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Ten Battles Every Catholic Should Know
Ten Battles - June 2023 BOTM
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John
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Jun 03, 2023 03:33AM
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As a pacifist, I have no interest in reading about battles of any sort. I'd be curious to know why others find it fascinating.
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Good reply Professor :-). I do not say anything to the author when you give the permission i Will say that his book was chosen.
It's perhaps a more masculine thing to find the details of battle interesting. At least that's what I've heard from teachers of same-sex classes, that girls don't want to linger on how the battle lines were drawn up and the action played out.
Jill, many of these battles took place because, unfortunately, Islam, after the death of Muhammad in 632, expanded by military means. John, I may have missed it in our reading, but I haven’t seen mention of Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours.“It is not hyperbole to suggest that the Battle of Tours was the most important battle in European history prior to the Battle of Hastings in 1066. . . It was Charles Martel’s decisive defeat of the Moors at Tours in 732 that kept the Muslims from expanding north of their westernmost foothold, Spain. Charles Martel probably did not understand the implications of his victory but . . . to many historians, his greatest legacy is his role of the savior of Europe in driving back a force that threatened Western civilization. . . “ (Tried by Fire, by William J. Bennett, pages 304-305.)
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Probably the author of this book assumed that the battle of Tours (or Poitiers, as it's sometimes called) is well-known by Catholics. This book deals essentially with battles in the Eastern European front. If he had included the Western European front, he could have added many more battles, many of them in Spain: Guadalete, Covadonga, Valdejunquera, Bairén, Las Navas de Tolosa, el Salado...
Absolutely truth, even battles in countries as Italy.
About this question i think that we could ask to the author. I am friend of Mr. Greaney in Facebook and i would not cost anything that we are discussing about his book but i wait the permission of the moderators for not committing old mistakes :-).
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Fonch, please feel free to let Mr. Grealey know we are discussing his book and ask if he would be interested in answering questions or otherwise taking part in the discussion.
Mod
And before his death as well.
re Tours or Poitiers, if you are familiar with a good history of the events, please feel free to suggest it in the nominations thread.
I have the reply of Mr. Greaney nowadays he is singing in the choir "Thank you for letting me know. My internet service is sporadic, but I will try to participate" "I just saw the questions, but didn't read them yet as I have to get ready for Mass — i sing in the choir, so there's no escape!"
I got a similar comment right after the book was published. It is important even for pacifists to know how and why wars and battles occur to be able to avoid or stop them. That is why I tried to give the context of each battle, not just the fighting. As I tried to make clear, about half the battles in the book could have been avoided had people acted more rationally, or more in keeping with the teachings of their own faiths; the betrayal of Diogenes Romanus by the bureaucrats in Constantinople may be said to have caused the battle of Manizkert; they were certainly responsible for losing it. The efforts of the Ottomans to conquer Europe resulted in centuries of warfare because people did not care to be slaves of the Ottomans. Whether they were right or wrong to resist is a matter for the reader to decide, but the fact remains they chose to resist, not sit back and become a part of the Ottoman Empire. The bottom line is that if you do not know how or why battles and wars come about, you are far more likely to have new ones; as I quote in the intro, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I just realized that my latest book from TAN presents a program specifically intended to remove the primary causes of poverty, racism, and war: "The Greater Reset." It is also at this time (the month of June 2023) having a promotional sale at TAN for $5 a copy, unlimited quantities (the first edition; they want to clear out the inventory to make room for the second edition, which will have notice of the imprimatur). Consider it a sequel to "Ten Battles" that tells you how to have no more battles in the future. If you buy massive quantities and review it, the second edition will be out that much sooner.https://tanbooks.com/contemporary-iss...
Michael wrote: "I got a similar comment right after the book was published. It is important even for pacifists to know how and why wars and battles occur to be able to avoid or stop them. That is why I tried to gi..."I believe that the subject of pacifism has already been addressed in other book discussions. As much as we want it. I know this after reading Vico, man seeks to survive, and violence is a survival mechanism. Although Christianity defends that it must be the last resort. We saw how St. John the Baptist did not order the soldiers to stop killing, but to be content with their pay. Jesus himself used violence against the merchants of the Temple, and Christianity also did not abolish war, but defends the concept of just war in justified cases. I think of St. Thomas Aquinas, or the Salamanca School Father of International Law. Islam has never renounced the concept of Jihad, nor has it condemned it, if someone attacks you, and forces you to convert to their religion by force you have to defend yourself.
Michael wrote: "I got a similar comment right after the book was published. It is important even for pacifists to know how and why wars and battles occur to be able to avoid or stop them. That is why I tried to gi..."Regarding the Crusades, they have been condemned, as anti-Christians, and Christians, and the fourth crusade has been talked about ad nauseam, as was the beginning of the fall of the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire. But I have to ask a question to the participants in this discussion. How long would Byzantium have lasted without the help of the Latins? I want to remind you that the one who asked Urban II for help was Emperor Alexios I Komnenos. There is much talk of friction, and of the fights between Crusaders, and Byzantines, and as in the first crusade they entered killing, murdering, and fighting with the Byzantines. We speak of the disunity of Christians. How long did it take for the Muslims to get to each other? Of the Abassie Empire there was nothing left but Baghdad, they were in the hands of the Ghaznavi Turks, or Seljuks, and of the Fatimid Shiites in Egypt. In Spain we know it as soon as we conquered Spain, the Berbers, Arabs, and Syrians among them were already beating each other, because the booty they had taken was little. Before Abd al-Rahman III arrived, they were killing each other (not to mention that the Umayyad Abd al-Rahman I escaped a conspiracy from House Abassie. The Umayyads themselves arrived in the same way by killing Ali, and Hussein, and from there the Shiites are born). Comparing the enmity between Byzantines and Latins. The Almoravides, who went to save the decadent taifas, after the collapse of the Umayyads in Spain. After defeating Alfonso VI at Zalaca (1086). How long did it take for the Almoravids to return and turn against the taifas that in the name of Islam came to save from the Christians? They took much less time to confront each other than the Latins, and the Greeks.
We must also recognize one thing that does not leave the Greeks well, and that is that before the excommunication made by Peter Damian, Umberto Silvacandida, and Borromeo Patriarch Michael Cerularius himself had organized persecutions, and massacres against the Latins, and the same the Emperor Andronikos I. What I say is that you have to analyze things according to their context.
Before the Crusades, and the battles that appear in Mr. D. Greaney's book could give examples of previous Muslim attacks by Muslims against Christians. Even in the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad. Before the battle of Yarmouk (636), although Christians and Jews were supposed to be people of the book, and were not to be persecuted. Even if they don't persecute us, or the Jews. Is violence against pagan Yazidis, Buddhists, Parsis, Hindus justified? It is an issue that is not discussed, but the conquest of Islam from India was brutal, and this is not what Western historiography is about.
My mother's family comes from the Anabaptist tradition in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and were long ago "Old Order" Amish. The Amish are true pacifists, refusing to provoke others by thought, word, or deed in addition to not instigating violence or defending themselves. I have to contrast this with SOME pacifists today who provoke others by demonstrating, insulting, or otherwise attacking them in a non-physical manner. Even Dorothy Day did not meet the Amish idea of pacifism when she protested war and violence, as to the Amish way of thinking even that is provocation.
Michael wrote: "My mother's family comes from the Anabaptist tradition in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and were long ago "Old Order" Amish. The Amish are true pacifists, refusing to provoke others by thought, w..."On this subject there is a film by William Wyler that I like very much called Friendly Persuasion starring Gary Cooper, and Anthony Perkins who speaks precisely of this in the end all the members of the family end up betraying their religious principles, and pacifists except Gary Cooper who was the one who at first seemed to take them less seriously, and we have the wonderful film directed by Mel Gibson played by Andrew Garfield Hacksaw Ridge inspired by the life of Desmond Dodge that has maintained the balance between pacifism, and patriotism.
By the way it is a very interesting reflection, and very good anecdote. I believe that if you repress the violence, in the end it ends up going somewhere else. Since we have it, we must use it for a just, legitimate, and less perverse end.
I just finished the volume. It was a great read. So glad the club did it. It has been on my 'to be read' pile for a while.
Steven R. wrote: "I just finished the volume. It was a great read. So glad the club did it. It has been on my 'to be read' pile for a while."I personally am glad to be able to enjoy Steven, and that he has joined us in the discussion.
Steven R. wrote: "I just finished the volume. It was a great read. So glad the club did it. It has been on my 'to be read' pile for a while."My Father thanks you, my mother thanks you, my sister thanks you . . . and I thank you. (Now you have to post a review on Amazon or TAN.)
