Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Questions (not edit requests)
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Amazon destroyed the author's database.
Tami wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "it looks like they cleared the testasin"I don't think so. I think they just hid it from search. "
So all those 27k "books" are still on the author profiles? It was an author profile upthread I looked at when I found one and then searched. This doesn't seem like the proper way to fix things. We're getting requests to removed Proofs, I wonder why not these? (Although the first result was on Marcel Proust's profile, and he probably won't be complaining.)
Tami wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "it looks like they cleared the testasin"I don't think so. I think they just hid it from search. I remember a few profiles where I saw Testasin editions and those are st..."
Now I see it doesn't display on her list of books. They aren't marked Invalid/Deleted, but they don't display.
Here is an example of the bot uncorrecting an edit that a librarian (myself) made a day earlier.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
(joint author credit)
Scott wrote: "Here is an example of the bot uncorrecting an edit that a librarian (myself) made a day earlier.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
(joint author credit)"
I suspect to these bots adding something to a record does not mean undoing a librarian's edits, even if the librarian had previously removed it.
I know I'm not going to touch any record that was added or edited by these _catalog and _com bots. Such a waste of librarians' time.
I corrected the join credit to individual, and that credit was removed and the joint put back in its place. So it removed the correct name I added and put an incorrect one in its place.
Scott wrote: "I corrected the join credit to individual, and that credit was removed and the joint put back in its place. So it removed the correct name I added and put an incorrect one in its place."Ah. Stupid bots 😠
Look at almost any well known public domain author and you'll find it is creating additional 1-space profiles (30-40 of them!), but also adding books on a 2-space profile. Some of the 2-space profiles are a different author and some are not.
And GR continues to let those bots run.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Now I see it doesn't display on her list of books. They aren't marked Invalid/Deleted, but they don't display."What do you mean? The book is still in the author's profile with the rest of editions https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...
Tami wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Now I see it doesn't display on her list of books. They aren't marked Invalid/Deleted, but they don't display."What do you mean? The book is still in the author's profi..."
I looked at her books on her author page and it isn’t there. At least not that I could see. Interesting that it still shows up on the other editions page of the work. (so yes, I didn’t see that it was combined - and why would that have been done?)
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I looked at her books on her author page and it isn’t there. At least not that I could see. Interesting that it still shows up on the other editions page of the work. (so yes, I didn’t see that it was combined - and why would that have been done?)"Yeah, I combined it last month. I can still see testasin editions in author profiles when they are combined or stray. It appears they just hid the word "testasin" from search which really fixes nothing.
"and why would that have been done?)" I don't know if you mean why it was combined or why Goodreads hid "testasin" from search. I combined it because I read on this group that testasin editions are valid and I've seen staff dealing with these records in such manner, can't mention or link logs so check the logs for this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5... or this one https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3... I just didn't feel like editing the title. About Goodreads, who knows why they do the things they do xD
I’m not sure those are supposed to have been imported and I’m not sure those are valid books. They should be reported to staff. This, according to a 2014 post from Rivka.EDIT: Anyway, logic says if they have hidden these from search, then they are less likely to be valid books. But, since they have hidden them from search since I posted the link, we can surmise they are reading this thread. Perhaps someone will pop in and clarify.
I was using this thread as a reference https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... and what I've seen staff do. Jaclyn posted on this thread that they are aware of the testasin issue. I wish they would post something official to clarify. I acted in good faith but If what I did was wrong I apologize.
Tami wrote: "Jaclyn posted on this thread that they are aware of the testasin issue. "That link is from 2014.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Where did you see Jaclyn post about this issue?
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Where did you see Jaclyn post about this issue?"Message 157 on this thread, number 4 on the list. Link to message 157: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Tami wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Where did you see Jaclyn post about this issue?"Message 157 on this thread, number 4 on the list. Link to message 157: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"
Ah. OK. So this is stuff we're not supposed to report. (And I didn't report that 27k TestASIN.) But that doesn't make them valid editions. I don't think they are.
I'm not reporting bad imports to staff. They've certainly got their hands full.
I see that the PROOFs have been talked about in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that as soon as we delete them, the bot is adding another PROOF for the same edition?A friend and I have helped an author who has only one book with one paperback edition on Goodreads. On 5/2 she invalidated the proof that was added for that edition, and 9 hours ago, a little over 24 hours later, Amazon added another one for the same paperback edition. It just has a different ASIN.
Nay wrote: "I see that the PROOFs have been talked about in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that as soon as we delete them, the bot is adding another PROOF for the same edition?A friend and I have help..."
I've seen numerous cases of there being more than one proof copy for a book, but I'd been operating under the assumption that different ASINs for a proof suggests that the author ordered a proof copy more than once. There could be another explanation, but I doubt the bots are trying to duplicate editions marked as invalid...yet.
Liralen wrote: "Nay wrote: "I see that the PROOFs have been talked about in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that as soon as we delete them, the bot is adding another PROOF for the same edition?A friend and..."
That was brought to my attention, and I've just asked the author about it.
My understanding was that we were to mark Proof editions as invalid like any other non-book with an ISBN or ASIN, so that it will not re-import. However some librarians and staff have been deleting them, so I have asked Support to let us know a definitive answer. I have not actively been searching, I have just come across them when 2 people are working at the same time, etc.
Emily wrote: "My understanding was that we were to mark Proof editions as invalid like any other non-book with an ISBN or ASIN, so that it will not re-import. However some librarians and staff have been deleting..."I posted a thread about this and found the responses very interesting:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Must have missed that! Thanks Elizabeth. I figured deleted would banish it forever, as before. Invalid must be so that people can retain reviews, etc. like NAB. I will probably still mark them invalid due to habit.
Emily wrote: "Must have missed that! Thanks Elizabeth. I figured deleted would banish it forever, as before. Invalid must be so that people can retain reviews, etc. like NAB. I will probably still mark them inva..."I laugh at myself over this. I'm doing it one way and sometimes the other. ;-)
Oh, but look at David's comment here! If you already understood that, then sorry for the repetition. But somehow this helps me understand.https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Nay wrote: "I see that the PROOFs have been talked about in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that as soon as we delete them, the bot is adding another PROOF for the same edition?A friend and I have help..."
that happens also without deletion so it probably was just coincidence it appeared just then.
had already two of the same format proofs for the same book on authors profile.
And it would not make sense to see a connection there tbh.
The 2nd proof seems to be existing in Amazons database (for whatever reason) and bot is importing because different ASIN.
As it does with all the other useless records now.
A connection with deletion on GR - how should that work with different ASIN involved? Would not make any sense (not even for GR-Amazon-bot-mess)
I'm thinking of leaving the librarians group so I won't be tempted to work on edits any more. Almost every edit I make is reversed by the next day, and you can't prove anything because entries are being removed from the logs, or not showing up at all. I think we should all ignore the proof requests in particular. Every day there are hundreds more and its literally a waste of our time to work on them.
Scott wrote: "I'm thinking of leaving the librarians group so I won't be tempted to work on edits any more. Almost every edit I make is reversed by the next day, and you can't prove anything because entries are ..."How about just following selected discussions like this one rather than looking at all the requests? Could that work for you?
Mod
I'm back with an update on the import. I'll comment on the issues listed in my previous post:
1. Import not honoring Librarian edits to secondary authors / contributors. This means that editing or removing a secondary author entry is overwritten by the Amazon import to reflect information on the Amazon page.
Going forward, the import can no longer add secondary authors / contributors to existing books on Goodreads. New books being added to the catalog can have additional authors added. If a Librarian edits a new book, the secondary author data can no longer be replaced by the import.
2. Incorrect items added to the catalog. This includes notebooks, VHS, proof copies and screen covers, amongst others.
Staff have been monitoring this Group and many non-book items have been removed, including blank journals and adult products. Some of this has been manual, by myself and others in the team, and we're also identifying patterns to prevent these from being added in the future. We do expect that more will be imported, but also that we will become better at cleaning these up as they're added.
3. Incorrect combines. Please feel welcome to continue to submit examples of these.
We're still investigating these. Please continue to report these examples.
4. Books being added with TestASIN or book format information in the title.
We've bulk removed a large quantity of these and continue to monitor.
5. Import repeatedly adding the same author (previously unedited by a Librarian) to a book record.
Fixed.
6. Books adding physical editions without an ISBN (ASIN only).
Again, we're looking for patterns to remove items that shouldn't be in the catalog. Unfortunately, many of these are valid and members are shelving them, so we can't use a blanket rule.
7. Import adding paperback ISBNs to Kindle editions.
Currently investigating.
Mod
1. For clarity - ISBNs/ASINs marked as "deleted" cannot be re-added to the system.
2. Regarding proofs - we're aware of these and are investigating patterns.
Thanks so much for all the work you put into maintaining the catalog, and for helping to raise awareness of the abovementioned issues. We are actively working to improve how the import works. In the interim, I'd like to encourage Librarians to work on areas of the catalog that they enjoy. I'll continue to update this thread as I learn more.
Thank you so much for the detailed update! I appreciate the work y'all have put in to investigate the issues.
Jaclyn wrote: "1. Import not honoring Librarian edits to secondary authors / contributors. ...New books being added to the catalog can have additional authors added. If a Librarian edits a new book, the secondary author data can no longer be replaced."
This is going to be a problem. We frequently have to correct secondary-author data. If librarians are no longer able to do this, we'll need to submit a Support ticket to have an employee do the correction. It will be yet another complication. And headache.
Thanks, Jacklyn. Any progress is much appreciated.
Dobby wrote: "Jaclyn wrote: "If a Librarian edits a new book, the secondary author data can no longer be replaced."This is going to be a problem. We frequently have to correct secondary-author data. If librarians are no longer able to do this, we'll need to submit a Support ticket to have an employee do the correction. "
I think this means that the import can't edit/replace the secondary author. At least I hope that's what Jaclyn meant.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Dobby wrote: "Jaclyn wrote: "If a Librarian edits a new book, the secondary author data can no longer be replaced."This is going to be a problem. We frequently have to correct secondary-author data. If librarians are no longer able to do this, we'll need to submit a Support ticket to have an employee do the correction. "
I think this means that the import can't edit/replace the secondary author. At least I hope that's what Jaclyn meant."
I thought the same as Elizabeth, that it meant once a librarian touches the record, the import bot can't edit/replace the secondary authors anymore.
Mod
Great that bot can't mess up with secondary authors, but what about the primary author name? can these be still changed by bot after a librarian touched them?
Mod
As someone who has worked in software development and testing, I don't understand why it's taking so long to fix the Proof issue. Something a developer (or developers) did opened the floodgates to let these through.I guess the problem could be that they don't know which change caused this issue.
In any case, thanks for the update, Jaclyn.
Greg wrote: "I guess the problem could be that they don't know which change caused this issue."My not so educated guess is that they wanted everything with an ASIN. And they're getting everything. So now they have to go give it different instructions, but as Proofs have an ASIN and they don't want to stop the entire process ...
Jaclyn wrote: "6. Books adding physical editions without an ISBN (ASIN only).Again, we're looking for patterns to remove items that shouldn't be in the catalog. Unfortunately, many of these are valid and members are shelving them, so we can't use a blanket rule."
Print books with ASINs from second-hand vendors are never valid. They are just single copies, not editions.
lethe wrote: "Print books with ASINs from second-hand vendors are never valid. They are just single copies, not editions. ."+1
lethe wrote: "Print books with ASINs from second-hand vendors are never valid. They are just single copies, not editions."As such, we do our best to match them to the correct record and merge them as duplicates.
Quite often, the imported description is the vendor's description of the condition of the book for sale.
Dobby wrote: "lethe wrote: "Print books with ASINs from second-hand vendors are never valid. They are just single copies, not editions."As such, we do our best to match them to the correct record and merge them as duplicates"
They have no adds or reviews. They are invalid records.
The whole 'second-hand books with only an ASIN' situation is a repeat of years ago. At that time it was quite soon decided it wasn't a good idea to flood the database with those. So I'm curious what made them decide it was a good idea this time.Every decision about which records are imported is a trade off between the amount of valid records that are not imported and the amount of invalid records that are imported.
And with 'physical editions with only an ASIN' it seems to be far more invalid editions than valid editions.
When it comes to comic book singles, this is even worst, there's now a TON of duplicates, with all the variant covers, I've been combining these, and in some of cases, when I can tell it's a comic set or a promo/preview/ebay, I've been switching them to invalid records, here's one example out of thousands,https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...
Am I doing this right?
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I don't think so. I think they just hid it from search. I remember a few profiles where I saw Testasin editions and those are st..."
interesting way to "fix" the problem - ehm.