On the Shoulders of Giants by Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[Brina]

Ashley and Brina are reading On the Shoulders of Giants by Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Any one is welcome to join in and to discuss Kareem’s other books here.
Why are we reading, in the non baseball discussion thread, Lance mentioned that not taking anything away from LeBron James breaking Kareem’s NBA scoring record, but Kareem has been accomplished outside of basketball and has authored many books. This one about the Harlem Renaissance called my attention and I found a reading buddy. Hopefully this will keep our sports and history reading sustained until opening day when more baseball books are released.

[Lance]

While I read it several years ago, if any of my libraries (I use several through the Libby app) have it, I’ll join in.

[James]

I have been a fan of Kareem for several decades. Just by chance I bought and read his autobiography GIANT STEPS back in 1983. It was one of the first sports biographies that I had read and was very insightful to the various obstacles he faced during his life up to that point.

I came away from reading the book with a great appreciation for Jabbar as both an athlete and as a person. And while he is a very accomplished person away from the basketball court, I don't believe that he gets enough consideration as being the GOAT in his chosen sport.

[Brina]

James, as a proud Chicagoan I’m team Jordan all the way, but after reading this and learning about Kareem’s background, I agree he should be on the Mount Rushmore of hoops. Someone Magic gets more credit for Showtime but Kareem was there long before Magic. Not that this is what this book is about, but I’ll probably go back and read the other memoirs now.

[James]

Brina, I can certainly see a valid argument for Michael Jordan being the GOAT. As you mentioned, if there was a Mount Rushmore of hoops, he would certainly be on it.

I think that the reason that Kareem is underrated nowadays is because the first full ten years of his career (1970-1979), when he tore apart the NBA, the sport was not televised nationally.

No one saw just how dominant he was during his first decade. Even in the early 80's the NBA was only broadcast on tape delay. And since there isn't much of those early performances on film, modern fans (who only believe what they see on video) can't connect the dots as to how good Kareem was in his prime.

[Brina]

I would like to see video but I’ll connect the dots. Besides how do you compare a center with a shooting guard from different eras? That’s why sports do a top 5 because when you start comparing different eras, especially in basketball when the rules change all the time, it gets tricky. But…this book wasn’t really about basketball and I’m glad. I like reading about athletes lives outside of sports and what they’ll have chosen to make of themselves.

[Lance]

I get that a lot when I talk about two other greats in their era, both of whom played before Jabbar. Bill Russel is one - given all that he accomplished on and off the court and that his #6 is retired throughout the league, I can’t believe some don’t consider him all that great because he a) didn’t score as much as Jordan, James, etc and b) the players weren’t as great athletes as today’s players are. Then when I mention the other player I think of for his era, it gets worse- George Mikan. Sure, he wouldn’t be much in today’s game, but in his time, he changed the game completely and for that he deserves credit. Plus, another thought - he was the first commissioner of the ABA, the professional league that popularized the three point shot. Without the ABA and Mikan’s leadership, you might not have that part of today’s game. But no, these so call basketball historians just want to completely ignore Mikan’s and Russell’s contributions simply because they played in previous eras.

[C. John]

Going to comment on the lack of video of many great players. Part of the reason is that up until the eighties is was common practice to wipe the tapes of sporting events after they had been aired. The thinking at that time was that no one was going to be interested in watching an old [fill in the blank] game. Understandable I suppose, but really annoying.

[Brina]

Why wouldn’t anyone be interested? I’d watch an old season of sports all the time. I’m sure there are old school Kareem highlights on YouTube somewhere so I’ll have to search for them.

[James]

I agree that comparing players from different NBA/ABA eras can be a challenge given how the game has evolved. That is why the arguments over who is the GOAT can get so heated.

Part of the reason that little video exists of Kareem's early years is that NBA games simply weren't televised. It took David Stern to negotiate a decent TV contract for the NBA but that didn't happen until the early 80s. Not only were Kareem's early games lost to history but there is no extensive film footage of Wilt, or Oscar, or Elgin, or any of the other greats of the early NBA.

Also the use of "game film" to analyze players and teams had not caught on yet. And technology is also an issue. There were no camcorders in the 70s to allow for teams to easily capture video of themselves or their opponents. It wasn't until the Magic vs Bird era of the NBA came around that fans were able to see a full NBA game in primetime.

[C. John]

Brina wrote: "Why wouldn’t anyone be interested? I’d watch an old season of sports all the time. I’m sure there are old school Kareem highlights on YouTube somewhere so I’ll have to search for them."

The general consensus back then was that the average person was not going to be interested in watching a game where they already knew what the outcome was going to be. Also remember that this was before the advent of VCR's (and their successors) and cable television stations which specialized in showing those old games.

[Ashley Marie]

I didn't get started as early as I wanted to today -- I'm covering shipping at work through tomorrow, and that + working alongside others steals my concentration. I'm about an hour into the audiobook and I already love this!

[Brina]

And I had the day off and went to the library twice. Once myself and once with the teens. What I really need is a good baseball book but I’ve read pretty much all the library has, I’ve suggested most of them, and am in need of suggestions.

[Doubledf99.99]

A few of my favorite baseball books: 1. The Pitch that Killed, by Mike Sowell. 2. Honus Wagner: A Biography by DeValeria. 3. The Shortstop by Zane Grey. On basketball: 1. Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich by Mark Kriegel. 2. The Rivalry: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and the Golden Age of Basketball by John Taylor.

[Brina]

All new to me. Thank you very much.

[James]

I have tapped out my library pretty well when it comes to baseball books. Here are some of the books that made my Top 20 List:

SANDY KOUFAX: A Lefty's Legacy by Jane Leavy
CLEMENTE by David Maraniss
THE LAST HERO: A Biography of Henry Aaron by Howard Bryant
YOU'RE MISSING A GREAT GAME by Whitey Herzog
OCTOBER 1964 by David Halberstam
MEN AT WORK: The Craft of Baseball by George Will
DYNASTIC, BOMBASTIC, FANTASTIC by Jason Turbow
THE YANKEE YEARS by Joe Torre & Tom Verducci
SHUT OUT by Howard Bryant
HEART OF THE ORDER by Thomas Boswell
NINE INNINGS by Daniel Okrent
LORDS OF THE REALM by John Helyar
ONE SHOT AT FOREVER by Chris Ballard

[Brina]

You have good taste, James. I’ve read half of these so I’ll make a point to get some read this year. The ones at the library are not calling my attention. Granted I’ve been avoiding October 64 because of the winning team but it’s still Halberstam writing it. I think I’ll start with The Last Hero as it’s been on my radar for awhile.

[Daniel]

Back on the Kareem discussion, personality also played a pivotal role in how he was perceived. He did not suffer fools and as such he could come across as aloof or standoffish. He also did not pander and as was pointed out had many outside interests. Kareem could never be put in a box and though a great basketball player he was more than just a brand. Unrelatedly, his appearance in "Airplane" demonstrates his comedic chops as well.

[Brina]

I’d love to see him actually be a history teacher. How many nba greats could do that? I’d see where he’d be labeled as aloof and standoffish- too intellectual for nba circles and prefers history and jazz. Any player or person who is introverted or has interests outside of the main group is often considered cold, unlikely to be a friend, etc. I’d rather have Kareem on my team than these one and done guys who are only in school out of necessity of the rules.

[Lance]

Daniel is right - Kareem has always sounded standoffish, but part of that was that he was clearly more articulate and intelligent than many others including those interviewing him.

None of my libraries carry this book and since I already read it, I am not going to buy it. But another one of his books I recommend is “Coach and Me” - about his time at UCLA and with John Wooden - another great figure in the basketball world.

[Ashley Marie]

None of my libraries carry this book and since I already read it, I am not going to buy it. But another one of his books I recommend is “Coach and Me” - about his time at UCLA and with John Wooden - another great figure in the basketball world."

Thanks for the rec, Lance! I'll keep an eye out for this one.

[James]

Having read his autobiography and watched some of his interviews online (his talk with Dan Patrick is especially good) Kareem has admitted that his relationship with the press was something that he mismanaged.

At UCLA John Wooden shielded his players from the press, believing the media to be a nuisance and an unwanted distraction. This despite the fact that UCLA was the dominant college team during Kareem's tenure there and he was the most dominant player on the court.

Kareem carried Wooden's view of the press into the NBA but it did not serve him well. He got a lot of negative press due to the friction he created in dealing with reporters and it took a long time for him to repair the damage. I am fairly certain that had Kareem courted the press more effectively early in his career that he would have been lauded as the GOAT long before Jordan ever laced up his shoes.

[James]

And in the spirit of good basketball books to sample at your local libraries and bookstores, here are some of my favorites:

LOOSE BALLS: The Short, Wild Life of the ABA by Terry Pluto
TALL TALES: The Glory Years of the NBA by Terry Pluto
THE BREAKS OF THE GAME by David Halberstam
THE RIVALRY by John Taylor
DREAM TEAM by Jack McCallum
UNFINISHED BUSINESS by Jack McCallum
SECOND WIND: Memoirs of an Opinionated Man by Bill Russell
SHOWTIME by Jeff Pearlman
A SEASON ON THE BRINK by John Feinstein
GIANT STEPS by Kareem Abdul Jabbar
WHEN THE GAME WAS OURS by Jackie MacMullan

As always YMMV so take the list with a grain of salt...

[Daniel]

"Heaven is a Playground" by Rick Telander is another excellent basketball book. It showcases the streetball culture of Brooklyn in 1974 and features Albert King, the brother of Bernard King who Telander befriends and "coaches".

[Brina]

Oh I like Telander. I remember when he wrote for the Chicago Sun Times. I think you guys have planned my sports reading for the rest of the year.

[Lance]

If you never read Pat Summit’s memoir, “Sum It Up”, you should - especially Brina. She wrote it in 2013, just after being diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. Wrote while she still could - one of the best coaches ever, man or woman

[Brina]

Read it while crying. I’m not rereading that Alzheimer’s hits too close to home.

[C. John]

If anyone noticed my two previous posts they are no on Non-Baseball Talk, which is where they are supposed to be.

[H (no longer expecting notifications) Balikov]

Brina wrote: "I would like to see video but I’ll connect the dots. Besides how do you compare a center with a shooting guard from different eras? That’s why sports do a top 5 because when you start comparing dif..."

Well put, Brina

[James]

I need to add a book recommendation to my earlier list... A few weeks ago I read David Halberstam's PLAYING FOR KEEPS.

While the focus is on Michael Jordan’s life and his dominance on court from his UNC college days to his second retirement in 1999, the author also does a superb job of capturing the changes to pro basketball that occurred in the 80s and 90s. As the NBA went from being a second tier sport to a financial juggernaut, it transformed Jordan into a millionaire marketing icon with the drive and athleticism to match.

But in the process the dynamics between the owners, general managers, coaches, players, agents, and the media were altered forever. The NBA had more flash, sizzle, and spectacle, but a great deal less humanity, which many old school fans like myself greatly miss.