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Go Down, Moses
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Initial Impressions: Go Down, Moses, by William Faulkner – May 2023
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message 51:
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Cheryl Carroll
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May 15, 2023 08:34AM
Okay book club buds - I am still recovering from work this week, but with this wine talk wanted to share a link to Faulkner's daughter and grandson's vineyard. It is named Knight's Gambit, but my understanding from a WF g-grandaughter is that the focus is intentionally not on Bill.
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Cheryl Carroll wrote: "but my understanding from a WF g-grandaughter is that the focus is intentionally not on Bill"😆 .. and that's as it should be
Five miles from our house, we are almost surrounded by vineyards, excepting one that particularly focuses on wines in the French tradition and one in the Italian, our area is more famous for its Chardonnay, Pinot Noir 😍, and Syrah wines.
And let me just say that no way can I combine drinking wine with reading Faulkner. Or, maybe it would help?
From As Faulkner Lay Drinkinghttps://www.thedailybeast.com/as-faul...
There is no such thing as bad whiskey,” Faulkner once reasoned...
You see, I usually write at night. I always keep my whiskey within reach; so many ideas that I can’t remember in the morning pop into my head.
To some of his critics (not to mention his rivals), this method was a double-edged sword. During an interview with Hemingway when he was asked if he made himself a pitcher of Martinis before each writing session, Hemingway snorted, “Jeezus Christ! Have you ever heard of anyone who drank while he worked? You’re thinking of Faulkner. He does sometimes—and I can tell right in the middle of a page when he’s had his first one.”
I love that, Cathrine. Laughed aloud at Hemingway.
Cathrine ☯️ wrote: "From As Faulkner Lay Drinkinghttps://www.thedailybeast.com/as-faul...
There is no such thing as bad whiskey,” Faulkner once reasoned."
Yeah. But there was an incident, when Faulkner was on one of his infamous benders, and his daughter tried to get him to stop drinking. He looked at her, (presumably) bleary eyed, and (presumably) slurred, "Nobody remembers Shakespear's child." This from the man who wrote The Bear.
Another incident that proves the artist is often the better human than the person is.
(Also applies to Hemingway.)
Sam wrote: "I am starting my reread of The Bear today. I also had a lot of reads in May to finish before devoting my time to this. I plan a chapter a day until chapter four when I will take two days each to co..."Your last sentence reminds me of this Faulkner quote:
“Interviewer: Some people say they can't understand your writing, even after they read it two or three times. What approach would you suggest for them?
Faulkner: Read it four times.”
Cathrine ☯️ wrote: "Five miles from our house, we are almost surrounded by vineyards, excepting one that particularly focuses on wines in the French tradition and one in the Italian, our area is more famous for its Ch..."If you're in America, based on those varietals I'm inclined to think that you live in OR, WA, or VA.
Regarding the vineyard that Jill Faulkner Summers son Paul started -- I agree that the focus can be on whatever he wants it to be, but naming it Knight's Gambit does certainly draw the attention of WF fans.
Cathrine also wrote: And let me just say that no way can I combine drinking wine with reading Faulkner.
Or, maybe it would help?
😁😁😁
Rough week at work so I started The Bear with a beer which lead to another. Only 26 pages in so far. Not much for wine but will have an Ole Smoky Salty Caramel Whiskey, made in Tennessee, to toast Faulkner before I finish the book. Loved As I Lay Drinking. Writing down all of your suggestions to get to know & understand the man. Thank you all!
Sam and Cathrine-- I think that we might all three be on the same schedule for The Bear. I just covered sections 1 and 2. Randall's great questions colored this reread.
Some of Randall's questions from Message 38 on May 13:
(view spoiler)
@Sam - I don't suppose you recall if you were first introduced to the shorter, Saturday Evening Post version or the longer short story / novella in GDM? @Cathrine - There are some bits of humor that I missed before listening to Merton 😏. (I forgive myself for missing these moments, bc outside of sniffing out the best deals in the grocery store, I did not grow up hunting animals.) The humor- Sam notes that Old Ben is on a recon mission (pg 198) and is so confident in his experience, that he is "Not even running. Walking." 😂
Approaching this read, I feel like Faulkner is presenting a hero's story in retrospect. The retrospect thought gives me, personally, patience for all the build up because there is *so much* build up! Like Virginia Woolf and Cormac McCarthy, they only make sense after the re-reads, but the re-reads are so individually enlightening that most of us fall in love with the writing as a whole.
From an interview with Dr. Ahmed Honeini (UK Faulkner scholar):
Faulkner was aware of how difficult his works could be, saying to Jean Stein in his Paris Review interview with her that one should read each of his novels four times to understand them. Faulkner was, obviously, being playful and humorous here, but there is an element of truth in his advice – works like The Sound and the Fury demand a second reading, especially so you can see how Faulkner pulls off the story of the fall of the Compsons. Imagine Faulkner as a magician: the first time you see him perform, you have no idea how he managed to pull one over on you. When you revisit his work, and you can see how he lures you in, your admiration for him does not diminish. In fact, for many of his readers, the second and subsequent readings of his works are much more rewarding, because you’re not preoccupied with uncovering or deciphering the meaning behind his work – you know what he is up to, so you can savor the profundity of his content and the gorgeousness of his prose, instead of being preoccupied with the technique.
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/will...
Lexy wrote: "Rough week at work so I started The Bear with a beer which lead to another. Only 26 pages in so far. Not much for wine but will have an Ole Smoky Salty Caramel Whiskey, made in Tennessee, to toast ..."You're in very good company, Lexy. That moment when we finally get to sit down with our books = 👌🧡📚 Perfection.
Cheryl Carroll wrote: "@Sam - I don't suppose you recall if you were first introduced to the shorter, Saturday Evening Post version or the longer short story / novella in GDM? @Cathrine - There are some bits of humor t..."
It was an antholgized version of the longer text. Trouble is I can't remember the anthology and with time my memory might be confusing a general literature anthology with the Vintage edition of Three Famous Short Novels: Spotted Horses / Old Man / The Bear. I remeber enjoying the story though not understanding a quarter of it and the class was essentially dumbfounded as the teacher's lectures added to the confusion rather than enlightening us.
Nor can I remember the exact grade. I remember April Morning: A Novel by Howard Fast; The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane;
The Bear; The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain; The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger; and A Separate Peace by John Knowles and I think that list reflects the order in which we read them from 7-12. In the later grades we had two and one of those was The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald . I think the other was The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne.
Hi, book club buds! Great News - my one and only child has graduated high school!!! Not So Great News - I am very behind on commenting on this novel, which I nominated for the group. I will make up for it within the next few days, I promise!
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Congratulations to you both, Cheryl.
Thank you Dave, Diane, and Sara! He and I have had a very uneasy road to travel, so this milestone is especially meaningful.
Do you all think that respect for elders is held in higher importance to southerners? For instance - In "The Bear" I am struck by the "deference to elders" theme. It's seen in more than just the Ike / Sam relationship. McCaslin (Cass) allows himself to be overruled by Major de Spain and General Compson. Cass is Ike's cousin, but more like his father. If Faulkner had used one or the other older men for each situation, we could say that Cass's deference was to that particular older man. But it's to all of his elders - Sam, de Spain, and Compson - that Cass listens to.
Perhaps it's WF's way of stating that age / wisdom in humanity is preceded by the age / wisdom of the natural world? From Section 4:
...old Carothers McCaslin, knowing better...[raised] his children, his descendants and heirs, to believe the land was his to hold and bequeath...
...not even a fragment of it [the land] had been his to relinquish or sell pgs 254 - 255, MLA edition
Also in this reread, I'm noticing the repetition of the word "relinquish".
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Cheryl Carroll wrote: "Do you all think that respect for elders is held in higher importance to southerners? For instance - In "The Bear" I am struck by the "deference to elders" theme. It's seen in more than just the ..."
I agree with Diane. I see stratification in the novel but it echoed what I saw growing up. Not only was there a hierarchal deference by age, but also by socioeconomic standing, education, and in relation to task at hand, to those with necessary skills. Sam Fathers would have a higher standing for both his age and woodcraft; Major de Spain and General Compson would be defined higher for their still stated military rank, their land ownership, family heritage and wealth, but also their role as employers to the servants. And I see this all as defined by the time more rigidly than in present.
Randall wrote: "Boon has to be the least likely person to kill Old Ben. So why does Faulkner choose him? And why does Faulkner end the story on a tragic/comic note, with Boon desperately trying to fix his gun so he can shoot at (and likely miss) a bunch of squirrels in a tree?"I think Randall's questions about Boon are worth more mention.
First, how did everyone read that Boon's gun was in pieces? I considered it was because of the gun exploding due to either an overcharged shell or an unextracted shell, Both of these would reflect back on sloppy, unprofession handling either of the shell or weapon (shells would be loaded and reloaded at home, not store-bought and dirty weapons were considered the cause of most shells not extracting) This seems to fit with Faulkner's overall picture of Boon.
I see Faulkner having an almost love/hate relationship with the character. Boon has his faults and Faulkner does not seem sympathetic to those faults but then he puts Boon into a heroic place in the novel. In a lot of ways Boon is the obverse of Lucas Beauchamp. But like Randall I wonder what Faulkner felt about Boon. Does he see Boon as an inevitable future of the South or of humankind? Is he the modern hero? Is he Faulkner's Falstaff, a lovable character, but not one to be emulated? He sure caught my attention this read.
I'm still reading "The Bear," but it seems like the death of Old Ben represents the destruction of Nature. Sam and Lion, both who are also closely tied to Nature, die soon after Old Ben's death. So while it did take bravery to kill Old Ben, maybe Faulkner is saying that it's bravery without thinking about the consequences. So he chose a simple-minded person like Boon to do this.
Amen to your comment, Diane!
Sam wrote: "I think Randall's questions about Boon are worth more mention."I no longer have a copy of my book and can't reread that section, and perhaps putting my own interpretation on that dismantled gun but I saw it as wild nature/life as they knew it coming undone and Boon representing the inability of men to put themselves in check or position to halt the destruction.
To my simple mind, he was the one to kill the bear for love of the dog, not a hero. I really love dogs so I could see myself acting in a similar manner, and have in fact put myself in danger to protect my own. Although, against a bear I would no doubt be a complete coward and run.
(We had a bear in our local Target parking lot this past week. It climbed a tree and was later sedated and relocated. That is not anywhere near a common sight around here).
Totally agree with Diane's comment about elder respect.
I found Go Down, Moses to be a challenging read because there are so many characters, and they are not introduced in a linear sense of time. However, it's an impressive book once you understand all the relationships. I especially enjoyed "The Bear," but I had to skim over parts of Chapter 4 of that story. Isaac's coming of age and his relationship with his mentor, Sam, were wonderfully written.
Man oh man, these comments are so fantastically thoughtful! I'm still catching up but was wondering #1 - as long as I link to this webpage and give proper credit to the commenter, is there any objection to me quoting some of these thoughts and questions with the private WFBC on fb? (later this week, bc again I am still behind on book club tasks)
#2 - my favorite Memorial Day post on that page has become about the Faulkner stories "Two Soldiers" and "Shall Not Perish". Major de Spain features prominently in that second story. His inclusion takes me back to the "elder respect" issue previously mentioned. But in "Shall Not Perish", the mother (the feminine) is the strength that de Spain, her husband, and son look to.
From "Shall Not Perish" -
"All men are capable of shame," Mother said. "Just as all men are capable of courage and honor and sacrifice. And grief too. It will take time, but they will learn it. It will take more grief than yours and mine, and there will be more. But it will be enough. ...
"Wait," said Major de Spain. He had turned again, facing us. "What you and his father gave him. You must know what that was."
"I know it came a long way" Mother said. "So it must have been strong to have lasted through all of us. It must have been all right for him to be willing to die for it after that long time and coming that far. ..."
Regarding "Two Soldiers" -- there is a 40 minute film adaptation on YT, from 2003. Ron Perlman is probably the most famous actor in the film. https://youtu.be/-T8YFnRhFMU
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@Sam - thank you for those reflections on your past reading assignments. I believe that I was tasked with all of those as well. @Connie G - Section 4 of "The Bear" is a highlight in Faulkner's experiment (and ultimate command of!) narrative technique. We, as readers, are pushed from a kind of breathless-hunting-triumph- climax into SoC recollection from Ike, five years after the event. I can't state this with total confidence, but I don't believe this had ever been done before. The jumps between Ike and Cass are just so brilliant!
@Diane - thank you! This, the WFBC, and the Welty club are my absolute faves so I tend to mention them all to each other in the other groups! :-)@Cathrine, Sam, and Randall- Boon is paired up with Lion in section two and / or three. Because of that pairing, for me, it makes Boon's defense of Lion and killing of Old Ben all the more reasonable. Boon's passion for Lion is commendable... I think most of us have had an animal pet that we'd do anything for. Lion was like a person to Boon. He was a terrible shot, but came through physically with his knife when his friend's life mission depended on it.
With his feists. We have one named Amie. Champion rat killer.
@Cathrine - Did it strike you that the first dog with the courage to challenge Old Ben was a female? I've wondered about that often, especially as I've read more of Faulkner's biographical info.
Love the picture. Great thought, Cheryl. I did not catch that, but it is most significant, when you consider Faulkner. That is what is so fascinating about reading him again and again, there are so many subtle nuances that have meaning. He was a very, very careful writer.
On the Southern Literary Trail
Books mentioned in this topic
Go Down, Moses (other topics)The Bear (other topics)
April Morning (other topics)
The Red Badge of Courage (other topics)
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Howard Fast (other topics)Stephen Crane (other topics)
Mark Twain (other topics)
J.D. Salinger (other topics)
John Knowles (other topics)
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