Group Reads Discussions 2023: "A Half-Built Garden" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

Come share all your thoughts on this modern tale of first contact!

A few questions to get us started:

1. What did you think of the way geopolitics were handled?
2. What did you think of the interspecies relationships?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

If you asked me how the European Union would handle a first contact scenario with aliens it wouldn't be much different to A Half-Built Garden. I'm actually surprised this was written by an USian. It came across as very bureaucratic and polite for a story about aliens wanting to save humanity from itself. Was the lack of conflict and dramatic reactions an issue for anyone else?

I sometimes bemoan genre fiction for having characters that are overly dramatic and unthinking, but this story of mostly considerate individuals didn't really interest me until such a character was introduced. I'm still arguing with myself about it.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I haven’t finished it yet, but I am irked by the narrator in a couple of ways. She comes across as someone who is a militant ecologically and religiously rigid. She starves rather than taking a risk on eating non-kosher food, and she is very rigid in maintaining a dress code she regards as more morally correct than everyone else outside of her watershed - even though she is supposedly on a diplomatic mission involving many different viewpoints and three sapient species, two of whom are not human.

I haven’t finished reading, maybe she figures out keeping an open mind might mean less personal anguish and emotional cost at trying to maintain her rigid standards for dress and food foolishly.

I worked at an environmental engineering firm. They wanted to help air polluting companies reduce their polluting of the air. Some firms were being forced to clean up their emissions by government order.

One of the people I worked with was militantly environmental, which I didn’t know until this incident. She hated that I drove in a car to work. So I checked out buses - I would have had to take three buses, resulting in almost 3 hours travel one way. I told her I would take transit, in fact, always had taken transit until we bought a house several cities away from my job site. The buses only worked during main working hours as well. So I told her regretfully, I couldn’t use public transit or ridesharing, for the matter. She was REALLY upset with me. After that, I thought of her as being a maniac. She was in her mid-twenties. I was in my mid-forties. Although I worked out, walked, even if I could hack the six hours of transit every day, I would have had a time of it physically in my forties. As it was, sitting in a car for 90 minutes one way gave me a back problem which has been with me ever since. I understand and agree the destruction of the environment is an EXTREMELY important issue, but militant martinets of any tribe give me a pain in the backside. Literally.

[BJ]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I haven’t finished it yet, but I am irked by the narrator in a couple of ways. She comes across as someone who is a militant ecologically and religiously rigid. She starves rather than taking a ris..."

I was also a little irked by the narrator, and by the watershed society in general at times. I do think it is at least a little intentional, though. There are a number of points where Judy compares herself to Cytosine in a way that I read as an oblique admission that she can be stubborn and rigid. Also, this is very much a first-person point of view novel from a flawed and biased narrator. How positively a character is portrayed is directly related to how good their relationship is to the narrator. Rhamnetin and Carol practically come off as saints. The other couple in their family come off as flawed but promising, basically, and as Judy strengthens her relationship with them, they look more and more heroic and capable. We get a mixed perspective on Adrien when they are meeting Judy half way. By the end, Adrien has abandoned Judy's cause--and is portrayed as callous and soulless. Cytosine goes the other way--portrayed as deeply flawed when she is opposed to Judy, and a model of courage and good sense when she comes around to Judy's position and joins her family. It's definitely a pattern!

[Netanella]

Well, folks, I'm reporting here that I'm DNFing this bad boy at about 54% in. I am just simply and completely unattached to this book. I think the only character that I really like is Dori, and she's an infant! I was attracted to this book because I've enjoyed the author's Innsmouth series. This SF novel, though, is just not hitting me with any vibes whatsoever.

On the plus side, I finally watched the movie "Arrival" tonight, which as you all know is based on the amazing story by Ted Chiang. Now that is a first contact story. This group introduced me to the awesomeness of stories that Chiang can produce in the short form. I cried after I read the story, I cried after the movie ended. I read because I want to feel something from the narrative. Reading this book is as exciting as reading the back of a package of eco-friendly toilet paper. And then I decided that life is just to short . . . well, you know how the sentence ends!

I'll catch up with the group when we get to The Marrow Thieves.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

BJ wrote: "aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I haven’t finished it yet, but I am irked by the narrator in a couple of ways. She comes across as someone who is a militant ecologically and religiously rigid. S..."

Rhamnetin was my favorite, actually.

[BJ]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Rhamnetin was my favorite, actually. "

Mine too! But that doesn't mean the narrator wasn't biased towards him :)

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I really liked the beginning of this, but around 40% I think the ambitious nature of the concept got out of hand and never recovered.

There were lots of cool concepts that were important -- gender, family, religion (especially the Jewish "wandering tribe" story), capitalism, nationalism, communism... but I think some of the threads the author was pulling snarled. It's a messy world, and I agree with Ryan that I kind of think that something like this would happen in a first contact scenario, but the dithering, the scolding, the inadequacy of anyone to the task and the arrogance to proceed anyways seemed to go too far.

Then too the corporations started complex and interesting and ended moustache twirly. I never quite understood what we were trying to see with them.

I found the plot points to be a bit jarring as well. Finding out about the hackbot, the aliex sex, the kidnapping x2...it all felt very convenient to the author rather than appropriate to the story.

What I liked about the first almost half was that it was complicated, but we saw humans working through things in interesting ways. I liked the idea of modern day water keepers, so to speak, and science being an important way to gauge all sorts of happenings. And I did like that we saw a very alien way of life (even if the idea of massive spider things is my nightmare!) with different gender roles than we see here, not just reversed, but much more complex.

[Oleksandr]

Allison wrote: "Then too the corporations started complex and interesting and ended moustache twirly. I never quite understood what we were trying to see with them."

True... the ideas are very interesting but instead of maybe sticking with a few and developing them, they are simplified.

For example, a great idea about dead-end of planetary civilization, why it is 0-1 decision? Why either all leave or all stay?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yea!! That really bothered me. The idea that it needed to be unanimous because people making a different decision than you might result in them doing things you dislike is...kind of antithetical to the idea of personal autonomy.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Oleksandr wrote: "Allison wrote: "Then too the corporations started complex and interesting and ended moustache twirly. I never quite understood what we were trying to see with them."

True... the ideas are very int..."

Perhaps it was to make the point no matter what the solution, it will mean abandonment of personal autonomy on some level. The author offered the solution of hippie-style or religious farming communes, or the isolating of tech on islands or walled-in governing cities or leaving the planet. Every community on earth no longer gave inhabitants personal autonomy. Even so, getting rid of the pollution would take centuries the way the people of earth were doing it. The aliens had a sure-fire solution that would work immediately to stop the polluting. I can see why the aliens were determined to do it their way, especially after finding two other civilizations which had totally self-destructed. To the aliens, they were saving people despite themselves in the same way the US government tries to save people in flooded homes who refuse to leave because they aren’t allowed to take their pets. I think China doesn’t even bother asking if a person wants to move away from their home or not. They simply send in the soldiers and move the people out.

Fifty years ago personal autonomy meant people who smoked or ate in their cars threw the butts and packaging out the window while driving.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

An interesting, nuanced, take, April!

[BJ]

Oleksandr wrote: "For example, a great idea about dead-end of planetary civilization, why it is 0-1 decision? Why either all leave or all stay?"

I struggled with this a little too - it seemed like the answer was so obvious. But in the end, I actually think this is a place where the novel maps pretty well onto how colonial processes have often worked for humans. I definitely agree with April's analysis just above. The desire of the Ringers to "rescue" Earth, and the moral imperative to make sure that not a single human died unnecessarily does actually make sense. Think about all the people who must have died in the disastrous floods in Mississippi towards the end of the book. Judy glosses over it, because it doesn't support her point of view, but from a Ringer perspective, all those families - children certainly among them - died for no reason. If they had been taken into a habitat, they would have lived. That the project of repairing the earth is actually worth people dying for is really hard for them to accept. It's hard for Judy to accept too. She doesn't dwell on all the people who will die who would have lived if they had taken the Ringer offer. But ultimately she feels that the project she's devoted her life to is worth the sacrifice... and she's willing to take the risk herself and for her family, as well.

[BJ]

That said, the watershed networks *definitely* have trouble seeing the line between the things they do that are totally necessary from an environmental perspective, and the things they do because that is their culture, and forcing people from one culture to conform to another culture on the grounds that it is the only "right" way is also a common kind of colonial violence. Which is part of what makes the book so morally complex. In my opinion, the novel is significantly more morally complex than Judy's own perspective is.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

BJ wrote: "That said, the watershed networks *definitely* have trouble seeing the line between the things they do that are totally necessary from an environmental perspective, and the things they do because t..."

Agree.

[Oleksandr]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "The aliens had a sure-fire solution that would work immediately to stop the polluting."


interesting thoughts! However, aliens have only themselves (plains people) plus just a sample of one (woods people) that it worked. Their sureness is a self-delusion, dangerous for all participants

[Oleksandr]

BJ wrote: "the watershed networks *definitely* have trouble seeing the line between the things they do that are totally necessary from an environmental perspective, and the things they do because that is their culture, and forcing people from one culture to conform to another culture on the grounds that it is the only "right" way."

Agreed! Even such things that I support in general, like gender badges - were they really that necessary at the first meeting with an alien culture, where you don't even know if genders as we understand them now exist.

Another irksome stuff dor me is interplanetary travel time - on one hand, Earth is the first planet they got to not too late, and they saw a lot of really old TV stuff - but when they travel to a ringers' habitat it is merely days... it seems that the ringers don't explore the galaxy, but sit, waiting to get a signal and then rush to rescue

Aliens having no problem with either taste or ingredients of our foods seems implausible - after all say dogs can die from eating chocolate, cats react on catnip in the opposing way humans do, etc.

Babies on meetings - it is mimimi, but my small experience of babysitting says you cannot get distracted by other things, you have to keep an eye on kids... at least I cannot. And playing different species is great, but say it is unwise to leave kids with young apes, the latter can play too rough and kids of all species cannot be sure of own powers - they are just learning

[Oleksandr]

My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Ryan wrote: "If you asked me how the European Union would handle a first contact scenario with aliens it wouldn't be much different to A Half-Built Garden. I'm actually surprised this was written by an USian. I..."

Everyone was very unnaturally polite with everyone in the commune and the aliens, I agree, very pointedly. Only later were some characters confrontational. But I think it was because of who was telling the story. She did not seem to like too much excitement or change or breaks in her routines, generally.

[Oleksandr]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "She did not seem to like too much excitement or change or breaks in her routines, generally.."

It seemed so. However, there is a question of Dori. I apologize if I got that wrong, but Carol and Judy are both biologically female, but they managed to make a baby before they found where to live and the system connected them to another couple. This I guess questions her adherence to living by the book, which routine implied

[Michael]

Browsed some of the reactions everyone had & I feel better about not having read this. What I mean is: I read 5% and decided: nuh-uh. It was so tonally off. Seemed like the author wanted to write a feel good story about a blended family dynamic and oh yeah aliens all life on Earth at stake but the baby is super cute!

[BJ]

Michael wrote: "Browsed some of the reactions everyone had & I feel better about not having read this. What I mean is: I read 5% and decided: nuh-uh. It was so tonally off. Seemed like the author wanted to write a..."

lol this is so accurate. Like, I really enjoyed the book, personally... but that is exactly what the author wanted to do. The tone is all over the place. Honestly, I sort of classed it as a plus... I enjoyed how weirdly ambiguous so much of the world building and characterization felt!

[BJ]

Oleksandr wrote: "BJ wrote: "the watershed networks *definitely* have trouble seeing the line between the things they do that are totally necessary from an environmental perspective, and the things they do because t..."

Yea, some of these things bothered me too. Especially the food thing. Like, really, they just happen to also love human deserts. I guess it was kind of explained through the genetic engineering they did before arriving, but it still felt contrived to me!

[Oleksandr]

BJ wrote: " I guess it was kind of explained through the genetic engineering they did before arriving, but it still felt contrived to me!"

They were able to watch the Earth's movies, but how could they have prepared not only to consume Earth's food but enjoy it? After all, I guess everyone has the food we don't like - and we are all [I hope] humans...

[BJ]

Oleksandr wrote: "BJ wrote: " I guess it was kind of explained through the genetic engineering they did before arriving, but it still felt contrived to me!"

They were able to watch the Earth's movies, but how could..."

Ha, that's a good point!

[Georgann]

I liked this book, but found it moved very slowly, and several of the concepts were quite difficult and challenging to wrap my brain around. Not all that unusual in sci fi, however! I liked our MC's. It did offer hope for the future, and that was one of the author's stated goals, so thank you for that. I agree with so much of the thoughtful remarks here, especially what BJ said about the biases of the narrator, which is helpful to see now in retrospect.

[Oleksandr]

And am I the only one here, who thinks that having infants/kids during important discussions isn't always a great idea?

[BJ]

Oleksandr wrote: "And am I the only one here, who thinks that having infants/kids during important discussions isn't always a great idea?"

I loved the idea that the Ringers think it is a great idea! I found it totally plausible as an alien norm. I think it should probably have given the humans in the story a good deal more trouble and exasperation than it did, though (which I think is your point, too!)

[Oleksandr]

BJ wrote: "I loved the idea that the Ringers think it is a great idea! I found it totally plausible as an alien norm. "

I liked it as an unusual idea - I love SF for unusual ideas after all! However, bearing in mind that even mammals routinely kill young of their own species [e.g. lions, chimpanzees] and even own offspring [e.g. swines] I'd think twice before meeting a truly foreign life form

[WTEK]

I actually really liked this book. I liked the way the author stretched parts of our reality into the near future and how that all turned out. It also helped that I live in the Chesapeake watershed and used to live down near where it took place.

I do agree that at the end it got a little messy. I did want to see Asterion turn out not so evil. At the start of their interaction with the watershed it seemed like they might have modified the way they worked and that it was just prejudice on Judy's behalf that made them seem so evil. I think that might have been a more nuanced take on the whole thing rather than "I'm so evil I destroyed your network AND convinced the aliens to steal your baby." I was actually really interested in their culture and it would have been fun if at least one of the watershedders had tried out the gender game. If Dinar freelanced with them, why didn't she have more of an understanding of the culture?

I did like the way gender roles was such a huge background issue in the story. It was interesting to see how each culture had pluses and minuses as to how they treated it. Ultimately though, I feel like in a first contact scenario you would have to at least explain the biology of procreation and how gender works in your world in order for the aliens to understand your culture. And vice versa. Since the biologies would be drastically different it isn't as rude as asking a trans woman what is in her underwear. I get that it can be very disenfranchising in our world to do so, but in this scenario it is not bridging the understanding gap to keep the whole concept of gender a personal secret. I know they did that with Carol so she could have a "big reveal" at the end to have an effect during the baby stealing trial. But it felt like they were purposly keeping the aliens from understanding their society. Just like how they felt by the way the corporates would hide their "true selves."

All in all though, I enjoyed seeing this way of life and that maybe we could reverse the damages we've already caused. Being able to convince an alien society to give us the chance to grow up in our own way in tandem with them was also a refreshing change. SO often it's so black and white with one side being right and the other being wrong. It was nice to have such nuance (even if Asterion lost all moral nuance at the end.)