I really don't want to narrow the criteria for selection because the voting process naturally makes the list what we collectively want it to be.Personally, my ideal list would contain the books that PBTer's would gleefully thrust into all of their fellow readers hands if they could! That's what I'm hoping for . . .books that may or may not be the best by critical standards, but are the books you really want the rest of us to pick up. Or the book that you just can't stop thinking about and would love to discuss with all of us. Books you want us to read!!
The voting can take care of the rest . . .it's the PBT collective mind at a very specific point of time. Hence the ongoing revisions!!
It will be hard for books that are very new to crack the list, and that's fine . . .
It's quite interesting so far how many single titles have been nominated by multiple people. Also interesting is that in terms of removing titles, we have quite a few current titles that are clearly going to remain, and I think those are "classics in the making".
Nicole wrote: "Hannah - I’m very curious, which book is it that you detest????"Nicole - Slaughterhouse-Five. I thought the main characters was boring and lacked depth of character, I didn't like the writing style of short but incomplete sentences, and the whole being abducted by aliens idea seemed ridiculous and spoilt what could otherwise have been an at least average book about the firebombing of Dresden! I'm not at all a sci-fi fan, and this was also a book I was forced to read at school, so part of my dislike may actually be more resentment than anything else.
That’s so funny, I remember particularly liking Slaughterhouse Five when I read it as a teenager. Maybe this is another good example of books you shouldn’t reread! lol
Nicole wrote: "I detested 1984 and most definitely voted to remove it. I know it’s a classic and someone could most definitely argue it’s literary merit, and maybe it was the first of its kind - but I don’t perso..."I am glad to know I am not the only one that detested 1984. My husband however liked it. I also voted to remove it.
I didn't read Slaughterhouse Five as a teen (we had Shakespeare and Shakespeare only for English if you were in top set and I still remember the quotes I had to memorise as likely to be needed in the exam 35 years ago, why won't they leave my head?) but did read it about 10 years ago and really liked it. I also really like 1984 and Brave New World, but they are a little close to home for how the world is turning out. Then again I'm a weirdo and nobody tends to like the books I like on here so.....
Jen wrote: "I didn't read Slaughterhouse Five as a teen (we had Shakespeare and Shakespeare only for English if you were in top set and I still remember the quotes I had to memorise as likely to be needed in t..."I really liked all three as well!! Must be a Jen thing... :)
Glad I'm not the only one Jen K. Goodreads is still playing up for me so I can't reply to individual messages anymore....very frustrating.
I picked up Slaughter House Five maybe as a late teen, early 20s.I was a late reader, so I didn't know Kurt Vonnegut and the title made me think it would be like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or something which is why I decided to read it...
Not horror in the way I was thinking 🤣
But I do remember liking it a lot.
Meli wrote: "I picked up Slaughter House Five maybe as a late teen, early 20s.I was a late reader, so I didn't know Kurt Vonnegut and the title made me think it would be like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or somethi..."
I was obsessed with Vonnegut as a teen. Now I'm scared to revisit just in case they didn't age well. So it goes.
Jen K wrote: "I was obsessed with Vonnegut as a teen. Now I'm scared to revisit just in case they didn't age well. So it goes."I understand that, but I think he will hold up.
As the kids say, he still slaps 😁
Jen wrote: "I didn't read Slaughterhouse Five as a teen (we had Shakespeare and Shakespeare only for English if you were in top set and I still remember the quotes I had to memorise as likely to be needed in t..."I read Slaughterhouse Five when I first went off to college many years ago and loved it. I don't know if I would like it now.
1984 and Brave New World are both books I loved and both rare books which I have reread, They have stayed with me even though one of the last rereads was long ago. I see them both as relevant to today's world.
Just my 2 cents.
Jen wrote: "I didn't read Slaughterhouse Five as a teen (we had Shakespeare and Shakespeare only for English if you were in top set and I still remember the quotes I had to memorise as likely to be needed in t..."I had to memorize passages of Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales in Olde English (which is very different than current English). I still remember them.
Joy D I am "Olde" so anything I studied at school is also "Olde". I never had an issue with Olde English, probably because I'm ESL so it is just another language. Didn't like poetry though in any language. I'm glad that times have moved on and exams focus less on rote learning now (at least they do here). More important for our kids, with everything available at the touch of a button, is the ability to select appropriate and credible sources. Our coursework component focuses on that and our exam component focuses on application of knowledge and skills in new contexts. I have just used my being an old fart to our advantage with y12 chemistry. I had to change pills because of my age but the doctor recommended one which had 100 fold increase in dose (which was apparently the issue with the original medication), this obviously confused and worried me; until I looked at the actual chemical compounds involved. The kids have just done organic chem so these meds gave a perfect exam style question to show their chem understanding of the reactions of esters, carboxylate salts and tertiary diols.
Jen wrote: "Joy D I am "Olde" so anything I studied at school is also "Olde". I never had an issue with Olde English, probably because I'm ESL so it is just another language. Didn't like poetry though in any l..."It was also the perfect demonstration of how all that 'useless' study could have application in every day life!
One of the new education formats I see - or more accurately hear about - is a different way to teach basic math or Arithmatic as it was called in my elementary school days in the 1960s. It is just confusing and even ridiculous to me. There is a serious trend to teach to the lowest level rather than aspiring to a higher - dumbing down.
I don't recall any learning poetry or such by memorization, but I am terrible at that sort of thing. I do remember the first time we studied Shakespeare - 8th grade so about 13 yo. Teacher had us reading A Midsummer Night's Dream aloud in class with different students assigned roles each day. Scenes would be discussed as we went along. We all ended that class loving Shakespeare. Such a brilliant choice and method. Too many started you off with Julius Ceasar and loathed it.
Yes Theresa, we did A Midsummer Night's Dream as our intro to Shakespeare too. Still have quotes from my y9 exam in my head from it. I have no idea why my brain retains such stupid info 35+ years later. It also remembers the references I had to cite in my uni exams, not just the info but the references for where the info came from.....why? I hate rote learning as both a teacher and student because a) I am way too lazy to revise and b) it is really shallow learning. And yes it was the goal that the kids see that what they are learning can be applied at the doctors. I would have been completely taken of my pills due to age if I hadn't been able to show I understood the biochemistry and make an alternative suggestion....because I could they have compromised and I don't have to go back to passing out several times a month until I show a symptom which will entitle me to HRT. The doctors are most upset with me for not being normal enough to have a medical reason to take me off other than just being an old fart. Some of the girls have enjoyed my fear and the chemistry and took lots of notes to show their mums for when they get this ancient.
Jen, it's great that you were able to apply your knowledge to your medical care and also, advocate for yourself with the doctors.Several years ago at work, I saw an error in the hospitals system's (my employer) pension plan for the employees. I can't say that my math skills are that advanced, but I knew that our pension plans should not be going DOWN every year, instead of up. It turns out that they (the powers that be) were calculating the pensions wrong for the part-time employees. This is a hospital chain that employs thousands of people. Of course, they didn't want to listen to what I had to say, but ultimately they had to revise the way they did the calculations.
Here's another real-life example for your students.
Hurrah to both Holly and Jen for stepping up and advocating for themselves and others! Many would have sat idle and let the doctor and bean counters (I am one so that is not a slur) carry on!
I KNOW that I have used things I learned in my teens in real life applications (though I cannot think of specific example right now). But still ... I love the scene in Peggy Sue Got Married where she is faced with an algebra exam and she turns in a blank page, explaining to the teacher, "I happen to know for a fact that I will NEVER need this information in real life."
Holly R W wrote: "Jen, it's great that you were able to apply your knowledge to your medical care and also, advocate for yourself with the doctors.Several years ago at work, I saw an error in the hospitals system'..."
I find it happens a lot. People often treat clients/patients/customers as idiots and think they will get away with it because nobody asks questions. Some people get really upset when we ask a lot of questions and even more so when we understand enough to ask even more when they try to fob us off or to call out contradictions. I train my kids to ask questions especially when it comes to their health. The doctor down the road from school (not my GP) is now used to kids coming in and asking questions or kids coming in and asking to be tested for something he hasn't thought of (especially mental health related). The GPs get 15 mins only so they don't have time to get full back history or symptoms and to think about it. Personally I list all symptoms/changes and go in with the list (and have told the kids to do the same), the GP can then decide what is relevant. One young man had been having 100s (literally) of tests over the space of a year as they looked for a reason for his symptoms.....very frustrating for him and the GP. He spent a lunch time venting to me so I asked him all his symptoms, we wrote them all down since he had yet more blood tests that afternoon, and once they were written down it was obvious he had clinical depression. In he trundles with a highlighted list and asks the doc. Sure enough diagnosis is made and he is put on meds. Unfortunately the doctor prescribes him the dose for an 18 year old male (which he is) but he had a major reaction vomiting etc. We looked at the med packet and he was on a dose for someone 10Kgs heavier....back to the doctors he went and had the dose reduced. All good, he is now in Medical school himself.
Jen, that's quite a story you related! It's evident how much you care for the kids you are teaching and that you're helping them become critical thinkers. Your post caused another experience of mine to surface. Six years ago, after my husband had a stroke and his blood pressure was off the charts high, our internist berated me for asking him too many questions and slowing him down for the next patient in line. I also asked the doctor to check his blood pressure more frequently since it was out of control, which he didn't think was necessary. (The doctor had wanted to see my husband again in three months.) I remember thinking that our dog was receiving better care from the vet, than my husband was receiving from the doctor.
Even though we had seen this doctor for many years (and he had been good), we decided to seek new medical care.
Holly R W wrote: "Jen, that's quite a story you related! It's evident how much you care for the kids you are teaching and that you're helping them become critical thinkers. Your post caused another experience of m..."
I agree with your choice 100%. Since my last doctor moved away I have tried 3. The current one seems like she will be ok and is less judgy than the previous 2. She's still making me have 199 (not literal) tests because I'm old but at least she isn't testing me for insane things that couldn't possibly be/go wrong. On the plus because I'm a nosy old cow I have learnt about a hell of a lot of things I was completely unaware of due to all these silly tests. The whole practice seems so disappointed that they can't find any evidence of anything wrong in someone so ancient.....I suspect they sit there at lunch and try to think of things to test us oldies for. Whoever can find someone to test for the weirdest disease gets a bonus.
Jen, I don't think of you as ancient at all! (After all, my dad lived to be 98 years old). I hope you are feeling better ( you had mentioned a history of passing out in a previous post).
And another Hurrah going to Jen-spending time with this poor kid and helping him navigate, totally awesome! It took me years to figure out I had to be my own medical advocate-no one else was going to care to do it. Had I someone like Jen, the road would have been easier.
One way my daughter dealt with her cancer was to read up on everything and research every drug, find online patient groups with real-life participants, etc. She would come in with a list of written questions. Not all doctors appreciated that but the one she had most of the time came to understand her and said that when she saw the show The Queen's Gambit with the young chess player, she was reminded of my daughter with her logical mind. (I was the opposite, I refused to read anything about cancer, even fiction.)My brother has multiple health issues but is also a brilliant person, he knows the terminology and has had doctors ask him if he had medical training (he didn't). But he went for months with a very depressed appetite and other digestive problems, losing a lot of weight. He was in the hospital twice with many tests without them finding any reason. Then he was at one of his regular doctors and the nurse thought to check his medications. Looking them up, she saw that one could cause this problem as a side effect, and nobody had ever looked it up! The doctor that had prescribed that drug was about to take him off it anyway and as soon as he did, things got better.
Many medical practices now push doctors to see more patients and spend less time with each in order to make more money for the practice.
A friend of mine developed a hand tremor out of the blue - and she is a writer and stitcher! There was no family history, no one could figure it out, it was worrisome and bothersome. About 2 years later she read something somewhere by chance, and she did some quick research and immediately went to see her primary physician. It was caused by the dosage of her hypertension medication. By changing the medication, the tremor disappeared. Yes, we all need to be advocates. And some - even me sometimes - need someone to advocate for us.
A Canadian friend has been dealing with a sudden strange condition that is mystefying all, and having a very negative impact on her life. Lots of testing and trying different meds for relief hopefully. I recently read a NF in which a poet in the 1970s was suffering from lupus for several years - and the symptoms and effect were nearly identical. At no point has my friend said they have tested for and ruled out lupus. So I am emailing her asking and suggesting that even if initially ruled out, now that months have passed with no answers, they check it again.
Robin P wrote: "One way my daughter dealt with her cancer was to read up on everything and research every drug, find online patient groups with real-life participants, etc. She would come in with a list of written..."I could see myself being like your daughter. I certainly do that with my cats. (And ask questions of the vets... likely some don't like that, either!) Maybe I can put that down to being a librarian, so doing a bunch of research on whatever it is?
LibraryCin wrote: "Robin P wrote: "One way my daughter dealt with her cancer was to read up on everything and research every drug, find online patient groups with real-life participants, etc. She would come in with a..."Totally makes sense for a librarian - getting information is what you are about!
Holly R W wrote: "Jen, I don't think of you as ancient at all! (After all, my dad lived to be 98 years old). I hope you are feeling better ( you had mentioned a history of passing out in a previous post)."The passing out is just a result of being a girl and has happened ever since I was 12 except the 5 years when I found a pill that worked....which I now can't have due to age even though the only thing wrong with me (other than internal organs which refuse to be age appropriate) was fixed by it (only passed out once in the whole 5 years vs multiple times a month before and even had my iron levels back into the normal range by the end). Once my organs decide to be age appropriate and show a sign of perimenopause I can have HRT which should do the same thing but atm I'm stuck in that too old but body won't accept it phase. It sucks being female sometimes.
Theresa wrote: "A friend of mine developed a hand tremor out of the blue - and she is a writer and stitcher! Tgere was no famiky history, no 9ne could figure it out, it was wortisome and bothersome. About 2 years ..."Make sure they do an ENA screen for Lupus not an ANA as ANA can show a weak positive even if you don't have Lupus. It can be a cause of low iron so They tested me for that too as an excuse to take me off the pill (of course I read up on it and since it reduces mobility in joints as a first symptom and shows symptoms in most 20 years before now I knew someone as bendy as me couldn't have it but the doctor was determined. Also tested me for coeliac disease even though I would have to live on the toilet with my diet if I had that.).
It's an easy test so worth doing if they think it might be the cause but it's expensive as also involves genetic screening (at least here they look for the genes not just antibodies....ditto coeliac).
As Nancy notes there are so many great newer books, one worries about leaving them out. (view spoiler)
Booknblues wrote: "As Nancy notes there are so many great newer books, one worries about leaving them out. [spoilers removed]"Color me intrigued.
I was hoping someone would help me narrow it down by telling me which of my top choices (**) were already nominated. Oh well.
Anita, I forgot I have to go out tonight, so I hope it's OK to submit the ballot when I get home.
So long as it is before the 21st Nancy! All good!
NancyJ wrote: " (If anyone is willing to share that they already voted for one of these, I could knock if off the list.) ..."Why would you do that? The more people who vote for a specific book, the greater chance it would have to be added to the list.
I think she means to get it on the list so we can vote for it. We each get to nominate a different book and then we will all get to vote on the nominations. Nancy, I saw the hearts, invisible furies on your list. I was sort of hoping someone had nominated it. I don’t know if anyone has. The only nominations I know of for sure on my own and Theresa‘s. Because I remarked that her nomination was also on my list of 15, which did also include the hearts, invisible furies. That was the match between us both.
Book Concierge wrote: "NancyJ wrote: " (If anyone is willing to share that they already voted for one of these, I could knock if off the list.) ..."Why would you do that? The more people who vote for a specific book, t..."
I think we’re just nominating books now, so a book only needs one nomination to get on the ballot. We can’t vote until we see the whole list. That’s how I read it.
Amy wrote: "I think she means to get it on the list so we can vote for it. We each get to nominate a different book and then we will all get to vote on the nominations. Nancy, I saw the hearts, invisible furie..."Thanks Amy
Nancy is correct in her assessment on how the next step will work.Basically, I will provide a ballot that will include all the books that were voted off (6 or more votes for removal) AND all of your nominees. You will be given the opportunity to vote for the ones you'd like to see fill the open slots on our list.
Some books that people wanted removed will make it back onto the list, and some new ones that were nominated will replace former listed books.
Then, we will move onto non-fiction!
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The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (other topics)Frederica (other topics)
Frederica (other topics)
East of Eden (other topics)
Flowers for Algernon (other topics)
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I don't think so! The original list was compiled by nominations only (sort ..."
I loved Mrs. Dalloway, but I'm not sure I would have thought of it if I didn't spot one of her other books on the list. (I didn't like that one as much, but it's probably a better example of her unique style). I'm warming up to the one book restriction because it's nice to see unique titles that you know are truly special to someone in the group. We don't need to match all the other lists out there.