What are we reading? 29 May 2023

[scarletnoir]

Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: " by Mercedes Rosende (trans. Tim Gutteridge, published by Bitter Lemon Press.)...

Thanks for the review scarlet. I did a sweep at GR comments, sounds also very good to me.
Both are translated. And published by the Unionsverlag in Zurich. They started with working-class literature and soon concentrated on translating books by unknown, or little known writers, many of them non-European. Still flourishing after 48 years as an independent with the original founder at the helm. As for translations: there is almost a guarantee that it will be good. They treat translators as "authors" in their own right. Which got them an award from the German Association of Translators.
..."

Thanks for that - so if you are attracted, you get the choice to read the books in either German or English.

I'm a bit mystified by the very poor 'grade' on Amazon for the French translation. My first guess is that it was a poor job; I suppose it's possible - though I don't see why - that the style might not appeal to French readers. As I mention, the direct comments to us - not quite 'Dear Reader', but not that different in a way - might well displease some potential readers.

None of the French people who graded the book left a review, which seems odd (suspicious?). It's peculiar.

[Georg]

Gpfr wrote: "Lass wrote: "Re Anne Tyler. They’re all worth reading, and in my case, re-reading."

Agreed 100%!"

Thirded. At least for the early ones (gave up on "A Spool of Blue Thread", the only recent-ish book I've read of hers, about 60% in)

[Gpfr]

Georg wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Lass wrote: "Re Anne Tyler.

gave up on "A Spool of Blue Thread", the only recent-ish book I've read of hers, about 60% in ..."

You should try French Braid, I thought it really excellent.

[AB76]

The G are even getting silly over profiles images

i wanted to change my image of the first USA A-bomb experiments with a still from Miami Vice series 1, no violence just Tubbs n Crockett but they didnt change it, cant think why they did that

[Bill]

Georg wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Lass wrote: "Re Anne Tyler. They’re all worth reading, and in my case, re-reading."

Agreed 100%!"

Thirded. At least for the early ones (gave up on "A Spool of Blue Thread" ..."

Since there is such unanimity on Anne Tyler, I feel the need to put in my lone voice of dissent. I’ve only read The Accidental Tourist, and found it disappointing, though it does have some well done comic moments and one insightful characterization that the author seems not to have recognized as such.

I found the novel too heavy for a comic novel and too lighthearted for a serious work. The opening chapter features, in flashback, a child’s murder in an act of mass gun violence, which I think was likely a misjudgment in 1985 when the novel was published, and has only become more so with the passage of time. The novel never deals adequately with the horror and grief of that opening premise.

[scarletnoir]

Bill wrote: "The novel never deals adequately with the horror and grief of that opening premise."

An interesting criticism. Tyler is usually criticised for being too cosy!

I'm sure Tyler does not intend to write 'message' books, but if there is one it's the perfectly reasonable one that 'life goes on' in spite of everything.

[Gpfr]

Uploaded some Amsterdam photos.

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "Uploaded some Amsterdam photos."

great photos, its such an interesting city and so well preserved in the centre, those awkward tall thin houses and the amazing network of canals

coincidentally i picked up a collection of essays on the dutch 17th century from Oxfam

[CCCubbon]

Bill wrote: "Georg wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Lass wrote: "Re Anne Tyler. They’re all worth reading, and in my case, re-reading."

Agreed 100%!"

Thirded. At least for the early ones (gave up on "A Spool of Blue Thre..."

I have never read any Tyler books. Did try once - read a few pages - don’t know which one it was but found it boring. Sorry.

[Bill]

Yesterday I finished Book 2 of The Faerie Queene – though a few of the characters from the first Book linger on into its first canto, the main action of the second Book concerns the adventures Sir Guyon (Temperance). “Temperance” might be better understood as “moderation” in modern terms, the avoidance of extremes and the exercise of self-control.

Unlike the first book, there is little or no emphasis on religious doctrine, although Sir Guyon is accompanied on most of his adventures by an aged Palmer (pilgrim from the Holy Land). The Palmer is there to offer timely warnings, advice, and on occasion (but rarely, perhaps fitting the theme of Temperance) perform acts of minor wizardry. Though there are some battles with Pagan knights, the main emphasis in the Book is on Guyon exercising mastery over his own impulses and emotions when confronted by such temptations as the Cave of Mammon, the Lake of Idleness, and, climactically, the sexually seductive Bower of Bliss, presided over by a Circe-like enchantress.

The message of self-mastery is voiced by Guyon in the fifth canto:

Losse is no shame, nor to be lesse then foe,
But to be lesser, then himselfe, doth marre
Both loosers lot, and victours prayse alsoe.
Vaine others ouerthrowes, who selfe doth ouerthrowe.

I found this somewhat similar to the moral expressed in the Monteverdi- Striggio opera L’Orfeo, a work almost contemporary with Spenser’s poem:

Degno d’eterna gloria
Fia sol colui ch’avrà disè vittoria.

(Worthy of eternal glory / Is the one who will have victory over himself.)

When Guyon moves from meeting temptation with mostly passive resistance to active destruction at the end of the Book, I found it rather jarring. His destruction of the Bower of Bliss struck me more as a Taliban-like act of self-righteous vandalism rather than an exercise of morality.

[[deleted user]]

Bill wrote: "Yesterday I finished Book 2 of The Faerie Queene..."

I’d got the impression somehow that The Faerie Queene was intended to be more entertaining than instructive. I’ll be very interested to see your comments on the later Books. At the moment it seems as though it has a strong moral tone, especially when the Bower of Bliss is brought to destruction.

[[deleted user]]

And now for something completely different.

While Justice Sleeps – Stacey Abrams (2022)

I’d read that Ms Abrams wrote thrillers in her spare time, including some racy 007-style spy thrillers under a pseudonym, so was interested to try one.

As thrillers go, this best-seller is not bad at all. It centres round a question probably long known to beltway insiders. Apart from impeachment, there are two ways for a Justice to leave the Supreme Court – by resigning or by dying. What happens if a Justice, who happens to be the swing vote, all of a sudden falls into a coma?

Well, for a start, a lot of skulduggery. The President has issued an order blocking an international bio-engineering merger. The lower court declined to set aside the order. So, without that fifth vote, the order is likely to stand. Anyone who interferes may face termination with extreme prejudice.

Throw in military-grade computer skills, chess mastery, phone cloning, a trail of impenetrable clues, a run for re-election, a battle for guardianship, and a clerk with an eidetic memory (which I had to look up), and you have quite a mix. It is all plot, and the implausibility is on a sharp upward path. I’m impressed the author was able to keep it straight in her head for 450 pages. The downside is that, if the main characters each come with some sort of life story, their actual personalities are more like chess pieces.

I’d like to see Ms Abrams tackle something that is personality-driven rather than plot-driven. There are a couple of very good nuanced scenes in which the clerk and another character exchange conversational rapier thrusts, which shows she can do it. Until then, one is enough for me.

[AB76]

Jeffrey Archer: A Prison Diary Vo, 2: Purgatory, follows his first volume as a record of his time in prison during the summer of 2001, which i remember well as it was my last summer living in the parental home...

Archer is not a favourite character of mine by any measure, i have never read his books or shared his politics but he manages to write well about the british penal system, which at 22 years remove is possibly in a worse state and mixes humour with some realist observations of the vicious cycle of the incarcerated individual.

[giveusaclue]

AB76 wrote: "Jeffrey Archer: A Prison Diary Vo, 2: Purgatory, follows his first volume as a record of his time in prison during the summer of 2001, which i remember well as it was my last summer living in the p..."

At least he never whinged or blamed other people unlike a certain ginger royal

[AB76]

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Jeffrey Archer: A Prison Diary Vo, 2: Purgatory, follows his first volume as a record of his time in prison during the summer of 2001, which i remember well as it was my last summer li..."

exactly....Harry has been a public joke over the last year or so, its quite amazing to see how self centered and blinkered he has become. i guess somebody told him there was money to be made in publicly throwing your father and older brother under a bus of bitter revelations.

[Bill]

Russell wrote: "I’d got the impression somehow that The Faerie Queene was intended to be more entertaining than instructive."

For the most part, the poem holds the reader's interest and moves along pretty well, but so far I would say, much of it doesn't really hold together as a pure adventure tale without taking its allegoric underpinnings into consideration. Naming conventions like the Cave of Mammon tend to underscore the symbolism intended by the author rather than allowing it to lie beneath the surface of the narrative.

I've previously read and enjoyed The Liberation of Jerusalem, which was one of Spenser's immediate influences. I'm thinking at the moment that I should have read another major influence, Orlando Furioso before (or even instead of) undertaking Spenser, though the copy of The Faerie Queene I'm reading has been on my shelves for well over 30 years and it seemed about time I should get around to reading it.

[AB76]

Reaching the last third of The Mandelbaum Gate by Muriel Spark(1965) and i'm impressed, it is certainly different to her previous novels up to 1965, there are suggestions its more ambitious and deeper than her other novels.

Without spoilers, it involves a lot of deception, secrets and surfaces that move backwards and fowards in time. A section is set a few weeks after another, or tells of an incident that had only been vaguely referred to before. This approach doesnt muddy the waters like experimental novels can do and instead creates an interesting tension.

The world of pre-1967 Holy Land is so removed from 2023 that a lot of the details may confuse people not familiar with the history, such as the Jordanian hostility towards Israel and the uneasy divided city of Jerusalem. Spark's telltale wit is present and as superb as ever but with a wider plot and intrigue than her earlier novels......

[AB76]

Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really, not sure why). I am not a binge reader and usually sit for a few reads a day, in some ways i dont know if i actually qualify as a bookworm, as i let most reading unfold steadily over a period. With around 70 books max read a year, of which probably half are novels.

[giveusaclue]

AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really, not sure why). I am not a binge reader ..."

Slow coach! 2/3 days for me. But, of course, I am retired. Non-fiction/serious books take longer

[Fuzzywuzz]

@Giveusaclue, thanks for the links. I'm fairly certain someone here may have mentioned the Peter Robinson series previously (it might have been you?)

[Fuzzywuzz]

AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

About a week, fitting reading time around work. I could read one in 2 days if I wasn't doing much else.

[AB76]

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really, not sure why). I am not a ..."

that is quick, i used lockdown(2020-1) as a measure if i would read more with time on my hands (less commuting etc) but oddly i didnt read much more, or watch much more, which is a sign that even when far less busy, my approach didnt change

[Gpfr]

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really,..."

2/3 days for me. But, of course, I am retired. Non-fiction/serious books take longer"

About the same for me, or maybe less for some books.

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really,..."

2..."

so from what many of you are saying, your reading is quite concentrated then? i do feel very slow now...some books i finish quicker than 12 days and forgot to mention i wouldnt read every one of those 12 days

more accurately it takes me about 7 sittings to finish a novel but i have never measured how long each sitting is...

[[deleted user]]

Bill wrote: "Russell wrote: "I’d got the impression somehow that The Faerie Queene was intended to be more entertaining than instructive."

For the most part, the poem holds the reader's interest and moves along pretty well..."

It was my father who would talk with admiration of The Faerie Queene but he was never quite able to get me to start it! One of our sons has read all those long romances and thinks the most lively and interesting is indeed Orlando Furioso, so I’m considering that as well. The best translation in his view is the recent one by AS Kline, which has the advantage of a lot of fine illustrations by Doré.

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?"

There's no sensible answer to this, as there's no such thing as an 'average' novel.

My reading speed depends entirely on how much I'm enjoying a book, and how 'difficult' it is. I read Anne Tyler's 342 page 'French Braid' in two days. Mercedes Rosende's 270 page 'The Hand that Feeds You' took 3-4 days, but I think there were more words per page. I should think around 5 days is typical, but if I take against a book (say, 'Stoner') I read fewer and fewer pages per day until I bin it, so it can take ages. Usually, before the final decision, I start to read another book in parallel...

[Bill]

Russell wrote: "One of our sons has read all those long romances and thinks the most lively and interesting is indeed Orlando Furioso, so I’m considering that as well. The best translation in his view is the recent one by AS Kline, which has the advantage of a lot of fine illustrations by Doré."

I have the verse translation by Barbara Reynolds, published in two volumes by Penguin, but also have a separate Dover publication of the Doré illustrations, many of which contain humorous details, which would seem to indicate that he thought the epic was not entirely serious in intent.

[[deleted user]]

Bill wrote: "...I have the verse translation by Barbara Reynolds..."

Barbara Reynolds – Our son says it is very good, and accurate, but gives the impression of being restrained.

FWIW, he says the translation by David Slavitt is the most fun but that it quite often takes liberties, and covers only the first 25 cantos.

[giveusaclue]

Fuzzywuzz wrote: "@Giveusaclue, thanks for the links. I'm fairly certain someone here may have mentioned the Peter Robinson series previously (it might have been you?)"

Quite probably!

[Berkley]

Bill wrote: "Russell wrote: "One of our sons has read all those long romances and thinks the most lively and interesting is indeed Orlando Furioso, so I’m considering that as well. The best translation in his view is the recent one by AS Kline, which has the advantage of a lot of fine illustrations by Doré."

I have the verse translation by Barbara Reynolds, published in two volumes by Penguin, but also have a separate Dover publication of the Doré illustrations, many of which contain humorous details, which would seem to indicate that he thought the epic was not entirely serious in intent."

I read the Reynolds one around 25 years ago and liked it but I'm planning to read the William Stewart Rose translation (1823-31) soon.

[[deleted user]]

Berkley wrote: "I read the Reynolds one around 25 years ago and liked it but I'm planning to read the William Stewart Rose translation (1823-31) soon. "

Our son again - he's read about ten cantos of the W.S. Rose translation and quite liked it but - not to put you off - found it a bit stodgy.

He also mentions that he keeps the Guido Waldman prose translation to hand as that allows him to check the verse translations for accuracy.

[Berkley]

Russell wrote: "Berkley wrote: "I read the Reynolds one around 25 years ago and liked it but I'm planning to read the William Stewart Rose translation (1823-31) soon. "

Our son again - he's read about ten cantos of the W.S. Rose translation and quite liked it but - not to put you off - found it a bit stodgy.

He also mentions that he keeps the Guido Waldman prose translation to hand as that allows him to check the verse translations for accuracy."

Yes, that's the reputation of the Rose but I'm motivated to read it, if only as part of the early 19th-century milieu in which I'm currently wallowing.

Stodginess might be the characteristic failing of Victorian* culture in general and language in particular, as flatness and banality are of 20th-21st century English-language writing. So i'm willing to accept that drawback in exchange for other advantages - for example, the ease and facility of versifying that I think 19th century writers had that their 20th-21st century counterparts don't, through no fault of their own apart from having been born when they were.


*(Rose's Ariosto came out just before the beginning of Queen Victoria's reign, but the trend towards ostentatious morality was already well underway in England, as I was reminded once again while reading Thomas Moore's Life, Letters, etc of Lord Byron).

[[deleted user]]

Berkley wrote: "...Stodginess might be the characteristic failing of Victorian* culture in general and language in particular, as flatness and banality are of 20th-21st century English-language writing. So i'm willing to accept that drawback in exchange for other advantages - for example, the ease and facility of versifying..."

So true! It's sad how contemporary fiction-writing is, with a few exceptions, so unattractive.

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "Question: how long does it take for anyone to read an average novel?

I seem to read most novels within 10-12 days (i dont count non-fiction the same really, not sure why). I am not a binge reader ..."

If it's a crackin' police procedural (type - because it can be a sleuth team which counts in my book), I have been known to just sit and read 'til the end. Will power is not a personal characteristic, plus I live alone which is a great help.

Then there are the weighty history tomes that I get from the library. Unfortunately, my current one - has holds on it which means I'd better stop at a chapter end, so I will know where to start when I get it back in a month or two.

By the way, this is the first book I've read by Martyn Rady, and I am finding it an easy read. Recommended - at least so far.

[MK]

It's my own fault for signing up for too many newsletters. With only 4 days concentrating on my Portland to-do list, my inbox required some serious culling this morning.

During that culling I found a book (at an older History Today weekly email) which @Clue might find interesting. Too bad that she will have to travel to Manchester (see worldcat.org for reference) to take a look at Monsieur. Second Sons in the Monarchy of France, 1550–1800.

Here's a teaser from the History Today piece -

Heirs and Spares
It was not easy to be the second son. The younger brothers of the French kings could choose either to rebel or reconcile, but neither option was straightforward.

Of course I assume the same holds true in the UK.

[MK]

So I'm in the car on Friday listening to OPB (Oregon Public Broadcasting) and hearing about this book Hi Honey, I’m Homo! in an author interview. Dismissing the somewhat over-the-top title, I found the evolution of 'it's okay to be a homosexual on American TV' really interesting. So much so that I've marked my calendar for his appearance at my local library later this month.

You can listen to the interview here - https://www.opb.org/article/2023/06/0...

[Gpfr]

@scarletnoir
You were right that the church one can see in the background of my evening in Amsterdam photo is St Nicolaas.

[AB76]

a hot weekend in the shires, the first truly brutal warmth of 2023, with 30c on saturday and 28c today

Spent today with my parents and neices and nephews, a lovely tonic as they leapt about, unbothered by the warmth

So no reading done, a heavy downpour was welcome at 4pm, took some of the warmth away

[MK]

Sorry to put up a political type of post, but this summary of Trump by Philip Bump of the Washington Post says it all (gift article)
https://wapo.st/45PQnKm

[AB76]

The jury is rather out on the first few chapters of The Hills of Adonis by Colin Thubron.

Ostensibly it seems to be about Lebanon in the mid 1960s but so far its been a sucession of tales of long lost gods, kings and cultures that could lead me to dump it. I like Thubron but Lebanon in mid 1960s was at a fascinating junction in history, he instead seems lost in another world, far in the past.

[Robert]

The Guardian has an interesting review of a new book on Petain's collaborationist government, his subsequent trial for treason, and his legacy. Having just finished the biography of Pius XII as wartime pope, the period is fresh in my mind; but to follow the one with the other might be too, too depressing. (I will reserve it at the library, anyway.)