Andrew Davidson “The Gargoyle” (2008)

[Kerri]

I also thought this was interesting - in Hell, when he tells Sigurdr that he has already heard his story, Sigurdr says, "No. You've heard Marianne's version of my story, which is a different thing. How do you dare to think you know my heart, when you don't even understand your own?"

I have been thinking about this quite a bit. Especially the 'Marianne's version' part, which I found particularly striking! We all end up interpreting a story out own way, or perhaps having our own version in the retelling, and it's interesting to consider that the subject of one of Marianne's stories might not view it in the same way she does. Perhaps I'm over thinking it, but I loved this comment, thrown out by the viking from long ago!

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

I feel that Andrew Davidson leapt to an assumption of contrast. You & I concluded that everyone would freak out about disfigurement the same. I am compassionate but can't bear to see it. I think a head injury is like wondering about a scratch in the pain, reconstruction, and mental trauma Ulrich was dealing with. I think it is helpful to learn about burn survival but think this novel would have been as successful without it. I was surprised Andrew didn't have Ulrich getting a doctor's note to obtain new identification for banks and whatnot.

Now comes the fun part, of discussing whatever you propose and looking for subjects I tried to introduce when you were away.

The trip to hell was among my favourites, one of the reasons I consider Andrew original and unique! It is enough to cover numerous countries to a degree that had to have been researched meticulously, wouldn't you say?

This is what I hoped Shirin would appreciate above two stars, despite disliking the protagonist and the introduction. I would enjoy her explanation if she ever sees this. I don't know if it was a coincidence or cultural but she originally liked the novel and humour, despite the awful burns we see right away. Thinking the former profession was revealed earlier than perhaps it was, I apologize for saying too early that Ulrich had been a pornography actor. After that, Shirin couldn't stand the novel. She reads historical fiction all the time, you would think she would have a field day with all the ages and countries she visited.

If pornography turns up most of our noses, what her culture make of it, who reserves sexuality as sacredly as many more people should, too? Was that where she lost her patience and interest? Kerri, did the descriptions of his former job and medical / mental recovery go on too long? He stopped discussing the job eventually but had to keep healing from then on. However, was that interesting to you, or did the ancient stories give ample breaks from it? For the first time, this is when I myself preferred the ancient stories to the modern scenes.

Did you find the ancient scenes lacking in action like Shirin did? Were they too tame for a fantasy fan? My impression is remembering that a lot of major things happened that I wouldn't want to face. Did they lose a baby or did she / he grow up? One more question you have me puzzled about here. I thought Marianna went to hell, Iceland, Japan, Germany, and somewhere else. Did figures met in other countries gathered in hell for that super atmospheric, suspenseful visit? Please help me remember everywhere she went, in case my review did not name the countries.

I am happy not to remember Marianna cutting herself. Hoewver, you led to an excellent conversation piece that we might spend time on, Kerri! This is the stuff great book conversations are made of, finally! :) Yes, there is ample proof that Marianne really is hundreds of years old. Which year was she born in Germany? What is her last name there? Was she an orphan or young novice? I would have great fun listing the proof, wouldn't you? Having the books she does, using verifiable ancient caligraphy as her natural handwriting, and having the memories and knowledge she does. Her library is not just old but multilingual. The final proof I remember is that something, I don't recall what, gets Ulrich to have past life memories. That is in a late chapter, isn't it?

To recap: countries, Marianne's birth and name, and proof of ancient age are things I would delight in collaborating with you to compile.

What I meant by you introducing a great subject is about whether or not Marianne has developed mental duress or illness that has nothing to do with everything being real. That is very astute of you. What I suggest is that living for 500 or the number of years you fill in for us, takes a toll on the body and mind that does not usually go on 5x as long. Did she say she was born with extra hearts, hence not dying naturally?

I would look forward to the afterlife with my loved-ones by then and don't blame Marianne for having had enough. She has children, parents, Grandparents, animals, friends to look forward to. But it is one soul that reincarnates so if Ulrich is here, he is not in Heaven. Why go now that they are together on Earth? Was she fated to find him, did she search in present day, or was she fortunate to recognize him at the hospital?

I'm not keen on the subject of story perspectives because that is an easy way for historians and students to dismiss what someone has taken the time to record and preserve. If we said a story is always different from person to person, it would create an endless argument. I like instead, to think we zero in on different elements and contribute to remembering different things together for the full picture. You did convey an important lesson that Ulrich's memories are valuable too. To test that this was the message, did he have his recall back by the time the Viking said that?

Anyway, you know how every profile bio declares that the member loves discussing books? Have you tried politely commenting with an additional perspective or in respectful disagreement and received the closing-off comment: "everyone's opinions are different"? I have found that few people want to discuss books here but instead, only want you to write "nice review" and leave. Others want to argue like assholes. A truly open conversationalist like you is a gem, my dear Kerri!

The potential stalemate about different perspectives reminded me of that closing down statement about "everyone being different". It does not invite conversation. I love exploring differences if people are open to swaying or appreciating other views at least. It is fun and invigorating when you find someone who really puts thought into it and enjoys it too.

While readers like and dislike personal things, like misophonia hampering me from tolerating certain vocabulary; there is such a thing as someone not GETTING what was awesome and unique about some books. So I share it, in hopes they will enjoy it and see it, like no one ever recognizing non crime mysteries. :) Some people read too much, too fast, or EXPECT one mystery to have the formula of others and miss special attributes that are obvious to me. I look for them. I also wonder if free e-reading has stopped people from appreciating books as much as they normally would.

As for Ulrich ending up by himself, I guess he he healed enough to do that and is well prepared. He gets physiotherapy, presumably therapy as well, and is safe financially including if doctors help him reclaim his bank access and various accounts and ID cards. But he has made a friend in Marianne's manager. Is her name Linda?

Haha, the words for filmmaking are "filmmaker", "director", and "producer". In 2008, with the internet beginning to get faster (but not southeastern Manitoba along with it), Ulrich could write, direct, or switch and do a lot of things remotely. I see Linda being his go-between representative.

I don't remember him seeming to be heartbroken, after Marianne sufficiently explained why she didn't want to continue living despite finding him. If I remember right, he understood and was prepared to carry on in a new life and push past the physical and emotional difficulty.

The next time you write, you will be able to tell us how you liked this novel and what degree of complexity you felt Andrew achieved. Manitobans write a broad variety of things, that you have read enough of to know! I say the same about New Zealand and appreciate your education from there too.

[Kerri]

I enjoyed the trip to hell as well. That's probably what pushed me towards five stars, even if a few details didn't fully work - mainly that I would have liked a bit more detail about somethings, like how Marianne found him in hospital, as you mentioned in your review. But the trip to hell was excellent, both in originality and the way it brought together the stories Marianne had told him, plus there was a hefty dose of mythology, which I always enjoy! I loved the fever dream aspect to it, but then the element of proof that it wasn't simply a withdrawal fueled dream.

I think the amount of detail for the medical and mental recovery was quite well balanced actually. Although sometimes I looked forward to the historical sections more, I appreciate that he skip over how gruelling his recovery was, both times, past and present. As for the past career, although not my favourite aspect, I don't it was dwelled on excessively, and it did give a good insight into who he was or wasn't as a person, prior to meeting Marianne.

I thought the Ancient scenes were a slow burn, but not dull. I appreciated getting the chance to learn about the monastery, about the book making, about his first injury, and especially young Marianne. Eventually the past became very action packed, and it resonated more because I was by this point deeply invested in the characters, both him, Marianne, and his friend from the army, whose name escapes me at the moment.

In regards to the baby, once Marianne awakens after being in the icy river, she is simply no longer pregnant, as if she never had been in the first place. This loss is the probably her Great burden. She does know if the baby died, or was taken from her by God to spare her or what. She alternates between thinking it was a punishment, or a mercy, depending on the situation.

In Marianne's stories she discussed the places you mentioned, except maybe hell, and although we don't see her there, in hell all the characters/people from her stories seem to know her. How they know each other, how she knows their most intimate stories and exact details of their deaths is not explained, unless it was hinted at with the message from God she received, and I missed it! I think there was Japan, Germany, Iceland, England and Italy.

He takes two of her oldest books, including her German translation of "Inferno" to experts, first to verify their age and then to look into them further. As much as possible, all the information they obtain verifies what Marianne told him. He himself seems to alternate between believing her, and not, but by the end, he seems to believe in the past lives and that he has her final heart.

Jack, Marianne's manager, who is a woman, says that one day Marianne simply insisted on being called Marianne Engel. She didn't know her birth name or where she came from. She being Jack, as I assume Marianne believed she was in fact Marianne Engel. I do wish we had gotten a bit more information about the centuries Marianne was alone. What did she do other than build an amazing library? How did she continue to live without raising suspicion? Was she carving for centuries, or was that a more recent thing? How did find out narrator at the hospital? Did she have some sort of spiritual guidance?

I agree that living so long, especially after the death of a spouse and loss of child, would take its toll. I think she says God gives her these extra hearts, and then tells her to give them away, and the last one is for her true love.

I didn't come across a name for the narrator, although perhaps I missed it? When Marianne talks to him, past or present, she usually just calls him "you" and when she carves his name in her chest he simply says she carved my name in her chest. Also, he begins sculpting himself! And the Naked sculpture of him that she did, he continues to work on. I think he is sculpting himself into Marianne, very slowly. I'm not sure what happens when he finishes. Perhaps he dies and they are rejoined? He maintains a friendship with her manager Jack, his therapist and physiotherapist, who marry each other! And he has the dog, Bougasta (I think that was the spelling). Marianne leaves him her money, including cash to tide him over while the legal side of the will is sorted, so he doesn't have to worry about that. And he gets the house, and that amazing library which is probably a way to maintain contact with her.

Initially he blames himself for Marianne killing herself, because he knows that if he hadn't accepted her final heart, she wouldn't have been able to. And he made no effort to stop her going into the water, even though he knew what she was doing. But by the end he seems convinced that when he dies, they will be brought back together, which seems to give him peace and purpose.

I really enjoyed the novel overall, even if I wanted a few more answers, though I suppose if he doesn't get to know everything, neither do we! I liked the weaving if such a range of historical settings, mythology, the monastery in Germany, which I think was real, and the insights into book making, translation, and carving. I can see why the novel took Seven years!

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

Do you too, find people miss things about books? Individual preferences go without saying. I see it all the time. I remember the pasts being fascinating, never boring. Who says fighting amounts to action? Discovery and forging a life are adventurous to me. Yes, I loved learning that books used to be handwritten.

Are you surprised Shirin gave this novel two stars? Do you feel the originality, accurate research, and major culture variety should have earned a point even if it was not to her taste? Be honest, no glib "we all have tastes". Do you see the shift from loving the book to disliking it after I mentioned Ulrich's career?

I need that reminder, please, of how old Marianne Engel is. You confirmed Germany came first, her home country and Engel suits that. I would know German names! Thank you for reminding me about Italy and Japan.

Yes, I remembered the library contents being major proof of Marianne's long age and now I am reminded of the enthusiastic scholar. I think Ulrich refused to let him do something, perhaps borrow the book. Is that right? However, it was the most compellnig proof that she handwrote in the Germany script of her century (I really want to state it correctly). Wouldn't you say?

I am very sad to be reminded of the baby going out of her life. She must have others over the years, whether or not the other husbands were thought to be true loves in their own right. We always have a chance to love again, even if one woman or man is special in a forever way. However, it was a lapse on Andrew's part not to name and remember other children. I keep wanting to name the number of centuries!

What you appreciated and enjoyed generally as well as the hell visit, gave this five stars for you? I think that creative trip, which I thought Marianne took instead of Ulrich, made it four stars instead of five for me. I will reread my review to see my other comments. I probably wanted a greater number of answers but in the main, I hated the ending. How about you?

What an odd thing to imagine Ulrich is turning himself into Marianne. Whence does that idea come? Unless you mean in her honour, he is changing the grotesque rather than continuing it, to make one of her instead.

Yes, I said I knew the manager was a woman, which is why I wondered if her name was Linda. You can't forget her.

I hope Ulrich lives awhile but then again, I said even I would have trouble forging ahead without the main skin and appearance that makes me feel and look like myself. Maybe spiritual energy healing of some kind could have helped him. It does step in where medical limitations to the physical leave off. I guess he would be fine sticking to the house and a small circle of friends and their dog, if a homey life fulfilled him.

I guess a big discussion subject is: was Ulright right to let Marianne complete her life the way she felt she needed to? Why did she want to when he had just met her again? Why not have awhile together? Maybe her conclusion would be all right if they had had time to enjoy being a couple after he healed enough to be comfortable doing things.

I never liked Ulrich or Marianne but sympathized with them of course. I imagine that formed part of my four star grade. I remember keeping a star to acknowledge the creativity and awesome work that went into everything. Humour helped.

I wonder if you had imperfections, like I mentioned about a darkened patch or skintags, that you wanted gone but think nothing of, now that you have read these fictional problems! I am keen on anything you propose as great food for conversational thought.

[Kerri]

I suppose it often comes down whether the particular aspects being focused on are interesting to the reader. If the monastery or the book writing isn't thrilling, probably the reading becomes a slog! For me, those were the bits that balanced neither of the leads being especially likeable. But if Shirin disliked the past aspect too, there is no respite from a less appealing aspect. If the career was the main issue, perhaps it made him too irredeemable to feel invested in? It might not be missing something as much as not connecting. I have certainly read books that objectively speaking were probably good or at least creative, that I just couldn't take to.

She claims they first met in the 14th century. I'm not sure how long a life span that is though, as I'm not sure when the present was taking place. VHS was an option, so not too long ago. I think it mentioned about 700 years, though I'm not sure if they meant her age, or the time span between their first meeting. The medieval Germany setting was such an interesting era to choose, by the way! I'd never given it much thought, but I always looked forward to returning there in the book.

The scholar wanted to do more in depth study of the book, because it would rearrange timelines for Dante translations, and he wanted permission to reveal the manuscript so he could access more information, but the narrator wouldn't let him. I guess for now All he wanted was confirmation of the manuscripts age.

One of my few dislikes was that Marianne provided no information about her life in the centuries between their meetings. What he learned, he learned from Jack, and that only went back to Marianne being a teenager, when Jack met her. That made me wonder as to whether Marianne used the same body for all that time, or reincarnated in some way. Unless she was only a teenager when she met him the first time? But she wasn't a teenager the second time, so some visual aging must have taken place.

Other than the hell time, I loved all the initially appearing to be unrelated stories that took place all over the world, at varying times. Sometimes I actually enjoyed these more than the main past story, especially the Icelandic and Japanese ones. I also appreciated the way the novel had humour, even when particularly gruelling. I think the unexpected laughs made the characters more appealing, even though I didn't exactly like either one of them. I also liked the hospital staff that surrounded him initially, especially the ones that became his friends.

I'm torn as to whether he should have let her kill herself or not. Ordinarily I would say he should have made some effort, yet I also understand that they weren't in an ordinary situation. I did wonder why they wouldn't live out their lives together. Why wait all that time, and then leave him behind? I get that she feels they will be reunited when he dies too, and perhaps she feels that to her that will be no time at all, but why not take both opportunities to be together? This felt quite selfish, like she was blatantly prioritising herself, never mind that the man she claims to love could do with having her around. She leaves him money and a house, but does that substitute what she claims is true love? Or is it true love to accept what someone wants, even if it doesn't make sense?

I have a few scars that I am not particularly keen on and things like that, but definitely appreciate, especially throughout the reading process, that most are easy to cover up, and luckily the don't affect my mobility. Two are on my neck, so are often visible, but if course this easier than anything he experiences in the novel!

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I am happy to continue our conversation today! We are at good parts, including new topics you are inspiring! Your ponderment of Shirin's dislike was informative. Although I usually give big points for the value of effort and story content that is important and well told, it must be a disappointing inability to connect with it. Shirin, who read this in English, probably couldn't help missing some things that people normally admire about this book. I think you are right and that it was both.

I hated the animal death references in "Cousins", dreary ending for one of them, and terrible life for the other. That she met that Cousin just before she died and luckily ended up returning to their family all of a sudden, was contrived and too little too late. The minute she was no longer in the clutches of her boarding house, she could have phoned or visited family, no matter how nervous or curious about why she thought they hadn't kept in touch with her. She was desperate enough to leave her house and walk the streets for Pete's sakes. But still, I had to give this novel at least 3 stars because everything else was beautifully told, original, and I sensed all through me that this was important New Zealand culture for me to know. I am glad I know it.

You have helped me understand that if Shirin connected with no one and missed why this novel was special, no matter how glorious Andrew's numerous cultural and historical contents were, I guess two stars are possible. There were times when I couldn't connect with anyone either, or accept the plot most of all. I know "Cousins" would have received 4 stars if it hadn't been for the almost unrewarded ending to extreme but ridiculously needless hardship. Her abandoning husband got no flack. Are we supposed to love him because he helped her plan a Maori funeral? And yet, even though "Chappy" had an identical character who did nothing to help himself and willingly wandered around without making an effort to survive, the rest was so positive and triumphantly unique, it had to have 5 stars from me. I excused the mention of the nephew telling his Uncle he refused to help him kill a sheep. Well, this turned into my chance to converse about Patricia Grace too!

Given the nosiness of the public internet, we won't give details. I am merely curious for future e-mail, if you fell off horses or bicycles, or had operations. Yes, this novel gives us perspective. Are you able to say why you disliked Ulrich and Marianne? I haven't reread my review from 2019, which an error with the group book resulted in having to repost and lose the comments I had. There will be new ones! I think they were not my kind of people and except the burn injury, I did not sympathize with them greatly.

That is right, Marianne could live with Ulrich for at least a decade or longer and yes, he needed her beyond a home. She would not be growing thin and unnourished if not hurriedly finishing grotesque sculptures and as you reminded me of the legend, if she was not giving away hearts. Did Andrew give the provenance of this?

I think you hit upon a mistake that I am confirming both ways! It is more than information not worked out and provided. If Marianne is the same person living 600 years, Jack could not have known her as an identifyable teenager. She started out young in the monastary but grew in that crutial first lifetime. If she were physically reborn to new Mothers & Fathers, each childhood would need no secrecy.

Okay, we raise a timeline doubt that baffles and angers me, not towards you but the popularity of fake 'historical fiction' for causing it. THE PUBLISHING YEAR OF BOOKS IS ALWAYS THE SAME FOR THEIR STORIES. It is only a different year if Andrew stated that. Until made-up 'historical fiction' became popular recently, no one doubted that the book's release year is the present day.

I looked up the 14th century, not remembering how they worked. It went from 1301 to the end of 1400, thus Marianne can be a maximum of 608 years-old. Always trust that a book's publishing year is the present day, as the author wrote it. If it were 'historical', readers would be told. I think 2006 is when I finally got high speed internet, to leave the city and lose it in 2010! I still use videotapes occasionally and always make sure Ron & I have a way to play our nice collection. They would certainly have been around with early DVDs in 2008.

I guess I would not stop her from running into the ocean because her destiny and decision must have been discussed at length with Ulrich. Where I disagree is with him not convincing her to stop building those grotesques and to live with him for his lifetime or a lot of it. I gather Andrew did not explain how statues use a life force, or why she got numerous hearts, did he? I guess that was overriden by your enjoyment and admiration of everything else, to earn five stars, Kerri?

Were any of the cultural stories happy? Did they all end in the appearance of a death because they were presumably former lifetimes, or were some of them peaceful or content; not just funny to ease something gruelling? Here is a good question: did Marianne change genders in any of them? If so, she had to have been reborn along the ages. I don't recall Japan. I loved Iceland, along with Germany!

Thank you for reminding me what the scholar wanted. Each time you answer, the context floods back to me. You brought up good stuff again! I am thoroughly enjoying this! By tomorrow, I hope to glance along my paragraphs written when you were away, to ensure I didn't miss anything we would enjoy chatting about. Besides those, I think this is all I have to propose. I am open to any new observations you raise, which are always so much fun to think about.

I have to laugh that, far from reading the next funny little jaunt by Charlotte MacLeod, your "current" queue has returned to 7 and all heavy subjects. You might have finished the 4 you had gotten down to, haha. I am reading hefty matieral but positive: spiritual healing (Jack Angelo), how to breathe properly (Dr. Berisa Vranich), and "The Wisdom Of Menopause" (Dr. Christiane Northrup). Good health for all of us at home is important and dear to our hearts, as you know. It is the same for your family. Hugs, Carolyn.

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I backtracked the posts, when you only updated us on dear Izzy. She came out all right! You ended up being away from the conversation for two months, even though your Aunt's road trip and setting up house were a few days. Naturally, you did not expect Shirin to bow out at the same time

You didn't expect the need to battle a creep. I stayed calm but might have allowed myself, or someone along with me, to tell "Paul" to fuck off! He accused me of wanting "validation"! I spoke my mind for my conversation being ignored, because no one wants to waste their time or to be treated as if our ideas aren't worth raising. His suggestion pissed me off and I could have kicked the fuck for thinking that, about strong women like any of us.

I dearly support family health and visits. I hope we are in harmony about avoiding delays if we can, for other reasons, like focusing on other books. Duration is supposed be short, so I commit as an almost live way to spend time with *you*: long-distance friends. Please build me back up to trusting a skipped day doesn't mean a week or month! ;> Now that we are writing daily, our conversation is amost finish in a week. I look forward to the same smooth regularity for future buddy reading.

I have a lot of other things to do but checking e-mail and Goodreads is a morning habit I would probably keep, if someone stayed over. Because my present tome is a medical & spiritual textbook, I am happy to start "The Dream Thieves" any time you want, after the last words on "The Gargoyle". Message #58 has my last contributions: yay!

Short commitments clear the path for catching-up e-mail too, which I look forward to very much. :) I can't believe our babies, including our wonderful Conan wherever he is, are having another birthday in a week. Hugs, Carolyn.

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My posts for this day start at message #56! Next, I suggest visiting my favourite input from Shirin in message #35. I asked her to share something positive and it was a great memory refresher for me. You two would love our home library as well, although most of it is in English! Not all of it, being who I am but most of it.

You agree about self-worth and recognition. I made distinctions about other injuries and am checking that it was not missed. People who feel sorrow about the inability to play an instrument or other passions, are spared a facial recognition challenge. They are sad about missing breasts, hands, or feet. I think some people confuse manual careers and struggles, with the impact of looking like yourself in the face. I can't look at a face injury because it looks alien, a telling impact even to a stranger but I can handle seeing other injuries. Ron won't wear shorts because of varicose veins. That is far better than what we read about fictionally.

Ulrich's Aunt & Uncle were irresponsible but I do not remember them selling him in the sex trade. Did they? Anyone would want to escape as soon as they could something that must have frightened kids, unless they could not think of anything else to do.

Are you like Mom and my friend, Lorraine, who avoid photos, videos, places for awhile of ascended loved-ones? Or does it nourish you like it does for me? I have to see my babys' faces every day, even of the childhood cat with me longest.

I think you said Ulrich said good-bye to a shady career because he improved as a person. Did Marianne watch his film? I can't help but laugh at the thought of him saying: "Look at how nice my crotch used to look"!

Did you watch the show "Mom"? Bonnie Plunkett's husband was in a wheelchair. On a videotape of him walking, he didn't mind seeing himself mobile. He hated the womanizer he was in those days. Even dearer to our hearts: "Lucky Man". Mike's closeness with his family reached the level it did with Parkinsons Disease slowing him down. May we all achieve balance without a nudge.

You understand Andrew Davidson taking a long time to write! The scope of his cultural and historical content is unbelievable for one country and astonishing for many. The only other person who does the same is "The Magic Circle" by Katherine Neville. Read it if you can. An ancient slow burn, mixed with frenzy in present day 1989, is something I am glad you & I appreciate in common.

Yes, Kerri, we both love magical / paranormal / fantasy elements and humour! That earned a star from me as well. I thank modern literature for fun, relatable dialogue and humour. Wry observations, funny quotes to go along with the list of Christmas food that was made ("Slime, snails, puppy dog tails")! I recall this by memory from 2019 because it made me laugh most, local familiarity.

Book titles I pass by on Goodreads often remind me of song titles and lyrics, which I launch into singing! Music is a big part of my life, even though I seldom play it. I don't read or watch TV along with it, nor when I seek nature outside. It is something Ron & I set aside as a feature instead of a background. Just something to share with a fellow music fan.

I finished checking all the way up to your conversation return in message #45. It is up to you, sharing new material and how you felt in your earlier reading, before coming back to post. This is all from me. :) Love, Carolyn.

[Kerri]

You mentioned under your review of "Cousins" wondering if the abrupt death was something that happened in real, something I am wondering too!
In terms of reading, I too can often let certain dislikes go in favour of originality or creativity. Often I appreciate a book for trying, even if it doesn't always achieve all it set out to do. Same with movies.

My scars are just from surgeries. I used to have a burn on my hand from stupidly not paying attention when I was taking a tray out of the oven, but after about four or five years it disappeared.

I think the reason I disliked both him and Marianne was their selfishness. He improved over the course of the book, she less so. They both almost always prioritised themselves, especially her. I sympathise with her mania, but she was willing to ignore that her dog was dying because she was too busy carving. He needed up taking the dog to the vet himself, so it lived, but she didn't care either way. Around this time, he ended up in hospital for a routine burns surgery that went septic. Again, she was so focused on the carving and her mission that she didn't even notice. Now, I don't hold someone in a manic state responsible in the same way as if she weren't, but still, her needs were always first. He needed consistent care for his burns, which he couldn't do alone, but she would drop off from doing this if she was carving.
Of course he became a bit less selfish, but his life before the accident and quite a while after, all he cared about was himself. Not the vanity aspect, just that everything revolved around him. Perhaps this was why they were well suited! Marianne didn't evolve much during the present time in the book, but I suspect most of her growth took places in the centuries prior, so we were seeing the finished project so to speak. Also, in the flashback when she was escaping from the deranged army people, she insisted the horse go along a ridge it couldn't fit on, causing it to fall and break its leg (meaning it will die) but again, as long as she survives! I have sympathy for her here because she has just lost her husband and is about to lose her baby, but why not leave the horse behind and go on foot, rather than make it do something that will clearly kill it? Past Marianne seemed much more stupid than the present one, I'm assuming because living in a monastery gave her few practical life skills.

I do wish we'd gotten more about those intervening years. For example, is she present in those separate stories? Is she one of the characters? How did she come to know them? Is she the woman in all of them, or just an observer?

The hearts thing confused me slightly. I sort of get the carving thing, but then why not keep the final heart for a bit longer? I didn't fully understand the message from God, or even whether her interpretation of it made sense. I respect that she believed it, but I don't recall a deadline being mentioned. Now that you've found someone you've waited centuries for, why not take more than two or three years with him? The other thing is, she didn't simply die, she killed herself. Why? Why not live out remaining years, since she seemed to be physically healthy? Was the mental toll too great after all that time? But would a few more happy decades be such an ordeal?

I have to admit that despite these questions, and a few things that didn't quite come together, by overall enjoyment and the eagerness of reading on made me opt for five stars. Certainly my queries are not complaints! It's a book that think didn't stick the landing, as in the ending is a bit less enjoyable than everything leading up to it, and while I appreciate not answering everything, not wrapping it up perfectly, I don't think I fully understood how he chooses to wrap it all up. It doesn't end as strongly as it began, although I did the insight into the manuscripts.

All of the cultural stories ended in death, usually with fire too, which is why I was wondering if they were literally connected to Marianne, or simply related thematically.

No his aunt and uncle didn't sell him. I think they had fellow addict friends who would sell their daughter in exchange for drugs, so he was observing that his family sucked but it could have been worse. I think though that this was introduction to the idea of prostitution being 'easy' money.
I don't think he did show Marianne the film, and I think it was implied she hadn't seen them. She wasn't bothered by them, but also wasn't interested. Perhaps she knew that the person he was before the accident was in some ways irrelevant to her future with him?

I have only seen a few episodes of "Mom", and not that one, but it's interesting to consider. I know some people struggle with the physical reminders, so it's interesting that he more bothered by who he actually was, his character and actions.

Yes, I can see why the writing process would be long for Andrew! The research must be Immense. Fun I would hope, to learn so much, but it must be very time consuming. Hopefully he releases another novel eventually. I wonder if it also stressful to follow up such a big success? I have followed him here, so hopefully there will be another book to add eventually. I would definitely preorder it!

I think I do tend to avoid photos of lived one for a while, not exactly consciously, but I don't seek them out. And then after a little bit I don't mind seeing them again. Although if there were already photos hanging or something, I would remove them.

The books you are reading sound good, especially the breathing properly one! One of the books I am reading is only about 90 pages, so shouldn't take too long. The war I will dip in and out of for a week or two. It is mainly photos.

It is something Ron & I set aside as a feature instead of a background. this is interesting because I have a similar approach to music! I don't listen to it while reading or talking, I like to actually listen and focus on it. My one exception is I will listen to it while writing. I like what you say about it as a feature.

Yes I was surprised when I saw the direction the conversation with Paul had taken when I got back!
I'm glad you were able to stand up for yourself, but sorry you had to.

I am ready to start "The Dream Thieves" whenever suits you! I have almost finished the novella, and I like having a fiction option when I am reading several nonfiction. I like to alternate between nonfiction so my brain doesn't overload!

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

I am glad you are back today, Kerri! We are gathering threads, with your awesome new remarks and we're done. I suppose a skipped day feels longer besides being engrossed in our conversation, because you are about 16 hours ahead. I'll figure out the hours again. I used to flip "12 AM to PM + 3 hours" easily with a previous Australian friend I occasionally phoned. I hope you are enjoying that it is your birth month now! Welcome, September!

Our kittens have their birthday on the 7th! May Conan be home in time for this. Gosh, to have the 3 of them at home would relieve some of the pain of missing Love (it is also his birthday always), Marigold, Spirit, McCartney and help the energy not feel so quiet and empty. Angel & Petal mean the world but I loved our 7 dear faces all together. Anyway, birthday memories are happy and so September is sacred because of them, Mom on the 23rd, and you. :)

If we have a couple of more rapid goes in our conversation here, I will happy dig into "The Dream Thieves". It sounds like you read mine & Shirin's conversation. She wishes we would wait but understands not wanting to delay another month. We started "The Gargoyle" in June but there is no rush. I guess I am keen to continue one. I would content myself with other books if you prefer waiting but we have plenty to enjoy with Shirin, including the Ian Rankin & Agatha Christie she & I read. I am going to aske Leeanne if she will read "Poor Tom Is Cold" soon so we can indulge in "Let Loose The Dogs" and I'd like to read the next "Anne Of Green Gables" soon. I think Shirin went to the museum with her Cousins yesterday. Can you imagine a museum in an ancient, history packed place like Tehran!? I hope someday women can travel there freely.

Let's start with Shirin's awesome quote in message #35. When you reread it, please let me know what you think. I would not have remembered that description and am glad she brought attention to it - a fine collection brimming with humour in its description! You saw all three of my messages on here, right? I replied to you in one, added a small note, then my last one carried over a few items I found in previous entries.

I thought it would be fun to share that our library has a few language options. Are you interested in learning other languages? You said yo know a little Maori. I think you know I am trilingual, so I have my course material and a little fiction in those languages. I also took German but only was at the baby level in it. Our small nearest city that has the thrift shop is a Germany community, so I can easily find a few toddler books with which to practice. Then I send them to my nephew. Our whole family loves languages. My Brothers & I all went to immersion schools which is popular in our country, although I'm the only one who went all the way to grade 12 and a bilingual diploma. They preferred technical vocation schools for the last few years, which looked a lot more fun! Sometimes I pick up dictionaries and little introductory course work of languages I would love to learn, so I have a few bits for future interest and Mom's Latin books.

Musically, it is neat that you are a feature person like we are. It sounded like you had music going all the time, so I didn't know that. Ron's farming parents are not keen on playing anything. Ron coming out to be the huge fan he is, is wonderful; not to mention becoming animal rights conscious and somewhat vegetarian! Then again, my Mom always complained about any volume but is passionate about her favourites. It is a cool Mom & Dad who accompanied me to Corey Hart & Chris DeBurgh concerts! They also treated Timmy & I to a symphony with Andre Rieu.

Were the previous deaths Marianne's? I think she discussed two of Ulrich's but that was clear. Were these remembered lifetimes of different genders? They are of different races. My feeling is that Marianne has to have been reincarnated but remembers all of them and somehow kept going back to build that library, or stored her books somewhere before buying her house in this lifetime or a couple of others. If she said her stories were of her lifetimes, whether or not they included Ulrich; various genders and countries confirm that she is not in the same body all along 600 years.

Do you agree she must have married and had other children? Andrew can't get into everything without making his story a series but a sentence here and there to convey that there were other children and marriages would do. Would you say so? Maybe it wasn't only cultural details the poor writer was working out all that time. He might have decided his plot was as detailed at all ends as he could make it. I felt that way in my baby step drafts of a few chapters and stopped!

Now that I know it was Ulrich who encountered people in hell, were those Marianne's past incarnations he met? There was also a hell resident he conversed with too. Did he have to do or answer something to be released from there?

It seems I have the fortunate ability to block out things I dislike. I remember what you explained about their pregnancy but forgot Marianne had cut herself while sculpting. I gave myself the relief of not remembering a dog needing medical help or risking a horse's life and would be just as outraged. I would call it not being sensitive about animals instead of selfishness. On one hand as you wrote, Marianne was sickly focused on sculping at the one time. Nonetheless, I am certain in my dying days, I would naturally care about the animals and people around me. When escaping, especially when running and climbing made more sense: I would not risk the wellbeing of a horse, bird, amphibian, or insect. I take worms to the soil if I see them out after a rain.

About photographs helping me through loss but being avoided by you a short while, I think this was a typo. I believe you mean you would not remove displayed photos. "Although if there were already photos hanging or something, I would remove them." I have to see them and enjoyed viewing all of yours again, in a folder on our PC. It is a wonderful selection. I don't know why there appeared to be only a few the first time I looked.

I love what you wrote about supporting a story for trying to be original and creative, even if it does achieve it entirely or stick its landing. In my reflections of how I felt after reading books and upon choosing opinions and star grades, I regularly assess if what I appreciated dominates what I disliked. Sometimes I loved a story but too many detractors piled up, or some awful ones.

With you being away, Shirin disliking the novel, and having international company over afterwards; you two did not buddy read as planned with me peeking in. I hope I kept up well enough with my memory, to give you a nice discussion. I was sure you two would come up with the themes and it would be fun for me to just answer them. So if you can think of anything fresh that occurred to you along the way, I am game.

You raised something interesting today. I am pondering how to bring it out. If I asked "Was Marianne negligent and oblivious in 2008 because she was sick, too desperate about a task to focus on anything including food", we would cite her lack of consideration for a horse decades ago. Just by the way, I hope nowadays in medicine and with animal rights mindsets, broken legs are fixed. I know that horse couldn't get down a mountain in that century but nowadays, I hope horses are helped to mend and at least retire if they need to.

You said there was no deadline on using hearts. How many were there? Did she receive them in her first life in Germany? Engel sounds German but we have covered switching genders and her build in different climates. So did Marianne rush their reunion together because she was sick and was going to die anyway? Did finding him trigger her exit? You made a good point that she walked into an ocean (I recall that California came to my mind) instead of trusting a natural death cycle. I think my question is, was she lucky to have found him just before the end of her life, or was she ready to go because she saved him this time, at last? She spared him torture in the past but this time, he came through alive: with prayers, modern medicine, and the hope she gave him.

He does need some caring for even though his independence is improving and certainly the dog does. Did Marianne already have him or did Ulrich adopt the dog? Perhaps this much can be implied, that Ulrich has enough money to hire nurses, or a health plan covers it. You made me smile and remember that his physiotherapist married another caregiver. I remembered the physiotherapist and doctor were women and am unsure who married whom.

I guess that is my conclusion, by memory and with your help boosting me on details. Marianne saved Ulrich this time and can stop coming back to lifetimes on Earth, to find him and try again. For some reason that is different from every other person in life and in fiction, she remembered each return.

I saw a film about this but don't recall the title. It was something I downloaded that looked interesting. Either I gathered a few films when I was in the city or put in the work on slow speed here but I tried a few films I had never heard of. A woman dropped her toothbrush in a puddle when moving into an apartment building and the manager had a whole pile of new one for her, each time this sequence restarted. It ended in a fire too that she finally knew she needed to escape differently by daring to jump, I think. Along the way, she noticed that people in the building kept knowing or having things that were strangely convenient. They counted on her to make the difference for them all and stop the disaster from occurring or repeating. It wasn't great but was interesting to see once. I gave the DVD I made to my pal, Marc.

It is hard for me to choose between telling erratic people off like they deserve, or staying professionally peaceful. Without back-up for me, some people disbelieve they are rude. Since I was alone and did not want to resort to deleting without knowing what you thought, I chose the polite path that would shut the fuckhead up soonest. Anyway, maybe you are more confortable stepping in knowing that people accept the position of a moderator. A friend's back-up is enough and as powerful. :)

"Breathe" is a book you should read, if you were not taught about diaphragm breathing and exhaling forcefully, to get all the carbon dioxide out. It creates room for a full, clean inhale of oxygen. Along with not knowing if you know this from a hospital or elsewhere, I wondered if you deemed it important enough to buy. I will give it to one of my Sisters-in-laws, unless you aren't getting a copy similar to it. My review explains that I sense other teachers might simplify and write it better but it is important for all of us to read. We need to clear and nourish ourselves with our breaths for our food, blood, organs, and exercise to do their best as well.

Lung capacity is far less important than breathing right, which we all are capable of doing starting today, based on what I explained. It is like that book quote: "The man / woman who doesn't read, is no better off than the man / woman who can't read". It is said that most of us do short chest breaths, using only the top 20% of our lungs. The richer, denser parts are apparently lower and there are exercises for training us to do that. I don't think Barisa needed to elaborate and repeat as much as she did and I'm uninterested in calculating and monitoring my "vital lung capacity". Improving the basics is clear enough for me. It is a book from which you draw what you value.

[Kerri]

It's amazing to be in September already! That you have the kittens birthday in just under a week must feel special. I do hope you Conan back soon! It must have been wonderful when you had all Seven cats together. Hopefully it won't be long until you have three. 💖😺😺😺

A museum visit in Tehran would certainly be interesting - I'd love to visit a big variety of countries and go through lots of museums. I hope she enjoyed her day with her cousins.

"Let Loose the Dogs" and the next "Anne of Green Gables" book sound good too. So many interesting books to look forward too!

Yes, I loved the quote Shirin shared in message 35 excellent - it was actually one of my favourite parts of the novel, and although it was brief, I think that library was a amazing. I sometimes wish they spent a bit more time in there, but of course Marianne's focus was telling the stories. But to have a library like that would be incredible wouldn't it, especially once you realise the scope of Marianne's life/lives.

You know it funny, I would like to speak another language fluently. I wonder what is the best way to go about it - learning through a course or class, or even better, living somewhere for a year or two and immersing yourself in the language around you? Did you find that the immersion school meant you found it easier to learn additional languages beyond the two? I've heard some people say that the more learn additional languages, the easier it gets, although I doubt this means it is simple!

I'm not sure if the previous deaths were Marianne's or not. At one she talked as if she had died before, but I'm not sure if she meant repeatedly, or that the episode in the ice was a death, which didn't result in her dying! I appreciate keeping Marianne mysterious, but a few things feel confusing in a slightly unsatisfactory way.

I feel like she must have filled her time with something, presumably relationships, perhaps marriage, children unless the loss of the baby removed her physical ability to have children. But she must have used the time somehow, presumably building families, learning more about the world. Was she searching for him the whole time, or was it matter of waiting for him to reenter her life somehow, the same way he did the first time?

I sympathise with Andrew for what must been the immensely difficult process of fitting everything in without writing 10,000 pages! I read somewhere he cut out a certain percentage during the editing process - I wonder if there were more answers there, or if he was cutting out extra detail preventing him from getting to the answers?

I was unsure if in Hell if he met past Marianne's or not. They all spoke about Marianne as if they knew her, though they could have been being ironic. If they were known to her, are they perhaps a version of him? Or are they significant friends she accumulated along the way?

I know when people are manic they can lose all sense of reason. They could forget about a baby, or in extreme cases, say think they can fly and jump off a building. So I can chalk the dog up to her being unwell, and maybe that she had Ulrich around to safeguard aspects like that since she knew she would be carving more. But the horse, I think she prioritised herself over having any sense. She could have just let it go and carried on on foot. I do sympathise that she was pregnant, and that a woman, especially a pregnant one, would not want to be captured by violent soldiers, but even aside from the horse, during this period she seemed very dumb, continually making silly decisions. For example, she kills Ulrich, which I understood in the scenario of him being slowly tortured to death. Then she just stays in plain view, so they spot her. Then assumes, because she 'knows the area' she can outrun them. Why would she not consider that soldiers trained in tracking would be more efficient than a former nun?

These days a Horse breaking it's leg can sometimes be saved. It depends on the kind of break, and what you can afford. It was cost tens of thousands of dollars even if everything goes right. Horses aren't designed to stand still, so if they go in a body sling to lift their weight off the ground, they will often founder or colic. It can be successful, but luck and money are needed! If the break was in a place where they could still walk, it might be easier. But it is difficult. It does help that these days there are painkillers, and horse hospitals, and even swimming pools for horses so they can exercise without bearing weight, but also lots of people would have access to that.

She revived the hearts after being under the ice. I can't remember if it happened while she was unconscious, or just after she woke up. I don't recall a number being given. She seemed certain do the number once they dwindled down to double digits. I would like to know if sculpture was the only way to give them away. Perhaps the people he met in hell had received a heart from her in some way? Perhaps she put them into her translations? How did she figure out what "give them away" meant? How long has she been doing it?

It's funny, I don't exactly want a sequel, since I think this is a brilliantly done standalone novel, but if he released "Marianne's Story: The Lost Centuries" or something I would read it in a heartbeat!

That's a good point that she saved him at last. Perhaps that was her unfinished business in way, to make sure she kept him alive this time. And once shed done that she was ready to relinquish that wearingly long life. Marianne already had the dog, and I have wondered if she got him for Ulrich in a way. So he he would have company once she left him.

Yes, his physiotherapist married the psychologist I think. I liked their relationship, and Ulrich sublty and then not so subtly pushing them together!

That film you mentioned sounds interesting. I often like a movie when even if it's not the best movie, the idea of it sticks with you.

The "Breathe" book sounds interesting. I have a book I want to order in the next few weeks called
"Breath" by James Nestor, I wonder if it covers similar things. That is one I can get locally easily. I will read it, and then see if it covers what you mentioned here. Hopefully!

Oh I almost forgot to mention! I was at the doctors last week, and both nurses asked me about "The Gargoyle". When I went back a few days later, one of them had ordered their own copy of the book. So we have at least one more NZ reader for the book! Hopefully she likes it!😀

Oh yes, I did mean I WOULDN'T remove the photos! I not sure if that was an autocorrect slip, or I mistyped! But if they are already on display I am fine to leave them, but would avoid photo albums for a time. But then I reach a point where it is nice to go through them all again.

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

Hello, my dear! I hope I am giving you a good conversation, despite planning to be a background contributor. It is wonderful that you are sending Andrew around New Zealand and any other Canadian books or CDs you don't need to keep. I replied about "Breathe" at your update of the other book.

You don't mind continuing "The Dream Thieves", even though Shirin concurs wistfully? I won't start it as immediately as we considered it and need a few more days.

I feel the need to turn to my next Anne Perry novel. I just found out she has ascended to Heaven and she is one of my dearest, favourite authors since 2014, when Lovey ascended shockingly, so young. Anne's first mystery cheered me up with real sympathy for loss in the characters and I am forever grateful for it.

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

You looked up Andrew Davidson. I would love to see what he ommitted. It couldn't be more burn healing descriptions. If it was an additional country or story from the past, or better elaborations of explanations we need in several places, I am right there with you, Kerri.

Yes, was a psychologist with the physiotherapist. We realized an appearance is connected with one's self, so it is good he had one. It also helps me figure out who the male was.

Museums are fun if they have artifacts, even though I prefer standing on the land and buildings of history. I have visited them in a few Canadian towns and Inverness, Scotland; London, England; South Dakota, USA; and California, USA. Castles are very much museums as well as monuments. Our parents took us to the Manitoba Museum Of Man & Nature numerous times but the more I learn, the more it is worth going back. You know art galleries are my goal too.

Home records and keepsakes are personal museums. Our library is in the ways outside of age or monetary value. If you remind me how big Marianne's library was, we likely match her in number. I need to clean up our library building and start selling our discards to locals soon. The gift pile for you and family is in the hallway behind me.

Isn't it cool, my parents joined me to see Corey Hart & Chris DeBurgh and treated Timmy & I to seeing Andre Rieu? I have Mom's DVDs of his now, my exception of liking some classical music. He is fun to watch as a conductor and player. Corey & Chris are obviousy unforgettable and personal to me to the core.

Languages are an expertise of mine, with a proven way to approach them. I am a great teacher. Are you more interested in French or Spanish? I let a person learn on paper first and set their pace through some basic vocabulary and sentence building, with a little feedback from me. Then, when you approach how words are pronounced, you are not meaninglessly imitated what you hear. You will know these words and probably remember how to say them better. Where did you learn Maori words?

Additional languages is easier for a few reasons. One one hand, if you have a natural talent or passion to learn languages, it always serves you well. You will find working your way to comprehension a delight, not a chore. No one grades you by a certain date, so you are free to persist until you get it! I would have loved home or remote schooling. Not being a morning person and not being interested enough in some subjects was my performance problem.

The romance languages and some German look alike in their roots. It becomes easy to recognize the words of neighbouring languages. It also hones your skill to learn the concept of article genders so that they are old hat in other languages. English is so undisciplined, contradictory, and recycles so many sounds and words; I don't know how foreigners learn it.

Maybe a brain muscle is turned on that gets you good at this thinking, which might be true of playing musical instruments too. Do you sing, dance, or play any? These are yeses for me.

Yes, immersion helps. Are you familiar with the program? Instead of taking one French, Spanish, or German class no matter how advanced the level; students have their whole day in the language. It was considered rude to speak to teachers in English, even passing staff or other teachers in the hall. We also got in trouble if we did not speak in French to each other, except outside at recess. So you get a ton of practice from the first day, when you know no words. We must have absorbed what we needed fast because I don't remember resorting to English for long in grade 4, when many Anglophones started the program. Gym, science, music, math, sewing, wood shop, typing were all in French too. Marianne obviously had time and immersion in each country.

Do you concur with my clues, that Marianne had to have reincarnated and not lived 600 years? You are unsure she was among the hell visitors. Are you also unsure she was the person we visited in other countries? Why else would Marianne tell the story? If they were friends she made, wouldn't that have been clear in the narrating and her placement in the story? If you don't think she was a companion to those people, she must have been the protagonist, musn't she? Thus, different genders, races, and ages means she was born in different epochs.

If Andrew studied how reincarnation seems to work, he would know some traits or situations go from one life to another. But we are new, different people housing our common soul. I am Carolyn but must have been called other names previously. When you consider this, is it likely Marianne was referring to her previous names? Sylvia Browne studied birthmarks as sometimes being the places where individuals were impacted by death in the past. However, because these are fresh new lives and personages; unless Motherhood was a quest that needed resolving, Marianne was likely fertile in every other lifetime.

I don't remember the 2000s film title or know the actors. I searched a broad synopsis. A dropped toothbrush was not mentioned, which I remember instead bodies but it sounds like "Circle Of Eight", 2009. Perhaps I can block out things I disliked.

Rechecking might be handy but I trust you have a detailed, intelligent eye for gaining information from even a small cue. If you aren't seeing an answer, it isn't there. Do you think Andrew surmised too much that readers would fill in blanks he implied? Do you think he explained too little to keep size down, pace up, or from thinking he would never release the book if he persisted in tuning details? What is your impression of what the novel tried to do or lacked? Is it likely he did not research the angles enough and got sloppy enough to let in some plots that don't fit?

It sounds like you don't see enough information to decide if Marianne was lucky to find Ulrich without trying, or was hoping to find him. If there was Germany, Italy, England, Japan, Iceland, and presumably California in 2008; were they all her lifetimes? Were there others and did she only recount those in which she shared with Ulrich? I think this cycle could stop when she saved him, or did something better than she did before; maybe less dumb or selfish like you put it.

In our "life blueprints" or as some call it "life contract" that we design before coming to Earth, most of our living and life improvement themes are for ourselves. Maybe getting something right with Ulrich was a bonus if they met and she recognized him. Maybe God made sure she did.

Most of us don't remember our goals because that the lesson is developing and growing without our universal knowledge and full senses. When we sense déjà-vu and something clicks; proof of a past life seeps in for us. I have only experienced that a little here & there over years, in short feelings or images that only build a little picture. I have read that it is odd for children to keep the ideas they had. For me, the morals and sense of what is right about animals and stuff has stayed with me all the way through life. Have I developed over time? Am I remembering lessons as I am going along and learinng?

Please remind me when Ulrich started remembering what Marianne told him: which country or story, for example? I think I have added the tidbits that weren't picked up today. Please let me know if there is anything I missed of yours.

An ice scene is familiar. Is it when Marianne stopped being pregnant? Did God say she was given more hearts to blanket that loss? You wrote "She revived the hearts under ice". I need a reminder of that reference please. It sounds like you know where the hearts were from. Did they appear in the ice or in her arms?

I have needed a few refreshers but am glad I remember enough to have kept up with you. If we weren't blessed with thousands of books, I would reread this to glean meaning after conversing with you, at least the parts that interest me.

A book I want to discuss with you, in e-mail or anywhere, is "The Haunting Of Maddie Prue". There are no other peers. Please let me know when there is a review because I am eager to read it. Don't worry about the time past. I hope you left notes at Goodreads or elsewhere but when you begin writing, your opinions and impressions will likely return to you. They do for me, sometimes after six months.

[Kerri]

Hi Carolyn,

I have a shorter reply today and I spent some time working on my review for the book. I have also gone back through my copy to check some of the information about Marianne and the hearts,which I will include in this message:

While under the ice, while perhaps dead or very close to, Marianne became aware of "presences". They were inside her and always had been, but she had been ignoring them. Three presences separated themselves and came forward. Father Sunder, Meister Eckhart and Mechthild von Magdeburg. They have a "conversation". The hearts are a penance, seemingly both for killing him, and for loving him in the first place which meant breaking her vow to God. She has learned to give her heart completely to one, but not to share beyond the self and the other.

She will be returned to the world with thousands of hearts. She must give away each until all are gone but one. These hearts must be given out of her chest and die for her, while finding life in others. This is so she can overcome her earthly nature and be made ready for Christ.

Her last heart must be passed over to her lover. He must accept it, but he cannot hold it. He must release it to you.

And the she woke up.

I sort of get this, but I feel like even by the end, it was still only about her and her lover! She seemed the same person!

Also, about the baby:When she woke up the child was gone. "As if I had never been pregnant, as if God's hand had reached into my womb and pulled out my child as punishment."

So maybe punishment or maybe mercy: "I want to believe that it was a mercy... That the baby died because of the freezing water, and God removed the child from me so I wouldn't have to confront the truth in the living world."

Also, I don't think he does get his memories of their past back. But by the end he seems to mostly believe what she told him. He intends to have someone shoot him with the arrow when is ready to die, and he says this will be the third time that an arrow has entered his chest, so I think he believes it. It's just slightly confusing because a few pages earlier he seems clear that he doesn't! But surely the final paragraphs hold more weight, as he has had more time to process his grief and blaming himself for not stopping Marianne.

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

Hi Kerri,

I will write only a short bit to allow you to follow-up the rest of what I offered. I scooped it up and summarized it in the last couple of posts and leave it to you. I see that you graced many of my reviews with your eyes and your words and after breakfast, I will treat myself to reading all of them! Thank you for this, my friend.

I remembered the pregnancy part as soon as you wrote of it the other day. Things come back to me, except for negative things I am interested to see I successfully blocked. Parting from a baby is poignant to me, even if it is sad.

I appreciate the summary (or did you quote?) of the hearts from the ice. It clarifies that there were thousands but I have no memory of this at all. Maybe because there was no character growth in Marianne that we could sense, owing to the author not achieving it I guess, therefore the mission with the hearts did not gel in my mind. I am glad for your explanation and will think about it, until you have written about the rest.

My knowledge of God, different perhaps from how nuns and othe christians were taught to think of Him / Her, is that they do not punish. It is part of our life plan, "blueprint" on Earth to overcome some things. We can credit Marianne for getting through the loss of her pregnancy and for this love in many lifetimes.

[Kerri]

It was half quote, half summary, because Marianne went on for a while, which was nice to read but less fun to type! I find the heart aspect interesting, but perhaps a little unexplored.

Back to the previous messages:
Yes I am happy to start "The Dream Thieves" soon, but take your time with the Anne Perry book, as I'm sure that will be a meaningful read.

Home records and keepsakes are personal museums. Our library is in the ways outside of age or monetary value - - I love this! What a great way to word it!

The exact size of the room Marianne's library isn't stated, although given the house is large, I expect the room is too. It has three bookshelves lining the walls - massive ones I hope. But I would not be surprised if your library was equal to it!

I'm happy you got to attend those concerts with your parents, those must be wonderful memories to share! Andre Rieu is one of the few modern day classic performers I have heard of!

I'm not sure if I would prefer French or Spanish. Both would be useful! I also find Japanese interesting, though I wonder how much learning a different style of writing and reading complicates things? Or Dutch, since my Poppa was from the Netherlands.
I learned some basic Maori in primary school, but unfortunately I don't remember all of it.
I have heard that English can be one of the most frustrating languages to learn. Especially the rules that then don't even apply to half of the words!

I used to play a bit of basic piano, but never learned properly, and can now only remember "Three Blind Mice". I don't dance or sing, I've never really enjoyed either! I like listening to other people sing, but don't like doing it myself. And I find myself impressed by dancers, but I'm not that drawn to it. Of the three, I think playing an instrument appeals the most.

I think I have read about immersion schools, but never spoke to anyone else who has attended one. It must have been a bit daunting at the beginning, but it sounds like a great way to truly learn a language.

Yes, I think the reincarnation right. And she's either planned ahead with her belongings, or just gathered them back to herself instinctively. With the additional stories, although I presume she was the protagonist, hence her insight. I briefly wondered if she might be the partner of each who was left behind, so she watched her love/loves die again and again, but her depth of knowledge for thoughts right up to death makes protagonist seem correct.
What you wrote about reincarnation is interesting, and feels like it would fit quite well with the novel.

I think Andrew did a good job overall, because I understand in many ways the focus wasn't on Marianne, at least the viewpoint. For the most part I didn't mind that some things were not perfectly answered, because it fitted well. But how Marianne found him at the hospital will bug me slightly! The hearts thing sort of makes sense, even though I also thought it seemed cruel to put a person through that. Surely just allowing her to reunite with her husband the first time would have been kinder?!

I did wonder if Marianne reincarnated immediately, or if there was time in between? Because if there was time, the stories told may have been all her lives. Otherwise, perhaps they were the most important ones.

I must get to the "Maddie Prue" review soon so we can discuss it. It was such an interesting book and I was sorry to see it hasn't had much attention here in Goodreads.

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

I wonder why you didn't remember Anne Perry is one of my favourites but guess I don't mind not knowing of her ascension any sooner. I wonder how you came across it, since for me it was seeing the past-tense as I checked her series. I looked at my review of "The Cater Street Hangman" and you are not among the commenters. You probably visited me on succeeding volumes.

It seemed like subjects were missing but I did a lot of conversing in our book reviews yesterday. I'll gather relevant things here. You will be surprised to find when you revisit comments of "The Changeover" that there is something creepy going on with Melanie Lynskey! I even saw her AGAIN last night, more randomly than any other of the five times this week! I discovered the was the crazy neighbour in "Two And A Half Men", then saw her on "The Drew Barrymore Show". It was a cast reunion of "Ever After", which I hated because I am against disrespecting anyone's sacred keepsakes and couldn't focus on the movie after that awful scene with the blond stepsister.

Already surprised that an American sounding actress I do not know is Kiwi in reality and showing up so much; it creeped me out to discover she was in the disturbing movie about Juliet Hulme, in which Peter Jackson disturbed Anne Perry's privacy! The next morning, I found your comment on "The Changeover" with pleasure, already suspecting you would say there was a movie about it. But I could not believe that you mentioned Melanie Lynskey!!!! That is crazy enough as it is.

Unbelievably, last night, Ron needed me out of the bedroom while he changed linens. I put down my book and browsed TV for a few minutes, where nothing interesting was on but "Celebrity Family Feud". As it ended, someone in the background looked like Melanie Lynskey but they didn't focus on her. Oh, you can't be serious! I finally saw her name tag and yes, it said "Melanie". I don't want to search the show "Yellowjackets" and see if she was indeed a cast member of it. It is bizarre to see someone who creeps me out. It was fun to often run into Rob Lowe!

I am glad to remind you to review "The Haunting Of Maddie Prue". It is partly for this pleasureable chance to understand it with a friend who knows it. The other part is for the reason you recognized too: those who do know this novel need to promote it.

The most important update of our Andrew Davidson discussion was in my reply to your review comment, which is what I sensed was missing so I will paste it here. "The line between interpreting the divine and mental stability is a good discussion". I am glad I am reminded of one more subject I had looked forward to discussing! It is in our conversations but I worded it just right here.

I seemed to confirm Marianne visited hell like I recalled. Could I misread that part of the book, or did you? I thought it must be a mistaken impression across four years but my impression of Marianne seeing her spirit guides in hell is there in my review. There is a reason I understood that this is who they were too. Would you please check whether or not she visited hell, even if Ulrich did too in the part you were thinking of?

I don't think we question that she received messages from God. Someone raised in the spiritual would find that normal. How she did the task and did not care for herself or others, is not what God would want. Her guidance from God and spirit guides or angels and coming back to Earth were real but she was emotionally sick too.

Yes, it is a big question and complaint from all of us, that there is a way God could answer our prayers, instead of offer a degree of comfort. As you suggested: why not save the couple, the pregnancy, and all the horses.

Of all the things I have explored since childhood, seeing something off about what my religious relatives thought, I was slow to believe in reincarnation. My little self matters and so do each of us. I slowly understood that our soul is one unique identity the way I hoped it is. However, our being goes into a few physical lifetimes that most of us don't remember. There is in between time and maybe a few of Marianne's dramatic lives were colourful enough experiences to give her growth.

I am trying to teach my angel-reading friend, who has used the "it is for a reason" stalemate, that we can ask for changes! To grow, we propose challenges before starting a life. We can't fathom their hardship, until we are a part of Earth. Our spirit guides can negotiate with Heavenly elders. Love ascending young and Conan missing were enough. Still; McCartney, Spirit, and Marigold went and Mom! I have asked God to please draw the hardship line there (as well as after the other problem). My friend who is religious also used the "it was God's plan" assumption. I said: there would be no use for prayer if change wasn't possible. Apparently, only souls who have lived as people or animals can be spirit guides. Only they understand what it is like to be here among negative and positive atmospheres. We have that advantage of understanding, ahead of the Heaven elders who have not given Earth a try.

I love the idea of someone planning for returns, who remembers her residency in Heaven and other personages. Storage or knowing how to repurchase or manifest items that please Marianne must have been possible.

I will share how I began to believe in reincarnation, after being reassured there truly is only one Carolyn in my pure soul. It is hard to think that I have been someone else but I can accept it if there is only one me, at the root. I did not need to be taught to care about animals, plants, and emotionally significant belongings and record-keeping.

In the early 2000s, I saw a Canadian show about a young Ontario man stopping in a small town to see a dentist at his house. His wife answered the door and he knew these had been his parents. He was too uncomfortable to stay with them for some reason. As he left, he observed a river in the backyard and knew he had drowned in it. The amazing thing is that this was a short turnover. Those elderly people were that boy's parents, still living! He met his actual parents physically! What a powerful and certain feeling that must be, far more convincing that land, a building, or story feeling familiar.

Since you & I want the same question answered, one of us ought to e-mail Andrew Davidson and ask if finding Ulrich was luck, or if Marianne sought him or sensed his proximity. Was it in a draft that was not printed?

Now you know someone from French immersion. I only spoke Spanish to our teachers and pupils in Spanish classes too. I started in high school and continued in university, which I think you know. It did not feel daunting for long in grade 4 because everyone else was in the same Anglican boat and teachers would say or write English words for us at first. They certainly knew English but the sooner we turned to French as our communicating resource the better.

In Spanish, learning on paper first was the method with which I started in grade 9 and I love it. You don't want to parrot words you don't know. I could teach either one but have more resources ready and honed for Spanish. I gave Ron a primer before going to Mexico and did the same for a former boyfriend.

I hoped you wouldn't say you were someone who didn't sing or dance. I don't mean professionally but if we were at a social or pub and I wanted to hit the floor for a great song; there would be no fuss about joining me, I hope! The same with singing along to a CD or something. I'm not saying anyone should get up for a karaoke solo if they aren't comfortable. Music lovers have to move and sing along, don't you think?

In terms of awkwardness, please know the person who doesn't think they are great dancers but gets up and participates, blends in beautifully. The one staying off the dancefloor is disappointing and they stick out. As long as you sway along without silly self-consciousness, everything is good. :) I love hearing that instruments interest you without hesitation. You'll find on the memory stick (look forward to those e-mail conversations) that I shared Crowded House sheet music with you.

It is cool that you have heard of Andre Rieu! It is through my parents, who were introduced by "mes tantes", that I know him. I can't wait to watch Mom's two DVDs. Dad loves the music but finds it easier to draw from whatever is on his TV programming.

I love that you are taught basic Maori in New Zealand schools! I wondered if you learned from your Dad and how much he knows. It is cool that his or your Mom's Dad is Dutch. Yes, I see how silly English is every time I consider antonyms and homonyms. Isn't that the most telling? Who uses one word to mean tons of things? At least the Chinese give different intonations, which is the reason their tones rise and fall expressively.

I was drawn to read "The Riel Rebellion ~ 1885" from atop my nearest bedroom shelf simultaneously since last night. It is short and fits nicely in pauses from Anne Perry's "The Hyde Park Headsman". Then I will work through "The Wisdom Of Menopause" after we begin "The Dream Thieves". I mix stories with education just like you do. I think we are winding down and I am enjoying our conversation very much all along the way, Kerri. I hope, as I asked, that I kept up well enough to hold up a pleasant conversation for you as well.

[Kerri]

I think I recognised the name Anne Perry, but not why I recognised it. I think the headline I saw read something like, "Anne Perry dies aged 85", so I didn't make the author connection. I was looking up her books earlier and she certainly was prolific! Several of her series's look excellent.

How odd to have Melanie Lynskey pop up so repeatedly! I have never seen "Ever After" or the Peter Jackson film, but have enjoyed her in other things. I'm not sure if you have ever seen "Sweet Home Alabama" with Reese Witherspoon, but if you have she is the lady with a baby in a bar, which I always find funny even though its probably not! I haven't seen that reunion episode with Drew Barrymore, but I saw a different one with Melanie's husband, Jason Ritter I think his name was. They were talking about his sobriety.

Perhaps I did misread whether or not Marianne went to hell. She may have mentioned it somewhere and I've not made the connection or something. I mainly remember his journey, but she may have had a similar one. Or was it the same one? Were the guides he met simply Marianne in various guises?

I did wonder if her spirit guides led her to Ulrich in some way? Maybe even without her being conscious of it until it had happened? Perhaps thst was some reward for having waited so long, that she was allowed to finally find him. So maybe the guides, or God again? I looked through the Wikipedia synopsis, but that was too brief to be helpful, so I will have a look through the book later.

I definitely belive fully in the message from God and the guides/masters. That part fully made sense to me! Especially that they had always been there, she just had blocked them out.
I would imagine that living with grief if a spouse and baby for centuries must take an incredible toll on a person. And surely the waiting, almost endless waiting, would amplify it even more.

What you have written about reincarnation is interesting to me. I find a lot of it makes sense, and I liked the example from the show. It would be eerie, but in a good way, to experience that kind of recognition.

I'm not sure why exactly, but I've just never enjoyed singing that much, even along to the radio. I'm not opposed to dancing at a party or something, although I don't hanker after it either.
I think my Nana and Poppa had an Andre Rieu dvd. I remember a bit of a mix of Andrea Bocelli and Elvis Presley on cassette tape - separately of course! I was happy enough to jump around to Elvis!

Yes, my Mum's dad was Dutch, and came over here to work on the trains (back when people took trains everywhere I think it was a booming job field). I'm not sure if he intended the move to be permanent or not, but he met my Nana at some point, which must have cemented it! I've often wondered what the adjustment period was like. I know he spoke some English from school, but I'm not sure if he was fluent.

I like the wording of mixing stories with education, that's a good way to put it! "The Riel Rebellion ~ 1885" sounds interesting!

Yes I think this conversation has gone well, and you were a great contributer! I don't know that I would have picked up on the length of time since you read it unless I'd already known going in!

"The line between interpreting the divine and mental stability is a good discussion" - - I feel like this line would actually be a decent tagine for the actual book! Something I was thinking the other night was about exhaustion. You know how people can kind of lose it if they are truly exhausted? How extremely exhausted would Marianne be, mentally, after centuries of giving away hearts and mourning and waiting to find him again? She seemed fairly stable in her first lifetime. Also, when you talked about reincarnation, it sounded like some things stick, but not blatant memories. I wonder how trying it would be on someone's mind to have so many lives still at the forefront of their minds? The more I've thought about it, the more sympathy I've had for her. I mean, I cared before, but really she must have had a brutal time of it. Perhaps that helped her help him, because she understood having to start on this gruelling journey and you don't know how long it will take or where exactly you are going.

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Anne Perry was not only original, compassionate, well varied, and prolific. She kept going: similar to David Bowie, who produced his dream play when he knew he had terminal cancer. It feels like a cut-off, harder than the eventual departure of an author or artist whose work we love and remember. Anne released her newest novel the week before she went. Daniel Pitt, a future hero, is still a toddler where I am, in 1994. The novels are exactly 100 years behind. :)

My other heroine, Phyllis A. Whitney, stopped a few years before her death but was the same. We certainly excuse her: she lasted until 104!

Isn't it freaky how much I am running into Melanie, after shuddering about her Juliet Hulme and "Ever After" portrayals? I did not know she was married to Jason Ritter, whom I hardly know. But I had a feeling he was John Ritter's Son and see that it was true. Wow, she married television royalty's Son. I grew-up on "Three's Company", although the humour sources don't hold up and he was unforgettable in the uncharacteristic film "It".

No wonder Melanie is in the US and can imitate them. When I saw her profile with Jason's, it told me she is in another freaky show called "The Yellowjackets". So that was she on "Celebrity Family Feud" - sigh. I don't watch it and only turned on the TV, to get out of the room while Ron put away laundry.

I saw a sweet interview by Drew with Pamela Anderson and want both of their books, especially Pamela's. Pamela is the opposite to Melanie; she is home in British Columbia most of the time, growing and preserving her food, caring for animals. Yes, I saw "Sweet Home Alabama" and enjoyed it. I don't recognize actors in until I know who they are.

"The Riel Rebellion ~ 1885" was good. I knew the tragic end of Louise Riel and that he used to be mistaken for a villain, instead of the hero as whom he is recognized now. Metis history was important to Mom after she clued into our roots, which Timmy has surprised me by taking up seriously. Help maintaining and expanding our history is good; especially someone to appreciate it with me.

I think this outline is enough regarding rebellion and execution. I don't want to read Mom's longer books on the subect, although more about family roots would be different. A few years ago, I reviewed the short story of Louis' Grandmother, "Marie-Anne Lagimodiere" and appreciated learning our history going as far back as Manitoba goes, which Louis made into a province. He was defeated against defending Metis and Aboriginal land though. That rural Dawson Road written about in that history, is a walk from us! https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Having mixed roots is wonderful, so your Dutch Grandpa is a fun surprise. I feel for people who only claim to have one bloodline or language ability. Knowing other languages and owning other cultures is like a wider world to walk through and a more highly tuned awareness and understanding of hints and flavours all over the place. This was one of my favourite things about "The Gargoyle" and I urge you to try "The Magic Circle" by Katherine Neville, Andrew's only other content rival. If you feel like learning a language at a flexible pace, just say which one. :) https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I am glad you are willing to get up and dance if it moves you. If you would do it for Elvis, you would certainly do it for our modern music and the fun stuff of our childhood eras!

I was thinking you should videotape part of your birthday celebration, so I can see it later! My way of attending your 30th extravaganza! I also know about now, you are honouring and missing Stevie very much.

Figuring out this misperception is becoming interesting. I truly remember Marianne was the one in hell having conversations with various people. And was it also the devil or some other manager there? She was not someone I interpreted in the cameos of the past but the actual protagonist at that time. Either I made a mistake at the time of reading, which my review corroborates, or you made a mistake; or they both had scenes in hell. I was surprised when you said Ulrich experienced it.

I also remember him as connecting with Marianne's memories eventually, which is why he believed her. I think he did remember something after she described it. I am glad I have kept up well, despite planning to ride along!

I guess a life mission can exhaust us. We might wonder why a subject feelings trying, including in the present life we are consciously and currently living. However, if Marianne is not extending one life but giving those hearts away over several, she restarts every time. Remembering her mission should not tire her but make her eager to start each time she has a fresh life.

In case you are used to reincarnation stories, I thought it went without saying that the Ontario boy discussed on the television program was afraid of water. I think it stopped after he understood this happened to a past person, not the person as he stood now. These stories are many but it must be rare to meet still living parents and how his heart must have lurched! This is why I still feel moved to think of their story.

I wish he had stayed to talk with his parents. I'll bet their feelings about him woud convince them of who he was. They could have filled in his blanks, answered questions, and healed themselves. Imagine the comfort of seeing before them that the Son they mourned, truly continued to live, like Jesus tells us our loved ones will. Although "The Dead Zone" was fictional, I wish the doctor who discovered his Mother survived the holocaust would have spoken with her and reassured her of his safety too.

It sounds like you think the 2008 of our story is when Marianne found Ulrich. I understood their past occasions to indicate that they continued to reunite in different places. However, made like that "Circle Of Eight" movie, the conscious people involved are tired of hoping their scenario will go right.

What you propose at the end is a new thought for me. I wonder if knowing other lifetimes or missions crowd our minds and be tiring, quantitatively, like a load? My capacity for having a lot of memories feels nice to me but they aren't of 600 years. However, I think we fit things into our lives and understandings. Marianne too knew which information belonged to whom but maybe general fatigue is possible. I will mull this over for awhile.

The gauge for good faith is if you are happy and healthy in its guidance and practice. You don't fault someone for not squeezing beliefs into the gospel book, for example. If you believed in a purple being and care about people, animals, trees and are living a good life; something we don't need to understand is working.

I would miss one baby or husband, except I believe we see them immediately when we ascend to Heaven. If they are living a physical life at that moment, it won't seem a long wait there. It is in physical life, I guess because we are limited, that we feel years. I also believe she must have reunited with her "soul mates" in other countries or centuries. Either we or Andrew would misunderstand the afterlife, if we thought you waited and waited on Earth to find someone. She must have had other children and loves too.

The true definition of a "soul group" or "mate" is not romance but our most beloved soul family, whom we sometimes gather with on Earth. You must be a part of my personal soul family, which is why we click and love sharing life with each other!

I think I have pondered as far as I can, unless more impressions of these awesome subjects form. We seem to finish when we can't tell if an author was misinformed about subject matter, or we have discussed everything to the extent we know. Your last point is fantastic too, that she knows how things work enough to know that Earth is not predictable for anyone, even those with previous life recall. If you soak thoughts in enough to share more, I am here.

Fair enough if singing isn't for you. You obviously relish the singing of others. Do you love live concerts? Are they regular in New Zealand? Winnipeg gets great names. Well, you know I have seen even Gordon Lightfoot with Ron in the early 2000s! In your memory stick is a list of "people I have seen in concert" that I thought you would get a kick out of.

With a surprising but worthwhile Louis Riel interlude, I will finish "The Hyde Park Headsman" (resembling Anne's first 1979 title that meant a lot to me during Love's last day). I will also get a little further in "The Wisdom Of Menopause". Dr. Christiane Northrup is spending a chapter listing hormone therapy options, even though neither of us believe in it. If it makes sense, I want to get those 40 pages out of the way and have NATURAL care options to look forward to.

It is our babies' birthday tomorrow! :) I will make sure I have a lot of space on my digital camera. I use a real camera.

When I start "The Dream Thieves", I will gobble it, won't you? Easing up here makes resuming e-mail easier. :) There is a ton of fun stuff to talk about privately. You know how you laughed at my "Hardy Boys" review for writing boldly: "Just fucking get a bigger boat"? I am happy to be back to my humour and the light, bright side of life, which I want you to know me for. I hope you always have seen it. Your friend, Carolyn.

[Kerri]

Hi Carolyn!
Sorry for the delay here!
I've enjoyed reading your tribute/s to Anne Perry. I will look for her first book next time I am in town. I looked online but could only find later books, but since she was so popular I'm sure it won't take too long to find a copy.
I was happy to see that Phyllis A. Whitney made it to 104! I hope my favourite authors achieve such a long, fulfilling life.

I never saw "Three's Company" but I remember John Ritter fondly from the first season of "8 Simple Rules". I haven't seen that first version of "It" but do want to watch it one day, partly for him, partly for Tim Curry who I also love.

It's interesting that you mentioned "Yellowjackets" as I have been thinking of watching that! I'm wondering if it's creepy scary or full horror scary. I prefer the first option!

I just got a copy of Pamela Anderson's book this week! I've always thought she seems sweet. There is a documentary about her that I might watch as well. I didn't see that interview, I will check and see if it is online.

"The Riel Rebellion ~ 1885" sounds interesting. I hadn't heard of this at all until you mentioned reading the book. Would the book be accessible to someone who knew nothing about it, or would some basic idea help? It's interesting that you have Metis history. I had to Google that to see what it meant! I'm glad your brother is interested in learning about it as well.

I ended up not taking a single photo on my birthday! I completely forgot! It was an enjoyable day though, although I was definitely missing Stevie. Rachael's cat Arni actually reminds me of Stevie quite a bit, so I was pleased I got to see him on the day. He has the same almost aggressive friendliness and lack of personal space boundaries! It sometimes seems odd that it's been over a year now, it seems like more and less time simultaneously.

I think I agree that Marianne must have found him repeatedly over her long life/lives, and maybe the anxious part was wanting there to be a final time, where they would both eventually die and have it stick! I did wonder if she became she became more mentally fragile as her mind was required to hold onto more and more past information, and more deaths along the way. I was happy for her that she felt she had reached the final death, as it must have felt well earned by that point! However, I did feel had for him at the same time.


I haven't been to that many live concerts actually. We usually get all the "big" artists if they are on a world tour, and lots of local artists too. But they very rarely come closer than Auckland, so that adds on hotel costs etc to ticket prices. I would consider that for an absolute favourite artist, but not one I liked rather than loved.

I was happy to see this: "I am happy to be back to my humour and the light, bright side of life, which I want you to know me for. I hope you always have seen it." - - I have always seen it, but I am glad that you are feeling back in the "light, bright side of life", which is a beautiful way to phrase it. 💖

[Kerri]

If there is anything in my latest post that left out topics you wanted to l discuss further let me know! I am on my phone for this response, which always makes it easier to overlook something, but as my phone is the only device I have with me right now, it'll have to do! 😂

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Kerri, I am glad you loved my tribute to Anne Perry and that you were compelled to read about Phyllis Ayame Whitney. I am the opposite about John Ritter. I feel sad to confirm that I recently found and copied Anne's e-mail address. I took my time simply writing to tell her what she meant to me during Love's sudden passing. It needn't have been long. Now Anne can see Love for herself.

"Three's Company" was a daring show when I was a little girl but it mainly comprised mock horror facial expressions, about ridiculous things like unmarried couples being intimate or people being openly gay. It is one show that wouldn't work now. I have loved seeing "Night Court" with Melissa Roach and "Fantasy Island" rebooted. I was too young for their original airings but saw a scene here & there. You know our slow internet doesn't let us into the downloading generation who can access any era's entertainment. We see what is on. We finally saw "Juliana And The Medicine Fish" two weeks ago and it was better than the novel! Ron loved it and it appeared to actually be filmed in Lake Of The Woods.

I was aware of John Ritter's new show but did not watch "Eight Rules", which I recently learned had Katy Segal and Kaley Cuoko in it. I only know Kaley from "The Big Bang Theory" and I often disliked Penny's character. I saw an interview about how happy Kaley was about Katy as "her TV Mom again" and figured out what she referred to, when she added "John Ritter must be looking down on us". I am a smart cookie who connects the dots. What can I say? :)

It is hilarious that you like Tim Curry and I wonder from where. I only know him as a bad guy but can't remember what the most recent film was, that turned me off of him. I know him from "Clue" and of course, loved that mystery and board game. He was a good guy in most of the scenarios but there was an alternative solution in which he was a villain. So when he was a villain again in another film, it was too much for me to like him anymore, hehe.

I am excited you have Pamela Anderson's autobiography and pleased that you & I are so often intrigued by the same authors and subjects. I put it on my birthday list and think Ron will find it easily. We scored did at the recent charity sale again! I would like to read "Spare" and soon, will easily find it everywhere second-hand. I except to be sympathetic as usual, not scorning as people were towards Matthew Perry, for reasons I don't get. People write their autobiographies to be properly understood in their own words and their audience is those among us who do sympathize, respect, and understand them.

I hope you took my advice and got birthday photographs of yourself and all your animals and other family. I feel relieved and gratified to have had a lovely photo session with Angel, Petal, and Ron. With so many of our pets gone suddenly, I am glad we always have photographs of each other together at the most recent birthdays and Christmas. If I dress less casually around our yard, I should go back to having candid photos of us too.

I am interested in which artists you have seen in concert, however small but that and a lot of this conversation can be in our letters. I hope you had fun with my list of arists I have seen live. I am happy to say it includes Gordon Lightfoot! I'll have to research if Tina Turner set foot in Winnipeg after I was old enough to see her. I was a baby when my friends & I convinced our parents to let us see Corey Hart. Midnight Oil played small venues here a lot, which I wish I had gone too. It used to be so common, I didn't consider the treat of them coming all the way from Australia.

I think our book conversation is concluding with your point here.
I appreciate your insight, that Marianne & Ulrich reunited prior and waited for a certain resolution to stick, like him surviving or her dying. It is an interesting extreme of opposites, looking at that sentence now. It doesn't seem that they wanted to ascend to the afterlife together, or she wouldn't walk into the ocean. It doesn't suggest that she gave up to join Ulrich in the lifetimes in which he died. Thus concludes my response to you and I can't think of anything you missed, either.

The one new thought that occurred to me, proves the value of mulling things over with time and consideration. That fucking jerk who was in our group briefly, was insulted by my advice that he whipped back replies too quickly to think anything over with any degree of seriousness or flexibility. The conclusions that have come to me prove him wrong to be sure.

It has dawned on me that it is not only the familiar association of a face that makes us equal in struggling with distortion. A person who did not slow down to think, would assume that a musician or carpenter would have more trouble losing their hands, or a dancer or athlete their feet. I understand now that none of that is so. What my hands and feet mean to me is no less important or vital than how anyone else uses theirs. Making an income from them does not make it easier for us to lose our mobility or dexterity, our daily functions. What say you?

I have an example that may not seem related but I remember Oprah Winfrey laughingly telling the story of when trainer, Bob Greene politely dared to chastise this prominent figure for tardiness. He said "My time is as valuable to me, as your time is to you" and it was one of her "aha moments".

Also having the appearance of being unrelated, is a fun example from "Sex And The City". New Yorker, Carrie kept going to expensive wedding and baby showers of city friends. One Mom insisted that shoes be removed and her Manolo Blanicks (I don't know how to spell it) were stolen. The Mom said she would replace them but the price was crazy and I agree with the price part. However, people without kids are sometimes outnumbered by those who have them.

I remember our former friends, early in our friendship, bluntly asking if we wanted to buy Christmas gifts for their Sons as well! It was our first gift exchange and I wish she had thought of a less direct way of asking, if she felt it appropriate to ask at all. We lived in an apartment because we couldn't yet afford our first house and they were in a pretty pricey place. Should we really buy for four? We didn't know their kids since they were babies and have that bond. They weren't little kids then. They were about 12 and didn't care to be included. So I stammered that it was just us couples and hated being put on the spot.

This former friend (you know who) often disregarded me as a future Mom, even though I had years ahead for it. Later, she disregarded my niece & nephew. A few times, I asked for help with her van, to pick up a used rack I found for my fledgling card business. You could hear by her tone that she thought her Grandkids (not even children who lived with her!) should have books or toys that were in those racks. I didn't work this out in my mind until years later. When she nearly took off with my baby blanket and clothes home made by Mom!

I usually gave her some, without much chance to look over the merchandise myself, privately. I felt I should thank her for driving me. She was usually an hour late and I wound up with a $50.00 parking ticket one time! I realize now and didn't tell her, that her suggestion that she had more use for children's items than we did, was inappropriate. There is a little time for us to have kids if the situation were right and if we don't, I have a niece & nephew.

You might remember the way the "Sex And The City" dilemma was solved boldly, for the sake of Carrie's friendship. She decided that her attendance of supportive gatherings was uneven. So she whimsily wrote that she was getting married to herself and was registered for only one gift: the thousand dollar shoes. The woman got the hint and mailed them to her.

Whether or not I compose music, literature, furniture, or architecture with my hands or accomplish daring skills with my feet: they are 100% valuable to a healthy, comfortable, fit life for me and no less important than anyone else's body parts. I imagine all these examples make sense to you too. It was fun to think something over for a long time and see my mind change.

Thank you for sharing this book with me and for enjoying my roundabout, colourful examples. :) With love, your friend, Carolyn.

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

I let you know on October 2. Your contribution did not miss anything but I would enjoy knowing your reaction to the stories I shared in my last post.

[Kerri]

A quick happy birthday mention again before I delve back into the conversation!

I have seen clips from "Three's Company" but never a full episode. I think I would not enjoy it, simply because of those scenarios you mentioned, but I do love that it helped with the career of someone very talented. I'm also quite fond of Suzanne Somers and was sad to read she had recently died. However I am glad she lived her life as she wanted to, and long outlived her initial prognosis.

I used to watch "8 Simple Rules" alot. It also had David Spade and James Garner in it, after John Ritter died. They were good, but that first season while he was still alive was definitely the best, to me at least. I don't know if it's a show I would revisit, but I liked it a lot at the time.
I have not heard if "Night Court" or "Fantasy Island" but I do like Melissa Roach. I first saw her on "True Blood" a show I liked, although I struggled at times with the hypergraphic violence! She played a girlfriend of a very tall character, so they were supposed to be a bit of a mismatch! Her regular voice is so different to the one she uses in "The Big Bang Theory"!

"Juliana And The Medicine Fish" sounds good. I looked it up and it has Adam Beach in it, who I liked in a show called "Big Love". I'm glad you were able too see it! I am lucky that I can access some things through streaming, but something on have noticed is that in New Zealand, we don't get all the shows that the equivalent service offers in the US. Which is slightly annoying, but hardly a massive life problem. I very rarely watch live tv anymore though, as so much of it is reality tv shows, which I very rarely enjoy.

The first thing I saw Tim Curry in was "Annie", the version with Carol Burnett. He plays her scheming brother Rooster, and introduces himself in the movie by crowing! He is great in this, singing, dancing, and doing terrible things. Also "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", "Muppet Treasure Island" and animated tv show called "The Wild Thornberries" which was about a girl who could talk to animals. He voiced her father and he was very funny in it! He is good at playing children's villains, where is genuinely scary, but not inappropriately, which must be quite challenging.

Yes I am hoping to enjoy Pamela Anderson's book. I am not particularly interested in "Spare" but I did order the audio book of Barbra Streisand's book, which I am looking forward to. I am also considering the audio version of Patrick Stewart's book, as I think his voice will be pleasant. I still want Matthew Perry's book - I looked online and it's out of stock, unsurprisingly, but I'll get it eventually. I'm sure it will read with an extra layer of sadness now though.
I am also considering "Behind the Seams" by Dolly Parton - probably not literally Dolly Parton, but I think it's a book where the photos would be the highlight as it's about her outfits, which looks like a lot of fun!

I didn't need up getting any photos on my birthday as everyone was exhausted, and half asleep! But we'll probably get plenty at Christmas time. 🎄🎅

Of the artist's I have seen perform in person, I can only remember "The Topp Twins", whose book I just finished, and Frankie Stevens. It's a shame you missed Midnight Oil, but I'm glad you have seen such a fun array of acts.

Although I think I get what Andrew Davidson was trying to do with separating the couple, I personally feel it would have made more sense to have them live out the remainder of their lives together. However, I appreciate that it's his book not mine!

Yes, I agree that loss of mobility or dexterity would challenge everyone. I think it would be shocking to realise the impact it can have. Sometimes when people lose an arm for instance, it isn't just the loss of that limb, it entirely changes your balance, can affect the structure of the body. For probably all people, that would be a profound change. I like that Bob Greene example, and also think that's a great point to bear in my mind for day to day life. Each person's time is equally valuable to them - I'm going to remember that! And your right, it applies elsewhere too.

Gosh, asking if you'll buy presents for basically unknown children feels too much, even without money being tight. I do think, perhaps unintentionally, that some people are unable to consider that others aren't in the exact same position as they are. It's a kind of carelessness that can be quite hurtful, even if they don'ti intend it to be.
I knew about the baby clothes, but the extra details you just gave did make me raise my eyebrows! It seems presumptuous in the extreme to expect you to cater to someone's else's children in those scenarios. And a $50 parking ticket is pretty substantial! That quote feels more and more relevant!

I have only seen the first season of "Sex and the City", so I am not familiar with that particular dilemma of Carrie's, but I like the solution! On a serious note, imagine how much all those successive gifts would have cost Carrie over the years! 💰💳😂 I sympathise with the friend having to cover such an expensive pair of shoes though, but I can also see why if you had shoes that expensive, you would want them replaced! In fairness, they are lovely shoes!

I think it's very true that our own body, especially the 'vital parts' is valuable to us all, regardless of what we do with it.

One other thing I just thought of, unless I already mentioned it and have forgotten, is the contrast between him and her in terms of their bodies. He initially perhaps values it for the wrong reasons, as a way to make money or get high, and then struggled, understandably, with his now much altered physice. Marianne once saw hers as something to decorate or turn into art, with her tattoos, but by the end she doesn't value it all. It is a vessel that she is willing to mutilate, starve and eventually drown. They aren't opposites exactly, but it's interesting that he realised he was more than his body, in a positive sense, allowing him to live again, and she same but allowing her to kill herself.
I'm not sure if I fully made sense there, but hopefully you get what I mean!

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

Where do you keep finding out about every celebrity? You always know about Anne Perry and stuff and say "I read that she died". Where? I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT SUZANNE SOMMERS. I am shocked because I had looked her up exetensively recently. While "Three's Company" is cheesy and dependent on things society shouldn't get shocked about; she was a beautiful woman, intelligent, and a career powerhouse. I don't think she did much acting. She had a lot health material, even if I didn't agree with working your face muscles with her tool.

I saw her interview on "The Ellen DeGeneres Show" at least once. I have been touched by her because she had lost her home to a fire. Ellen returned photographs to her in an album they made.

You said "US", when I wonder if it should be "North America". Do you have a hard time getting their TV but not ours? Adam Beach is from Manitoba. Many American shows oddly, are filmed in Canada. We intertwine.

The end of your musings is fantastic. I didn't think of that at all, so it was worth hearing from you again. As I have written about more times than I need to repeat, starting with that "Paul" asshole we dumped out of here, the theme of a nude actor finding it harder to lose their body health is false. We decided "no" with a million great examples, including those I am relieved you read today.

It is a whole other mental concept, that Ulrich valued his body properly when he struggled with it but a healthy woman wrecked her and decorated it. I am not into tattoos. The more natural we leave our skin the better. I would never say anything to anyone but it doesn't take many for me to wince. Don't worry about my new age today: I said this at 10!

Thank you very much for birthday greetings in our public place, Kerri! I had saved reading this and wrote about myself in our "The Dream Thieves" folder. Ron might have given me Pamela's and Henry's autobiographies.

I didn't know why we would talk about Tim Curry, an actor I hardly know. A refresher showed me this was my surprise when you must have mentioned him. I don't remember why you mentioned him, haha. Yes, he would be a great kids' villain. I think this is it, except for a vent about your observation that some people who are wealthy don't navigate their friends?

Ours were generous in the last decade. They bought around 3 items from Amazon.ca and it was exciting, because I dislike spending more than $15.00 CDN for a book. No matter how much it interests me, I'd rather cobble more items together. Meanwhile, they allowed us to give them used books from our brimming collection. It was probably the same value but I got them at lower prices. They shopped in the library for about 5 items each and I think they had fun. It saved us money. I'll give credit to people who started out as fine friends. Too bad they didn't know us as well as they should.

Ron & I were vegetarian by 2004, or we had removed mammals at least. We liked ordering pizza with friends and it tastes the same no matter what you put on it, in North America. It is easier to buy vegetarian pizzas for everyone to share. Most people buy one vegetarian and one or two meat ones but take from our box the same. Their boys arrived after being and had any pizza they wanted. They expected us to pay a half share. I didn't think what to say at that time.

Thank you for giving me a variety of subjects to write about today. I was busy with birthday greetings yesterday. This was fun, dear Kerri. Love, Birthday Girl Carolyn.

[Kerri]

Most days I scroll through a few different newspapers online, a couple local, a couple international. I'm sure I miss plenty of significant deaths, but if I recognise a name I typically click. I used to watch "Step by Step" with Suzanne Somers, so I recognised her name immediately. I wasn't familiar with the face tool you mentioned, so just looked it up - I've never used anything with a microcurrent or whatever it is, but I suppose it's less harmful than botox or fillers! She used to advertise that thigh machine, so it makes sense she ventured to other parts of the body!
I wasn't aware of the house fire, but that was a kind gesture.

There do seem to be a few Canadian shows on a streaming service called Acorn, but we don't subscribe to that. And I have seen "The Good Witch" and some Canadian Christmas movies, but this is probably only a small selection of what is actually available.

I find some tattoos lovely, well suited to a personality, but I don't personally have have any and don't think I will get one. We do have a lot of cultural tattoos here, for Maori and Pacific Islanders, and the stories and meaning of them can be interesting. I was reading about possible risks of tattoo ink reacting with UV rays, and how they aren't sure if this harmful or not, so I'll pass until they have confirmed either way! Also I've seen footage of people having them removed and it looks brutal. When I think about what I would have chosen at 18,knowing I wouldn't want it permanently on my body, I'm glad I didn't. I do remember reading about a rugby player here who has tattoos covering burns on the back of his legs, and it think that is an interesting idea. I did wonder if it would be more painful though!

I just received your email mentioning you may edit your comment above, so I will refrain from answering the second half in case you would prefer to move that discussion to email. Of you do, maybe copy and paste what you wrote before editing, as I do have some thoughts! 😂
If you do leave it, I'll add my thoughts in another message tomorrow! 💭

[C. (Comment, never msg).]

I will find pleasure in seeing your thoughts, like a release of negative emotions and subjects. As always too, the warmth of you understanding me well and supporting me two decades later. Love, Carolyn.

[Kerri]

I'm glad of that, Carolyn! It's interesting to see these things you mentioned above, especially in light of the last year. It's also fascinating to be reminded of all the various topics we discussed while also covering so much of "The Gargoyle".