Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Policies & Practices
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Clarification of policy on shorts [open for feedback until 17th August]
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I am not a librarian, just a random confused user. Could you please clarify when an online published work (short story or novel) is valid?I understand that it must be published separately (not magasine or anthology), it must be completed, it must not be behind some wall like mailing list,...
This is my understanding from “Valid Book Records article” and “Non-Book Items article”. But there is some other hidden criterion?
1) Please clarify in the manual.
2) Please, please do not delete book records. This tread says they should be marked “Invalid”
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
BUT it only deals with “invalid shorts which are part of a greater anthology.“
I really wish you could allow short stories on Goodreads. As a user I want to be able to post links to stories and recommend them to other users. I want to keep track of what I have read so I can find them again many years into the future. Why do Goodreads want to prevent that? I dot not see the benefit of that.
I understand wanting to promote the anthology over the single story. I am talking about stories that are published separately.
Jaclyn wrote: "Hi allStarting this thread to discuss refining the rules regarding shorts in the catalog, continuing from this thread.
My current suggestions for updates to the Valid Book Records article:
shor..."
There seems to be a bug on this thread (which may be why there is only one reply)
Cool. I can reply by answering Jaclyn.
Third time.
Could short stories published on sites like this
be eligible? If they already are could that be clarified in the manual.
Short stories published on a literary website, maybe?
Edit: It looks like linking to a website is the problem. This will make discussion difficult. My example is the eastoftheweb website which has been around for a very long time.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "https://www.eastoftheweb.com/"Thanks Elizabeth. I was able to add it on a separate post, deleted it & still can't add it to my post! The original problem was that I missed the h from http, but I don't know why it still won't let me add it.
Edit: & my first two posts disappeared. A couple of other LG members have said the same thing has happened to them & one of them has reported this to support.
J_BlueFlower wrote: "I am not a librarian, just a random confused user. Could you please clarify when an online published work (short story or novel) is valid?"This is clarified above. For example, short stories published online as part of a magazine should not be entered. In most instances, unless the author (usually) publishes a story on her/his website for free use, the story wouldn't qualify for inclusion in the Goodreads catalogue.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Edit: & my first two posts disappeared."This hasn't happened to me, but members of my group have reported having similar problems. It is very intermittent. (Very is even a slight exaggeration, I think. It has been happening, but nothing specific to say "this is the reason" and not often enough to be able to say Tuesdays at 4pm, for example.)
Question: LeVar Burton has a Podcast where he reads short stories, would those be able to be included as short stories in GoodReads, regardless of whether they are published in print only in an anthology? They aren’t for purchase, they are free and while the story is published, it’s in an audio format from the podcast. Also, if GRL MUST move a review to an anthology, can the reviewer be given the curtesy of an alert, so we can note on the review that the review is only for one story in the anthology and not the whole thing? That would also be helpful when the initial short story review didn’t include the author or title of the story, so when the review under the anthology is viewed, the specific story is known and not a mystery.
Thank you for your consideration.
Jen wrote: "Question: LeVar Burton has a Podcast where he reads short stories, would those be able to be included as short stories in GoodReads, regardless of whether they are published in print only in an ant..."Hi Jen
How do you envisage an alert working? Would it be a checkbox that librarians & staff enter?
I think now many records will just be marked invalid so reviewers will still have their review.
& hopefully with only GR Librarians, GR authors & staff able to create book records, hopefully there will be less invalid records created.
This has happened to me so many time. Suddenly you have a review with no indication of what you read. Yes, it was some story in the anthology you have never heard of.... but which one?The worst thing is that the merging makes it near impossible to dig out a story you read many years ago. It was called... “… starless.... something....” but the title is no longer on you Read shelf.
I have noticed that when more than one short story review is merged into the same anthology some text is added between the review “merged reviews”. So automatic text adding is possible. When merging simply automatically add the original title, author, page count and read date.
Of course the simplest and best solution would be stop all the merging and deleting, and simply welcome short stories. Why not? What is wrong with reading and discussion short stories?
Jen wrote: "Also, if GRL MUST move a review to an anthology, can the reviewer be given the curtesy of an alert, so we can note on the review that the review is only for one story in the anthology and not the whole thing?"Um, no? Why not note upfront in the review which story it is about?
If reviewers go against the policy of not adding short stories that were not published separately (a policy that has been in place since forever), I don't see why GR should give them the courtesy of an alert.
J_BlueFlower wrote: "The worst thing is that the merging makes it near impossible to dig out a story you read many years ago. It was called... “… starless.... something....” but the title is no longer on you Read shelf."The new policy is that shorts will no longer be merged. If a story has been added against policy, then it will simply be marked Invalid. If you have previously reviewed it, that will stay.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "The new policy is that shorts will no longer be merged."Still happens as of last week. And the new policy is only for short stories in anthologies? Short stories published online but not the right way (whatever that is) is still deleted or NAB?
Corinne wrote: "just because there is a link to a story online doesn't mean it's published."Well, of course it has been published. It's that GR doesn't treat all shorts the same way. And, I believe that if a novel were hidden with only a link, it wouldn't be acceptable either.
Corinne wrote: "the policy went in place very recently. look up the definition of anthology... it covers collections. we are not treating them differently."Just nitpicking, I suppose, but shouldn't it be the other way around? I.e. an anthology is a type of collection, a collection is not always an anthology.
lethe wrote: "anthology is a type of collection, a collection is not always an anthology."I've always used it that an anthology is by multiple authors, a collection by only one author.
And to refer to Corinne's question about the umbrella word, yes, the manual might easily be corrected to read
anthology/collection
Corinne wrote: ""it has a direct link therefore it is a valid record."""Then I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that access to the contents of the link is by subscription.
Corinne wrote: "in my message 10, I did ask for the word collection to be added."Yes, I saw that, and I agree :) And if they only want one word, it is better to use collection.
Jen wrote: "Question: LeVar Burton has a Podcast where he reads short stories, would those be able to be included as short stories in GoodReads, regardless of whether they are published in print only in an ant..."To answer this particular question, the current policy would not include the LeVar Burton podcasts unless what he is reading is already considered a book by Goodreads standards. Many of them have not been published individually. This part of the policy has not changed.
How would a short which is published on a web site be referenced - there is no way to enter a URL anymore:- the URL field has been deleted
- adding an external URL in the description has been technically made impossible
Just asking.
Michael wrote: "How would a short which is published on a web site be referenced - there is no way to enter a URL anymore:- the URL field has been deleted
- adding an external URL in the description has been tech..."
I think you can still put a dot com in the publisher field.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I think you can still put a dot com in the publisher field."Correct. For how long (until being disabled)? Would this be the appropriate place?
Oh, and I forgot: the "edition" field would also be useless, not being shown on the new details page...
Michael wrote: "Correct. For how long (until being disabled)? Would this be the appropriate place?"For the stories Carol referenced above, yes, that website is definitely the publisher. I certainly can't speak for GR, but it has always allowed lulu.com and I would be surprised if they changed that.
Edit: I doubt that we would be able to reference the specific page at the website. Not an actual link, just the website as publisher.
lethe wrote: "If reviewers go against the policy of not adding short stories that were not published separately (a policy that has been in place since forever), I don't see why GR should give them the courtesy of an alert."How do I know what stories are valid?
It would be a great help if stories that are valid could have some sort of “validated” sign, so that you would know they will stay valid.
I cannot figure out the pattern of what is valid and what isn’t, and how you know
For instance:
Ender's Game Alive
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Is an Audible Audio book with 1,523 ratings 207 reviews
It is invalid
The Rescue Will Begin in Its Own Time by Franz Kafka
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
63 ratings 10 reviews is invalid.
The Mark on the Wall Virginia Woolf
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Is valid, even though all the editions contains
“was included in the short story collection Two Stories.”
“as part of the first collection of short stories “
The Cold Equations Tom Godwin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
203 ratings 33 reviews is invalid. It can be read and downloaded many places on the Internet.
Good-Looking Souvankham Thammavongsa
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/sho...
33 ratings 7 reviews
Apparently it is valid? How can I know?
Corinne wrote: "Ender's Game Alive - is there an equivalent book? audios have to be a reading of a book."Maybe this one: Ender’s Game 1,305,426 ratings, 47,445 reviews. How similar must they be?
There is a long list of Audible Originals.Wwhat makes them valid and not Ender's Game Alive?
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
Some are even marked "audible only"
I still would like to know: How do I know what stories are valid? Is there some way to see it? Or could you make a "validated" mark?
Corinne wrote: "I'd have to learn more about the listed publisher "Feedbooks" Looks like you can download the book from their site but do you have to register/subscribe?"That website has both public domain works and books for sale. The public domain works can be downloaded without an account. To buy a book you need an account. But that applies to nearly every online bookseller.
Corinne wrote: "They have to be the same, exactly. Audio has to be the reading of the book. This is policy and in the manual."This one is valid:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
This one is invalid:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
The first is the download version. The second is the MP3 CD version.
Why?
Mod
Mod
Thank you for the above feedback (especially Corinne, for the detailed description of suggested changes).
--
Current suggested updates to the Valid Book Records article:
Addition of a new bullet:
* Chapbooks (defined as a type of small-press, limited release book)
+
short stories published online (the format should be "ebook"). Shorts that belong are those that are:
* Published separately (i.e. not part of an online anthology / collection)
* Published online as specified short fiction (i.e. not a "bonus"), including standalones shorts published on the author's own website
* Complete, i.e. not in-progress works
Note: Valid short stories may only be added in their language of publication. I.e. If a valid short story only exists in Spanish, then an English version may not be added until it is published in a valid form.
----
Changes to the Non-Book Items article:
Move to its own bullet:
* Incomplete and in progress works (this is different from "forthcoming" works, which are considered completed but as yet unpublished"
+
Shorts:
* Short fiction only published in an anthology, collection or magazine
* Podcasts of shorts that have not been published separately
* Blog posts
* Deleted scenes
* Extras only published at the back of a specific book edition
* Stories only available via subscription to a newsletter, or via a website that requires registration
* Individual works that are only available for purchase as bundled with another, primary work
Shorts are retained in some cases. Shorts that belong are those that are:
* Published separately (i.e. not part of an online anthology / collection)
* Published online as specified short fiction (i.e. not a "bonus"), including standalones shorts published on the author's own website
* Complete, i.e. not in-progress works
Mod
Mod
* The Non-Book Items article
* The Valid Book Records article
I've made the changes discussed in this thread, and capitalised and alphabetised both lists.
Announced here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Mod
Mod
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Starting this thread to discuss refining the rules regarding shorts in the catalog, continuing from this thread.
My current suggestions for updates to the Valid Book Records article:
short stories published online (the format should be "ebook"). Shorts that belong are those that are:
* published separately
* published online as specified short fiction (i.e. not a "bonus"), including standalones shorts published on the author's own website
* complete flash fiction
Changes to the Non-Book Items article:
Shorts:
* A short story or short stories only published in an anthology or magazine
* Deleted scenes
* Extras only published at the back of a specific book edition
* Stories only available via subscription to a newsletter, or via a website that requires registration
* Incomplete and in progress works (this is different from "forthcoming" works, which are considered completed but as yet unpublished
* Individual works that are only available for purchase as bundled with another, primary work
Shorts are retained in some cases. Shorts that belong are those that are:
* Published separately
* Published online as a specified short story (i.e. not a "bonus")
* Complete flash fiction
As mentioned in the subject line, this will close to feedback on 7th April.