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Demon Copperhead Discussion (spoilers ok)
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Thanks for the information, Ann! And thanks for nominating this incredible book for the reading list! It was really cool to be reading it when the announcement came that it won the Pulitzer! I agree with you that it was a good old-fashioned page-turner.
Some thoughts/questions:
I was furious when Demon was punched and robbed at the truck stop. I kept hoping he would run into the prostitute or assaultive attendant again.
I wondered exactly how Demon's dad died at Devil's Bathtub, and also wondered whether Fast Forward knew and was going to reveal it to him, perhaps in a tormenting way? Fast Forward seemed like a sociopath. How do y'all think Demon's dad died?
I wish we could have seen one of the Red Neck comics that Demon drew!
What did y'all think about the ending? What do you think happens with Demon and Angus?
I often go back and read many of Constant Reader's book discussions, but this is the first time I am actually commenting in a current discussion. I loved this book and shelved it among my GR favorites. It was a page-turner and it didn't seem like a 500+ page novel to me.
I thought Barbara Kingsolver did a fabulous job with Demon's narration. She just let him do all the talking and I found his voice to be very authentic.
I read this late last year, but I assumed Demon's dad drowned in Devil's Bathtub, possibly showing off for Demon's mom or maybe under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or both. I think Devil's Bathtub served as a symbol of death for Demon.
I would love to see the Red Neck comics, too, Justin! That would be a great little spin-off novella.
I loved the ending. I'm not usually one for endings culminating in romances, but in this case it was perfect! I thought it was a perfect ending.
Ann,I feel that the social issues presented by Barbara Kingsolver in DC were not heavy-handed. Possibly the excellent first-person narration helped in that aspect. It just seemed like a real story told by a real person born into a life with so many more obstacles to overcome than most people are born into.
I was only vaguely familiar with David Copperfield, so I did not foresee many of the plot twists that other readers familiar with David Copperfield did. That is a great question for the DC aficionados.
I liked the way she explored the topics of opioid addiction and the stereotypes of people who live in Appalachia. The ending, however, was disappointing; for me, it was trite and a bit forced.
I am almost finished…should be tomorrow. I do like this very much. The parallels with David Copperfield are well done and I especially enjoyed Uncle Dick once I realized who he was. As far as the onset of the pain pill factories and Demon’s treatment, it struck me as spot on. Kingsolver knows where she comes from and what has happened there. And I was fascinated by the conversations about hillbillies and all.
I went back to check on the death of Demon's father. The best explanation I could find was on page 455 (Kindle edition). Demon says:June told me he drowned or broke his neck. Probably both at once, because he dived from up high on the bank. I asked her why did it happen. She said there was talk that he was drunk or showing off, but Mom swore it was her fault, he was in so much hurry to get to her. She’d gone in the water without knowing it was deep. Mom couldn’t swim.
His mother was never the same after his father died and couldn't talk to Demon about his dad.
When Demon asked June what is father was like:
She said exactly like me. In looks, word, and deed. A beautiful man with too much heart for the raw deal he got.
I have no doubt that Fast Forward meant to torment Demon in some way by luring him to the scene of his father's death, but the reader is told no one ever knew exactly was his plan was.
There do seem to be several characters in this book who were irredeemably bad, at least by the time we meet them: Fast Forward, U-Hall, foster parent Creaky, and stepfather Stoner.
I loved the book, however, I had to return it to the library. But I'm really enjoying the discussion and remembering the greatest parts of the story.
This book reminded me of This Tender Land and The Lincoln Highway in the way that it dealt with young people (boys in particular) who are left to survive on their own without much help from the adults who should be taking care of them. At times I was heartbroken and on the edge of my seat as Demon (and others, like Dori) faced so many perils as he struggled to survive on his own.I got really angry with the many adults who either took advantage of him or just seemed not to care what happened to him. They were a strong contrast with those few who did care about him and tried to help (Mr. Armstrong, Ms. Annie, and June, for example). His inner strength was impressive, and I agree with those who have mentioned how authentic the first-person narration felt.
K wrote: "I often go back and read many of Constant Reader's book discussions, but this is the first time I am actually commenting in a current discussion … I thought Barbara Kingsolver did a fabulous job with Demon's narration. She just let him do all the talking and I found his voice to be very authentic … I loved the ending. I'm not usually one for endings culminating in romances, but in this case it was perfect! I thought it was a perfect ending.” K, it is great to have you jump into the discussion! I completely agree about Demon’s narration. It was so impressive and it really conveyed his admirable character and his intelligence (being gifted and talented).
I thought the ending was perfect. I normally prefer clear-cut endings, but the ambiguity in this one worked. It was clear Demon and Angus cared for each other, and it was clear that a turning point in their relationship (from friendly or sibling-like to romantic) had been reached.
Mary wrote: “I liked the way she explored the topics of opioid addiction and the stereotypes of people who live in Appalachia.”
I liked this, too. She perfectly conveyed the life course of opioid addiction, beginning with an injury (Demon’s in football) or with easy access to drugs in a household (Dori’s case); continuing because of withdrawal symptoms, which Demon discussed at length, and because of peer use (e.g., Demon saying that virtually every kid he knew had used) and criminal doctors providing access (Dr. Watts); ending because of overdose (Dori’s) or the hitting of rock bottom when social support is available (e.g., Emmy).
Ann D wrote: "I went back to check on the death of Demon's father. The best explanation I could find was on page 455 (Kindle edition). Demon says..."Ann D., thanks for finding this. I recalled that the information given to Demon included some uncertainty about exactly what happened. Part of me wondered whether Fast Forward intended to do, successfully, what Demon's father failed to do (i.e., dive from up high). It is notable, however, that both dimensions of Demon's father's death (showing off and saving, breaking his neck and drowning) emerged in the end, but separated (i.e., Fast Forward's body broke, whereas Hammer drowned). There might be some kind of symbolism in this.
Lynn wrote: "At times I was heartbroken and on the edge of my seat as Demon (and others, like Dori) faced so many perils as he struggled to survive on his own ... I got really angry with the many adults who either took advantage of him or just seemed not to care what happened to him."
I was on the edge of my seat, too, particularly early on when Stoner moved in, and then later when Demon was struggling with what to do with Dori. I was angry throughout with the adults and with the system that cared more about placing orphans than about ensuring that they were treated well.
K and Justin, I really liked the ending too. I had an inkling that Angus and Demon would end up together after I read early-on that her real name was "Agnes." I have forgotten most of my long ago read of David Copperfield, but I did recall that David ended up with Agnes. Most of the time those bizarre hats obscure Angus's physical appearance, but shortly after Demon realizes she is a girl, the narrator tells us that she has big grey eyes and "curly, slightly moppy blond hair." That sounds reasonably attractive. But it is her personality, rather than her appearance, that impresses the reader. Angus is repeatedly described as "chill." She also genuinely wants Demon to be happy, and even though she disapproves of Dori she doesn't try to break them up.
Demon needs someone like Angus if he is ever going to be able to maintain his sobriety. If the implied happy ending is not entirely realistic, so what. Sometimes good, but troubled people finally do get what they deserve. That trip to the ocean- certainly a symbol of good things to come-was the icing on the cake.
Lynn, I liked your comparison to the boys in This Tender Land and The Lincoln Highway who are also left on their own to make their way. I really enjoyed both of those novels.Like others here, I also found Demon's voice authentic. I was impressed with Kingsolver's ability to write a much younger, male character. She lives in Appalachia, so that was certainly a crucial factor in the very realistic setting.
Mary and Sue, I was also struck by the descriptions of the opioid epidemic. I knew that it is very difficult to kick the habit, but I really didn't understand just how dependent and "dopesick" the drug makes people. I was glad to learn that there is a drug -Suboxon - that can help addicts withdraw. Justin, good comparison of Fast Forward's death at Devils Bathtub with that of Demon's father. I hadn't thought of that.
I really liked this book. Of course, Kingsolver has something of a head start in that she has the framework of one of Dickens' classics as the underpinnings for her story. I read David Copperfield many years ago, so my memory isn't all that sharp. But I do remember that the hero was pushed around, shoved around, and voluntarily made huge mistakes, but ended up ok in the end. So I had some idea that would be the case for Demon. I didn't know exactly what would happen, but it took some of the stress out of the reading.Oxy wasn't the only substance being abused in the book. The apparent capacity for alcohol consumption by coach and others was immense.
I mentioned it elsewhere, but the name "Stoner" could have several meanings here: he's stoned all of the time or the John Williams character is a favorite of Kingsolver's. I loved all of the nick names.
I started this on my Kindle, then life happened (kayaking, reading for other clubs, lost phone replacement, yard/garden). I will be chiming in later when I get back to it!
I finished this evening and really enjoyed the book. I found the David Copperfield framework beautifully done and also noticed more and more details and plot elements as I read. Demon’s voice was very well done. As others have said, I wondered at Kingsolver’s ability to speak as a young boy, then a teen, high school jock, etc. Sadly, she probably knows the down sides of Appalachia too.I also appreciate her lyrical voice when Demon is appreciating or recalling nature from the city. The descriptions of sunrise and sunset were beautiful. I realize it’s been too long since I have read one of her books. Thanks to CR for this.
I've finally finished this! I just read all the comments, and agree with most of them. I ended up enjoying the book quite a bit. At first, I didn't like the writing style, but later realized it likely reflected Demon's ability in that area. And the full first half of the book was one sad thing after another, so it was a relief when that finally turned around.
More frustration when Demon picked Dori, so was kind of glad when that ended.
I got restless with the opioid thing and all the stereotypes of redneck culture, but appreciated Demon's comic strip about it.
I liked his descriptions of the land based type of country living versus wage based city living, and the observation that part of the prejudice is due to not being able to tax much of the living that poor country people live on.
The inclusion of Angus and the ending with her and Demon getting closer did a lot for the book in helping show Demon's growth.
I'd like to give Mrs. Pegget and June some kind of medal for being truly good human beings.
Okay, I'm the last to finish here--I thought it was brilliant! I read David Copperfield first, as it was the only one of Dickens' classics I hadn't read. I would have enjoyed Demon Copperhead on its own very much--it is remarkable how well Kingsolver gets his voice--but how she re-told this classic story was genius. If I had any tiny quibbles, they were that Fast Foward was maybe not menacing enough, or engaged with enough when he was with Emmy, and that maybe Coach toward the end didn't come alive for me. But honestly, these were such minor details. I think Dickens would have been happy to blurb this book, while also chagrined that this community was as devastated by opiate addiction as David Copperfield's community was confined and limited by extreme poverty.
I have just finished Demon Copperhead too (Rachel, you aren't the last to finish!). I found it to be an excellent re-imagining of David Copperfield, but at the same time, a thoroughly engaging story in its own right. Barbara Kingsolver, like Dickens, chooses social injustice as a lens to look through when she selects her characters and plot, and in Demon Copperhead, I think she has worked her magic in that respect. She brings the basic plot and premise of David Copperfield right up to date and it feels very real as a result. I enjoyed finding comparisons between characters of Kingsolver and Dickens: nasty Mr Creakle in Copperfield, and Crickson in Copperhead etc, but I also found the characters in many cases had been given a fresh coat of paint for the changing times - Angus Winfield seems to be a wholly suitable and refreshed version of Dickens' Agnes Wickfield.
Whether a reader is familiar with David Copperfield or not, the story stands perfectly well on its own. The narrative voice is excellent - so good it almost feels autobiographical - and the story of survival against the odds is timeless. I think this makes Kingsolver's achievement even more noteworthy - Dickens wrote in a voice very familiar to him, Kingsolver has to find a voice unfamiliar to her and make it convincing (with the audacious ambition of taking on one of the most famous books around). I think she succeeds in finding a wonderfully authentic 'voice' for Demon. She makes us want him to break free of the weight of injustice bestowed upon him by birth. As Demon says: 'Kids born to the junkie is a junkie', as if his life were mapped out for him from the moment he was conceived. As much as that prophecy becomes reality - much like Shuggie Bain - you never give up hope that he will pull through and become the hero of his own life.
I loved it.
Wonderful insights, Craig! I love coming back here and reading comments about DC. It helps me relive the story.
Craig wrote: "I have just finished Demon Copperhead too (Rachel, you aren't the last to finish!). I found it to be an excellent re-imagining of David Copperfield, but at the same time, a thoroughly engaging stor..." Appreciate your comments on Copperhead, Craig. I would be interested in hearing how Kingsolver came to discover Demon's voice. Like you, I thrilled to the links between the classic and Kingsolver's new classic--it was such fun to read, and so moving. Definitely one of the best books I've read in years.
Lyn, Rachel, and Craig, it was great reading your comments. The discussions never really close here on Constant Reader, so you were not at all "late."I am not a huge Dickens' fan, but I liked your analyses of the similarities between David Copperfield and Kingsolver's book. Dickens' female characters are usually silly or vapid. In this respect, Kingsolver definitely improved on Dickens. Strong females like Damon's grandmother Betsy Woodall, Mrs. Pegott and her daughter June, and Angus were a delight to read about.
The best Dickens book I have read is not one of his novels at all. It is Claire Tomalin's biography: Charles Dickens: A Life. He was an absolutely fascinating character in his own right.
Ann, I really enjoyed reading that biography too.I agree with the posts above about Kingsolver’s ability to find the voice for Demon, and in his various ages and life stages too. For me , that’s one of the mysteries of how a writer creates. The more I have thought about this book, even after finishing it, the more impressed I am with it. Perhaps someday I will read it again though I have several of her other books ahead.
I also liked The Poisonwood Bible and I loved The Lacuna - a five star read for me.
I've read and enjoyed most everything Kingsolver has written. The Poisonwood Bible effected me deeply because I grew up in such a fundamentalist environment where our church supported missionaries to Africa. After her book, I felt like religion did a great wrong interfering with native religions and teaching them to feel guilty about their former way of life.Has anyone read Pigs in Heaven? I think that's her only book I haven't read.
Yes, I did read Poisonwood Bible. I thought it was excellent. That may have been my first of hers…what a great introduction.
Barbara Kingsolver wrote an article for the New York Times about Appalachia. I hope everyone can open this link. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/bo...I have read two of these books, The Dollmaker and Strange as This Weather Has Been. I recommend both of them.
Thanks Gina. I get the NYT but can’t keep up.
I finally got around to this one!
Demon Copperhead – Barbara Kingsolver – 5*****
Kingsolver’s Pulitzer-prize winning novel is a re-telling of Charles Dickens’s David Copperfield set in Appalachia. Like the original, the book explores the effects of poverty, especially on children. Oh, but this was sad and tugged at my heartstrings. Certainly, there were moments, even years-long stretches of time when Demon was well cared for and seemed to have beaten the odds, but it seemed that his entire life was destined for one bad break after another. Yet, despite his faults, Demon stole my heart and I was cheering for him by the end.
LINK to my full review
BC, just today, I'm reviewing my notes for this book for my person-to-person book club tonight. I thought this a wonderful book by Kingsolver, who is one of my favorite authors. This book covers all aspects of poverty, including foster care, drug addiction, child labor, hardscrabble living, hunger, etc. I can't wait to talk about it tonight.
Great article, Tonya - thanks for the link. Coincidentally, I just heard an interview with Kingsolver on public radio this afternoon that included many of these same topics. I came in part-way through while I was driving, so I don't know which show it was on. Now I wish I'd paid more attention to that so I could look for the entire segment online.
Thanks, Tonya and Lynn. Her book was a favorite of mine. How nice to hear that she is supporting a woman's recovery center with the proceeds of her book.There are good people in this world. It's sad that the bad ones get almost all the attention.
I had read the article prior to seeing this mention. Yes it is nice to see book profits put to such a good use. And it does sound like Kingsolver has been careful in her planning follow through to avoid the mistakes made by others who try such charitable causes.
Kingsolver is one of my favorite authors, and The Lacuna is my favorite of her novels, and I think I've read them all. However, Demon Copperhead was one I couldn't finish because it was so depresssing, and the subject matter wasn't something I could deal with at the time. I can see from the reviews that it was excellent, and I may give it another try later.
Scout, I loved The Lacuna, and I've loved most all books that Kingsolver has written. My review follows:Once you begin to read this book, you won't be able to put it down. Harrison Shepherd is a Mexican/American boy in 1930's Mexico. He has no sense of home with his unstable mother and eventually works in the kitchen of Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo. Kahlo becomes his lifelong friend. Later he works as a secretary for Lev Trotsky who is murdered by Stalin. Shepherd moves to Asheville, NC where he is investigated by the FBI for "un-American activities" after becoming a successful novelist. Politics toss Sheperd between Mexico and the US with a plot that turns and twists on the unspeakable breach - the lacuna - between truth and public presumption.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Demon Copperhead (other topics)The Dollmaker (other topics)
Strange as This Weather Has Been (other topics)
The Poisonwood Bible (other topics)
Charles Dickens: A Life (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Claire Tomalin (other topics)Barbara Kingsolver (other topics)
Barbara Kingsolver (other topics)
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/114496...
This is a long book (556 pages) which chronicles the life of a young Appalachian boy legally named Damon Field, who comes to be known as Demon Copperhead due to his red hair and propensity for trouble. Demon has a very sad upbringing as the child of a dead father and a teenage mother who loves him but cannot kick her addictions. He is cruelly abused by his stepfather and, after his mother dies from an overdose, he enters a very broken foster care system. There his situation goes from bad to worse. Like many of the kids in his area, Demon becomes hooked on drugs, specifically opioids. Things seem very bleak for Demon, although he encounters people- mostly women- who help him reach for a better life. The fact that he has a special talent for drawing also gives him something positive to focus on.
For me this was a good old-fashioned novel, the kind that kept me turning the pages. Did you feel the same? Or are you like my friend who quit reading early-on because she found Demon’s repeated ill treatment too depressing.
This novel is being marketed as a modern re-telling of Dickens’ David Copperfield. For those who have read Dickens’ book more recently than I have, do you think this is a valid comparison?
Kingsolver’s novels usually deal with social justice. In this, case some of her targets are the sad state of foster care, the criminal promotion of opioid drugs, and the terrible burdens kids suffer from generational poverty. Do you feel that her messages enhance her story telling or interfere with it?