Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Questions (not edit requests)
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Amazon destroyed the author's database.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "This is how the titles appear on Amazon. Illustrated, Large Prin..."But they are changing them, not just importing fresh. See here:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edits/...
Scott wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "This is how the titles appear on Amazon. Illustrated, Large Prin..."But they are changing them, not just importing fresh. See here:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edit..."
And I see it changed the title. I don't see that it was ever entered/changed by a librarian before the bot made its change. If I understand the instructions, the bot is not supposed to overwrite librarian edits.
Look, I'm not defending the bot. I don't think it ought to be making any entries to existing editions - except, perhaps, adding a cover to an edition that doesn't already have one. I have complained before (and have flagged edits) that I thought the programmers didn't write good language for the imports, that they didn't understand the catalog. But neither do I think we should be blaming the bot for everything that is wrong.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Those have been imported that way for years and years."Not in these numbers. And I also never saw the old bots adding it to an existing title.
lethe wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Those have been imported that way for years and years."Not in these numbers. And I also never saw the old bots adding it to an existing title."
I have been correcting titles for years. Probably at least half of my edits are for correcting titles (although half might be a slight exaggeration).
lethe wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Those have been imported that way for years and years."And I also never saw the old bots adding it to an existing title."
See my comment above that I think the bot shouldn't be making changes to existing editions except for those without covers.
What I hate most is that they change things that are correct into things that are not correct.
Bots do also change author names into rubbish.often from the default edition - like setting it from perfectly valid author names (also GR authors) to "na" - which would not be a valid one either.
That is especially frustrating as that new page now really cause problems when opening profiles and not all editions have the same name (did not understand yet why only several profiles are affected and other work still okay but well ...)
And yes, I'm aware that technically these records had no author corrections by a librarian before - but they did not need one was they were imported correctly.
Can't be the goal that librarians have to do something to every single field on a record to prevent the new bot from messing up?!
Wasn't that bad in the past.
examples: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
They all were combined before with correct author names - until bot came along very recently.
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "Bots do also change author names into rubbish."The bot instruction is not to touch fields with librarian edits. So it is following instructions. When it violates that instruction we are to flag/notify support.
Please see my previous comments that I think that isn't the instruction that is helpful. It shouldn't be changing any fields on existing editions except to add covers where one doesn't already exist.
Today came across a record that the newer Amazon bot had imported and directly combined - with editions of an author with different first and last name.Book had the same title (but different story).
Is that now a thing? And are the developers already aware of that Jaclyn or should I go through contact form?
(haven't separated it yet to leave it as example in case that's needed)
This is becoming an excellent case study in AI misalignment.
Scott wrote: "I'm sorry if I got out of line but it is really sad to see this happen to a site that I once thought was the greatest place on the internet. It has been a gradual decline since the founders sold out but the past year has been an unprecedented disaster with the atrocious new page design and now the Great Database Massacre. The responses Corinne has been receiving do not bode well. The whole thing is very upsetting."It was almost inevitable once the founders cashed out. This is how the world works now. If anyone is 'friends' with Otis could you please let him know what is happening. I doubt he will be able to do anything even if he cares. I'd just like him to know.
Mod
Corinne wrote: "Jaclyn it is reassuring to see your words. Perhaps I could forward the email to you or provide a screengrab through PM of the conversation I had with support."
Feel welcome to forward it to me and I'll take a lot. That'll help us to clear up knowledge gaps going forward.
And, how do you suggest we offer "bug" reports? Do you want it in the LG? In a thread like this? I was "trained" to contact staff through their link so that is what I did but it doesn't seem like it was heard with my method. A bot undid valid work I did, it did something wrong. I thought I should alert someone.
For issues caused by the Amazon bot, it is best to message through support. Can you add ATT: Jaclyn in the subject line? I've asked the team to ensure I'm notified of these. Please include specific examples.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I flag edits. I can't say how it works, because I never get a response."
Flagging edits is also great, especially with non-Amazon bot issues, or issues with other Librarians' edits.
Mod
No worries Scott, I do appreciate how much you care about Goodreads, and all you do around here. I was a huge fan and Librarian before I joined the team, so I can understand why these experiences can be frustrating!
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "Today came across a record that the newer Amazon bot had imported and directly combined - with editions of an author with different first and last name.
Book had the same title (but different story..."
That doesn't sound like a familiar issue. Please report it, thanks Lachgas.
another example of bot messing up author names - in this case the correct authors were added years ago by a librarian and bot recently seemed to have removed them and made one author name with both narratorshttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "another example of bot messing up author names - in this case the correct authors were added years ago by a librarian and bot recently seemed to have removed them and made one author name with both..."Plus added "(An FBI Thriller)" against policy to the title field.
lethe wrote: "Plus added "(An FBI Thriller)" against policy to the title field."I thought so too, but for once it seems to be the series name: https://www.goodreads.com/series/4097...
Liralen wrote: "lethe wrote: "Plus added "(An FBI Thriller)" against policy to the title field."I thought so too, but for once it seems to be the series name: https://www.goodreads.com/series/4097..."
Oh, dear. Couldn't they have come up with something a little more discerning?
Jaclyn wrote: "That doesn't sound like a familiar issue. Please report it, thanks Lachgas."sent it
Mod
sent it"
Got it! Thanks. 😊
Mod
Jaclyn wrote: "Regarding the import setting valid books to deleted or invalid, please let us know if you see any changes like this made after 4/6."I.e. the 6th of April :)
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "another example of bot messing up author names - in this case the correct authors were added years ago by a librarian and bot recently seemed to have removed them and made one author name with both..."Fixed the initials on that yesterday (bot added spaces) - well, bot changed it today again to initials with spaces https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
So ... I'm now in an edit war with a bot? sounds like fun... /sarc
edit: actually ... from the log it looks like bot might have deleted the correct initial without it being in the log and then re-adding J. T. - so it technically did not change it but added, but still wrong behaviour.
Had seen logs that looked like there's no deletion from bots shown yesterday and wondered (because it would show if I delete an author name).
Jaclyn wrote: "For issues caused by the Amazon bot, it is best to message through support. Can you add ATT: Jaclyn in the subject line? I've asked the team to ensure I'm notified of these. Please include specific examples."OK! I've sent 3 issues already this morning from one set of 18 editions.
Bot activity not being logged or being hidden in logs is not ok. There's not much point having a log if it is missing information.
The bots think they can hide from us but they are wrong! We have a certain set of special skills and we will find them!
I had to add two new antennae to my aluminum foil hat. So far, it's working as long as one is pointed north and the other southeast, angled at 37.6° and 84°, respectively.
Newest fun find: 3000 VHS tapes imported by our favorite bot. Search "VHS" and they start around page 9 of the search results.Think they'll have this at my library? ;D
Nude Personal Training VHS
(reported to Help/ATTN Jaclyn)
I found some LPs being imported too, I somehow lost the link.
I read through most of these comments and didn't see this one listed but if it was already reported, sorry for the duplication.I have an author who changed her cover & title of a published book. The Amazon bot changed the title on the existing edition on Goodreads with the old cover. There are a few just like this that now the cover & title do not match.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edits/...
Also the bot change the author names to match Amazon by removing the periods after initials that a librarian had fixed back in 2021. (Example: L.A. Kirk was changed to LA Kirk)
I am going to change these back and create new cover editions but wanted to report it here and will send this to support. Thanks
They need to stop the bot. The old one was fine. Whatever they’ve done recently is making a mockery of this wonderful database and the librarians who work hard to make it wonderful.
Following as I'm seeing everything I've been seeing listed here, but I might have other things to add.I'm in a daily fight with the bots. On 4/21, I moved the name of a non-fiction editor off the profile of an author with the same name by adding the extra space. She contacted me the next morning and said it was back, so I moved it again. Then it was back the next morning, so I moved it a third time. The bot didn't move it back within 24 hours, so I thought it finally "took." Now I see that it did indeed move it back four days later. I haven't moved it back yet.
I did report this to Support last week.
linking to edit pages is not liked well in the group here nay - and you might want to send it to Jaclyn's attention if you haven't yet.She's collecting that kind of stuff (especially if it happend after the 6th as there were some corrections made to the bot then)
saw a VHS today with ASIN only .. great...And one where format was hardcover or paperback but everything screamed VHS like the title.
The bot is still edit warring librarians, as of 1 hour ago. See the edit log for this edition:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Bot adds editor, librarian removes it, bots adds it back.
Bug report sent ATTN Jaclyn.
Mod
Thanks to everyone who has been helping identify issues with the recent Amazon import. I'm adding a log of the most impactful known issues here, so you can know what is unnecessary to report on further. I'll provide updates on the below as we learn more:
1. Import not honoring Librarian edits to secondary authors / contributors. This means that editing or removing a secondary author entry is overwritten by the Amazon import to reflect information on the Amazon page.
2. Incorrect items added to the catalog. This includes notebooks, VHS, proof copies and screen covers, amongst others.
3. Incorrect combines. Please feel welcome to continue to submit examples of these.
4. Books being added with TestASIN or book format information in the title.
5. Import repeatedly adding the same author (previously unedited by a Librarian) to a book record.
6. Books adding physical editions without an ISBN (ASIN only).
7. Import adding paperback ISBNs to Kindle editions.
I know added reports have come in for other items and I'll add them to this post and update the above as I know more.
Thanks, Jaclyn. I don't see proof copies on this list—is that something we should be flagging for Support?
Mod
Added to #2. Thanks!
Does staff know about this so that we aren't referred to Amazon support?
Jaclyn, should we keep reporting the bot adding physical editions with just an ASIN? And is it alright to mark them as invalid when we find them?See: Thread 1 | Thread 2
Thanks for the update!
Mod
I've shared the above information with them.
gem wrote: "Jaclyn, should we keep reporting the bot adding physical editions with just an ASIN? And is it alright to mark them as invalid when we find them?"
If the editions are duplicates of others (in terms of year, publisher, cover, etc.) and do not have any ratings or reviews you can mark them as invalid. The team is aware of this one and I've added it to the above list. Thank you gem!
Jaclyn wrote: "If the editions are duplicates of others (in terms of year, publisher, cover, etc.) and do not have any ratings or reviews you can mark them as invalid. "I appreciate this, BUT. The ones I'm seeing are for titles that have thousands of editions. Sometimes tens of thousands. It isn't practical to be looking at each and every one of them to determine if it is or is not a keeper. None of these should be imported. If a member needs a 1956 edition added, we can do that.
However, the odds are pretty darned good that all of these editons already exist in the system.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Jaclyn wrote: "If the editions are duplicates of others (in terms of year, publisher, cover, etc.) and do not have any ratings or reviews you can mark them as invalid. "I appreciate this, BUT. Th..."
additionally if a member wants a 1956 edition added that is (not likely but possible) not yet in the system I do not consider it that likely they would come around with the ASIN in hand (because their book does not have that on them)
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I appreciate this, BUT. The ones I'm seeing are for titles that have thousands of editions. Sometimes tens of thousands. It isn't practical to be looking at each and every one of them to determine if it is or is not a keeper. None of these should be imported."Jaclyn, for one example of this problem, see the 40 Wizard of Oz books. The first one, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, has 8,371 editions (when I checked just now).
Just looking at the 900+ HB editions, I see many records with an ASIN only. In just 150 editions, there are 75 ASIN-only records. (See the last 5 pages, sorted by date.)
Librarians can't possibly research and fix all the ASIN-only OZ editions, let alone the vast numbers of other records that the bots have created -- and continue to create.
Thanks for clarifying that we should mark paperbacks with asin duplicates invalid. I find many.
Tami wrote: "Thanks for clarifying that we should mark paperbacks with asin duplicates invalid. I find many."Only if they are duplicates. Be sure to research first!
Mesembryanthemum wrote: "Librarians can't possibly research and fix all the ASIN-only OZ editions, let alone the vast numbers of other records that the bots have created -- and continue to create.."Exactly. I have been working with Dostoevsky titles, but also Joseph Conrad and Charles Dickens and many others. The ASIN only physical editions are a nightmare. I'm going to just leave them. GR is worried about superfluous Kickstarter editions! What about all of these superfluous public domain titles by prolific authors?
Paperbacks and hardcovers. The ASINs on those are the third-party seller Amazon identification numbers. They are strictly for Amazon sales tracking purposes.
Dobby wrote: "Paperbacks and hardcovers. The ASINs on those are the third-party seller Amazon identification numbers. They are strictly for Amazon sales tracking purposes."That's what we've been saying, but Goodreads isn't paying attention.
These are book records that are actually food. I sent a report of this already to support as I have encountered before but I thought to post here too:On Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09...
On Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09...
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This is how the titles appear on Amazon. Illustrated, Large Print, Annotated, by such and such an author, a great historical fiction novel - all of those are how title listings are done at Amazon. Those have been imported that way for years and years.