Beta Reader Group discussion
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This is NOT a book review group
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I’m curious. I wasn’t aware of this rule, and I’m wondering if I’ve broken it. I have been seeking reviews for a soon-to-be-published book, but I’ve also been offering and doing beta reads, and if you ask the people I’ve done them for, I believe they’ll tell you I’ve done a pretty good job. I believe I have some skills to offer. I've been writing fiction for decades and working with agents and editors as well as other writers, so I've learned a lot about the craft. I've even taught writing for publication. I could probably hang up my shingle and charge money for this service. But I don’t want to, and I don’t think indie authors who are just starting out should spend much money up front. There just isn't enough profit in it for most of us to justify some of the fees I’ve heard editors charge. Instead, I believe writers can and should help each other. I’ve been in a critique group for many years, and I’m always surprised when I read a chapter to the group, how much they can see in it that I didn’t see, errors in motivation or physical impossibilities or just places that need trimming or developing.So I think this beta read group is great. Since not all writers are fortunate enough to connect with other writers living close to them, getting beta reads from other writers via the Internet is a terrific idea. I think writers who seek them and then take the time to digest what they've been told and put some effort into revision are going to become much better writers and produce much better books. So I guess I was feeling pretty good about offering beta reads even though right now I’m not looking for one myself. And I’m also not looking for money. Instead, I’ve been asking writers to read my book in exchange and write an honest review. Clearly, no one has to agree to such an exchange. But if this is what you're reacting to, then I'll quit doing it through this group.
I'm pretty new here, so feel free to discount what I say, but I'm guessing this is a problem of terminology, specifically the word "review." I think the Moderator is wanting to not have POST-PUBLICATION (public) reviews, like you see on Amazon as Customer Reviews. Beta reading is different as it's for feedback to the author BEFORE publication.The Moderator can clarify if I've got it wrong.
BTW, I think this is a terrific group. I've only been "reviewing" covers so far, but soon I'll be open to beta reading.
Harald wrote: "I'm pretty new here, so feel free to discount what I say, but I'm guessing this is a problem of terminology, specifically the word "review." I think the Moderator is wanting to not have POST-PUBLIC..."Thanks, Harold, but I think Lena and I are using the word review the same way. In exchange for reading and critiquing a manuscript for someone who is asking for beta reads here, I've been asking that person to read and then post an honest review of my book on Amazon and Goodreads after my book is published the middle of April. Until now I thought that was a reasonable exchange if both parties agreed, and a better deal for the writer than my asking for money.
I think this is a terrific group too. And maybe this type of exchange isn't what Lena is referring to. So Lena, I hope you'll respond.
I think the no-review rule serves to prevent 'abuse' of the beta-reading process. Beta Readers are not, in that role, reviewers. They are trying to catch things that are a little off, whether grammar, spelling, plot inconsistencies, character qualities etc. It is unfair to also expect a review from them. Furthermore, at Beta Reading stage, your book is not really ready for review. It makes perfect sense and the rule is quite sound, IMHO. Most genre groups have 'events' where authors may submit their books to the readers in the group to write reviews and that is the most appropriate way to get them done on GR. Although you are certainly free to offer them on, say, your author page as well.
Mod
I agree, beta reading is a private service for the author. Reviewing is a public service for the reader.
Sorry for the confusion, but can someone please clarify? Is the issue that this group is for authors seeking beta reads, but some authors are also posting here seeking reviews? Or is the issue that some beta readers are asking for full-on Amazon reviews as payment for their beta-reading services?
I can understand the issue with the first situation. There are many groups for authors of published works to seek reviews.
But I don't see the issue of the second situation. There are distinct sub-groups of this group for beta read swaps and for critique partner swaps. It's okay to receive a beta read or a critique in exchange for doing a beta read, but it's not okay to ask for an unbiased review of a published (or soon-to-be released) book in exchange for doing a beta read?
Mod
So in summation, Lena would prefer that author seeking reviews for their published books stop posting their requests in this group, which caters very specifically to finding beta readers for authors. And Lin, you're saying that if an author offers to do a beta read in exchange for a review, the group has no explicit rules against that. It's strictly between the two authors. Is that correct?
Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up. :)Kathy
Thank you, Lin, for clarifying this. I've deleted my post where I offered beta reads in exchange for a review even though I may occasionally approach writers who have asked for beta reads and offer that kind of exchange. I agree that exchanges are risky, but in the case of exchanging a beta read for a review, I feel the risk is borne almost entirely by the person asking for the review. If someone decides to give you a one star review, that can really hurt your sales. If someone gives you a harsh beta read, well, that hurts too, but you should be able to learn from whatever in it rings true and move on past the rest.Btw, I've found most people on Goodreads are fairly critical reader and would be embarrassed to praise a book that didn't meet their standards.
Right now I'm fully booked with beta reads, but I wish everyone using this group all the best.
how do you post the manuscript to beta read?
Mod
I hope this answers your questions.
My question is,Does betas have to sign something before trusting them to read someones book to ensure that what you send dont get tossed to a pirating site or whatever is out there. I have beta read once before by an author friend but she had me sign something before hand. Is that the case here or what?
There's no general rule, but of course you can ask the beta-reader to sign such a contract. I've done some beta-reading and I never had to sign anything.
Lenna wrote: "My question is,Does betas have to sign something before trusting them to read someones book to ensure that what you send dont get tossed to a pirating site or whatever is out there. I have beta r..."
No, in fact I've never heard of that being done in my life. I've had many betas for my debut novel and I've beta read for other people's work. Piracy is not an issue with books because it's super easy to prove who the real owner is with digital documents and such. Also if you're worried about that, then copyright your work through Congress. It takes about a day and costs $30. After that you have legal rights to your own work and 100% legal proof that it's undeniably yours and no one else can reproduce it.
Or for free, you can simply write in a copyright statement under "Public Domain Laws," which is the law that states art or creative work belongs legally to the creator, always.
I have signed non-disclosure contracts for some of the well established authors I beta read for (it is sometimes required by their publishing companies or just part of their general security measures) and for others there has been no contract. It is whatever you feel more comfortable with BUT if you have doubts about a beta's integrity, whether they sign a contract or not, then you shouldn't use them.
Thank you for all the info in this topic
Lena wrote: "This group is for the pre-publication stage. I'm pretty lax about letting people post services or requests for anything that happens before publication--editing, beta reading, alpha reading, chapter swaps, cover design, blurbs etc.."What is the difference between a "beta" reader and an "alpha" reader?
Mod
A beta reader will read at a much later stage, theoretically when you've done all you can. A beta reader used to be a test reader on a finished article, but these days it's more like the final stage before a paid editor gets involved. A beta reader is a reader, and will read and give feedback on the finished story from a reader's perspective, in contrast to the alpha reader who's giving feedback from a writer's or editor's perspective. For a beta read, the manuscript should be as polished as you can make it, and should be fairly straightforward from the reader's perspective.
In my experience, many that have been sent to me for beta reads turn out to need alpha read instead, which is why I first started charging, and at the moment have stopped offering full beta reads unless I'm already confident in the writer's abilities, as it was taking up far too much of my time even to justify the small charge.
A critique partner is someone who offers an alpha read service to you in exchange for you doing the same with them. Works well as long as you're both compatible. Beware of getting someone who will swallow up all the feedback you give them, and then give you very little in return, or someone who has set ideas on how something should be written, and will impose their writing style or structure on your work.
In the same way, a beta reader should not be proofreading, editing or rewording. They should only be giving feedback on what works and what doesn't work.
The alpha line is a little shakier, but again beware of those seeking to reshape your work into what they would write. This is why editing is such a specialised service - the job of editing someone else's work into something better, without changing the writer's voice, is something that you don't pick up overnight or just because you reckon you edited your own work so should be able to do it for others and charge for it.
Thank you, Lin. Your explanation was very informative and educational.
Hi"Sometimes writers get so involved in the plot they can't see the wood for the trees."
The plot is the wood and the typos are the trees. You should probably rephrase it, the other way around. :)
Hi.I'm looking for beta readers for the first three chapters of my science fiction novel.
I'm new to goodreads. Jenna Moreci on YouTube recommends beta readers, so here I am. Here's my synopsis:
5,000 years ago, an alien research vessel crash landed on Earth while trying to obtain fuel from a solar flare from the Sun. Our solar system was stuck in a time dilation bubble. Very little time has passed outside the solar system. And now, that bubble has burst. Now, an intergalactic war threatens to spill onto Earth and its fledgling colonies.
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This group is for the pre-publication stage. I'm pretty lax about letting people post services or requests for anything that happens before publication--editing, beta reading, alpha reading, chapter swaps, cover design, blurbs etc. There are dozens of review groups on Goodreads. Let's keep this group purely focused on the stages before publication.
I have also added this to the group rules. I have had to delete posts asking for reviews more and more lately. Please follow the rules of the group.
Thank you!