A question for fellow writers

[Cody]

If I was ever told that my writing sounded like a "nice hobby," I would also feel kind of annoyed and peeved at that. However, I'm very private with my writing and also about being a writer--it's not something I go out of my way to do, since if anyone asks I'm an open book about most things about myself, but I'm just introverted and often antisocial. I've been personally fortunate enough never to get a reaction like that to being a writer, as people think it's pretty neat when I explain it to them (maybe it's a small town thing? Knowing most of the people you talk to). But your frustration is absolutely justified!

[Daniella]

Cody wrote: "If I was ever told that my writing sounded like a "nice hobby," I would also feel kind of annoyed and peeved at that. However, I'm very private with my writing and also about being a writer--it's ..."

Cody, I'm fortunate that my family and friends have always been extremely supportive of my writing. Most people think it's neat as you said, but then there are the others who come up with the "nice hobby" comment. I've gotten it very often. However, I don't respond to it. I just grit my teeth and smile. There's no point arguing. They are not going to change their opinion. The most important thing I can do is to keep writing.

[Lynne]

Daniella, Ken, Cody, Thierry (I'm missing someone, but here goes!) in re the "big publishers" publishing crap and not doing PR, my experience in two encounters with big publishers is that they are betting that a new writer they take on will make money. I actually had a well-known editor who acquired my first novel reject the second saying, "I don't think we can make money on this." That was 1989.

Fast forward to 1999, I spent the time writing and also learning book promotion through the wonderful Sisters in Crime mystery writers organization. I wrote a book with a series plan and chose a highly motivated small press publisher to work with me on getting it out there and keeping it out there. After two years of what he called "dogfighting" to make that happen, the book sold out its first printing, both the publishing house and I got an agent and sold my series to the same publisher who had taken my first book. They did a nice job on it but I did all the PR myself. When the 2nd book in that series didn't sell wildly right out of the gate my editor asked why and I told him that the small press publisher was on the phone daily to bookstores, worked tirelessly to get it out there. The editor wasn't interested.

I ended up out of print again and I learned that big publishers are looking for magic. They want the author to do all the promo work. They DO provide the stamp of approval that gets your book reviews in the major magazines (Publishers Weekly, etc.), but they give you a very limited window of opportunity. A "shelf life" of a few months to sell big or get out.

The publishing industry has now changed to the point where we have more resources to make our own magic. There are no guarantees, but some of us are too crazy to quit!

Write on!

[Riley, Viking Extraordinaire]

Lynne wrote: "Daniella, Ken, Cody, Thierry (I'm missing someone, but here goes!) in re the "big publishers" publishing crap and not doing PR, my experience in two encounters with big publishers is that they are ..."

Thank you for sharing, and I think I agree, though I will admit, I'm with a small press myself right now.

[Daniella]

Riley wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Daniella, Ken, Cody, Thierry (I'm missing someone, but here goes!) in re the "big publishers" publishing crap and not doing PR, my experience in two encounters with big publishers is ..."

Lynne, I'm with a small press too. In December, I signed a three-book contract with Black Opal Books for the first novels in my mystery series. The first book will be released later this year. It's in the editing process at the moment. In the interim, I'm working on the fourth book in the series. I still don't have an agent, but Black Opal didn't require one. Everyone from the editors to my fellow authors have been wonderful thus far. Everyone provides tremendous support and some great advice. There's a lot to be said for small presses.

[Lynne]

Riley and Daniella, I've had some great experiences with small presses. Even now, Pearlsong Press is supportive of my experiments with self-publishing smaller works. Of course, I make it a point to put links in the back of the self-published work to the earlier works that Pearlsong is keeping in print! It's a labor of love for both parties!

[Shay]

I understand that feeling. I think the most important thing is to surround yourself with people who understand what you do and how important it is to you.

[Daniella]

Shayna wrote: "I understand that feeling. I think the most important thing is to surround yourself with people who understand what you do and how important it is to you."

Shayna, you are absolutely right. Everyone has their own strengths and interests, which should be appreciated. These differences should be appreciated. The world would be a very dull place, if we all liked the same things.

[Greg]

I am looking for input from fellow authors. In addition to my poetry, I also write fiction. I think I'm passable or decent at writing the narratives and descriptive passages but I have always struggled with dialogue. Am I trying too hard? When I go back and read it, my dialogue seems stilted and contrived. Do any of you have the same problem and how do you deal with it?

Greg Seeley

[D.K.]

Hi Greg! I found myself in a similar situation when I started writing dialogue. I wrote scenes over and over again until I was happy with how the words flowed. What I found worked best for me was if I tried to insert myself into the conversation I was trying to write. I'd ask myself, what would I say? How would I respond? Then I would write the conversation.

Hope that helps a little bit! :)

[Greg]

Thierry wrote: "Oh yeah! But after a while you get to see the humor of it. I've been a writer almost my entire professional life. I always enjoy the implication that what I do is either a hobby or easy, or both. ..."

In my "former" life, I was a certified public accountant specializing in auditing financial statements. Depending on the size of the audit, one could often take weeks of planning and preparation before doing the actual audit which could also take weeks. Once in a while, I would get a call from a potential client who would be in a panic and ask, "Can you come out tomorrow afternoon and audit our books?"
Kinda the same thing. A lot of people just don't get it.

Greg Seeley

[Greg]

Ruth wrote: "Hi Greg--67? Congratulations! I'll be 80 in June and have written 6 novels and a family history in the past few years. My website is www.ruthchoward.com """""""Writing is my passion and I hope..."

Ruth,

That is so doggone cool. I wish you many more years of fun and productive writing.
Greg Seeley

[Greg]

Daniella wrote: "Greg wrote: "I'm 67 years old and just getting started. One book of poetry published, another mostly written and nearly finished draft of my debut novel."

Greg, That's wonderful. I wish you the ..."

Thank you, Daniella!! Continued success to you.

[Daniella]

Greg wrote: "Daniella wrote: "Greg wrote: "I'm 67 years old and just getting started. One book of poetry published, another mostly written and nearly finished draft of my debut novel."

Greg, That's wonderful..."

Greg, Thank you very much.

[B.K.]

My daughter asked me last night what I was doing. I answered, "Writing. Remember, I work an hour every evening on writing, and an hour on marketing." She asked, "For how long?" Oh honey....

[Riley, Viking Extraordinaire]

B.K. wrote: "My daughter asked me last night what I was doing. I answered, "Writing. Remember, I work an hour every evening on writing, and an hour on marketing." She asked, "For how long?" Oh honey...."

Lol, cute

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Greg wrote: "I have always struggled with dialogue. Am I trying too hard? When I go back and read it, my dialogue seems stilted and contrived. Do any of you have the same problem and how do you deal with it?"

Without seeing your writing, it's difficult to know. Maybe your dialogue is fine. Maybe you're being too critical. But, if you're right, then the best I can suggest is listen. Listen close to how people talk. Wherever you go, listen in on conversations and how people interact, the words, the grammar. Listen to how different kinds of people say the same phrases.

Then there is this: get to know your characters inside and out. What does their voice sound like? What slang are they likely to use? What accent do they have? When you get to know your characters well enough, they'll begin talking on their own. Sounds crazy, but it happens.

[B.K.]

And that's only what I do BEFORE she goes to bed. She knows I also work a 9-5 and cannot wrap her mind around why I would volunteer to do MORE work after.

[Daniella]

Dwayne wrote: "Greg wrote: "I have always struggled with dialogue. Am I trying too hard? When I go back and read it, my dialogue seems stilted and contrived. Do any of you have the same problem and how do you dea..."

Dwayne, You are absolutely correct. Listening to others and seeing how they interact with one another is crucial to being a writer. A writer has to be an observer of life. I also agree that you have to know everything about your characters. It is essential to making them believable.

[[deleted user]]

I agree with Dwayne on dialogue. I have had trouble in the past with dialogue but feel I am improving. I tend, for the most part, to use country characters because I am from Texas. Believe me, I do not use proper English when I speak! I use slang with certain characters, depending on where my setting takes place. It's so funny when someone that "ain't from around these parts" ask me what a word means or tries to tell me that I totally messed up! But it's probably the same for me when I read something that I'm not familiar with. I try to figure it out by re-reading the sentence or paragraph or going so far as to actually look the word up! I think it's fun to develop different characters and their personalities!

[Greg]

Thanks for all of the constructive ideas. Some of it is a little harder in that the characters in my draft novel lived 150 years ago but some things haven't changed much.
Thanks again.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Greg wrote: "Thanks for all of the constructive ideas. Some of it is a little harder in that the characters in my draft novel lived 150 years ago but some things haven't changed much.
Thanks again."

Hmm... do you have a Ouija board?

[Greg]

Don't have a Ouija board - only a college major in history. Do you think a board would help? Could probably find one.

[Charles]

I love writing dialogue. I think it is one of my strengths. Its the descriptions that I don't have the patience to write, so I keep them minimal.

[Rose]

Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. ..."
I have dealt with this quite a bit, especially since I'm a younger author. As if what I write isn't worth consideration. I have no wise words of wisdom for you, only the fact that I can relate.

[Daniella]

Rose wrote: "Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending..."

Rose, It's nice to know that I'm not alone. I look forward to exchanging ideas in the future.

[Greg]

D.K. wrote: "Hi Greg! I found myself in a similar situation when I started writing dialogue. I wrote scenes over and over again until I was happy with how the words flowed. What I found worked best for me wa..."

Thanks. It does help. Or perhaps if I could just be invisible in the scene and listen and write down what he characters say. It might also give a better insight into my own characters if I could eavesdrop on them instead of tying to "tell them what to say". I like your idea. Thanks again

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Greg wrote: "Don't have a Ouija board - only a college major in history. Do you think a board would help? Could probably find one."

Back when I was into that kind of thing, I made my own. (I don't recommend it).

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Charles wrote: "I love writing dialogue. I think it is one of my strengths. Its the descriptions that I don't have the patience to write, so I keep them minimal."

That's actually a good thing, Charles. Lengthy descriptions are often not necessary and can really bog down a story. There is a time and place for them, but often times it's best to just stick to the details that convey what you need to convey and move on.

[Charles]

Dwayne wrote: "Charles wrote: "I love writing dialogue. I think it is one of my strengths. Its the descriptions that I don't have the patience to write, so I keep them minimal."

That's actually a good thing, C..."

I agree, but I used to enjoy descriptive writing a lot more. Now its just so tedious.

[K.]

I think this subject is part of being a writer. As such we are on the fringe, out of the main stream, on the path less taken. I seldom mention I'm a writer because few people can add to that topic of conversation. Once in a while though, I can't help but drop a Churchill jab into the mix of bankers or the like at a gathering.

[B.K.]

I just read some truly awful dialogue I wrote years ago. I was writing people the way I imagined they would sound older (than I was at the time), more educated (than I was at the time). Now that I am older and better educated, I can lol at my attempt to make my characters to sound sophisticated. It is hard to be authentic when you are writing what you think people sound like (ie. a period piece) vs. what you know.

What helps me is 'writing' out scenes in my head when I am laying in bed at night, basically imagining every character interaction an dialogue before I actually start writing. Then read what I write aloud. It is sometimes easier to hear awkward dialogue vs. recognize it when you read it. Finally, read plenty of dialogue heavy books in your genre and see what works....what doesn't.

[Riley, Viking Extraordinaire]

are we talking about how we form our worlds now? I build mine cell by cell in my mind, add characters for personality....then watch the movie that unfolds in my head.

[[deleted user]]

I found Angela Ackerman and Becca Puglisi's books, "The Emotion Thesaurus", "The Positive Trait Thesaurus" and "The Negative Trait Thesaurus" extremely helpful for writing good dialogue, particularly "The Emotion Thesaurus." I also found Renni Browne Dave King's "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" extremely useful.

[D.]

Daniella wrote: "One more thing I wanted to add but I hit post too quickly. I would like to know how many of the people who say "nice hobby" have written a book. I've completed the first three novels in my mystery ..."

You are a rock star! Three done and one in the works. Yeah, it is JUST a hobby. Those poor souls that say that have no idea of what we're doing or the bliss we find when the scene we just finished works.

[K.S.]

I think this is because people include writing in with all the art forms. If a person paints landscapes and has never sold one, then it is a hobby. If they have sold a couple then it still could be considered a hobby. I don't see the word "hobby" as insulting. For most it simply denotes whether the person makes a living at the task. I have been practicing martials arts for 32 years. I feel extremely confident that I can defend myself and others in any physical situation. Do I want to try my hand at MMA? No.
It also works the other way. You can be a professional painter or writer who also has another job. Where the line is drawn is personal. Lee Child, the author of the Jack Reacher series, is a retired police officer. Is he a professional writer or is it a hobby for him? Only he can answer for himself.

[B.K.]

Charles wrote: "I found Angela Ackerman and Becca Puglisi's books, "The Emotion Thesaurus", "The Positive Trait Thesaurus" and "The Negative Trait Thesaurus" extremely helpful for writing good dialogue, particula..."

"The Emotion Thesaurus" is an excellent book. In addition to using it for writing, I use as a study guide for my daughter, who has Aspergers, to help her learn to read body language.

[Julie]

My two year old granddaughter has so many books it is hard to choose which one to read to her. If she has a choice between a toy and a book she'll always choose the book. She'll even look at a book rather than the TV, until something musical comes on!I just hope this lasts.

[Igzy]

I've heard it said many times that my writing is an avocation rather than a vocation, usually by grumbly old Jewish uncles who would rather I start a brick and mortar business, or join the ranks of my lawyer cousins (which, ringing in my ears since I was 3, is still sounding like a viable option). If you are making money on your writing, are expanding your fan base, and are pursuing it with purpose and drive, then you can feel a little snickety. I don't really like hearing my writing called a hobby either, but from where I stand until I'm supporting myself solely on my writing it is merely a passion of mine that I am developing into a paying skill.

If you love it you love it. Don't let other people get you down or tell you how to define yourself, and keep tapping away at those keys. Writers write.

[Lee]

Does anyone have a spouse who tells you you're wasting your time, no one is going to buy your books? I have a full time job and write at night.

[Daniella]

Lee wrote: "Does anyone have a spouse who tells you you're wasting your time, no one is going to buy your books? I have a full time job and write at night."

Lee, I, too, work full time. I can only write in the evenings when I come home from work and on the weekends. Therefore, I can understand you completely.

[Lee]

Daniella, yes. I enjoy the writing and creating and it sucks to feel guilty when you do it.

[[deleted user]]

Lee - Fortunately my husband is very supportive of my writing. My parents and my sisters on the other hand, not so much. I have been writing since I was very young and my Mom always said it was a waste of time and always wanted me to get my "nose out of the book". She didn't seem remotely proud of me until I won an award in high school and had a big dinner in my honor. I am one of those behind-the-scenes type people so it was quite intimidating for me. Still though, to this day, my Mom doesn't understand my passion and it kind of hurts but I try to be happy that I am different from my siblings and be myself.

Try not to let anyone (even your spouse) get you down about your writing. Tell them it's who you are and if they cannot accept your writing that, in a sense, they aren't accepting you. It's okay to be different. If he/she loves sports, but you can care less, let him/her have his/her thing. If he/she loves cars, let him/her be. You can love the person but don't always have to love EVERYTHING about them. Going about your business is one thing, but don't be mean and degrade someone else for being who they are. My opinion, for what it's worth.

[Daniella]

Melissa wrote: "Lee - Fortunately my husband is very supportive of my writing. My parents and my sisters on the other hand, not so much. I have been writing since I was very young and my Mom always said it was a..."

Lee and Melissa, I'm lucky that my family and friends have always been extremely supportive of my writing. Therefore, I do my best to ignore those try to diminish what I do.

[Lee]

Melissa, thanks. I know this but it still gets me down. When it gets really bad, I go talk with my horse.

[David]

On the other hand, there are those in my life (relatives, friends, and professional colleagues alike) who wonder out loud why I am not writing full time. The fact that I have another profession is seen by some as a distraction, an impediment to my "real" purpose. I take that as an affirmation that my writing touches them somehow but it doesn't pay the bills. Still, I love my "day job" and want to slide gracefully from one life to the next, hopefully without going through the starving artist phase. David Hopper

[Julie]

Lee, I know it is infuriating when one's offspring won't read the books you have written even if you give them a free copy. If it was the other way round you would be supportive and encouraging. Hubby reads mine, but nobody considers them anything other than a hobby.Don't feel hurt, just be happy when other people appreciate them.

[Susan]

several years ago when I was working on my first book, my teen-age daughter read my first draft and told me she was surprised I had an imagination! I laughed out loud - guess I was just a mom in her eyes!

[David]

Susan wrote: "several years ago when I was working on my first book, my teen-age daughter read my first draft and told me she was surprised I had an imagination! I laughed out loud - guess I was just a mom in he..."

Ha! I can identify. My grown son doesn't let on that he's ever read my work. (He's on the other side of the globe, so I assume he's... distracted.) My adult daughter, however, wrote a touching review that I still appreciate:

This book was so great, it made me cry more than once. The story is so moving - I loved that Bobby and Mercy could have such a beautiful and understanding friendship throughout the years despite the racial tensions surrounding them. It's an unexpected story - not your typical and predictable "love story."

Of course, as a father, she had me at, "made me cry..."

[Philip]

I went to the post office the other day to post off books to my giveaway winners. The lady serving me asked if these were my books as a bit of a joke. I just replied yes. (I think it's important for my own sense of self that I own these little things.)

Anyway, while it was just small talk, she then threw out the "I've always wanted to write a book" like it's quite simplistic and she's just been too busy. I just smiled because I couldn't think of a reasonable response to this small talk... (any suggestions in case this comes up in the future are appreciated)... but I also couldn't help myself thinking that you can only really say something like that in a serious manner if you consider writing books to be something simple which could be done in a weekend. The hard work, fighting through the block and all the torturous rewrites don't factor in. All the bad times don't exist in their mind. All that is seen is the glory at the end. This just seemed like a sensible place to share this little experience with everyone.